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IDF: Ground Operation In Gaza Is Expanding. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 27, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:33:20]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: We're back in Tel Aviv. The Israel Defense Forces have announced that ground operations in Gaza are expanding. We're not exactly sure what that means but we have seen intensification of airstrikes in Gaza.

Let's go back to Nic Robertson, who is in Sderot, which is closer to Gaza than we are right now.

Nic, right now, we're trying to ascertain, based on what the IDF is saying, how big this expansion is, whether this is the beginning of phase two in terms of a sizable ground operation, a sizable incursion into Gaza, or if this is a somewhat larger infiltration of Israeli troops into Gaza as we've seen over the last few nights?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. I think the key will come to understanding that tomorrow morning, when the IDF give clarify, if they do.

But they have, over the past few days, and each of the past few days, they've spoken about how all their troops went into Gaza in the limited incursions with specific objectives, came out.

Tomorrow morning, if they say they've left troops behind, then that will be indicative of a much larger scale operation getting under way.

Just heard a fighter jet fly through the sky there. No explosions heard. So apparently, no missile dropped from that jet.

But still hearing detonations. Not as many as before and more distant from artillery fire going into Gaza.

But I think, for us here, the two things that have stood out and marked a difference this evening have been the sustained tank fire.

[13:35:02]

And we've seen tank fire over my shoulder a couple of nights ago, on the horizon. The distinction, for us tonight, was the tank fire was outgoing from very close to here from a number of tanks.

They've have gone silent. Maybe because they've rolled forward in an incursion? We just don't know at this time. But the smoke that filled the sky earlier was another thing we hadn't

seen before. And it really felt and looked like, because it hung in the sky for 20, 30 minutes maybe, that it was a type of smoke that the military used to maneuver forces so they can't be seen by the enemy.

Again, we don't have the details from the battlefield. The IDF are not confirming or giving detail on what it is we're observing.

I'm hearing a drone up there. There was another artillery round that was fired in.

I think we're going to see this continue through the night, more artillery fired there into Gaza. I think we're going to this through the night, ebb and flow, probably.

But the key thing I think, at this moment, are not just here for the citizens of Gaza and not just here from the citizens of Israel, but all around region.

Groups like Hezbollah will be watching so closely and so carefully about whether or not this is the big ground incursion. Because for them, that could be a trigger for further action for them.

So far, they haven't escalated, but they've indicated that if there is a full ground incursion, they may escalate.

And Israel is being careful about how it arrives at a full ground incursion to just try to head off Hezbollah's response.

There are a lot of things we don't have facts on at the moment. We can only analyze -- Jake, Anderson?

TAPPER: And, Anderson, I just want to make sure that you and Nic get a chance to weigh in on something that Israel did earlier today.

The IDF, which I thought was potentially significant, they announced there was a specific hospital in Gaza that they were saying -- they were accusing of being command and control center of Hamas. I forget the name of the hospital -- (INAUDIBLE).

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I think I know what it is --

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TAPPER: But they were saying specifically that a hospital in Gaza, I believe a functioning hospital in Gaza, was -- they were accusing it. Again, I can't --

COOPER: We should point out, and this is something that they have also said in the past, which is that, often, according to the IDF, Hamas has set up command and control functions underneath hospitals, in hospitals and elsewhere.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: They've long accused -- yes, they have long said that Hamas embeds itself within the populace.

COOPER: Yes. The last time I was in Gaza, which I don't remember what year it was, but it was during a lesser conflict, you know, the building I was in, you could see Hamas rockets being launched from neighboring buildings.

TAPPER: Yes.

COOPER: It's not as if anybody in Gaza is aware where rockets are being launched from because they are being launched from civilian neighborhoods.

TAPPER: Yes.

COOPER: And those sites move around.

TAPPER: Nic, I don't know if you heard that reporting, I'm sure you did, but that did seem significant in terms of the fact that they were going to start more directly targeting sites like that.

ROBERTSON: Yes. If memory serves me, I think it was the Al Shifa Hospital. And it's certainly one of the principal hospitals in Gaza City.

I believe it's correct, that CNN has actually interviewed some of the senior staff members, possibly the director, possibly other doctors, interviewed them in the hospital there about the deteriorating conditions in the hospital.

The IDF has warned the doctors, warned the hospital, warned the hospitals, that they need to empty and clear out. It's been very clear that the IDF suspects nefarious activity.

And they've laid that out in detail and they've released these graphic images that show precisely where they think the underground bunkers are underneath that hospital.

As several locations were pointed out on their detailed map of the hospital and it's sort of environs. And specifically where they thought the underground bunkers are.

It's not something we're able to clarify. It's something that is denied from the Palestinian side.

But what we have been able to witness is some of the impacts of munitions on Gaza. And you can see, in some places, where there are multiple exits of plumes of smoke that come out of the ground some distance from the original impact.

Which creates the impression that a tunnel complex was hit and the explosive and the smoke that comes out from it has come out at other points on the tunnel.

[13:39:56]

And I would just add to what Anderson has said there about the rockets being fired out, as witnessed in Gaza. My only experiences in Gaza, too, you can see where tunnels are being dug at the edge of civilian housing. Some are very well hidden.

Clearly, we don't ever get to know where they are. But you can see where they are because there are huge mounds of dirt.

I think the IDF has a certain amount of knowledge of where some of the tunnels are. But other areas are shrouded from their view.

And the hospital is clearly an area they're pointing to that they believe they have accurate intelligence about. It's not something, at this point, that we can have specific knowledge of, at least I don't feel I do at this moment.

TAPPER: Yes. I will point out it's not something that doctors working in a hospital would talk about either --

COOPER: Right.

TAPPER: -- when interviewed on camera.

COOPER: Right.

TAPPER: And no doctor in a hospital in Gaza, who is very well aware of where Hamas is in their neighborhood, they're very well aware if Hamas or Islamic Jihad is firing rockets over their hospital, they are not going to talk about that --

COOPER: No.

TAPPER: -- on camera for -- I assume, because they are concerned about their own safety from Hamas.

We have seen Hamas drag people through the streets on the back of motorcycles, their bodies through the streets. I witnessed that with my own eyes. And that is something which can happen to anybody.

So, Nic, we'll continue to check back in with you.

We'll take a short break. And our coverage continues.

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[13:45:52]

TAPPER: Welcome back. We're live in Tel Aviv.

Right now the IDF has announced that ground operations in Gaza are expanding. Of course, that is a big concern for those who have loved ones who were taken hostage, who were kidnapped by Hamas roughly three weeks ago on October 7th.

Alex Marquardt and Jeremy Diamond both have new reporting on the hostage negotiations.

I believe, Jeremy Diamond and Alex Marquardt, the number is 224. Alex, what can you tell us about the state of negotiations, especially

given the fact that airstrikes by the IDF are intensifying in Gaza and the ground operations are expanding, according to the IDF.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake and Anderson, it's hard to imagine that what we're seeing now doesn't hugely complicate the prospect of getting at least some of those 200 hostages out.

That was what was being aimed for by the negotiators that were led by Qatar, that at least in the next hostage release, which we had thought might come in the coming hours or days, could have dozens or as many perhaps as 100.

But seeing what we are now, obviously, that throws everything into flux. We have been cautioned by U.S. officials repeatedly throughout the day that things are extremely fluid. It's very touch and go.

You did hear in the press conference given by Admiral Hagari, he was asked about the reported deal in the works and he spoke about it rather dismissively. He said, "I advise you not to listen to rumors."

And then he went on to talk about how Hamas is a terrorist organization and people should not give into the psychological terror of Hamas.

But I can tell you, in speaking with a number of U.S. officials in the past few moments, they do not believe that talks have collapsed. They believe the talks are ongoing. How close they are to any success, that remains unclear.

One U.S. official told me there's no scenario until these hostages are freed that we would stop pursuing talks. Another official calling this a tug and pull.

And so, you know, there was a difference of opinion between the U.S. and Israel about what was more effective to get these hostages out.

The Israelis were saying it was the military pressure that had succeeded in pressuring Hamas to get the four hostages we've seen out so far.

Whereas, the U.S. had been pushing for a pause -- sorry, pushing for a delay, as well as for a humanitarian pause so that there could be more time to get the hostages out.

Obviously, this is really going to complicate things, I think -- Jake Anderson?

COOPER: Jeremy Diamond, one of the other complications we've been hearing from former Israeli officials and hostage negotiators is that Hamas may not have their hands on all of the hostages.

That Islamic Jihad, early on in the conflict, claimed that they had as many as 30 hostages. There may be even individuals or families or sort of mafia groups that may have taken people as well. JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. In fact, it

appears even Hamas doesn't have an accurate count of how many hostages are being held by some of these other groups, perhaps in the Gaza Strip.

As Alex was saying, all of the efforts to try to free these hostages certainly now complicated by what Israel is now describing as expanding its ground operations inside the Gaza Strip.

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been facing a convergence of political factors as he prepares to make the decision how and when and how extensive this ground operation inside of Gaza would be.

On the one hand, you have the families of these hostages demanding, naturally, understandably, that releasing those hostages, getting their family members back, be made the number-one priority of the Israeli government.

On the other hand, we are also clearly dealing with a population in Israel that has been so shocked by these terrorist attacks, carried out by Hamas nearly three weeks ago, that they want to ensure that they are the last terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas.

[13:50:06]

And they want Hamas to be decimated and taken out of power, as the Israeli prime minister has vowed to do inside of Gaza.

We know that as Israel tries to destroy some of these tunnels inside of Gaza --and we are now getting some sirens here so I think we're going to try to move inside for cover.

But we know as all of this is happening, Anderson, those tunnels represent a risk for those hostages taking out those tunnels as they remain there.

TAPPER: Go inside, Jeremy. Jeremy, go inside.

Alex Marquardt -- we're going to take a quick break as Jeremy heads inside.

Let's squeeze in a quick break and we'll be right back.

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TAPPER: You want to keep going?

OK, we're going to keep going.

Yes, we're --

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TAPPER: We're going to continue on.

Alex Marquardt, what you just saw were -- you heard the sirens, likely interceptors from the Iron Dome firing up there.

We'll check in with Jeremy Diamond as soon as he's back on camera as well.

Alex, in terms of the hostages, Israel had actually dropped leaflets several days ago asking residents in Gaza for any information, that if they had witnessed anything with hostages, that there could be rewards for them if they contacted Israeli authorities.

Which gives just a sense of the scope, the importance Israel is putting on trying to get the hostages back.

But if they are being kept in these underground tunnels, as one of the hostages who has come out said that she did -- at some point, was in a tunnel, that complicates Israel's ability to really destroy these tunnels.

MARQUARDT: It certainly does. And it would essentially hold them back from pummeling that Hamas infrastructure as hard as they would like.

No doubt, the efforts to get these hostages back has been hugely complicated by the fact that they are not all in one place. As we've said, they are in bunkers in tunnels, they're being held by different groups.

And so I think that's part of the reason you're seeing that call to Gazans by the IDF to give them as much information as possible.

There was a huge concern by the U.S., by the administration, that, if and when this ground incursion were launched, that essentially it would torpedo any efforts to get these hostages out.

That's why there has been a concentrated effort, very politely in public, to pressure the Israeli government.

The administration saying repeatedly, you know, it's up to the Israelis to decide when they go in and when they launch this incursion. But we heard, you know, pretty clearly from Secretary of State Antony Blinken that what would be needed right now are humanitarian pauses.

We never heard any American officials calling for a ceasefire because that's something that Israelis have completely ruled out.

But you have heard the Americans and Europeans calling for a pause in order to help get those hostages out and in order to help get aid in.

So as we were discussing what a deal could look like for the release of what we had thought might be a bigger group of hostages, in terms of what Hamas might have gotten.

What we believed was being discussed was aid going into Gaza, fuel going into Gaza, a temporary ceasefire that would allow the movement of these hostages to get out of the Gaza Strip, perhaps the injured moving to -- out of Gaza into Egypt to get treatment. But, of course, we have not seen that deal come to fruition. It looked

like it was on a pretty good trajectory. There was a lot of cautioning going on but there was a lot of positivity.

One official, who was involved in the conversations, even going so far to say there was a breakthrough.

I don't think there's any official right now, to say the least, who thinks that this -- that a hostage release would be imminent, as we see what's happening in the Gaza Strip tonight -- guys?

TAPPER: Alex, remind us, of the 224 hostages, 224 individuals, some of them children, that Hamas kidnapped on October 7th, how many of them are Americans?

MARQUARDT: Around a handful is what the administration is saying. There are still some 10 Americans who have been unaccounted for. But according to the White House's John Kirby, they believe a handful of the 220-plus are American.

The biggest number of foreigners are actually Thai citizens, people from Thailand. There are a lot of workers from Thailand who go to Israel. So there are civilians, both Israeli and foreign.

But, guys, also important to note, there are a number -- and we don't have the specifics -- but there are a number of Israeli soldiers in there.

[13:55:02]

And so there was a thinking that perhaps Hamas might try to get rid of all the civilians but hold onto the Israeli soldiers for a potential trade for Palestinian prisoners down the line.

TAPPER: Right.

The other thing to remember, there is something like 500 to 600, Palestinian-Americans in Gaza. And according to both the Americans and the Israelis, while they're not trapped in tunnels with Hamas, Hamas won't let them leave.

So they are, in a different sense, also prisoners of Hamas, although they are in southern Gaza, but they are also, in a different sense, prisoners of Hamas.

COOPER: We're going to take a --

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COOPER: -- short break and our coverage continues -- oh, go ahead, Alex.

MARQUARDT: Sorry. I was going to say, quickly, just because they're in southern Gaza certainly doesn't mean they're safe. We saw a bombing in Hanunis (ph), which is in the southern --

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MARQUARDT: -- overnight.

And that complication that you're talking about, Jake, is because you have interests of Hamas, who have not done anything to open up the gates to head into Egypt, you have the Israeli bombing that continues, which is threatening the movement of people around there.

You have seen the Egyptians, who sources tell us, haven't necessarily done enough to help get those hundreds of foreign citizens out of Gaza.

There's not one reason, in particular, they can't leave, but rather, the State Department is telling us, and multiple sources are telling us, that this is an extraordinarily complicated puzzle.

The administration is expressing some hope that Americans can get out in the coming days. But it has been more than two weeks with no answers for those hundreds of American citizens.

COOPER: Alex Marquardt, Jeremy Diamond, we'll check in with you shortly.

We'll be right back.

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