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IDF: Ground Operation In Gaza Is Expanding. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 27, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: We heard from the IDF spokesman who was specific and described the holding and negotiation of hostages as psychological terror and cynical use of Israeli civilians -- I assume he means others as well, the foreign nationals -- by Hamas.

I don't think anybody will disagree with that line. Hostage taking is hostage taking. And it is -- I'm sure, many of our viewers would agree -- is psychological terror and a cynical use of Israeli citizens by Hamas.

The fact is, this is a war and that is what's going on.

We await to see whether we can get more information at this point.

But certainly, you know, the expanded operations as having been described by the IDF as now ongoing, perhaps, obviously, changing the equation somewhat in what was very hopeful signs for the release of some of these hostages.

Back to you guys.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And, Becky, we are watching some live pictures here out of Gaza.

But quickly, these earlier releases we saw of two Americans and two Israeli hostages, are these seen as a template for something larger, test cases for the process of releasing hostages?

ANDERSON: That was -- that's certainly the way that it was described to me, diplomatic sources, who had been talking to us last Friday on the release of the American mother and her 17-year-old daughter and then on Tuesday this week, of course, when you saw the release of the elderly Israeli women.

It did seem as if there was some momentum to this and certainly reports behind the scenes suggesting that what we -- the momentum was growing for a significant number of hostages to be released.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that all 229 were discussed. I don't know that. Certainly, there were numbers floating around as many as 50 or possibly more.

So I think you could possibly suggest that those Qatar-led negotiations including Egypt this week and last Friday was a test case for what might happened next.

At this stage, obviously, we wait to see what happens in the hours to come.

KEILAR: All right. Becky Anderson, in Doha, thank you for that report.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We just want to update you that we got word from the White House they are monitoring the situation.

However, the National Security Council spokesman, John Kirby, told reporters the White House was not going to, quote, "get into the habit of chiming in from the sidelines here on what they're doing on the ground."

The White House not looking to weigh in on exactly what's happening with specifics just yet.

We want to take you back to the region. CNN's Anderson Cooper is there for us in Tel Aviv -- Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes. Boris, Brianna, thanks so much.

I want to pick up on something Becky Anderson said about the IDF's response to the questions about a deal in the works. This is from Daniel Hagari, the rear admiral and spokesperson for the IDF.

He said, "Regarding the rumors circulating, over 200 hostages held in Gaza and a deal," he said "I will answer it this way. I suggest you disregard rumors. This is psychological terror and a cynical use of Israeli civilians by Hamas.

"We will reach and present any credible information whether civilian, intelligence or operational, any relevant information will be given to the families first once confirmed and then we'll notify the public.

"Until then, don't surrender to Hamas' manipulations" of what he described as "psychological terror."

I want to check in with Nic Robertson in Sderot right now.

Nic, talk about the sort of the pace of what you have been seeing over the last 20 minutes or so compared to what it was earlier.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. It feels like the pace has sort of dropped off a little bit in terms of artillery strikes. There are still some.

But what we have heard and seen in the last few minutes, last five minutes or 10 minutes, perhaps indicates some activity on the ground.

When I say activity, military activity and possibly troops in combat on the ground.

We're seeing -- we've seen a couple of flairs coming up that typically soldiers would use in the battlefield to illuminate the area ahead of them to perhaps flush out the enemy. We're seeing a couple of those flares. We don't know why they're used

right now.

We've also heard heavy bursts of machine gunfire. And sometimes when we hear heavy machine gunfire there are bursts, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. This wasn't that.

This was a very sustained firing of a heavy machine gun for a period of time, relatively short, but a period of time. And we've heard that on a couple of occasions, which again perhaps indicates that troops are engaged in some level of firefight on the ground inside of Gaza right now.

[14:35:07]

We can't define it or know it for sure what it is and the sounds of what we're seeing. It's all indicative of what the IDF has been speaking about, about using greater force, about expanding the incursions going on over the past couple nights.

Incursions that have ended each night with troops coming out, tanks, artillery and armored vehicles going in, but all of that coming out at the end of the night.

So again, I think we're seeing more of that play out this evening. The tempo of the moment, in the past 20 minutes, a little quieter.

Of course, immediately before that, levels of rocket fire coming out of Gaza. None of that in the past 20 minutes, I would say.

COOPER: Nic, is it clear how many smaller incursions that Israel has made over the last couple days?

We have -- the IDF released video, which we'll get and try to show as soon as we get it, of an un incursion that took place in which we see tanks moving into the territory in Gaza just over the border, and essentially kind of leveling ground.

And they said it was also kind of looking for any kind of munitions that might be there, eliminating any reconnaissance towers or observation posts that might be there.

They called it a prelude to any other force that would come across. Do we know how frequent that has been taking place?

ROBERTSON: I think that the incursion that we were told about by the IDF two nights ago, over my shoulder here you can see some bright lights on the horizon there, the border crossing.

In the darkness beyond that is a town called Zakim. And it was an incursion south of there and that seemed to be a single incursion.

To locate that precisely, that's right on the northern edge of Gaza, not far from and a few miles from the sea.

The IDF this morning talked ability, spoke about incursions last night and they spoke about incursions that were further south towards Harmunis. We're talking about 10, 12, 15 miles south of where we are, the central and southern central Gaza area.

So those incursions there, it's not clear how many, but the indication was that a couple of different locations. We're not getting entire specifics because, obviously, that's operational detail that the IDF doesn't want to put in the public domain.

As you say, it will be used for the follow-on incursions of other troops to come in, in a safer manager.

As you were discussing with General Wesley Clark earlier, to rush others in quickly can lead to casualties on your own side. That's something that IDF will have great concern about because that is politically very sensitive.

The higher the casualty toll on the IDF side, on the Israeli side, the greater the political pressure would be on the government to change course and try a different approach.

That's not the intent of this government. They really do want to see this through to the end, the end being the destruction of Hamas -- Anderson?

COOPER: Yes. Nic, we'll check in with you shortly.

We'll take another quick break. And our coverage continues.

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[14:43:07]

COOPER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage. We are watching what the Israeli Defense Forces are calling an expansion of their ground operation.

The full scale of it we do not know. We've been watching both the skies over Gaza and listening as well with our correspondents all along the border.

Sara Sidner is with me in Tel Aviv.

There has been a lot of waiting for an operation to begin, a lot of questions about why a larger operation has not begun. There were a lot of Israeli officials talking about an imminent ground operation weeks ago.

What are you hearing?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR & SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think there is a little bit of a dissension between some in the military, some in the government trying to figure out what they can do.

Because they're worried about three different things. One is a long war where they're on the ground in urban warfare that can be deadly and dangerous and very deadly not only for Israeli troops but civilians as well.

Two is the wider war. They're concerned whether or not Hezbollah is going to get involved in a much larger way if they go in full scale on the ground. You can see thousands of Israeli troops on the ground in Gaza.

Three really is what they do if they go in with the full thousands of troops inside of Gaza. Do they stay, try to govern Gaza? This has happened before and they left.

So there are these three things sort of hanging over them.

You have one more that is different from times past when they have taken, for example, one soldier. They have more than 200 people who are hostages, innocent people taken by Hamas, that are still there in those tunnels.

And so they also have to make that a calculation, never mind the civilian casualties that they are racking up at this point inside of Gaza.

COOPER: So many different factors here and different clocks, different times. I mean there is concern, obviously, about from the IDF standpoint, keeping 360-some-odd thousand reservists on the borders away from their families, keeping them in readiness.

[14:45:09]

And how long can that -- can they do that before it begins to affect morale, before there are other questions being raised. And there's the international pressure.

SIDNER: I think the international pressure is probably perhaps the most concerning because, as this has gone on -- and it happened every single time there has been a large-scale military operation, this one being an official war declared by Israel, so different from times past.

But there is always the concern that, over time -- and it's already happening -- with the number of civilians who have been killed, you're going to get some reaction from the international community.

And already, there are some nations asking for a ceasefire. And as that cry grows, with the number of civilians killed, Israel is going to, at some point, respond to that. They cannot keep going at this pace.

So something has to give. We'll wait and see.

But the reservists -- and we've been talking to a few of them -- they're ready whenever they're asked at this point because of what happened on October 7th, because they all know someone who was killed or kidnapped.

COOPER: Yes. Sara Sidner, thanks very much.

Arlette Saenz is at the White House for us.

Arlette, what are we hearing from the White House? They say they're in active talks with Israel about a humanitarian pause.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Anderson, and a short while ago, the White House national security spokesperson briefed reporters and was very quite careful and deliberate in not weighing in specifically on the tactics being used by Israel right now when it comes to a possible ground operation.

The White House saying it would not be appropriate at this time to weigh in on those matters, that ultimately these decisions are up to the Israeli Defense Forces.

In addition to that, the White House has also talked about the need to continue the talks when it comes to trying to free the hostages, which includes several Americans.

John Kirby, the National Security Council spokesperson, says the U.S. does support a pause if there would be an opportunity get these hostages out. That is something the U.S. is in active conversations with Israel about this moment.

It comes at a delicate time, as we're seeing Israel pick up their operations, whether strikes or this ground operation, against Hamas.

And it comes as President Biden, just on Wednesday, had said that he believes that Israel does have the responsibility to go after Hamas, but they also need to ensure the protection of civilians is top of mind in this moment.

Now the president earlier today was briefed by his national security team, including national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin.

The White House wouldn't detail whether it involved discussions about the ground operations.

But it does come as the White House has been watching this with much concern when it comes to the civilian lives and the efforts to get hostages out from Hamas.

COOPER: All right. Arlette Saenz, thank you very much, at the White House.

We continue to watch the situation over the skies over Gaza. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:52:36]

COOPER: And welcome back to our continuing coverage of what Israel's calling an expanding ground operation in Gaza.

Jim Sciutto is along Israel's northern border with Lebanon. I want to go to him.

Jim, what are you seeing there tonight? And obviously, a lot of eyes will be on that border if and when this operation in Gaza really expands?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No question. Israel's been watching this northern border very closely since October 7th for a reaction, the possibility of a second front from Hezbollah. Of course, also Hamas, backed by Iran.

And in particular, a greater alert as they've expanded operations now no Gaza.

Today, up here, we saw two Hezbollah strikes towards Israel. One falling in Israel. Another one that seemed to go off course and go into northern Syria. Israel responding to those.

And as we've been up here, we've heard outgoing Israeli artillery. At this point, though, it has maintained sort of what you might call a low simmer of tensions between Hezbollah and Israel.

The real concern is, as those operations expand into Gaza, that Hezbollah would amp up its reaction and attempt to attack more aggressively.

And I can tell you, having spoken to IDF forces up here over the last several days, they have tens of thousands of them. A raid on the northern border, they are watching very closely for exactly that scenario.

There is also the concern, of course, looking to Israel's northern border with Syria, where there are also Iranian-backed militias.

And that's exactly where the U.S. carried out strikes today because those Iranian-backed militias, over the last several days, have been taking shots at U.S. forces in the region, both in Syria and in Iraq.

And those strikes today from the U.S. on those Syrian bases seems to be a message: Don't even think about attacking U.S. forces or, if you do, the U.S. is going to take that very seriously.

That was clear in Secretary Austin's statement on those strikes, saying it's separate from Israel's operations against Hamas in Gaza. But if Iran is thinking about further expanding those attacks, that the U.S. is going to respond accordingly.

COOPER: And, Jim, that's one of the things that Israeli officials point to. They say that the arrival of those aircraft carrier groups by the U.S., that's really a message to Hezbollah.

[14:55:09]

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's true. I've spoken with a number of Israeli military officers and officials who believe that that message sending from the U.S.-- and by the way, it's substantive message sending, right? Because it's two carrier groups in the eastern Mediterranean with all the military capabilities that they carry as well as other forces coming into the region for forced protection, increased missile defense.

We saw a case already of a U.S. destroyer off the coast of Yemen shooting down missiles fired by Iranian-backed Houthis, the U.S. believes, toward Iran (sic), that that is a substantive military presence in the region that gives them the capability to defend Israel, defend U.S. bases in the region.

But also to react if Iran attempts to expand this war either through its own forces or through its proxies.

And as you say, Anderson, there were a lot of folks here in Israel who give some credit to that deployment for helping to deter an expansion, at least so far.

COOPER: Jim Sciutto, reporting along Israel's northern border.

We're going to take a short break. Our coverage will continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)