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IDF: Ground Operation In Gaza Is Expanding; U.S. Officials: Hostage Negotiations Will Continue Despite Expanded Israeli Ground War In Gaza. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 27, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN BREAKING NEWS.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: We are following breaking news at this hour, Israel's military says its ground operation in Gaza is expanding. I'm Anderson Cooper in Tel Aviv.

We are seeing live pictures out of Gaza right now, large explosions over the Gaza Strip. The IDF says it is "operating forcefully," those are their words, "on all fronts and will continue striking Gaza City and keep calling upon civilians to evacuate south."

This comes as we're learning more about hostage negotiations with Hamas. U.S. officials insisting hostage talks will continue even as the Israeli military ramps up its airstrikes and expanding its operation on the ground.

Jeremy Diamond is in Ashkelon for us.

Jeremy, what have you been seeing now over the last half an hour or so?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we have been hearing the steady thud of these intensified bombardments and artillery fire on the Gaza Strip. This has been the loudest and the most intense, perhaps even the most sustained bombardment of the Gaza Strip that we have heard in nearly three weeks of covering this war.

And all of this as the IDF says that it is expanding its ground operations inside of Gaza. We have been watching over the last several days a buildup to this moment, a buildup to a potential ground invasion, which as of yet we do not have confirmation that these expanded ground operations are indeed that invasion that has been expected, that has been telegraphed by Israel's political and military leadership.

But we have seen over the last several days targeted raids carried out by Israeli infantry troops as well as tanks rolling across the border into Gaza, targeting Hamas' infrastructure and those tunnels, which Israeli military officials say will be key to eliminating those tunnels in order to make it safer for their troops as they go into Gaza.

What we have also been watching today is those potential hostage negotiations, which are very much now complicated by this expanded Israeli ground operation inside of Gaza. There were signs yesterday and this morning, Anderson, that those talks were progressing in a very real, a very significant way. But now it appears that they are all but stalled.

Officials insisting to me and my colleagues that these talks have not yet collapsed and a senior U.S. official telling me that they will continue despite what we are watching tonight, despite this expanded ground operation, despite this intensified bombardment, and even despite a ground operation invasion potentially beginning, Anderson.

COOPER: And Jeremy, from your vantage point in Ashkelon, are you hearing beyond explosions, the thuds of munitions landing, are you hearing small arms fire? Are you hearing machine gun fire?

DIAMOND: We heard something that perhaps sounded like a machine gun or a 50 caliber weapon being used. It could also have been a helicopter. It's difficult. It's dark out right now. We are about 10 kilometers from the border with Gaza, so I don't want to make any definitive pronouncements.

But what we certainly have been hearing, Anderson, is the outgoing artillery fire and then bombardment of Gaza, which not only can you hear, but you can also feel it kind of shake the buildings, even as far as we are right now from the Gaza Strip. What we also - what I can also tell you is that we have been hearing that bombardment continuously over the last several days, over the last couple of weeks, but it has been nowhere near as intense as what we have been hearing tonight.

And certainly as we get in reports from people who are inside of Gaza reporting very much the same, that this is the most intense bombardment that they have felt. And what's also notable is that it appears that telecommunications, Internet and phone service have been cut off in large parts of the Gaza Strip.

COOPER: Are you still seeing rockets coming from Gaza?

DIAMOND: Over the last couple of hours, we had two sirens that came this way. There was also fire earlier in the day towards central Israel. The rockets here this evening appear to have been intercepted by the Iron Dome. But earlier today, Anderson, there were actually two direct hits here in the city of Ashkelon.

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One of them hitting the ninth floor of an apartment building. We actually went to the scene and saw the balcony that was destroyed in part by that rocket. And it also hits near a home, a residential home here in the city of Ashkelon. No casualties were reported but certainly one of the interesting things has been to see even as Israel has intensified its bombardment, even as they have conducted these raids, it certainly has not stopped the pace of Hamas being able to fire those rockets.

We know that that's in part because they operate from out of these tunnels, these dozens of miles of tunnels under the Gaza Strip. And they are also able to fire some of these rockets remotely as well, which makes the challenge greater for Israeli forces to try and eliminate those positions.

COOPER: Jeremy, it seems like there are some very heavy munitions landing in Gaza. I mean, I'm in Tel Aviv, I can feel, as we have been talking, I can hear dull thuds and actually sort of feel the reverberations of them from here.

DIAMOND: Yes. It - again, it has been intense and it has been sustained and you can only imagine the power, as I can feel the power here, of those bombs landing in Gaza. And you can feel the building shake. You can feel the windows shake.

It is hard to imagine, Anderson, the power and the destruction that those bombs are wrecking inside the Gaza Strip. We have watched already, as Israel has intensified its bombardment in recent days, as the casualty count has risen to over 7,000, I believe is the latest number, inside the Gaza Strip. Nearly 3,000 of those casualties, Anderson, it needs to be noted, are children, according to the Hamas- controlled Palestinian Ministry of Health.

And so we know that every time we hear this bombardment intensifying inside of Gaza, we know that there are lives being lost and, in some instances, civilian lives being lost, including, unfortunately, children.

COOPER: Jeremy Diamond, come back to you in Ashkelon shortly.

I want to go to Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, former Commanding General of the U.S. Army Europe and 7th Army CNN Military Analyst.

Gen. Hertling, what do you - when you see what has been going on for the last two hours or so in our coverage, what do you think is going on?

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It could be a series of things or a choice of things, Anderson. It could be an increase in bombardment to prepare for an assault, which normally happens. It could be a continued bombardment, just for the sake of knowing that they - the Israeli defense forces have achieved targeting data and intelligence that shows where targets are.

Jeremy just said tonight there are continued rockets going off. Israel has the capability to see where those rockets are coming from. Every time a point of origin appears on a radar screen or intelligence feed, it's going to be targeted by Israeli aircraft.

Or third, it could be sending a message about the slow pace of returning the hostages. It appears Hamas is using human shields, hostages in this case, to delay Israel's operation. And it's been 20 days since they took these hostages. So Israel's probably sending at least a partial message, even though that hostage negotiation continues of saying we're not going to put up with this anymore. Either return the hostages or the operation will be executed.

Now, truthfully, I'm your military analyst, Anderson. I'd like to be able to tell you what is exactly happening. But unless I'm in the operations center of the Israeli defense forces, I don't know what they're doing, neither do any of us who are making analysis on this. And guess what? Neither does Hamas. They don't know what's happening either.

But I will tell you the continued concussion of these bombs and these artillery shells is not only affecting them physically, but it's affecting them psychologically, because being under constant huge shelling like this really takes its toll on a force.

COOPER: And, Lieutenant General, when - I think many people, when they hear about a ground incursion of Israeli forces and knowing that there are more than 300,000 troops on Israel's borders, they think it's going to be something large all at once. Do you - I mean, that's a possibility, I assume. But given their experiences with, say, fighting Hezbollah in 2006, those movements were very slow as they went into Lebanon. What are you expecting in terms of the speed of any kind of operation?

HERTLING: Well, again, this depends, Anderson. I hate to say this, but yes, when Israel went into Lebanon against Hezbollah in 2006, it was a slow operation.

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And unfortunately, they paid the price for some of that.

At the same time, in 2014, when the IDF went into Gaza, they had 70,000 forces go in on three different axes, in the north, the center, and the south. That was a fast operation. There was also a lot of defensive positions that Hamas has had established. They've only improved those defensive positions and the tunnels underneath, the subterranean operations.

So it could be a massive invasion and a massive incursion on four or five different axes. It could be a smaller invasion to gain more intelligence, to use air forces to strike them. It could be targeted operations on specific information that the Israeli army has in a tunnel complex or in the bottom of a building. It could be any of those things.

And that's where, really, Hamas is on their back foot, but they're in a very key defensive position underground. They can withstand some of this targeting. And unfortunately, the only people that are being hurt are the Palestinian civilians who are being placed between Hamas and Israel and can't get out of some of the locations within Gaza.

COOPER: Lt. Gen. Hertling, thank you.

We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right. Hostage negotiations are still ongoing, despite what we're seeing, these ramped-up strikes on Gaza.

Alex Marquardt is with us now on what U.S. officials are saying about the hostage negotiations. Alex?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna and Boris, American officials are unwilling to say that, given what we've seen tonight from Israel in terms of its activities in Gaza, that the hostage conversations have collapsed. The American officials have told us, myself and several of my colleagues, that those conversations will continue. One person saying, in particular, there's no scenario until the hostages are free that we would stop pursuing talks.

Now, one thing we have heard repeatedly from various Biden administration officials is the need for humanitarian pauses to both allow aid to get into Gaza, but also to allow for more time and ease for these hostages to come out. That is something that we just heard moments ago from the National Security's John Kirby, who was speaking with journalists, saying that they have been having active conversations with Israel about these humanitarian pauses, saying that is something that they absolutely would support.

Now, when you look at what we are literally looking at right now in Gaza, that appears to be the last thing on Israel's mind. They seem to be really pushing forward, really expanding their military operations. That's something that I'm told U.S. officials are also seeing, but certainly trying to assess. They're watching this very carefully as well, but they are certainly seeing this as an escalation of what we've seen in terms of incursions by Israel over the course of the past few days.

Now, where these talks exactly stand about the hostages, that is hard to say. What everyone seems to agree on is that they are not in as good a place as they were earlier today, when we thought that we were closer to a potential deal that could have seen a much larger group of civilian hostages released.

So it appears that those talks have taken a step back. We have heard from the Israeli military spokesperson who was asked about this as he announced the expansion of these military operations, Brianna and Boris, he said that you should not believe the rumors about a potential deal.

But we are told reliably that the conversations continue. They just don't seem to be as - in as good a place as they were earlier today and yesterday, guys.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And Alex, as you were speaking, we're hearing some very loud or what sounded like explosions or very loud thuds as we take a live look at the skyline in Gaza. It's been lit up multiple times since we've been watching.

We want to take you now to Doha in Qatar with CNN's Becky Anderson. Because obviously, Becky, the Qataris are an integral part of these negotiations. What's the latest?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes, they are. These are catalytic negotiations. Remember, there's been two cycles of these, of course, with two - with an American civilian and her 17-year-old daughter last Friday released, and then - and two Israeli citizens, elderly women released on Tuesday.

There had been some momentum, we were told by diplomatic sources who are very familiar with the talks earlier on today, and it's now quarter past 11 in the evening Qatar time.

Earlier on today, we've been told that significant progress had been made in these hostage negotiations. We were told that there were still issues that were outstanding. I'm just reading my notes here, but talks were ongoing. And at the time earlier today, they remained hopeful that this momentum would continue.

And at that point, there was a suggestion that at least in principle, there might be an announcement on a large number, a relatively large number of civilian hostages being released at some point in the next few days. It's not clear, given that we have now had the IDF announce expanded operations in Gaza, whether or not that momentum for this mediation continues.

Certainly, we know that there are 229 hostages or abductees as described by the IDF earlier on today. What we don't know is how many of those are Israeli citizens and how many are foreign nationals, how many are women, children and the elderly as opposed to military hostages.

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I.e. hostages who are of either soldiers, serving soldiers or of reservist age.

What we understood was that the negotiations were on the release of a significant number of civilian hostages, whether that was in exchange for more aid and a pause in the fighting, whether the details on that had been organized. That's certainly the sense we had at the time.

But as I say now here, as we move towards midnight Qatar time, certainly no evidence that the momentum for these talks has in any way slowed down. Certainly no evidence that these talks have fallen apart, but certainly no news as of yet as to whether these talks continue at this point with a view to news of a hostage release anytime soon.

KEILAR: Do we have any view into the details of these talks? How shrouded in secrecy are they? What are the interests of the parties as they are discussing who to release, how to release them?

ANDERSON: Yes, that's a really good question. And the details are not absolutely clear, but I think we've got some sort of parameters that at least we understand were being discussed right from the outset. Let's remember right from when we first knew that they had hostages being taken, and I'm talking about nearly three weeks ago.

The Israelis had said there will be no ceasefire until, if at all, until hostages are released. They didn't see that as a credible demand from Hamas, who were saying they wanted to see a ceasefire before hostages were released.

As things have moved on, it does appear that there were a number of parameters here. There was the Rafah Border Crossing. How much more aid could Hamas demand was sent through that border crossing and to where, of course, incredibly important that more humanitarian aid, fuel, medical supplies gets into Gaza.

But massive concern and a red line by the Israelis from the beginning of this saying that - those - that aid, those medical supplies, that fuel could not go to Hamas. We do know that the Rafah Border Crossing, as we understand it, has been in play in these negotiations. And then the other point is: where are these hostages, does Hamas have all of these hostages, could it be that there are some hostages who aren't with Hamas at the moment and then how many - what's the exchange as far as civilians are concerned.

It did appear that that was an exchange for food - for aid that was being discussed as opposed to a prisoner swap, which would be military for women and teenagers, Palestinian women and teenagers being held in Israeli jails. So perhaps it can be described as a twin track. I can't stand that up. Certainly, we've heard reports of that.\

But at present, all we do know is that there are 229 hostages as described. That's the number that was described by the IDF earlier. And at this stage, it's not clear whether any of those, be it a large number or a smaller number, will now be released anytime soon.

SANCHEZ: Many unanswered questions to this point, now nearly three weeks into being captured, abducted by Hamas.

Becky, please keep us up to speed with the very latest as we take another live look at Gaza, the skyline there again lighting up repeatedly throughout the evening. Clear signs that Israel has expanded its ground activity in that region.

The White House, though, they are not confirming whether Israel notified the United States in advance of any operation. Obviously, a lot to watch for in this situation.

KEILAR: Certainly. And we will be keeping an eye on this. You're looking at live pictures here out of Gaza. We will bring you the very latest after a quick break.

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COOPER: And we're back live from Israel.

I want to go to our Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, former commanding general, U.S. Army, Europe and 7th Army and CNN military analyst.

Gen. Hertling, we've gotten some night vision shot from Reuters. I just want to show that to our viewers. And if you - I'm not sure you can tell exactly what's going on. I'm told it's some form of shelling across the border. This is from a short time ago.

HERTLING: Yes. That looks a lot like a direct fire shot from a tank, Anderson, because it's on a flat line right above the surface. You can - I mean, tank rounds move pretty fast, about a mile a second. You can see that it not only comes out of the - whatever it is, the tube, and then hits something and explodes, right? I would suggest that's probably a tank round.

And based on this, the sounds ...

COOPER: Yes, it seems to be parallel to the ground.

HERTLING: ... that came after this, it sounds like a tank hitting a target.

COOPER: So there are tanks, if that is in fact a tank round, which seems to be firing from the border, what does that tell you about the closeness with which forces are operating?

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