Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Israel Expands Assault, Slamming Gaza from Air and Ground; U.S. Warns of Elevated Risk of War Spreading in Middle East; Soon, Trial Begins in Colorado on Whether 14th Amendment's Insurrectionist Ban Disqualifies Trump from Office. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 30, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning a new round of airstrikes lighting up the sky in Gaza. This, as the IDF says, it is stepping up operations on the ground.

The United Nations says the situation in Gaza is growing more desperate by the hour. Today dozens of trucks waiting to cross in as tens of thousands of people have been displaced.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump's run for the White House is being challenged in court today. What the 14th Amendment has to do with it and why Colorado is taking the lead.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman in New York. Sarah Sidner is in Israel. This is CNN News Central.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We are just hours away from an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council as Israel expands its assault on Hamas.

On the ground in Gaza, Israeli military officials say there are now more troops there on the ground than there were just 24 hours ago. The troops pushing deeper into Gaza as they hunt for Hamas and what's believed to be the more than 200 hundred hostages that are in that underground tunnel system complex.

And from the sky, a steady drumbeat of new strikes and explosions this morning have been seen and heard. This is amid urgent calls for a pause in the bombings so desperately needed food, water, fuel and medical supplies can get into Gaza.

Right now, an Egyptian official says 75 aid trucks are waiting to cross into Gaza from the Rafah border in Egypt. The International Red Cross is now calling the humanitarian crisis in Gaza a catastrophic failing.

We begin with the ground incursion and what is happening now where there are some, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, more than 8,000 people who have been killed in this past three weeks as Israel has declared war on Hamas.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Sderot, just about a mile from the Gaza border. You've been there for quite a few hours now. What are you saying at this hour?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, as we enter the fourth day of this expanded Israeli ground operation, we are continuing to hear a lot of artillery hitting the Gaza Strip, continued bombardment of Gaza, as well as intense fighting going on between Hamas militants and Israeli forces on the ground. We can hear machine gun fire. We've heard it over the last several hours. And what we've also been able to see, thanks to our photojournalist,

Matthias Somm, is images of destruction inside the northeastern most city of Gaza, Beit Hanoun, which is right behind me over my shoulder. And what you can see is the destruction, destroyed buildings. And this is also the area where we've watched tanks go by, and, again, fighting ongoing between Israeli forces and Hamas militants. We've seen plumes of smoke emerge as we hear the outgoing artillery and then hitting inside of Gaza.

We have learned today that the Israeli forces have struck over 600 targets in recent days, including underground tunnels and command centers that Hamas maintains below the Gaza Strip.

We are also learning more about where these Israeli forces are operating, as you can hear, some more outgoing there just to the side of me now and a plume of smoke actually emerging off-camera here that appears to be perhaps even in Northern Israel, actually. We'll get back to you on that.

But what we have seen is Israeli forces operating not only in the northern most part of Gaza, but also further south, near Gaza City, one of the main roads there. We have this video of an Israeli tank appearing to operate on one of these main roads near Gaza City and actually firing on a passenger vehicle.

Now, we do not know who was inside that passenger vehicle, but it does tell us that Israeli forces are certainly operating further south than just the northern most part of Gaza where they made their initial approach. Sara?

SIDNER: I think that I am hearing loud booms and blasts behind you.

[10:05:01]

Can you give us some sense of what's happening literally right now?

DIAMOND: Yes. Well, there are two artillery positions near our position. There's one this way from where I'm standing and one the other way. I'm hearing one of those outgoing positions now, but we are also seeing some plumes of smoke. It's not clear to me right now if that is in Northern Israel, just north of the Gaza Strip, or if it is inside of Gaza. But we are seeing -- let me see if our photojournalist, Matthias Somm, can turn the camera towards the smoke that is this way, maybe you can get a sense. But, again, we have been seeing kind of throughout the day, that definitely is outgoing fire, outgoing artillery fire that we are hearing. But -- and, again, these are the sights and sounds of war that have been happening over the last several days and are going to continue to happen. The IDF has made very, very clear that they are going to continue to expand these ground operations and continue to add more troops as they carry out this ground offensive in Gaza.

SIDNER: Yes. I know there's been a call internationally from many of the U.N. countries that are asking for a ceasefire. Israel has been saying, no, we are going to continue our war at this point because of what happened on October 7th, trying to get rid of Hamas.

Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for putting yourself in danger as well as Matthias there with you, showing us the pictures. John, back to you in New York.

BERMAN: Yes. And just to give people a sense of where Jeremy is. Sderot is right there just outside of Gaza. And as Jeremy looks over his shoulder, he's trying to distinguish whether or not he's seeing the plumes of smoke rising from here or here and that could be difficult. You're talking about distances there that are very small. That's just to give you a sense of what Jeremy is literally seeing and hearing right now.

Now, when we talk about aid, the White House says that President Biden has pressed the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to immediately scale up the flow of humanitarian aid that's been coming into Gaza down here through the Rafah crossing. He wants that aid in much greater quantities and much more quickly.

Priscilla Alvarez at the White House. Priscilla, what has the president specifically been saying to the Israeli prime minister?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, John, the president and the prime minister have spoken multiple times since those attacks on October 7th. This was the first phone call over the weekend since Israel expanded its ground operation in Gaza, and part of the focus was getting more aid to Gaza. Of course, this comes at a time where a dire humanitarian crisis in the region is growing and as aid agencies say that there is not enough food, water and medicine, all of that in short supply.

And so in this call, the president making clear to the prime minister that they need to get that humanitarian aid into Gaza. According to a readout from the White House, it said the following. The president, quote, underscored the need to immediately and significantly increase the flow of humanitarian assistance to meet the needs of civilians in Gaza.

Of course, this is an extension of what U .S. officials have been pressing Israel to do. And according to a top Israeli official, there are expected to be as many as 100 trucks that enter Gaza.

Now, in addition to this, over the weekend, we learned that connectivity, internet connectivity was restored in Gaza. That was something else that the U.S. was pressing for.

So, this remains a priority for this administration. But in addition to that, something that U.S. officials are keenly watching is that this conflict not widen, not spread any further, and especially sending a message of deterrence to Iran.

Take a listen to what National Security Council Spokesman John Kirby had to say about that on CNN This Morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: We also take our national security interests writ large in the region very seriously, which is why the president has now employed two aircraft carrier strike groups. One will stay in Eastern Med. One will go on down to the Gulf region. We've got to make sure we send a signal to all actors, not just Iran, but all actors, certainly Iran included, that we will take our national security interests very seriously, we will protect and defend our troops, and we'll do it at a time in a manner of our choosing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, John, the president is being regularly updated on all of these issues and the situation in Israel and Gaza, but clearly going into today, key priorities being that that humanitarian aid gets into Gaza and that this conflict is contained. John?

BERMAN: All right. Priscilla Alvarez at the White House, Priscilla, thank you so much for that reporting. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Joining us now to speak more about this is Aaron David Miller, a longtime Middle East negotiator at the State Department, who has worked under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

So, Aaron, put this in context of what we were just kind of hearing from John Kirby. How high the risk is at this point of this spilling over to become a regional conflict that draws the United States in?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: Right. So, when the national security adviser in the United States, Jake Sullivan, publicly talks about serious escalation, and he's not using, obviously, they're getting additional indications, both from Hezbollah and Iran, that there may, in fact, be a pattern of serious escalation.

[10:10:03]

And when we talk about regional war, we talk about two things. Number one, a major conflict between Israel and Hezbollah that goes well beyond the summer war they fought in 2006, where, for 34 days, the northern half of the Middle East's most primitive (ph) military power, Israel, was shut down for 34 days. And this time, Hezbollah doesn't have a paucity of high-trajectory weapons. They have anywhere from 150,000 to 200,000. So, that's escalation number one. Then, of course, you introduce the reality of two carrier strike groups. The Dwight Eisenhower, I think, is due in the Eastern Med in a day or so, deployed with the real possibility of U.S. involvement. And then, of course, there's Iran, which would represent a direct confrontation between Israel and Iran. We almost certainly involve the United States. And then we're talking about plunging financial markets, rising oil prices, and a major escalation, which could involve the Arab Gulf states as well.

I'm not predicting that, but I think it's a serious, serious concern right now, particularly as the Israelis ramp up their operations in Gaza.

BOLDUAN: Combining this together, I still have a fundamental question. Does Hezbollah want another full-on war with Israel and does its backer, does Iran want this to expand?

MILLER: The last three weeks, Kate, would suggest a, not just a no, but a strong no, in the sense that Hezbollah and the Israelis are abiding by the so-called rules of the game. Hezbollah has not used high-trajectory weapons to strike targets that far south, and the Israelis are operating with a relatively limited range in Lebanon.

Hamas is doing Hezbollah's work for it in for Iran, and I'm sure Hezbollah, particularly, since they're going to be under pressure from the Lebanese, who will bear the brunt, I might add, of Israel's retaliation. It's both prepared to fight Israel to the last Palestinian. So, I think Hezbollah calculation is not to waste or to grade the regional assets and risk a major conflict that could involve the U.S. I think the thing goes for Iran as well.

BOLDUAN: Okay. Russia's ambassador to Israel was just summoned to the Israeli Foreign Ministry over in Jerusalem, over news that Hamas representatives held meetings and visited Moscow last week. I want to read part of the statement from the Israelis, hosting the leaders of Hamas who are directly responsible for the murderous terrorist attack on October 7th, for the kidnapping of hostages and bloodshed of over 1,400 Israelis by them conveys a message of legitimacy for terrorism against Israelis.

The alliance, if you will, these visits, the coming together of Russia now, Iran and Iran's proxy, Hamas, how dangerous is this? And what can the U.S. do about it?

MILLER: Well, I think the United States is doing everything they can by supporting Ukraine to basically push back against Putin's aggression in that war. And Iran is playing a critical role with respect to the provision of drones, technology and advisers.

Look, I think for the Russians and the Chinese, what's happening in Israel, Palestine, is a ready-made opportunity to compete and, in fact, create much more influence in the global south. What you see now with the U.N., I think, is the continued erosion of Israel's international legitimacy and a major push, I think, to embarrass the United States, which has stood steadfastly by the Israelis. In coming days, though, if the humanitarian issue does not improve and Palestinian civilians continue to die as a consequence of Israel's efforts to strike Hamas positions, I think the U.S.-Israeli relationship, there may be an increasing daylight between the two as the Biden administration seeks to press Israel on both of those issues, even while they provide extraordinary support in Israel's war against Hamas.

BOLDUAN: Yes, really important context for you, especially of what the coming days are really going to mean in that key portion of this, the humanitarian aid and what the impact is on the global view of this conflict.

Thank you so much, Aaron. John?

BERMAN: And on that last line right there, growing hunger and desperation, that is how the United Nations is describing the situation in Gaza as they are trying to get critical aid to reach civilians.

Court hearings begin today in Colorado to determine whether Donald Trump should be banned from running for president.

Anti-Semitic threats made against Jewish students at Cornell, what officials are now saying.

[10:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: So, any moment now, Donald Trump's run for the White House is going to be taken to court. Now, this centers around the 14th Amendment's insurrectionist ban. The question is, does it disqualify Trump from getting on Colorado's 2024 presidential ballot.

Now, this historic and some say long shot attempt was brought by six Republicans and unaffiliated Colorado voters back in September.

CNN's Marshall Cohen has the details on this. He's joining us now. Marshall, what's going to happen today?

MARSHALL COHEN, REPORTER: Well, just moments ago the proceedings kicked off in Denver. This is expected to be a one-week trial, a bench trial, where a judge will decide that key question that you mentioned, is Donald Trump eligible to run for president?

[10:20:03]

Kate, this all comes from the Constitution, the 14th Amendment, which was ratified after the Civil War, that has a key provision about who is and is not eligible to hold offices in this country.

I'll read you a quote from the Constitution, and then everyone can decide for themselves. The Constitution says, no person shall hold any office under the United States, having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort. Basically, if you swore an oath to the Constitution and then engaged in insurrection, you're -- for office.

This was applied to thousands of Confederates in the 1800s, but it has not been used since then. That's why a lot of folks think this might be a long shot. But the fact that this case has reached the trial stage today, that it has gotten this far, survived multiple motions to dismiss that Donald Trump and the Colorado Republican Party brought forward, that, in some ways, is remarkable.

It's expected to last about one week. It's been put on an expedited process because, of course, the primaries are approaching next year. The judge in this case out in Denver, she said that she wants to rule by Thanksgiving, giving enough time for possible appeals to the Colorado Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court.

Kate, pretty much everyone I've talked to expects this case to be decided in one way or another by the Supreme Court. But a big moment today in Denver, the proceedings are underway.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Great to see you, Marshall. Thank you so much. John?

BERMAN: And with me now is CNN Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Elliot Williams.

And one of the reasons, Elliott, that this will ultimately be decided likely by the Supreme Court is this kind of a legal twilight zone, because there are some very big legal issues that need to be cited. And with your help, I actually put together three of the major questions that a judge will have to rule on here in a legally definable way, was it an insurrection? We can put this up on the screen. In a legally definable way, did Trump engage in an insurrection? And in a legally definable way, does Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, does it actually cover presidents?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Let's pretend this is an episode of the Twilight Zone, John, and say picture it. The framers of the Constitution were very long on values but very short on details. And they sort of explained a concept that we don't want insurrectionists running our country, but they never just defined or described how you would sort that out. And so these questions of how do you even define what an insurrectionist is, and even if you assume that someone's an insurrectionist, how do you hold that person accountable is simply not in the Constitution.

And the only parties -- like everybody might have opinions on this and, frankly, everybody has opinions on Donald Trump, but the only person entity that can really sort this out is are the courts, and most likely, as Marshall had said a moment ago, the Supreme Court. It's just an open question.

BERMAN: If people are looking for a slam dunk here, either way, they may not find it, Elliot?

WILLIAMS: No, they really will not. And, you know, to Marshall's point a little bit earlier, it's not just the mere fact that the that this provision the Constitution hasn't been triggered in over a hundred years is just simply -- it's just silent on how to act -- what the process is.

So, for instance, a court could say that only Congress is the body that can decide whether someone is fit for office as an insurrectionist or not. That would require Congress to pass a law barring someone from running for office.

Does it have to happen in every single state? And so, for instance, if Nevada or Ohio or any other state wishes to go through the same calculus, do they have to do it too? And these are all questions that sort of need to be figured out. And also, you know, what does it mean to support insurrectionist? Merely the fact that other folks have done it or have engaged in acts of insurrection, doesn't necessarily tie a candidate for office to that. So, it's very, very hard, John.

BERMAN: Yes. Somewhere along the line here, a court will have to rule definitively whether they think Donald Trump was an insurrectionist, and that is something, again, that will be controversial on its face.

I want to ask you about something else that's going to happen in a courtroom involving Donald Trump this week, which is that his three adult children are all scheduled to testify in the civil fraud lawsuit against Donald Trump, or he's already been found liable for fraud, but I think the order is Eric Trump, Donald Trump Jr., then Ivanka Trump. How is that going to play out and what's the significance there?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's hard to know how it's going to play out. Certainly, he's going to have things to say publicly about it. And an open question will be, how does do his statements get handled by the court? He has already made a number of statements over Truth Social and otherwise that had been held -- you know, gotten him sanctioned by the court. And I do wonder what will happen there. That's part one.

Part two is, does Ivanka Trump even testify? She -- just late last week, the court ruled that she had to but she's in a slightly different class than her brothers because the courts have found that the claims against her are too old.

[10:25:07]

And so maybe she may appeal the decision to have her come testify.

So, we haven't heard the end of this one either. I think there's probably going to be more litigation over the course of the week. But expect fireworks whenever the president and/or his sons are going to take the stand in New York.

BERMAN: Yes. Just so people know what they're seeing on the screen there beneath you has to do with the gag order in the federal case, Judge Chutkan has reinstated that gag order. There was a temporary pause on it while it was an appeal, but now she says it's back on. Any feelings on that, Elliot?

WILLIAMS: You know, typically, rulings are held or paused. If the party will be so hurt if the ruling stays in place that they'd be -- like, so, for instance, if you're ordered to bulldoze a building, they'll often pause it while you appeal it because, you know, you don't want your building you're building bulldozed, right?

What the judge had found here was that he's not -- the president isn't really suffering a harm if his statements are gagged. And the point was that the judicial system is so important, and it is important that prosecutors and jurors and witnesses and so on are not attacked, that it required forbidding the president from making further statements on Truth Social about the case.

BERMAN: Elliot Williams, always great to see you. Thank you so much for coming on, Counselor. Kate?

BOLDUAN: We have more on our breaking news coming up in the weeks- long auto strike. We're learning there is a deal on the table between General Motors and the UAW. The details of what they have agreed upon, we have more on that next.

And the landlord accused of stabbing and killing a six-year-old Palestinian American boy is expected to be arraigned today. The Justice Department is also now investigating the attack as a hate crime. More on what's expected.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]