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Israeli Airstrike Hits Gaza's Largest Refugee Camp; U.S. Secretary Of State Addresses Americans Trapped In Gaza; FBI Director Warns Of Rising Anti-Semitism; New York Governor Announces Person Of Interest Arrested At Cornell University; FBI And Homeland Security Issue Warnings On Domestic Threats. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 31, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:29]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Morning. Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar with Boris Sanchez here in Washington. Wolf Blitzer is in Tel Aviv, and we are tracking multiple breaking developments in Israel's war on Hamas. Right now, rescue efforts underway following an Israeli airstrike today on Gaza's largest refugee camp. A strike that the IDF says was ordered to take out a senior Hamas leader.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Reports are still coming in regarding the number of casualties there, but dozens have been confirmed dead. Many more injured. Those numbers, though, are expected to rise. Officials in Hamas-controlled Gaza say at least 20 homes were destroyed there. Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Just moments ago, I spoke with an IDF spokesperson who confirmed, confirmed that Israel was involved in that blast. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL RICHARD HECHT, INTERNATIONAL IDF SPOKESPERSON: We'll be coming out in the next, hopefully, hour with more data. But I can update you now that there was a very senior Hamas commander in that area. Sadly, he was hiding, again, as they do, behind the -- within civilians. And that's all I can say at this point. We're looking into it, and we'll be coming out with more data as we learn what happened there.

BLITZER: So, can you confirm it was an Israeli attack that destroyed a big chunk of that Jabalia refugee camp?

HECHT: Yes, I can. We, we were, were focused, again, --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And the fact that there.

HECHT: -- on a target, a senior commander, Wolf. And we'll be updating you with more data as the hour moves ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's get right to CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson. He's live near the Israel-Gaza border. Nic, what more are you learning about this latest incident inside Gaza at that refugee camp?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, according to a doctor in a nearby hospital, he said that he'd seen hundreds of casualties, dead and injured, brought into the hospital, that they were so overwhelmed that they were treating them in rooms, on the floors, in corridors, just overwhelmed by the level or the numbers of casualties that, that he's receiving.

This refugee camp, according to one of the principal UN agencies in Gaza, has a population of about 110,000 people. Very, very densely populated area. Perhaps one of the most densely populated parts of the Gaza Strip. The biggest refugee camp of the 8 different refugee camps inside of Gaza.

And this gets to the IDF's point here, Wolf. They describe this as a very complicated battle space. The spokesman there telling you they'll get back with more data points. One of those potential data points will be the possibility of tunnels in that area. The images show multiple impacts within this area that the local Hamas-controlled officials say destroyed 20 different homes in that area. But the image of devastation and the impact on the civilians in that area is huge.

And this is bound to continue to escalate. The international calls for Israel to get to a ceasefire, which we know the Prime Minister has said as recently as yesterday, is not going to happen. But for the IDF at the moment, this really does seem to be a situation, as they say, they've taken ownership of it and now its -- now more explanation is required and they're working on it, Wolf.

ROBERTSON: They certainly are. I was at that Jabalia refugee camp years ago. And I can confirm it's packed, packed with people, very intense. I assume you've been there as well, so you can confirm that as well.

[14:05:09]

Israelis say they are trying to avoid civilian casualties in Gaza, but this won't be an easy argument to make to the public, will it? Israel's going to get severely criticized, I assume.

ROBERTSON: It is. Israel's position on this is that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties, that Hamas, who they say hide behind the civilians, are responsible for the safety of civilians. This is why the IDF has been dropping leaflets in the area, in the north of Gaza and the center of Gaza, saying that this is now a battlefield and that people should leave. A journalist from Al Jazeera who lives in Gaza City, very close to the Jabalia refugee camp, yesterday on air spoke about her husband in the house, in the family home where she was receiving a phone call from the IDF saying that you need to move south, you need to get out of the area, it's unsafe. And he asked the person on the phone, well, where do I go to do that?

How do we do it? And I think this is the question that many Palestinians are facing at the moment. This is what we hear from others. They don't know the safe roads to get out of Gaza. And when this reporter's husband, she says, asked the IDF, well, how do we do it? The answer was, well, that's going to come from the local authorities. We can't tell you that. So, while there are these warnings, the warnings are not apparently doing a lot to provide the Gaza citizens with roadmaps, if you will, safe roadmaps. They're told that there is a humanitarian safe zone in the south of the Gaza Strip.

But what they're looking for is information that will get them there safely, times that they can get there safely, roads that they can use safely. And that's information that we're not aware that the IDF is able to communicate them or is trying to communicate to them. And that's what makes the situation in Gaza so desperate. The civilians are hugely afraid of these huge strikes that are happening around them and that they're getting caught up in. But they don't know how to get physically to these safe places, for many of them, at least.

BLIZTER: Yeah, important. Israel's military operations in Gaza now entering its 5th day, this new phase, the ground incursion, if you will. What are you seeing? What do we know about what's happening on the ground there today?

ROBERTSON: Yeah, it's very hard to find out precisely what's happening inside Gaza. The IDF has announced that it has had two fatalities so far. Two 1st sergeants, both 20 years old, were killed as part of these operations. It's very hard to understand in a detailed way what's happening on the ground. But from where we are here in Starot, and we've been further south along the border with Gaza today, and it's the same there, you hear the sounds of artillery here being fired into Gaza at the moment. We were hearing, particularly at dusk, multiple artillery rounds being fired into Gaza where we were further south along the border. And that seems to be the nature of the fight at the moment.

The troops on the ground calling in strikes against what they describe as Hamas strongholds. The air force here, the artillery, bringing firepower to bear on that. And the civilians clearly, as we've seen today, sometimes getting caught, -- sometimes feeling the brunt of that and getting caught up in it. But how, what type of progress the troops on the ground are making? How they're making that progress? How many troops are in there? How many tanks are in there? How many armored fighting vehicles? Very hard to know.

What I can say is what we saw this evening, not far from the border with Gaza as night was falling, was another column of armored vehicles forming up. We don't know where they were going to go, but for all intents and purposes, they looked like they were forming up to provide reinforcements for the troops already inside Gaza, Wolf.

BLITZER: And Nic, before I let you go, very quickly, you're there in Sderot, not far from Gaza, in Israel. What's it like where you are right now? Are there still rockets or anything like that coming into where you are? ROBERTSON: We took a rocket alarm here earlier today. Dive took cover,

as people always do here. And there have been other reports, -- other reports of rockets fired out from Gaza. But this location here, so close to the Gaza Strip, about a mile away where we are at here, yes, it's had rounds coming in. I have to say, though, compared to a week ago, compared to 2 weeks ago, the number of rockets in the volleys is way down. It's a couple of rockets at a time. You go back a few days and a few weeks, we were talking perhaps 10, perhaps a couple of dozen further back.

[14:10:09]

BLITZER: All right, Nick, stay safe over there in Sderot. Nic Robertson reporting for us. I want to talk a little bit more about Israel's military operations in Gaza. Joining us now, retired U.S. Army Major General Dana Pitard. General, thank you so much for joining us. First of all, what's your take on this Israeli airstrike hitting Gaza's largest refugee camp earlier today?

MAJ. GEN DANA PITTARD, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, good evening, Wolf. Very, very difficult and complex. I've been in a strike cell making that kind of a call against a high-value target in a populated area. You know, Israeli forces are extremely good, but in something like this, sometimes it may call for tactical and operational patience. Once you have a target, then you track that target. You track them with your manned and unmanned aerial equipment and all sorts of different systems and sensors. And maybe that was the only shot they had, and they had to take it.

So, it's a difficult call to do. But I've seen it where once we have that high-value target, we're able to then track that target to a location away from a populated area, because they'll make a mistake at some point. But let's remember, Hamas has put the Palestinian people in jeopardy by having leaders hide behind innocent civilians.

BLITZER: Is that what the U.S. would do if there was a target, let's say an aA-Qaeda or an ISIS target, a high commander, in a very populated refugee camp with a lot of men, women, and children all over the place? Would the U.S. do what the Israelis clearly did now? They've confirmed it. The IDF spokesperson confirmed it to us just a little while ago that this was an Israeli operation targeting this Hamas commander. But would the U.S. go and bomb a situation like that with a lot of civilians in the area, even if there was a high-value target there?

PITTARD: I would think not, but it still depends on the target. It depends on how, how high up that target is, of course. But there's a difference also when you have U.S. aircraft with precision bombing who are very, very good in getting precision targets. But again, you try as hard as you can not to have any civilian casualties. So, most likely that decision would be no, but it still depends on that target. If that's the only shot you have, you've got to make a decision.

BLITZER: And you think the U.S. would have made a similar decision or not? PITTARD: I think not, because of, as I mentioned before, tactical and

operational patience. The idea that once you have the target, then you track the target with your different sensors and systems and wait for that target to move out of the populated area.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Yep.

PITTARD: -- or into a spot where you can minimize casualties.

BLITZER: Because those of us who have been to that Jabalia refugee camp know it's packed, packed with people all over the place. Innocent civilians, men, women, and children, who just are there, they're stuck there. They really can't go anyplace else. And so, it's obviously a very, very difficult decision for any military to make, even if there's an extremely high-value Hamas target there, right?

PITTARD: I agree, Wolf. Let's remember, Hamas leadership has put their own people in jeopardy by trying to hide behind them in a densely populated refugee camp.

BLITZER: Yeah, it's an awful situation indeed. Major General Dana Pitar, thank you so much for joining us as usual. And as the conflict in the Middle East clearly intensifies, the rise in hate at home in the United States is very tangible. The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security are issuing new warnings about domestic threats, specifically against the Jewish, Muslim, and Arab American communities in the U.S. We'll have much more on that. That's just ahead.

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[14:15:01]

BLITZER: Right now, rescue efforts are underway following an Israeli airstrike earlier in the day on Gaza's largest refugee camp. A strike the IDF says was ordered to try to take out a senior Hamas commander. Joining us now is Michael Oren. He served as Israel's ambassador to the United States. Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us. I want to ask you first of all about this blast at the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza. That's Gaza's largest refugee camp. An IDF spokesperson just a little while ago confirmed to us here on CNN that it was an Israeli airstrike that caused this.

He said Israel hit the camp as it was targeting a senior Hamas commander. There's likely, as you well know, going to be huge worldwide backlash against Israel as a result of this because of the dozens of civilians who were killed in the process. How do you see Israel responding to this on a diplomatic level?

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well, first of all, good to be with you. And it's not good to hear about this. No one here wants to see innocent Palestinians hurt, suffering, killed, certainly. But the army is going to respond the way it always has responded. The state of Israel is going to respond the way it always has. It says these deaths are certainly, certainly tragic, but they're not the fault of Israel. Israel has asked and urged the civilian population to leave that area, to flee to the south, away from the battle area. We've had reports of Hamas preventing the flight of civilians to safety, often at gunpoint.

It's keeping great numbers of Palestinian civilians at the hospitals. And under those hospitals, you know, there are the headquarters -- of Hamas. And so, these citizens should not have been there. And if they're in around the headquarters of a Hamas base, then the responsibility for those deaths lies solely with Hamas.

[14:20:00]

BLITZER: But if that senior Hamas commander, Ambassador, was there in the midst of this heavily populated refugee camp, the largest Palestinian refugee camp, the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza, even if he was there, is it wise for the Israelis to go after this individual knowing that in the process, dozens of innocent Palestinians, men, women, and children would be killed?

OREN: Listen, I don't have all the details of this. Nobody does. I was just trying to look at some of the statistics about the number of people that were reportedly hurt or killed, and they vary, they vary widely according to numerous sources, whether you're looking at Arab sources or Western sources. But having said that, we also don't know whether this commander was alone or was in a command center. And if it's a command center that is directing Hamas terrorists to shoot at our troops and kill our troops, then the Israeli generals, the Israeli commanders, probably had very little choice but to make that call.

BLITZER: Let me move on to another sensitive issue. Earlier today, the US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, gave senators in Washington an update on the hundreds of Americans who are still trapped in Gaza right now. I want to play this clip. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have about 400 American citizens and their family members, so it's roughly 1,000 people who are stuck in Gaza and want to get out. I'm focused on this intensely. My entire department is as well, both in the region and here. We're working with various parties to try to facilitate their departure from Gaza. The impediment is simple, it's Hamas. We've not yet found a way to get them out by whatever, through whatever place and by whatever means that Hamas is not blocking. But we're working that with intermediaries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Ambassador, what measures are not being done that should be done to try to get those US citizens, those Americans, out of Gaza right now?

OREN: Well, I think, first of all, before answering that, it bears saying, why is Hamas being the impediment? It's for the same reason Hamas is keeping civilians around its headquarters in Jabalia refugee camp. They're human shields. So, Hamas realizes that having American citizens in Gaza is a great human shield. And what Hamas wants is for the United States to declare a ceasefire, try to impose a ceasefire, because a ceasefire simply means the Hamas wins the war and basically Israel dies.

We won't be able to restore our security in any way. So, they're the -- they're in many ways, the ultimate human shields. The hostages are human shields as well. So, it'd be the best, I think the best route that the United States to do it, I think it's probably above my pay grade to give advice at this stage to Secretary of State Blinken, would be to put immense pressure on Qatar and say, you know, Qatar is, you know, a funder and backer of Hamas. Many Hamas senior commanders live in Qatar. The United States has influence over Qatar, has a huge naval base there and great educational and business interests. Say to the Qataris, we want these Americans out or there's going to be consequences for our relationship.

BLITZER: Is there anything realistic that Israel could do to help get these, let's say, a thousand Americans out of Gaza? Could Israel, for example, open up a border crossing and allow them to come into Israel and then come back to the United States from Israel?

OREN: It's a very good question. It's a hard one because I'm, for about a year and a half during my time in government, I was in charge of Gaza, and I was in charge of the border crossings. One of them during my time was knocked out, Kissufim. Another border crossing, Erez, has been knocked out by Hamas during this fighting. And the biggest border crossing is the ironically named Vineyard of Peace, Kerem Shalom, which was shelled and taken over by Hamas terrorists.

So even physically, I don't know how this could be done on our side of the border. Obviously, the only place it could be done would be on the Egyptian crossing at Rafah. And I think the Egyptians, I can't understand why the Egyptians would not want to coordinate with the United States on this. They're very sensitive about letting Palestinians, even 1 Palestinian into Sinai, but certainly the United States has leverage over Egypt as well.

With us, it's not a matter of leverage. With us, it's a matter of simply, there's no place to cross and you can't ask Israelis to go down and risk their lives under fire to try to reopen one of those border crossings.

BLITZER: Ambassador Michael Oren, thanks as usual for joining us.

OREN: Thank you Wolf.

BLITZER: And we'll be right back with more news.

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[14:25:01]

BLITZER: New York Governor Kathy Hochul says law enforcement has taken into custody a person of interest in the online anti-Semitic threats over at Cornell University in New York State. The individual is currently being questioned by state police. Meanwhile, state troopers are camped outside the school's Jewish Center for Living that was targeted in those social media posts where anonymous users threatened to shoot or attack Jewish students at Cornell University.

And also, today up on Capitol Hill, FBI Director Christopher Wray warned lawmakers that anti-Semitism is reaching what he called historic levels in the United States. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: The Jewish community is targeted by terrorists really across the spectrum. Homegrown violent extremists, foreign terrorist organizations, both Sunni and Shia, domestic violent extremists. And in fact, our statistics would indicate that for a group that represents only about 2.4% of the American population.