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Trump Jr. Set to Testify in New York; Interview With Former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett; Some Americans Now Able to Leave Gaza. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 01, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:59]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean alongside Boris Sanchez here in Washington, D.C.

And for the first time since the Hamas terror attack on Israel, a small number of civilians are being allowed to leave Gaza and escape the several hundred strikes a day by Israel on Hamas targets. Egyptian state-affiliated media reports the first group of foreign passport holders has arrived into Egypt through the Rafah Border Crossing.

And sources are telling CNN the opening is the result of a deal mediated by Qatar among Israel, Hamas and Egypt. A senior U.S. official says this deal could ultimately lead to about 7,000 people allowed to cross, stressing that total, though, is far from exact.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And just minutes ago, President Biden posted on social media that some American citizens are going to be among those departing Gaza as soon as today. He hailed U.S. leadership in efforts to help some Gazans and foreign nationals leave amid what is obviously an escalating ground offensive in the north of Gaza.

So far, we have we should point out no hostages have been included in this deal. That's according to sources that have spoken to CNN. All of that is taking place in the southern part of the country -- or, rather, the territory in Gaza.

In the north, for the second day in a row, a massive explosion has rocked the largest refugee camp in Gaza, in Jabalia. Israel is receiving widespread condemnation for this attack on the camp that took place yesterday. The IDF, though, they argue that it was a legitimate target because they were able to kill a senior Hamas commander in this attack.

Let's discuss with our reporters. We have CNN's M.J. Lee, who's at the White House. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Ashkelon, Israel.

But we're going to start with CNN's Melissa Bell, who's live for us in Egypt.

Melissa, what is happening at that Rafah Border Crossing right now, and how many people have been able to get out of Gaza?

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're just waiting for the confirmation the exact numbers, but we understand, Boris, that it may be several hundred already, has yet to be confirmed.

And we're beginning to get an idea of who some of these people are. Four Italian nationals have definitely crossed already, all aid workers, five French nationals.

And it really is the consular services of many different countries that are there on the other side, the Egyptian side, waiting for these, the first few civilians to be allowed out after all these times -- all this time, consular services from Austria, Indonesia, Japan, of course, the United States as well, Jordan, a lot of foreign nationals that were trapped inside.

And then, as we understand, they will be allowed as part of this very comprehensive deal to get out over the course of the next few days. Of course, logistically that takes some time. There is a list that's been put up, and those families on the other side, on the Gazan side, are waiting to see when they can get through.

And, of course, some of them will be travelling without documents, so quite a complicated logistical process in terms of getting them out. And I think it's important to point out that, beyond the civilians, the foreign nationals and the dual nationals that have started to make their way out amongst those civilians are also some of the most wounded Palestinians, Boris, the very first to be allowed to leave the Gaza Strip since Israel announced the total siege of the enclave.

We expect that over the course of the day 81 of those Palestinians will have been taken to the field hospital that Egypt has constructed about nine miles away from the crossing. The most severely wounded, these are people who need immediate surgery, but definitely some hope there that at long last this crossing is open, at least to the foreign nationals and the most severely wounded, of course, a glimmer of hope for many, and yet a drop in the ocean when you consider the number of people still stuck inside and the conditions, Boris, under which they remain trapped.

DEAN: All right, Melissa Bell for us in Egypt, thanks so much.

And let's go now to Jeremy Diamond, who's in Ashkelon.

Jeremy, there's been another massive explosion at the Jabalia refugee camp, which is Gaza's largest, that the IDF said it bombed yesterday when it was targeting a senior Hamas commander. We know more than 100 likely were killed or wounded.

[13:05:03]

What more can you tell us about what's happening there today?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you mentioned, this is the second large blast to hit the Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza.

And Jabalia is the largest refugee camp in Gaza, taking care of refugees stemming from the 1948 war, who were displaced from that time. And, again, the images that we're seeing of the destruction today are quite similar to those that we saw yesterday, so a second devastating blast hitting that camp in as many days, a very densely populated area.

As of yet, the IDF has yet to confirm whether this blast was caused by one of its airstrikes. Yesterday, they did take responsibility for that enormous blast that left a massive crater in Jabalia. They said yesterday that they were targeting a senior Hamas commander, who they said was responsible in part for those October 7 terrorist attacks.

And they also said that he was commanding the forces of Hamas in the Northern Gaza Strip who are fighting IDF forces. The Israeli military, effectively, we're waiting to still hear from them whether or not this was -- they were responsible for this strike.

SANCHEZ: Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for that.

Let's go to the White House now, because, M.J., President Biden just wrote on social media that Americans will be getting out as soon as today. What more can you tell us about that and about how this deal was brokered?

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, these negotiations have been ongoing for weeks. And, needless to say, they have been incredibly complicated.

One thing that a senior U.S. official told me earlier today was that something that Hamas had asked for was for some of its own fighters to be released from Gaza and into Egypt as a part of the group of injured people that are being released and that that demand had been rejected.

And one other complicating factor too, of course, is from the Egyptian side, that Egyptian authorities are very keenly set on making sure that they can basically thoroughly vet and look into every single person that is now going to be entering their country.

Now, ultimately, if all goes well, if all goes according to plan, and that is a big if right now, given the fluidity of the situation, U.S. officials do believe that thousands of people, upwards of 5,000 people, could ultimately end up leaving Gaza and get into Egypt.

Remember, the State Department has said that there are some 400 American citizens in the region, and that there are an additional 5,000 foreign nationals as well. So this is an incredibly complicated and complex situation, and we do expect that this process is going to take stage over the course of several days, possibly, with some 500 people potentially being processed today and upwards of 1,000 people being processed starting perhaps tomorrow.

DEAN: And, M.J., I want to ask you too about some additional reporting. You're learning there's this intensifying concern among Biden officials about Israel losing some worldwide support as we see more civilians killed.

What more can you tell us about that? LEE: Yes, President Biden and his top officials have been very clear

from the very beginning of this attack beginning on Israel that Israel really has a right to defend itself.

But they have also been insistent that they must conduct itself following the laws of war, that they have to minimize civilian casualties. But the challenge that the administration is facing now is that, as these strikes, IDF strikes, are targeting some of these civilian-heavy areas, those questions about whether Israel is actually adhering to that principle, they are really very much being challenged.

We know that, after the strike yesterday, for example, at the White House press briefing, a question that John Kirby, the White House spokesperson, got a lot was whether the U.S. still believes that Israel is trying to minimize civilian casualties. And what he said was that he certainly wouldn't deny that civilians are dying, but that they do believe that Israel is trying to make an effort to minimize civilian deaths.

But the problem I think right now is that many people would look at some of these scenes coming out of Gaza, and they would disagree with that assessment that Israel is making a real effort to minimize civilian casualties.

I will also say that there is a recognition within the Biden administration that support for Israel could begin to erode as this conflict drags on and you start to see more and more civilian deaths in the region. So that is something that officials here are contending with as well.

SANCHEZ: It is a significant question.

M.J. Lee, thank you so much for that reporting.

Let's pose that question and more with former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett. He also served in an elite unit of the Israel Defense Forces and recently enlisted in the IDF reserves.

[13:10:02]

Mr. Bennett, thank you so much for sharing part of your day with us.

And let's start with the deal that Qatar brokered to open that Rafah Crossing to some Palestinians and foreign nationals. Is it your understanding that the IDF has effectively agreed to a cease-fire around the Rafah area of Gaza as part of the deal?

NAFTALI BENNETT, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Israel does not target the citizens who are moving away from harm's way.

In fact, Israel has allowed 800,000 Gazans to move away, according to laws of war, from Northern Gaza to Southern Gaza and also from Gaza through Rafah into Egypt. So, whenever we're talking about human beings, we bend over backward to allow them into safe havens. SANCHEZ: Would you like to see the arrangement that's in place right

now around that crossing extended and perhaps widened to allow more Palestinians to leave Gaza?

BENNETT: We will not prevent anyone from leaving Gaza, assuming it's a civilian, and not a terrorist or a terrorist taking a hostage.

So, given the right supervision, we obviously don't want to see civilians unnecessarily hurt.

SANCHEZ: Well, on that note, sir, yesterday it appears that hundreds of civilians were killed or wounded by the FDA strike on that Jabalia refugee camp.

Does Israel risk losing support within the United States with that kind of attack?

BENNETT: We're attacking Hamas.

We're doing everything to prevent civilian casualties. Hamas is doing everything to increase civilian casualties. So, the death in Gaza is fully Hamas' responsibility.

I also want to acknowledge that, right now, there's no more civilians left. 230 Israelis, including babies, like Ariel (ph), who's 9 months old, 9-month-old baby, and Fir (ph), another 9-month-old baby. They are currently still being held hostage by Hamas. I cannot understand how every interview in the world doesn't start with the first question: Why is Hamas not releasing babies, girls, boys that are held hostage, which breaks all the rules of war.

That's the real question.

SANCHEZ: "The New York Times" is reporting that there's concern in the White House over whether Israel has a long-term plan for Gaza, for what happens if the IDF succeeds in eradicating Hamas and how it's going to deal with a vacuum that's created by that.

How confident are you that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, your successor, has a plan to fill that vacuum?

BENNETT: Well, we're talking about right now Hamas, which is pure evil, that sent thousands, roughly 3,000, terrorists into our homes to kill, rape, dismember and burn whole families.

So the main goal is to eradicate and eliminate Hamas. And we're going to continue as long as it takes, even if it takes years. We're going to continue. Regarding the day after, it's not that complicated. You can have many different mechanisms. For example, once Hamas is eradicated, you can have elections, choose a local leadership.

There's many solutions, just like after Nazi Germany was eradicated, a new Germany appeared. So that is highly solvable. But the main issue is to stay the course until we kill or expel all Hamas terrorists.

SANCHEZ: Respectfully, sir, I think there are a lot of experts that would disagree with you in the thinking that it would be a solvable situation, because, as we have seen with the United States in Iraq and Afghanistan, after terrorist networks there were eradicated, a long- term military occupation often leads to more civilian loss of life.

That means more extremism, more terrorists. You're not concerned that eradicating Hamas would not lead to perhaps another terrorist network fighting for the Palestinian cause to take effect?

BENNETT: Of course we are.

And we're thinking about that as well. But, right now, when you have the purest form of evil, when you have a barbaric, savage regime, there's no question whatsoever you need to eradicate it. Israel, for the past 17 years, contained Hamas and said, we can live side by side with them. They have an opportunity to create Singapore in the Middle East.

There's no easy solutions. But, right now, the main thing for any decent-hearted person watching this right now is to ensure that Israel can continue the course, complete the course of eradicating Hamas from the face of Earth.

[13:15:13]

SANCHEZ: So, one of Israel's neighbors, Jordan, announced today that it would immediately recall its ambassador. They want a cease-fire.

They are concerned about the loss of collateral civilian life. What's your response to them recalling the ambassador? And are you concerned that normalized relations with Jordan is at -- are at risk?

BENNETT: Let's put it this way.

Jordan depends on Israel more than Israel depends on Jordan. And the fact that certain regimes are weak and do these sorts of actions, it doesn't really move me. We have to do what we have to do to ensure our future. And this war is not only between Israel and Hamas. It's a war between radical Islamic savagery of Middle Ages and the free world.

We're fighting the world's battle. If we don't win, if the world tries to stop us, and, God forbid, succeeds, you're going to see the same scenes in New York City, in London and Madrid. And I know this because, last time, when the Palestinian terrorists came up with a start-up, which was called suicide bombing, it started against Israelis, but it continued in America with 9/11 and then Madrid and then London.

So the world should stand behind Israel, give us our backing, so we can defeat radical Islam, and it doesn't rear its very ugly head.

SANCHEZ: Former Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, we appreciate your time and perspective. Thanks.

BENNETT: Thank you very much.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Still to come on NEWS CENTRAL: Donald Trump Jr. could take the stand

soon in the civil fraud trial against him, his father and the entire Trump family business. What this could mean for the future of the Trump Organization.

Plus, a busy day on Capitol Hill, and, on the agenda, votes to censure two lawmakers and expel another. We have a live update coming in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:23]

DEAN: In New York right now, we're waiting to see if Donald Trump Jr. will take the stand in the $250 million civil fraud trial against the Trump family and their company.

Don Jr. and his brother Eric are accused of knowingly participating in a scheme to boost their father's net worth.

CNN national correspondent Brynn Gingras is joining us now from outside the courthouse in New York.

Brynn, do we know when he might take the stand or what kind of questions he might face?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica, we're in a lunch break right now for this civil trial, but I can tell you that we actually did just see Don Jr. walk up the stairs right here behind me into the courtroom.

It's unclear if we will actually get to his testimony today because there's a currently an expert witness from the state that's on the stand being cross-examined, and the defense said it'll take about three hours, about an hour into that. So we will see if we actually get to Don Jr.

But, listen, when he does take the stand, whether it be today or tomorrow, we are expecting him to answer questions in regards to the preparation of those financial statements. What part did he play? Did he have any involvement in overvaluating assets of the Trump Organization and their father's net worth, as you just explained?

And, listen, if you just look back to last year and the deposition that he gave under oath to the attorney general, it gives you some sort of inkling as to how he might testify when he does take the stand. He basically distances himself from the preparation of those financial statements, saying, listen, I have a degree in business, but I rely on my accountants, I rely on my legal team to prepare these statements, and then I sign off on them.

In that deposition, he said this -- quote -- "I had no real involvement in the preparation of the statement of financial condition and don't really remember ever working on it with anyone."

So we will see if he sort of sticks to that when he actually does take the stand. Up next after him will be his brother Eric Trump. Obviously, he and Don Jr. had more expanded roles in Trump Organization once their father went into the Oval Office. So, there will be a lot of questions for those two, especially in regards to this case, particularly also because they are defendants in this case as well.

Their father, though, not in court today, Jessica, and not expected to be in court for either of their testimony.

DEAN: Yes, but President Trump, Brynn, has been -- hasn't been quiet on social media.

He posted on TRUTH Social. That post is filled with some colorful language, I guess you could say. Does that violate his gag order in this case?

GINGRAS: Yes, I mean, listen the judge basically made it clear in that gag order that the president couldn't speak ill of anyone on his team.

Trump has been very vocal about this case, the attorney general, the judge. But the judge does seem to get really, really persistent about that gag order when he speaks ill about particularly his clerk. So we haven't heard from the judge that he is taking that TRUTH Social post that he had anything more than what it was.

But, certainly, it doesn't seem that Donald Trump will stop talking about this trial, just as he does when he does appear in court. And I -- it's good to point out here that we are expecting him to testify, take the stand next week -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Brynn Gingras for us in New York City, thanks so much for that update -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: We want to give you a live look at Gaza right now.

And you notice how dark it is, barely a light anywhere in that frame, just after 7:00 p.m. local time. We're obviously going to keep an eye on the situation.

And, up next, we're going to speak to the friend of a Palestinian- American family stuck inside the enclave still desperately trying to get out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:36]

DEAN: Right now in Gaza, thousands of foreign nationals and injured Palestinians are desperate to exit through the Rafah Crossing into Egypt.

After a deal mediated by Qatar, several hundred have reportedly made it out today. Among those still stranded, approximately 400 Americans and their families. President Biden says some U.S. citizens could be leaving Gaza today, this after the stranded Americans began receiving official word from the State Department about when they will be allowed to get out.

And we're joined now by Sammy Nabulsi. He's an attorney for a Massachusetts family of three.