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State Dept: Some U.S. Citizens Have Exited Gaza And Are In Egypt; IDF Confirms Second Blast At Refugee Camp Was From Israeli Airstrike; Donald Trump Jr. is On The Stand To Testify In The Civil Fraud Trial Against Him, His Family, And Their Company; House To Take Up Censure Votes Against Reps. Greene, Tlaib. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 01, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: CNN has received confirmation two American doctors, Ramona Okumura and Barbara Zind, were among the several hundred who were allowed to enter Egypt today through the Rafah Crossing.

MATTHEW MILLER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: An initial group of foreign nationals, including U.S. citizens, departed Gaza through Rafah today, and we expect exits of U.S. citizens and foreign nationals to continue over the next several days.

In the past 24 hours, we have informed U.S. citizens and their family - and family members with whom we are in contact that they will be assigned specific departure dates. We have asked them to continue to monitor their email regularly over the next 24 to 72 hours for specific instructions about how to exit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: It is three o'clock here in Washington, D.C. We're going to begin this hour with CNN International Diplomatic Editor, Nic Robertson. He's in Sderot, Israel.

Nic, give us the latest on what the IDF says happened today at the refugee camp.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, they said they had precise intelligence which allowed them to target a Hamas terror cell that was hiding out in the Jabalia refugee camp in the Fallujah neighborhood, and it was using that precise intelligence that they targeted them, eliminating them.

They point out that Hamas has made a habit, if you will. It intentionally hides behind civilians, hides in tunnels that are underneath and amongst the civilian housing. And the IDF also points out that they have been warning the citizens of northern Gaza to move south, although many of those citizens say they don't know how, they don't know where it's safe to go. We know that the commander of the forces in northern Gaza at the moment, the commander of IDF forces said that they are in the - at the gates of Gaza. And the Defense Minister described some very intense urban conflict. But the second strike on the Jabalia camp in two days, precisely

targeted with precise intelligence is what the IDF is saying.

DEAN: All right. Nic Robertson for us in Israel, thanks so much.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Let's go now to Cairo, Egypt with CNN's Melissa Bell because she's been tracking those that were able to get out of Gaza through the Rafah Crossing. Melissa, tell us about them.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, that news that a couple of Americans are amongst those just out of the Rafah Crossing and now safely in Egypt, extraordinary news. It is on top of the 361 foreign nationals that we understood had made it through the Rafah Crossing and to this side of the border. And they include British, French, Italian, Saudi, Jordanian nationals, Austrian, Australian as well.

Many of them now on their way here to Cairo and that is extraordinary news. First of all, because it was really unexpected. These are negotiations that have been going on behind the scene. I think it's important to make it explicit that we're not talking here about the negotiations about the hostages that are being held by Hamas. These were very specific negotiations about the many thousands of foreign and dual nationality citizens that have been trapped in Gaza ever since this war began.

So that first group has now come out and that is amazing news. As you mentioned a moment ago, there will be many more that come out. We understand all of them will come out and they will be told over the course of the coming days how that is to function.

These have been incredibly complex negotiations between Hamas, Israel, the United States, Qatar. And what they do show us is that those talks for all the difficulties involved are functioning. And that is, of course, amazing news for the foreign nationals and their families that have been watching anxiously to see what was going to happen with regard to their ability to leave the Gaza Strip.

And again, it has taken so long for this to happen in such difficult conditions that that is a tremendous sigh of relief that they will be heaving tonight. But then there is also, as part of this deal, the first Palestinians who've come through the Rafah Crossing, 81 of them came out today and have been taken to local hospitals or to the field hospital that's been set up nearby.

And what we're talking about here, Jessica and Boris, are the very most severely wounded. So these are people who need immediate surgical intervention. And what we understand is that there will be more to come. But again, very difficult negotiations, very opaque negotiations. We really had no advanced warning of this until the Rafah Crossing was finally opened today to those able to come out. It's also, by the way, the only gate through which aid can get in and we've been hearing that 20 more aid trucks have managed to made their - make their way in to the Palestinians that so desperately need that aid still. Jessica?

SANCHEZ: Melissa Bell from Egypt, thank you so much. DEAN: And we are joined now by IDF International Spokesperson, Lt.

Col. Jonathan Conricus.

Lieutenant Colonel, great to have you here with us. Thanks for making time.

[15:05:01]

I want to start with that second IDF airstrike on Jabalia today. IDF says Hamas terrorists were eliminated in that strike. Can you tell us more specifically about who or what that strike was targeting?

LT. COL. JONATHAN CONRICUS, IDF INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Hi, thank you for having me again.

Listen, Jabalia is a Hamas stronghold. Think of it not as a regular village or a part of Gaza. Think of it as an area which is totally - which Hamas has total control over both above ground and underground. Think of it as a military compound that is full of Hamas operatives. And now add to that, that we have our troops on the ground fighting those terrorists above ground and below ground.

And then you can understand that it is a dynamic situation where we constantly are seeking the enemy. And whenever we understand where the enemy is and how we can get to him, we attack them either from the ground or using aerial strikes. It's an ongoing battle in Jabalia and in other locations. We are very committed to finding Hamas operatives that are hiding underground beneath the civilians. We will get to them and we will dismantle their infrastructure in Jabalia and elsewhere.

DEAN: And can you tell us any more specifically about what the - who or what the - or who the second strike was targeting. And then also this previous strike yesterday that you - the IDF has said killed a senior Hamas commander, Ibrahim Biari. Will you be able to share more evidence about his killing?

CONRICUS: Beyond the fact that he is dead and the deeds that he did when he was still alive, that he was a known terrorist, that he was vital in planning and executing the October 7th attack, that he had Israeli blood on his hands going back from 2004, no. He is dead. We know that at the very high level of certainty. I know that Hamas are claiming differently, but Hamas is a terrorist organization that lie anytime they open their mouth. So I wouldn't lend them any credibility at all.

Together with Biari, this Hamas combatant commander, dozens of Hamas operatives also died in a vast tunnel complex that was underneath the ground there. And we will - that you're referring to a second strike. I think a more correct depiction of it would be that there's ongoing fighting. It's not quiet and then all of a sudden there's a strike, no.

There is ongoing fighting because we are fighting an enemy that is embedded in each and every house. There's tunnels everywhere, and it's an active combat zone. This is a Hamas stronghold. It's not a refugee camp. It is a Hamas stronghold where we are in there, we are fighting and we are doing that because we understand that in order to eradicate Hamas and make sure that this never happens again, that October 7th never happens again, we understand that we have to go where Hamas is and take them out.

DEAN: And do you plan at any point to share any more intel about - you're explaining what you're - you all believe is this Hamas stronghold there at this refugee camp. Do you intend to release any intel moving forward on that?

CONRICUS: We released intel yesterday, which had both an aerial map of other compounds, military compounds belonging to Hamas in Jabalia, both exit shafts of tunnels, training areas, and places, different houses that look civilian but aren't civilian, that are in fact Hamas combat positions from where they are firing anti-tank missiles and deploying troops. That was released already yesterday, perhaps a bit overshadowed by the event of the targeting of that Hamas combatant commander. We've done it in the past and I'm sure that we will do it again.

But the really important thing to understand here is that we're talking about a Hamas compound. This is an area that they have fortified. It is full of Hamas operatives above and below ground. That's why we're there, and that's why we're fighting.

And the IDF spokesman, your colleague Daniel Hagari, just announced that ground forces had broken through Hamas' front lines in northern Gaza. I want to ask you what this means for the 200 hostages still being held by Hamas. And this is how we got here, Hamas did attack Israel and take these hostages. What do you know about these 200 hostages, and what does this newest information mean?

CONRICUS: Yes, unfortunately, sadly, it's 240 hostages that are being held by Hamas. Israeli nationals and other nationalities, many of them Americans and from Western countries, they are being held by Hamas, probably underground in Gaza.

[15:10:05]

We are hard at work collecting every piece of intelligence, including new intelligence that is generated on the ground by the ground activity of our troops. And just as we were able to rescue one hostage, Private Ori Megidish, he was rescued a few days ago. We are hard at work and very committed to getting all of our people back. Hamas bears responsibility for this atrocity, just like all of the other atrocities that they did on October 7th. We hold them accountable. The best thing for them, if they want to save themselves, would be to hand over the hostages unconditionally. That would save a lot of lives. If that won't happen, we will do it.

DEAN: All right. Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus, thanks so much.

CONRICUS: Thank you for having me.

SANCHEZ: Let's dig deeper on some of these angles with our panel. We have CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kimberly Dozier and retired Brig. Gen. Peter Zwack with us. He's also a Global Fellow at the Wilson Center. I want to start with you, Kim, because something that Lt. Col.

Jonathan Conricus just said stood out to me, and it's the characterization of the Jabalia refugee camp. It's described as a refugee camp. We've learned that somewhere around hundreds of civilians were either wounded or killed there in this first attack yesterday, perhaps many more in the second strike.

But the Lieutenant Colonel, the IDF spokesperson, he describes it as a Hamas stronghold, as a legitimate military target. How do you see that?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, as U.S. intelligence will tell you, Hamas is riddled throughout the Gaza Strip in civilian areas, and they put their facilities, their headquarters, their weaponry underneath and next to civilian homes. In terms of the refugee camp description, a little bit about Palestinian geography in those territories, the refugee camps were established decades ago.

So now if you see the pictures of the before and the after, it's a breeze block built neighborhood of standing houses. In terms of this particular strike, I've been trying to find out from Israeli sources, was this the battle damage that you expected when the strike was approved. And what they're trying to figure out is the tunnel network they were hitting: was it bigger than they expected, was it not very well supported such that once it got taken out, the buildings above collapsed, was that more than they were anticipating in terms of civilian casualties.

I haven't been able to get an answer, but the Palestinian people, one of the most highly educated on the planet and one of the most savvy in terms of media, and you've got the aid workers there, these images of everything that happens are being seen throughout the Arab world, making people angry, and that's what Hamas surely planned all along.

DEAN: And General, kind of piggybacking off of Kim's comment just there, we know from reporting from our White House colleagues, our colleagues that cover the White House, there is intensifying concern within the Biden administration that Israel may begin to lose some support if these images of these civilians dying, like what we've seen out of Jabalia, continue and are disseminated on social media and across the world. What do you make of that?

And as Kim was just explaining, with Hamas so intertwined with civilians there in Gaza, what else can be done to minimize the death and destruction to civilians?

BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I think you've just hit the fundamental question. Hamas, who's already proven by their horrific actions on the 7th of October, will go to any measure to use the population around them for cover, for concealment, put their communications in their tunnels and then with that hamstring, any IDF major action against it by going to the media and saying, look at this, and so it's hard.

I think the Israelis are - urban terrain is the hardest, most complex, most brutal. It's fought over the backs of civilians, and they're dealing with that right now. Clearly, a lot of reconnaissance going on. We don't see the ground fight.

[15:15:02]

And if the Israeli special operations have been able to target some of these things. But no, Hamas has proven, as other urban fighters, that you work with the population, you use them as a shield. I imagine a key aspect of this is how can the Israelis separate the population who is being cynically used by Hamas. This is hard. It's going to continue. It's going to be brutal. And as many have said, Israel does have an obligation, and they speak to that, to minimize where possible civilian casualties Hamas couldn't care in the least.

Kim, I wanted to ask about the deal that was struck to open the Rafah Crossing to allow certain Palestinians and foreign nationals out of the enclave. Obviously that was a deal that was brokered by Qatar, which has relationships with the United States, with Hamas. Does that deal give you some hope that we're moving toward a closer resolution for the hostages that are being held by Hamas?

DOZIER: I don't think that one has much to do with the other. There was a lot of pressure on opening that border to get supplies in, and the Israeli defense forces have reported today to the media that supplies are currently being stolen by Hamas. So perhaps that's one of the reasons they cooperated.

From the Israeli point of view, they wanted to make sure that some sort of technology improved way to check the trucks coming in was installed. I don't know if it was installed, but I know that a major concern and something that was taking a long time checking all those trucks was that they needed to be manually checked because the devices at that border crossing are very, very outdated and the Israelis are worried about weapons getting smuggled in.

DEAN: All right. Kim Dozier and Gen. Peter Zwack, we're going to leave it there. Thank you both for your analysis there. We appreciate it.

ZWACK: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: We do have some breaking news that we want to get to. The eldest son of Donald Trump, Donald Trump Jr. is now testifying. He has taken the stand in the civil fraud trial against him, his family and their company.

DEAN: Well, let's take you now to CNN National Correspondent, Brynn Gingras. She's joining us live from outside the courthouse in New York.

Brynn, what do you know right now?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hey, Jessica and Boris.

So he has been called to the stand. Before he actually went into the witness box, he sat at the defendant's table. Some pictures were taken. He made a joke that he should have worn makeup, and then he was called as a - to the witness stand as a defendant in this civil fraud trial.

So far, we're getting some updates from inside the courtroom from our colleagues, but one of the questions that was asked was basically what's his knowledge of generally accepted accounting principles, and Don Jr. essentially said, I leave that up to my accountants.

Now, this is sort of echoing what he gave in that deposition to the attorney general under oath last year, how he sort of distances himself from how all of those financial statements of a condition are prepared, which is at the heart of this case. So we're continuing to follow the updates in the courtroom, but he is on the stand. Questioning has begun from the state's attorney general and then we'll see if that gets - if they finish up today and if we see cross- examination after that point, guys.

SANCHEZ: And Brynn, on the question of another potential Trump testifying, we just learned that Ivanka Trump, she's now appealing a ruling that ordered her to testify in this case.

GINGRAS: Yes. Remember, they have been fighting to not - Trump's team, the defense team, has been fighting to not let her take the stand and actually testifying in this case after an appeals judge said that she is no longer a defendant in this case.

Last week, the judge ordered that she will have to testify, that she will actually have to physically be here to testify. She was set to do that after her father took the stand at the beginning of next week, and it was slated for Wednesday. But now that the - she has filed an appeal.

Now, remember the judge allowed for some time for this appeal to actually happen. It was somewhat expected. So now we'll have to see if that sort of messes with the schedule, if she actually does take the stand.

In the appeal, she's essentially - her lawyers are essentially saying that she's not a defendant in this case, that she wasn't living in New York at the time that these paperwork and all these assessments were made and sent her to this case, so it should not be fair. It's not fair in their terms that she would have to testify to this.

So we'll see what an appellate court has to say about that, and if it then means that she will or will not take the stand, we'll have to wait.

DEAN: We will wait and see.

Brynn Gingras for us in New York, thanks so much.

[15:20:00]

And still ahead this afternoon, the House is back in session, and among the first items on its agenda, voting on a trio of resolutions that would admonish or remove some members. Details on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DEAN: It's a censure showdown on Capitol Hill today. House lawmakers

will vote on two resolutions aimed at Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and Democratic Representative Rashida Tlaib, who introduced the resolution - or Greene, rather, who introduced the resolution against Tlaib, is calling for the Democrat to be censured for her remarks against Israel and for attending a pro-Palestinian protest at the Capitol last week.

But Greene's past remarks are also under scrutiny. She's facing a censure resolution for previous comments she made that were largely viewed as anti-Semitic.

For more on all of this, let's go now to CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju, who's live on Capitol Hill.

Manu, all of this is happening in addition to a resolution to expel Congressman George Santos.

[15:25:03]

So we're - you're looking at these three votes later on tonight. What's the state of play there on the Hill?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. We expect this to happen all before the very significant issue about funding for Israel and whether - what to do about funding for Ukraine. That is essentially the next thing that the new speaker will have to worry about after getting through a series of votes, complicated votes tonight. On that first vote, dealing with censuring Marjorie Taylor Greene, also censuring a Democratic resolution to censure Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Republican resolution to do the same thing to Rashida Tlaib.

The question is whether they'll be the votes to pass. There's some expectation that both of those could actually fail tonight, given opposition from both parties. And then there's the effort pushed by a group of New York Republican freshmen to expel George Santos from the House, something that has only happened five times in American history, a member of the House being kicked out of the chamber. The question is, can they get the two-thirds majority in the House to do just that. That is a high bar, given that a number of Republicans want to let the investigations play out, particularly among the House Ethics Committee, before making a decision.

But one congressman who I spoke to, Congressman Max Miller of Ohio, told me that he is in favor of expelling George Santos from the House, and he's undecided on where he'll come down on those two censure resolutions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAX MILLER (R-OH): I called for George Santos' expulsion at the very beginning of the year, and I'm a man of my word. I'm not backing away. I'm a Republican who likes to hold other Republicans accountable when they do nasty things. But it is a very personal issue that I have with him, and what I can tell you is, he broke the law, and I will be voting yes.

If we want to call balls and strikes, members of both parties have said anti-Semitic remarks. They have. Marjorie Taylor Greene has said anti-Semitic remarks. Rashida Tlaib has said anti-Semitic remarks. I'm going to call it out on both sides of the aisle. I'm sick of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But on the Santos measure, why it's unclear that it'll pass is because it would need the support of about 77 Republicans on the floor, and a number of them simply say that they want to see what happens with the House Ethics Committee, which made an unusual announcement just yesterday, saying that it would reveal its findings and its recommendation on what to do with George Santos before November 17th.

So several members want to wait until that happened before making a decision here. But nevertheless, that vote's still happening as members who serve with George Santos and the New York delegation of Republicans who come from swing districts are pushing for his ouster amid all those charges, those - indictment that he is facing as - even though Santos has pleaded not guilty. That vote's still happening tonight as Santos braces for his fate in just a matter of hours, guys?

DEAN: Manu Raju for us, thanks so much.

One of the five GOP lawmakers asking their conference to join them in supporting George Santos' expulsion is going to join us next.

Plus, a midair scare. A pilot was indicted for allegedly threatening to shoot the captain on a Delta plane mid-flight. What led to that? And why that pilot was even authorized to have a gun on the plane in the first place?

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