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Sons of Donald Trump Testify in New York; Interview With Former U.S. Ambassador to Israel Tom Nides; U.S. Secretary of State Heads to Israel. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 02, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Durable, sustainable peace, durable, sustainable security for Israelis and Palestinians alike.

We're focused on the day of. We also need to be focused on the day after. And so, in conversations that we will be having through the course of this weekend, I expect you will see a focus there, and particularly how we can get over time to two states for two peoples, which, in our judgment, remains the best guarantor and maybe the only guarantor of a secure Jewish and democratic Israel and Palestinians with the state that they're entitled to.

So these will be the things that we're focused on. These are challenging times. These are intensely difficult issues. But I'm convinced that American diplomacy can make a difference in moving everyone to a better place. That's what we will be working to do.

I can take questions.

QUESTION: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

Do you assess that Israel has shown restraint up to this point in their offensive in Gaza? And what are the concrete steps you will be pushing them on? And are you confident that you will actually be able to get them to make any movement on this, given the maximalist positions we have seen from the Israelis?

BLINKEN: Well, as we have said, and it's important. Israel has the right and the obligation to defend itself and, again, to try to make sure that what happened never happens again.

No country, no country, not the United States, not anyone else that I can think of, would tolerate the slaughter of its civilians. So we stand behind that, and we stand behind the proposition.

But, as democracies, the United States, Israel, other democracies, have a responsibility to do everything possible to protect civilians who may be caught in harm's way. And this, again, is a crossfire, quite literally, of Hamas' making.

The fact that it, cynically and monstrously, deliberately, has people, men, women, and children, as human shields puts its command posts, puts its leadership, puts its fighters, puts its weapons, puts its munitions underneath hospitals, or even inside them, schools, mosques makes this incredibly challenging.

But we have to rise to that responsibility. And so we will be talking about concrete steps that can and should be taken to minimize harm to men, women and children in Gaza. And this is something that the United States is committed to. I'm not going to get into the details here, but it's very much on the agenda.

When I see a Palestinian child, a boy, a girl, pulled from the rubble of a collapsed building, that hits me in the gut as much as seeing a child in Israel or anywhere else. So this is something that we have an obligation to respond to, and we will.

QUESTION: Thank you.

I wonder if we could get your assessment of the current risk of the spillover in the conflict. Today, Hezbollah said they have attacked 19 posts along Israel's border with Lebanon. The Houthis said the other day they're entering the conflict.

And, just secondly, while you're in the region, how do you expect to be able to get other countries in the region involved in sort of the day-after plan that you're talking about, when there's rising opposition, rising protests against Israel from -- you see Bahrain and Jordanian pull out their own ambassadors?

BLINKEN: So, we are determined to prevent escalation on any of these fronts, whether it's Lebanon, Northern Israel, Southern Lebanon, whether it's the West Bank, whether it's anywhere else in the region.

And the president's been very clear in what he said publicly. We have been very clear in what we have shared privately. We have been very clear in some of the actions we're taking that we are determined to deter any escalation.

So, with our partners as well, we're making sure that that message gets through. It's not in anyone's interests, not in anyone's interests, for this to escalate. And I think some of the other parties involved actually recognize that. But we're going to work on that every single day.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) happening, though, these strikes already -- are already taking place.

BLINKEN: What we have seen so far are discrete attacks. We have responded as necessary, including on our forces, our forces who are in the region in Syria and Iraq, to prevent the resurgence of ISIL, which also should be in everyone's interest.

[13:05:05]

And you saw the actions that we took in response to that. But, as I said, we're determined to prevent escalation, to prevent the spread of this conflict, and we're taking the necessary steps to try to make sure that that happens.

With regard to what comes next, again, I think, understandably, people are very focused on the day of, not just the day after, but we do have to have conversations now about how we can best set the conditions for a durable, sustainable peace, durable, sustainable security for Israelis and Palestinians alike.

So, I expect that those are conversations that we will have an opportunity to pursue over the next couple of days. But this is a long-term effort, but we have to make sure that we're focused on it now.

Thanks. Thanks, everyone.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We have been listening to Secretary of State Antony Blinken from Joint Base Andrews, the secretary of state, along with other key officials in the Biden administration, on the way to the Middle East to very important meetings, not only with Israeli officials, but other partners in the region.

As the secretary of state is ready to board the plane, we should point out he reiterated his support for Israel, the U.S.' stance that Israel has a right to defend itself against what he described as a monstrous Hamas.

But he did say that how Israel does this matters. He says that steps need to be taken to protect civilians, because he said that civilians are bearing the brunt of this action. Notably, the secretary of state saying that seeing children pulled from the rubble hits him in the gut.

He also talked about focusing on getting humanitarian aid into Gaza while getting foreign nationals and U.S. citizens out. And, notably, he not only talked about discussions regarding the current situation in Gaza, but also the future, the secretary of state saying, we need to be focused on the day after, referring, of course, to a two-state solution, saying that he believes that may be the best and only way to secure peace, not only for Israel, but for Palestinians as well.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Right, interesting to see him looking ahead in this moment as well to what potentially could come next.

So, as they are now en route to Israel, we want to take you to our global coverage. We have got this covered from a variety of angles for you.

We have CNN's Melissa Bell in Cairo, CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Israel, and CNN's Natasha Bertrand also here. She's joining us now.

Natasha, we will talk to you first.

We just heard from the secretary of state there as he's getting ready to board the plane with a large group of American diplomats headed to Israel. What are your main takeaways?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Jessica, so he said that in his conversations with the Israelis, they're going to be discussing concrete steps that they can be taking to minimize harm to civilians.

And that is really going to be a key part of all of his discussions there. He wants to get an update from the Israelis on their military operation, on the objectives inside Gaza, but, importantly, he wants to reiterate to them that they need to be taking all steps possible to be trying to protect civilians there.

Now, he also said that a key part of their conversations is going to be getting sustained aid into Gaza. Right now, the number of trucks going in is around 50 to 60 a day, but he has said that he wants that number to get up to 100 trucks a day and for it to be sustained.

So that's also going to be a key part of these discussions. But really interestingly here, he seems to be very focused on not only what is going on right now, but what the endgame is. What happens if and when Hamas is eliminated? That is a Israel's stated goal.

Who is going to govern the Gaza Strip? And how is a durable and sustainable peace going to be achieved? He said that that is going to be a topic of discussion as well, because he said that what he wants to see, what the U.S. wants to see is two states for two people. And he said that remains the best guarantor of a secure Jewish and democratic Israel and Palestinians for the state that they are entitled to.

So there's going to be a lot on the agenda for him here, a lot of tough conversations that he's going to have with the Israelis about protecting civilians.

But, as you mentioned, he did reiterate multiple times that the U.S. believes that Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the U.S. multiple times calling for a pause in the action to help get those hostages out, to get humanitarian aid into Gaza, so far, though, no signs of Israel being open to that.

Let's get an update now on the situation with those folks that are trying to leave Gaza.

Melissa Bell is in Cairo for us. She's been monitoring the situation at the Rafah Crossing.

So, Melissa, given these remarks from Secretary of State Antony Blinken, what have you been hearing about what's happening on the ground, as we learn that some Americans have been able to get out?

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

We have seen a few dozen Americans, Boris, now able to get to the Egyptian side of the Rafah Crossing. Of course, that is hugely important and what we understand is going to happen is that that's going to continue. In fact, the latest list that was published, nearly 600 names of those who are meant to be allowed out today, included 400 Americans. [13:10:02]

So that's a large amount. But remember that this is a fairly chaotic process, not just the opacity with which it is decided who on any specific day can get out. And this is a question for Israel, Hamas, and Egypt to consider on a case-by-case basis. There's a whole vetting procedure.

But then, of course, on the other side, the chaos of trying to get families or those whose names might be on the list that day to the Rafah Crossing and to make them even aware that their name is on that list that day. And remember that, just yesterday, we saw another sort of Internet and communications blackout. Very difficult to reach anyone inside or for families outside to reach their loved ones.

Still, several dozen now have made their way out. And I think it's significant that what they bring with them are tales of what's been going on inside. And that's going to continue over the coming days.

As for the aid that Secretary Blinken was just mentioning there, they are -- there are a few trucks going through the Rafah Crossing each day. What we have understood from the time that we have spent up there is that part of the difficulty, what is slowing down the process are the Israeli checks on the other side.

That is unlikely to change, Secretary Blinken making clear there that they're going to bring pressure to bear to make sure that more trucks get in. But, just to be clear, the number of trucks that have gotten in now since this conflict began is still fewer trucks than would have gotten in on any day before it did.

So that gives you an idea of the huge lack of humanitarian aid and the needs that are inside. There's going to be such a huge shortfall to make up for. And, in the meantime, you're talking about lack of water, lack of food, no sanitation, fairly chaotic conditions. And that is even before you deal with the wounded.

The other handful of people who've been allowed out through the Rafah Crossing are some of the most wounded Palestinians. And, as we understand it, there have been several dozen more today. And that also is likely to continue over the coming days, Boris.

DEAN: All right, Melissa Bell for us in Egypt.

Let's go now into Israel, where Jeremy Diamond is standing by.

And, Jeremy, again, we just heard from the secretary of state, Tony Blinken. He mentioned repeatedly, and he and the have said repeatedly that Israel has a right to defend itself. But we also hear him saying it matters how they do it and that they are going to be talking about that as well as they head to Israel this afternoon.

What more can you tell us from your vantage point?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, there's no question that a big part of the secretary of state's visit here will be intended to talk to the Israelis about the mounting toll of civilian casualties.

Now, it's clear that both Israel and the United States have some distrust in the numbers coming out of the Palestinian Ministry of Health, which, of course, is controlled by Hamas, but, nonetheless, the images that we are seeing in some of these strikes are undeniable.

And, in particular, over the last couple of days, much of the world has really been struck by those images of the enormous craters in the Jabalia refugee camp, where Israel says it was targeting, in one case, a senior Hamas commander, in another case, terrorist infrastructure underneath residential buildings.

But, in both cases, what we saw were a number of civilian casualties, including women and children. But another focus of this visit, of course, will be the state of Israel's ground offensive. And over the last day, we have learned from the chief of staff of Israel's military that Israeli forces are inside of Gaza City operating in what he described as very significant areas within that city.

The day before, we heard that Israeli forces were at the gates of that city, which is Hamas' stronghold here in Northern Gaza.

But what's also become clear, particularly to us from our vantage point here with Gaza just right over my shoulder, is the fact that, even as Israeli forces move in on Gaza City, which is south of here, there is still very, very intense fighting ongoing between Israeli forces and Hamas militants in the northern part of the Gaza Strip, including the city right behind me, Beit Hanoun, which is the northeasternmost city in Gaza City.

All throughout the day, we have been hearing artillery fire, mortar rounds going off inside the Gaza Strip, as well as ongoing gun battles between forces. We have been hearing small-arms fire and machine guns throughout the day.

And that tells us what you need to know about the danger that those tunnels that Hamas has underground present to Israeli forces entering the Gaza Strip. We know that, last night, overnight, Israeli forces in the north were indeed ambushed by Hamas fighters, most likely using those underground tunnels.

And so it's clear that even as Israeli forces move in on Gaza City, they are still dealing with some very intense fighting here in the north and facing the very real danger that Hamas fighters could pop up behind them.

DEAN: All right, Jeremy Diamond for us in Israel, our thanks to you and Melissa Bell and Natasha Bertrand. We will check in with you guys throughout the next several hours.

SANCHEZ: Let's dig deeper on Tony Blinken's visit to the region with Tom Nides. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Israel.

Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us.

I do want to, for the sake of transparency, let our viewers know about your personal connection to CNN. The ambassador is married to our colleague CNN executive vice president Virginia Moseley.

[13:15:03]

Now that that's out of the Way, ambassador, moments ago, we heard from Secretary of State Antony Blinken saying that he wants to discuss concrete steps with the Israelis on protecting civilians. The White House has called for a pause to fighting, something that Israel does not appear to be open to.

Would you advise President Biden to push Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu harder on the issue of either a cease-fire or a pause, however he'd like to describe it?

TOM NIDES, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Boris.

I think, first and foremost, as the secretary pointed out, Israel has an obligation to eliminate the threat of Hamas to the people of Israel, make no mistake, and America supports that. And as the secretary just said, it's -- how it's done it's very important.

So, at the same time we support Israel in a very aggressive way to eliminate this risk, there's also we are -- we're all human beings. None of us this -- fight isn't between the Palestinian people. The fight is with Hamas.

And, obviously, as Tony said, as the secretary said, it breaks all of our hearts to see any young child die or any old person die or anyone die who's basically innocent. Hamas wants this to happen. Their desire here is to have more and more Palestinian deaths and obviously Israeli deaths to create martyrism.

And I think the secretary's voice to -- as a credible voice to someone who supports the state of Israel and also work with Israel, including the prime minister, to make sure how they do it and be focused on the humanitarian crisis, is exceptionally important on this visit.

SANCHEZ: To your point about people being upset over the images of children being pulled out of the rubble, echoing what the secretary of state said, the administration is facing mounting pressure on the domestic front, even from supporters, over civilian deaths.

I actually want to share with you video captured at a fund-raiser last night. This is a protester heckling the president, demanding a cease- fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, if you care about the Jewish people, as a rabbi, I need you to call for a cease-fire right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: We have seen other demonstrations echoing that sentiment.

Ambassador, at what point do you think public pressure might become politically untenable for the White House?

NIDES: Listen, I think we have got to step back here a second and understand what happened here.

Hamas did -- the brutality of what Hamas did to the Jewish people, no one, including the United States of America, would let their family members, their friends, children being ripped from the parents, grabbing, grabbing 240 innocent people and dragging them into Gaza and sticking them in tunnels, no one, no one, including the Americans or Israel, would ever allow this to be tolerated.

So, Israel has an obligation, a very clear obligation, to eliminate the threat of Hamas. Number two, there's no question Israel also has an obligation to make sure as best as humanly possible in a war to protect innocent people. That is the secretary's -- what he will -- message he will give.

It's what President Biden said last night. And I think it's important for you to understand as well is, what the secretary said on the tarmac just a minute ago at Andrews is, we got to use this opportunity to also be clear, we need a vision of not only to get a two-state solution done, to get a Saudi deal done, to make sure that we're thinking about the next coming weeks.

And that's going to be exceptionally important for all of us as we think about the future of not only Israel, but the future of Gaza and securing the Palestinian people.

SANCHEZ: Ambassador, it is difficult to envision a two-state solution, when Hamas, perhaps the most influential party, certainly the most influential party in Gaza, arguably the most influential Palestinian entity, they say -- Hamas leaders have said that they will not stop conducting terrorist attacks until Israel no longer exists.

How is a two-state solution possible when an organization like Hamas leads the Palestinian people?

NIDES: Well, first of all, to be clear, Hamas does not lead the Palestinian people. Hamas doesn't speak for the Palestinian people.

President Abbas, who is the leader in the West Bank...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Respectfully, Ambassador, they do lead the Palestinian people in Gaza. I mean, they hold power there.

NIDES: OK, first of all, I think it would be interesting to see what actually the Palestinian people in Gaza feel about what they're being put through right now, OK?

What they're being put through is something Hamas is doing. Do you think the Hamas leadership are sitting around talking about a two- state solution?

SANCHEZ: Of course not. NIDES: Do you think Hamas are talking about moving Israeli -- moving poor Palestinians from Northern Gaza to Southern Gaza?

No, what Hamas is trying to do -- and, Boris, you know this as well as I do -- what they're trying to do is to create a regional war against the state of Israel.

[13:20:05]

SANCHEZ: Sure.

NIDES: In the meantime, the secretary of state, the president of the United States, and mostly Arab leaders, we need to be focusing on the day after.

Hamas does not speak for the Palestinian people. We need to work with the leadership around the region to come up with a clear path of an opportunity for everyone to try to see the steps forward here.

SANCHEZ: It is difficult to envision that day after without whether it's Hamas or a different entity having hold over a population that feels like it's been occupied for decades, though.

There's going to be some kind of anti-Israel group that takes power in that vacuum, don't you think?

NIDES: Oh, listen, again, I wish -- I could have a crystal ball.

SANCHEZ: Sure.

NIDES: What I know for sure is, Hamas will not be leading the leadership in Gaza.

What comes next is not just what the United States wants. It's not just what the Israel wants. The most important is what the regional want. This is what we talk about, the Emiratis, the Egyptians, the Jordanians. They will have a regional view of what's going to happen.

That's why the secretary, Blinken, has been so effective by communicating with these regional leaders, and, quite frankly, why the president has so much credibility in the region right now, because he's now -- he's supporting the importance of Israel, but he's also understanding we have to be compassionate to the loss of lives and to work for the future, and that's what they need to spend time on.

SANCHEZ: Ambassador, to your point about regional players, two ambassadors to Israel have been recalled in the last two days, both from Bahrain and Jordan.

Do you anticipate more might follow? How does that complicate the picture, the fact that there is so much sentiment against Israel right now in the region, given some of the recent attacks that we have seen, like on the Jabalia refugee camp?

NIDES: Listen, this is going to be -- and I have said this before publicly -- this is going to be the toughest 30 days for the state of Israel, in my view, for a long, long time.

They are trying to do multiple things at one time. One is, they're trying to eliminate the threat of Hamas. Number two, they're trying to save the lives of 240 hostages. And I talked to the families this morning again. Three, they're trying to avoid a regional war. And, yes, four, they need, they must protect as many Palestinian lives as possible.

That is a very, very difficult period of time. And we will be looking to all the regional players to help us achieve that goal.

SANCHEZ: Ambassador, I also wanted to get your thoughts on something that the secretary of state, not just now on the tarmac, but previously had said would be an issue that would come up in conversations with the Israelis.

And that is settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank. You have been in the room for very difficult conversations on that topic before. How should the U.S. approach that?

NIDES: They should be tough.

Tony Blinken -- I sat in that room with Secretary Blinken, with Bibi Netanyahu, and he could not be clearer it was the prime minister's obligation to end the settler violence, for having these thugs walking around and beating up on poor, innocent Palestinians. He needs to express that again.

And I guarantee you, having been in the meeting with the secretary and watching how passionately he cares about it, he needs to do it. And I think it's important for him to express that. Vigilante justice doesn't exist. It doesn't need to exist and it needs to be stopped.

SANCHEZ: Ambassador Tom Nides, we have to leave the conversation there, but we very much appreciate the time and perspective.

NIDES: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come on NEWS CENTRAL: Eric Trump on the stand in the New York civil fraud trial against his father and their family business. The former president could be on deck. What we're learning from Eric's testimony and Don Jr.'s as well.

We will be right back.

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DEAN: Right now, Donald Trump's son Eric is on the stand in the civil fraud trial in New York. He's testifying after his brother Don Jr. finished his testimony.

Both men are executive vice presidents of the Trump Organization and co-defendants in this trial. And, earlier today, Don Jr. repeatedly said he relied on his accountants and was not involved with the preparations of financial statements for his father. Take a look at him leaving court today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Before even having a day in court, I'm apparently guilty of fraud for relying on my accountant to do -- wait for it -- accounting.

I mean, think about that. What does that do for literally any other business?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And joining us now is Nick Akerman. He's a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Nick, thanks so much for being here with us.

We just heard from Donald Trump Jr. He's repeatedly said that he relied on his accountants and was not involved with the preparations of these financial statements for his father. How do you expect the judge to read that, given that he also signed a statement as a trustee of the president's revocable trust?

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: I think the way that judge is going to read this is that Don Jr. is a liar.

The fact of the matter is, he not only signed off on the financial statements. He basically said that he had evaluated the adequacy of the services performed by the accountants and lawyers. He also sent that same financial statement on -- to Deutsche Bank.

And he said there -- and I quote -- "presents fairly in all material respects the financial condition of the guarantor at the period presented."

Now, the A.G.'s office brought on evidence today that, at the time, Don Jr. had been contacted by "Forbes" magazine and told that there was a false statement on the financials respecting the size of his father's apartment, where the financials claimed it was 10,000 square feet -- or 30,000 square feet,.

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