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Israeli Advance Inside Gaza Amidst Evacuation Efforts; U.S. Secretary Of State Blinken Addresses Gaza Crisis; Thousands Stranded At Rafah Crossing In Gaza Evacuation; Israeli Defense Forces Push Toward Gaza City; Tensions Rise In Civil Fraud Trial Against Trump Organization; Eric Trump Testifies In Trump Organization Fraud Trial; Nikki Haley Rises In GOP Polls, Targets Trump And DeSantis. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired November 02, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Jessica Dean in Washington, D.C. We're tracking an Israeli advance inside Gaza right now in the rush to get thousands of civilians out of Gaza through Egypt while another high stakes visit to Israel is conducted by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, weighing all of those factors while trying to avert a wider war in the region.

Now the Secretary of State departed last hour, and before leaving, he reiterated Israel's right to defend itself but also address the immense civilian suffering that's been unleashed inside Gaza. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANOTHY BLIKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We will be talking about concrete steps that can and should be taken to minimize harm to men, women, and children in Gaza, and this is something that the United States is committed to. I'm not going to get into the details here, but it's very much on the agenda. When I see a Palestinian child, a boy, a girl, pulled from the rubble of a collapsed building, that hits me in the gut as much as seeing a child in Israel or anywhere else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Notably, Secretary Blinken also said he plans to discuss long-term options to achieve what he calls a sustainable peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: We're focused on the day of. We also have -- need to be focused on the day after. And so, in conversations that we'll be having through the course of this, this weekend, I expect you'll see a focus there, and particularly how we can get over time two states for two peoples, which in our judgment remains the best guarantor, and maybe the only guarantor, of a secure Jewish and democratic Israel and Palestinians with the state that they're entitled to. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's get you on the ground now with CNN's Melissa Bell, who's in Cairo for us, and Jeremy Diamond in Israel, just a few miles from the Gaza border. Melissa let's start with you. Thousands of foreign nationals still amassed at the Rafah crossing with Egypt, waiting to leave Gaza. That includes hundreds of American families. Talk to us about where things stand right now.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know, Boris, that a few dozen Americans have now made their way through several hundred foreign and dual nationals altogether over the last couple of days. We expect that process to continue as chaotic as it is, and there's the difficulty of getting people to the crossing in time, the difficulty of warning them that their list -- name is on the list that particular day, since these lists are being published every day with a few hundred names of those who will be able to evacuate that day.

And if what we've seen, Boris, over the last couple of weeks in terms of how slow the aid is in going in, is down to Israeli checks and their determination to keep a close eye on what's going into Gaza. The difficulty with getting anyone down is very much down also to Egyptian security concerns. They made it very clear from the start that they want a close eye on anyone coming out of Gaza, not only because they want to avoid a flood of refugees, but also because they are determined that the Palestinians should not be forced out of Gaza.

They've also seen the experience of countries like Jordan, Lebanon, that have taken in Palestinian refugees over the decades and never seen them go back. So, Egypt is keeping a very close eye. These lists are published daily and they have to be organized between Egyptian, Israeli, Hamas authorities. So, we have no real insight into how those lists are compiled. What we do understand from families who are desperately trying to reach their loved ones inside is that it is difficult to reach them because of the blackout that we've seen again over the course of the last day or so, but also because some people are getting to the crossing, seeing their name on the list, but finding that their wife or their child is not, and therefore deciding to stay put until they can get their other family members out.

[14:05:09]

So, a fairly chaotic situation at the Rafah crossing, and I think it's important to and I think it's important to remember that those people who are coming out little by little and bringing with them the tales of what they've been through, have been camped out for many of them at that gate for many days or even a couple of weeks with very little access to food, very little access to water. There's no sanitation right now inside the Gaza Strip. And of course, with the daily fear of Israeli bombardments that have over the course of the last 3.5 weeks come as far south as Rafah.

So, a chaotic situation, but it continues. And on the list today were the names of 400 American citizens, Boris.

SANCHEZ: And Melissa Bell, please stand by. Jeremy, to you, the Israeli Defense Forces, they're now pushing toward Gaza City. The IDF says that is the heart of Hamas's operations. Bring us up to speed on the status of that advance.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right, Boris. Yesterday, a top Israeli commander said that Israeli forces were at the gates of Gaza City, which is Hamas's stronghold in Northern Gaza. And today, the chief of staff of Israel's military saying that Israeli forces are in Gaza City and have been operating in Gaza City for several days now, including he said in quote, significant areas of Gaza City. But what is clear is that these battles are very contentious between Israeli forces and, excuse me, and Hamas militants.

And even as Israeli forces are entering Gaza City, they are also still engaged in very fierce fighting in Northern Gaza as well. We were just across the border from Beit Hanun, the northeastern most city in Gaza City today, where we witnessed fierce fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants, artillery fire, mortar shells being fired off, and gun battles between Israeli forces and those Hamas fighters as well. And so, it's clear that even as Israeli forces enter the largest city in Gaza, they are still fighting Hamas forces along those defensive front lines in the north, near where Israeli forces initially entered when they launched that expanded ground operation on Friday.

And one of the reasons for that is those tunnels, dozens of miles of tunnels underneath Gaza, which Hamas fighters use to evade as well as to ambush Israeli forces. That is a clear and present danger for those forces, and that's why we have watched both in the days before this expanded ground operation as well as in its initial days, those tunnel systems have been a massive target for Israeli forces.

The problem with that, of course, as well, is that those tunnels are underneath residential buildings in Gaza, including that Jabalia refugee camp where we saw Israeli forces struck twice in just 2 days, resulting not only, they say, in the targeting and the destruction of underground Hamas tunnels, command centres, as well as a senior commander, but also in a number of civilian casualties. You see those images, the enormous craters that were left by Israeli munitions dropped there, and you also see the images of women and children being pulled from amidst the rubble. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Very difficult images to process. Jeremy Diamond in Israel, Melissa Bell in Egypt. Thank you both so much. Jessica.

DEAN: The pressure to end the violence in Gaza is following President Biden beyond the White House. At a fundraiser last night in Minnesota, a protester who identified herself as Rabbi Jessica Rosenberg interrupted the president, calling for a ceasefire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA ROSENBERG, RABBI: Mr. President, if you care about Jewish people as a rabbi, I need you to call for a ceasefire right now.

UNKNOWN: No, get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. (END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Biden responded saying he understood the emotion and he called for a humanitarian pause, saying, quote, I think we need a pause. A pause means give time to get the prisoners out, but he was careful not to say he supported a ceasefire. That video was released by the group Jewish, Jewish Voice for Peace. Let's turn now to Eylon Levy, a spokesperson for the Israeli government. Thanks so much for being here with us and for making time. We just played that clip from that fundraiser last night, President Biden saying last night that he supports pausing the fighting to get the hostages out. Is that something your government would consider?

EYLON LEVY, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: Israel has already twice temporarily paused hostilities in order to get the hostages out. Clearly, if there's a prospect of releasing our innocent hostages, then we will not bombard those areas in order to get them out safely. That is indeed the case. And if we're able to get our hostages out, those 240 people, including babies, then absolutely it would be possible to have a temporary cessation to facilitate their safe evacuation.

DEAN: And it sounds like that would be based on intelligence and an agreement. Is that what would motivate you to do that again?

LEVY: Our assessment is that the current ground operation is advancing the conditions to help free our hostages. We've already seen 4 hostages released under heavy international pressure. We're calling on more international pressure to release the rest of them immediately and unconditionally.

[14:10:09]

But Hamas isn't suddenly going to develop a humanitarian backbone and release the children it abducted out of the kindness of its own heart. We're moving in in order to physically free the hostages and put that pressure on Hamas to release them immediately and unconditionally. And the United States has been very clear that there's no excuse for abducting children and innocent people like that from their beds and holding them hostage in the Gaza Strip.

DEAN: And we just heard from the U.S. Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, he's departing and en route now to Israel with the newly confirmed ambassador, Jack Lew. And at one point he highlighted not just discussing the day of and the moment to moment as you all are living in it, but the day after. Essentially, he said setting conditions for a durable, sustainable peace. Those were his words.

And that you all will be talking about that. Is Israel ready to have that conversation right now?

LEVY: We're exploring several different contingencies for the day after Hamas, but I want to stress this is premature. It's like discussing the Marshall Plan before the Battle of Stalingrad. We're still very early on in our campaign to defeat Hamas and destroy it in response to the October 7th massacre. There are several scenarios that are on the table.

I can tell you the common denominator between all of them is that the Gaza Strip will be completely demilitarized. When this campaign is over, we will not go back to a world in which this enclave can be used to attack us with rockets, thousands of rockets just in the last few weeks for the invasions of the death squads that burned, butchered, raped, beheaded people on October 7th.

But it's very premature. We know that the battle ahead to dislodge Hamas, just as the world took many years to wipe out ISIS in Syria and Iraq, that road is going to be long. It's going to be difficult. And there will be a time to have those discussions.

DEAN: And I understand what you're saying in that you are very much in this right now. But your government and the IDF have both repeatedly said that your plan is to wipe out Hamas, that that is what will happen. And so, what does that potentially look like if it's a demilitarized Gaza? What would that look like?

LEVY: It is very premature to look at what the day after scenario is going to look like. We're in this war, not because we initiated it, but because Hamas declared war on us on October 7th with that massacre, leaving us no choice but to move in and to exercise our right to self-defense by dismantling the terror organization that perpetrated that. I wish I could come and say that there were an organized plan and vision in advance, but this is a war that we were surprised by and dragged into.

And we look forward to working with our international partners to rebuild the Gaza Strip the day after Hamas in a way that it can no longer pose a threat to the security of our people. But I think also just as importantly that it can never be used again by a terror organization that has subjugated it like it has in the last 16 years and diverted all that humanitarian aid into building its tunnels, building its rockets. And we hope the day after Hamas will be safer, not only for the people of Israel, but the people of the Gaza Strip as well.

DEAN: And the State Department here in the U.S. has said it's concerned about growing, growing Israeli settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank. That is likely to be talked about as well as the U.S. officials are there in Israel. What do you think the Israeli government should be doing about that?

LEVY: Clearly, we deplore anyone trying to take the law in their own hands and firmly condemn any vigilantism or hooliganism, that is not our way. Those are not our values. At the moment, we're focusing on defeating Hamas in the Gaza Strip and trying to stop this conflict from escalating further. We know that Hamas immediately with the October 7th massacre called on Palestinians in the West Bank to grab their guns, grab their knives and go and attack Jews. They've been trying to drag Hezbollah into this war as well. And at the moment, we're trying to defeat Hamas and stop anything that could lead to a wider escalation of violence.

DEAN: All right, Eylon Levy, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

LEVY: Thank you very much, anytime.

DEAN: The Trumps are back in court today with Don Jr. and Eric taking the stand in the civil fraud trial. We're gonna be live outside the courthouse next. Also ahead, Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley isn't pulling any punches as she rises in the polls, but will it make a dent in the front runners huge lead? You're watching CNN News Central and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:09]

DEAN: Donald Trump's son Eric on the witness stand today in New York testifying in the fraud trial against the Trump family business. Don Jr. finished his testimony earlier today. And the brothers are executive vice presidents at the Trump organization. They're also co- defendants in this trial. CNN's Brynn Gingras is outside the courtroom. And Brent, there were some tense exchanges between Eric Trump and the assistant attorney general about the president's financial statements. What happened there?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jessica, it's important to keep in mind as we follow this trial, these financial statements are the heart of the case. And so, when the state's attorney general, assistant attorney general, was questioning Eric Trump on the stand, she was asking him questions about how long has he been aware of financial statements? Has he had any part in preparing those financial statements?

And Eric Trump essentially under oath said that he wasn't even aware of financial, financial statements until the investigation from the AG started just a few years ago. Well, the assistant attorney general questioning him brought up emails, brought up phone calls, brought up testimony from prior witnesses, making it clear that he had knowledge about his father's financial statement of conditions from more than a decade ago.

Let me bring up one graphic to show you exactly what was said on the stand. The question was, so you did know about your father's annual financial statement as of August 20th, 2013, didn't you? And that was from the state's attorney. And it's an Eric Trump response. It appears that way. Yes. So, a little bit of a contradiction in the testimony of Eric Trump. This led to a very tense exchange. Our fellow colleagues in the courtroom say Eric Trump leaned forward into the microphone and yelled a little bit louder that he, again, had no part in preparing the financial statements of his father.

[14:19:59]

Again, information that is very much at the heart of this case. Now, not distancing himself from the preparation of those statements is also something his older brother, John Jr., did pretty much on the stand for the entire 3 hours that he testified. When he was finished, he did come down the courtroom steps and he went to the camera. I want you to hear what he said about this civil fraud trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., CO- DEFENDANT: Before even having a day in court, I'm apparently guilty of fraud for relying on my accountants to do, wait for it, accounting. I mean, think about that. What does that do for literally any other business?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Now these sentiments sound probably very familiar to you if you're following this because we've heard much of the same argument made by his father when he comes to the microphone. Don Jr. a little bit less contentious on the stand. We'll see how Eric Trump's testimony continues. It's unclear how long he will be on the stand if cross-examination is going to happen from the defense. But of course, we have everyone in the courtroom. We'll continue to follow this for you guys and keep you updated.

DEAN: Brynn Gingras for us outside the courtroom in New York. Thanks so much, Boris.

SANCHEZ: The fate of Trump's business empire may be on the line in New York, but his dominant grip on the GOP primary race appears to only be growing tighter. However, 1 Republican rival is rising in the polls. And this morning, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, former governor, laid out how she thinks she can catch the 2024 frontrunner. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HAYLEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF SOUTH CAROLINA: I do think I can catch Trump. And yes, he has a good lead on us. But the reason he's got a good lead is we still have a number of candidates in the race. As you seen -- see that wind down, as you see that field get smaller, you're going to start to see his lead get soft. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's chat with Ron Brownstein. He's a senior editor for The Atlantic. Ron, is that strategy going to work? There are echoes of 2016 there--

(CROSSTALK)

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: -- when Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio were all saying, oh, wait, once--

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

SANCHEZ: -- they get out, we'll consolidate.

BROWNSTEIN: Look, Donald Trump has as big a lead as we've seen any candidate have in any contested primary since the modern primary system started in 1972. But having said that, I think there is a more clarified path out of Iowa for Nikki Haley than there might be for Ron DeSantis if she can get a boost in that, in that first state.

You know, DeSantis is running in Iowa the way that Mike Huckabee did in '08, Santorum in '12, Ted, Ted Cruz in '16, trying to consolidate evangelical support and max out with those voters. The problem is that each of those candidates, after winning Iowa, immediately cratered in New Hampshire--

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: New Hampshire

BROWNSTEIN: -- where there aren't that many of those voters. Haley is really mobilizing a different constituency. She's more consolidate -- trying to consolidate white-collar suburban Republicans. So, if she can get past DeSantis in Iowa and get a boost by finishing second, there's a more logical pathway to her because there are more of those voters in New Hampshire. And then, of course, the calendar turns to South Carolina, where she is the former governor.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. I want to ask you about some of the comments she made last night on The Daily Show regarding Florida's Governor DeSantis. But to what would you attribute her rise in the broader sense? Do you think it's a sign that some in the party are ready to move on from Donald Trump in a way that is significant to the race?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think her rise right now has more to do with her and DeSantis than it yet has to do with Trump---

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I see.

BROWNSTEIN: -- I mean, she's rising in part because she's performed well at both debates, and she's caught the attention of a lot of Republican voters. But DeSantis has also had problems in his performance. I mean, -- on paper, he seems stronger than he's been in practice. And he's made a strategic choice that has really limited his reach. I mean, he basically has marketed himself as Trumpism without Trump. It turns out that the vast majority of Republican voters who want Trumpism also want Trump.

SANCHEZ: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: Right. And so, Haley has had, I think, a more kind of coherent appeal to the portion of the party that is resistant to Trump. The problem, as you're suggesting, is that that is not a majority.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: No.

BROWNSTEIN: -- And she ultimately has to find a way to -- if she is going to seriously challenge him or if anybody's going to seriously challenge him to peel away some of those voters who now support Trump but are not irrevocably wed to him. And one question will be whether her argument for generational change and electability will prove more appealing to those, maybe sometimes Trump voters, than DeSantis's version of Trumpism without Trump.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned that her ascendancy is tied to how well she's done in debates. Obviously, there's one next week. We don't expect that Donald Trump is going to be there. But should he take him on more directly now? Is it time for her to pivot to focusing on Trump?

BROWNSTEIN: I think, you know, at some point, obviously, she's going to have to make that case. And she is she is trying to do it in a kind of indirect, gentle way by talking about generational change. And as I said, that might prove less confrontational to some of the Trump voters than the DeSantis argument of Trumpism without Trump.

[14:24:57]

At the moment, she can -- her first goal is to try to eclipse DeSantis and become the clear alternative. So, I'm not sure she really has to take on Donald Trump yet. But if she, if she can come in second in Iowa, there is -- I think there's more runway for her to use that momentum effectively in New Hampshire than there would be for DeSantis, based on the precedent of Huckabee, Santorum, and Cruz, --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Sure.

BROWNSTEIN: -- who all got less than 12% or less of the vote in New Hampshire after running in Iowa the way DeSantis is. And if she can do reasonably well in Iowa, South Carolina is obviously a good, --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Friendly territory.

BROWNSTEIN: -- friendly territory for her. But you're right. Eventually, to go beyond this 30% maybe of the party that is really looking for something else than Trump, she's gonna have to find a way to convince some of those voters now with Trump.

SANCHEZ: Ron, quickly, I promised you a question on Haley talking about DeSantis. She made a joke on The Daily Show about him and high heels. There's this story out there about him potentially having lifts in his boots. She talked about if he's wearing high heels, then he should be able to run in them. She had a, we actually have the soundbite. Let's play it.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: Let's hear it. Yeah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, GUEST HOST OF THE DAILY SHOW: Are you wearing higher heels than Ron DeSantis next week at the debate so you can look taller than him on the stage?

HALEY: I don't know. We'll have to, we'll have to figure that out. I can tell you, I've always talked about my high heels. I've never, you know, hid that from anybody. I've always said, don't wear them if you can't run in them. So, we'll see if he can run in them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: She seemed to take some joy in that question. --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: -- But we've seen Ron DeSantis now several times try to reset his campaign. It hasn't really worked.

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: Do you think we've seen the high point, pardon the pun, of Ron DeSantis' run for the presidency?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, I keep thinking of Ginger Rogers. She's everything Fred Astaire did, the backward and the heels. But look, this, this is sort of emblematic of the problem for, for DeSantis, which is that as, as an actual flesh and blood candidate, it's just been consistently a little more awkward than it seemed it was going to be the morning after the election when he won Florida in a landslide.

And that is -- I don't think that is the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is the way he's positioned himself, trying to, you know (ph), crack that hardcore Trump support and in the process alienating the more suburban college plus parts of the party--

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Sure.

BROWNSTEIN: -- that are the most dubious of Trump where -- leaving that room for Haley. But yeah, I, yeah you know -- it is emblematic of the problem he's had just kind of relating to people on a day-to-day basis as a candidate.

SANCHEZ: Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers reference.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: Exactly, backward and the heels.

SANCHEZ: Ron Brownstein. Good to have you, appreciate it. Stay with CNN, we'll be right back.