Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Blinken Says, Israel Will Never Stand Alone; Explosions Heard Near Tel Aviv as War Intensifies; Soon, Eric Trump to Wrap Up Testimony in New York Civil Trial. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 03, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: If they conducted a certain way, they won't have any partners for a possible peaceful solution going forward.

[10:00:07]

What did you hear there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I was struck as well by the very graphic description of the videos it was clearly shown during his visit here, or as he has seen at some point in the line about how quickly, nearly a month after how he believed that that has kind of receded from the memories of many people.

This clearly, because the last several weeks have been filled with dramatic and painful images of civilians in Gaza, in the fallout of the military operation that Israel has carried out there inside of Gaza.

So, clearly, the U.S. trying to convey to Israel that the images of this being broadcast around the world is having quite an impact on Israel's reputation and exactly how people feel about the way Israel is acting in this operation as we speak. So, they're trying to strike that balance.

Secretary Blinken also talked about the painful videos and images that he has seen of Gaza civilians suffering in the bombardments there that have taken place over the last several weeks. And that is the fine line, kind of the balancing act that the U.S. is trying to carry out here and trying to get Israel to behave more constrained.

But he also went on to say that there are legitimate questions about how any kind of pause in all of this would take place. And, clearly, in the last several days, Israeli military officials and political leadership here have made no bones about it that they are driven by dismantling the Hamas military operation. And even Secretary Blinken here saying this afternoon in Israel that they cannot go back to pre- October 7th political conditions where Hamas can controls Gaza. So, I thought that was rather significant as well.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Stick by for us, Ed.

Let's go to Natasha Bertrand at the Pentagon. I want to hear more from you, Natasha, about your take on what's going on behind the scenes. Because what we heard from the secretary of state at the lectern right there, John and I were kind of noting it together, is you heard that he said mechanisms are in place to enable fuel to reach hospitals.

He spoke to Bibi Netanyahu and others about concrete steps to better protect civilians, that they're committed to talking about a humanitarian pause in order to allow for more hostages to be released. But those concrete steps, it doesn't say yet that they're agreed to. It seems that there's a lot more work that needs to be going on behind the scenes.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. Look, Kate, I mean, the secretary was clearly very moved, very shaken up by the images that the Israelis showed to him of the Hamas terror attack on October 7th. And that it seems very clear that that, you know, was a consistent message that the Israelis were sending to him during their meeting was, look, we are not conducting this kind of military operation in a vacuum. This is what they did to us and this is how we have to respond. And Blinken is clearly sympathetic to that argument.

But on the other hand, the conversations behind the scenes between the Biden administration and the Israeli counterparts to include Blinken have been that you are going to lose international support. And it could happen within weeks, not months, if you continue carrying out the operation in this way. If the international community continues to see women and children being pulled from the rubble in the Gaza Strip, then that it's going to actually limit your ability to carry out your military objectives in a consistent way.

And so the dueling messages here that he is sending, not only to the Israelis, but to, frankly, the American public, the rest of the world, are, look, we stand by Israel really for, you know, for -- the behind their operation here, but you have to do it right. And the bottom line comes down to, at this moment, the humanitarian pauses and the pauses that he wants to see in the fighting so that civilians can get out, so that aid can come in, and so the hostages are released.

Now, the complication, as we have reported only in the last few minutes, is that Israel made very clear to Blinken that there would be no pause in the fighting, no pause in the airstrikes unless Hamas agreed to release more hostages. So, they're not going to give up their operation for nothing. They want to see concrete steps being taken by Hamas as well. And there has been some frustration within the Israeli government for how slowly, of course, Hamas has been releasing these hostages.

So, there are just a lot of moving parts here. But I think the bottom line is that the administration is increasingly of the opinion that their position to not call for a ceasefire, not call for a longer stretch of a cessation of hostilities to protect civilians, is going to become increasingly untenable as this goes on.

BERMAN: Natasha, stand by for a minute.

[10:05:00]

I want to go one more time to Jim Sciutto, our chief national security analyst, who is in Northern Israel, not far from the border with Lebanon.

And, Jim, we were listening very closely to how the secretary of state was speaking. And he speaks so deliberately. Each word is chosen very carefully. I do not think we heard any what we call deliverables there.

Now, he wasn't going to speak on behalf of Israel, but in past trips, both by he and the president, we heard things like we got a commitment to open the border crossing, to let aid in and ultimately let civilians out. We did not hear him announce any new commitments. What we heard him say at a case point was, we're committed to talking more about this. We talked about mechanisms that possibly could get fuel in there.

I think this reflects maybe the efforts of the United States but not any fruit from those efforts just yet. What did you hear?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think on the question of releasing hostages, a pause, that those discussions are still underway. And the other piece of those discussions are not just those that take place here in Israel, but take place on his next stop, which is going to be in Amman when he speaks to Jordanian leaders and other Arab leaders about completing that picture.

Some sort of exchange of a pause in fighting, perhaps to get hostages out, but still not done yet. I think that's the deliverable he's looking for. One of them, they're not there yet, talk still underway.

I will say that one commitment he did say he had, in fact, he said he used that term, a clear commitment, was that Israel would address settler violence in the West Bank against Palestinian civilians there because Blinken, throughout his comments, was striking this balance of saying the U.S. supports Israel's right to defend itself, to respond to these horrible attacks on October 7th, but at the same time to respect the lives of Palestinians. His words were that civilians should not suffer the consequences for Hamas' inhumanity.

He went on to say that protection of civilians must take place not just in Gaza, but also in the West Bank, because this has been taking place even in the last several days. We've seen videos of Israeli settlers attacking Palestinian civilians, and sometimes when Israeli soldiers have tried to intervene, those settlers attacking Israeli soldiers as well.

So, he did say he got a clear commitment for Israeli leaders to address that violence. What still seems to be underway are talks, negotiations on how to get at least some of those hostages out of Gaza and to meet what seems to be a demand to do so, some sort of pause in hostilities. But it is clear to your point, John, they're not there yet.

BOLDUAN: And, remember, there's a key part of this mission, if you will, that's still to come when secretary of state heads to Jordan, which is probably -- you know, which could be the most important part of this considering what's happened in past weeks. Let's get quickly back over to Ed Lavandera in Tel Aviv. Control room telling me, Ed, that you've heard blast behind you.

LAVANDERA: Well, over the last hour or so, we've heard kind of like the constant thud of explosions in the distance, and that has generally been Iron Dome, protection of any kind. So, it's hard to discern every individual thud that you hear.

But now, if you look out into the distance, and this is looking back toward Northeast Tel Aviv here in the last few minutes, we've seen and we're seeing a large cloud of smoke emerging from somewhere.

We do not have details as to what exactly this is, but this all we've started to take notice of here in the last few minutes. But it is a significant cloud of smoke. It is probably several dozen miles away from where we are, this vantage point here in Tel Aviv.

So, all of this is -- you know, the concern that so many officials here have had in Israel, that there could be some sort of escalation. But we're trying to figure out exactly what we're looking at there, but we thought it was significant given the developments of the people who have been speaking here in the last few minutes, and how that's developing and what we're seeing on the ground here.

BOLDUAN: Ed Lavendera in Tel Aviv for us. Everyone stand by.

Also joining us right now is Democratic Congressman from California Ro Khanna, who is also on the Armed Services Committee. Congressman, thank you so much for jumping back on.

I know you had to run a getaway to vote, and you heard maybe a portion of the secretary of state speaking before you had to go away. I wanted to get your reaction, though, to hearing from the secretary of state a shift in tone, saying very clearly that the United States stands with Israel, but also saying that Israel needs -- we collectively need to do more to protect Palestinian civilians and saying that there is a commitment to talks about a humanitarian pause. What does this look like for you?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, let me be very clear. The bombing of innocent civilians, women and children, needs to stop.

[10:10:00]

It needs to stop today. And this is an emerging sentiment among Democrats in the House and the Senate, from Senator Chris Murphy all the way to progressive Democrats.

Now, I believe Israel has a right to bring Hamas perpetrators to justice. I believe in their right to self-defense. But when we went after Osama bin Laden, we did not bomb Pakistani civilians. When India was attacked, when the terrorist attack in Mumbai, they did not just bomb civilians.

So, we need to look at how surgically Hamas perpetrators can be brought to justice, but the bombing that is on CNN and on everyone's social media, that needs to end.

BOLDUAN: Really quickly, though, how? What is the difference between a pause and a ceasefire? How do you make sure that you're going about taking out Hamas terrorists when they -- as Tony Blinken just said, they use Palestinian civilians as human shields? How do you do it effectively? How do you pause without allowing Hamas to take advantage of the pause?

These are not easy questions. But when we talk in generalities, it may sound good. But how specifically do you think they do it?

KHANNA: Well, I think they do it the way Thomas Friedman has written about extensively, which is through surgical strikes, through Special Forces, through looking. And this may take time. It took many years for us to go after the terrorists responsible for 9/11.

But to have vast bombing in civilian places -- and I acknowledge Secretary Blinken's point, which is absolutely correct, that Hamas is using civilians as human shields. But I don't think if you're using hundreds of civilians as a human shield and you have one terrorist, that that justifies a bombing which is going to have civilians and children and women and the hundreds as collateral damage. There are more surgical and precise ways of doing it and bringing these people to justice.

And that to me is the sentiment that I see emerging among not just young people in this country but among many Democrats.

BERMAN: Congressman, Secretary Blinken described in vivid detail seeing still more horrific videos of the Hamas terror attack on Israel, talking about a father who was killed before his children and the children watching the terrorists get food from the refrigerator.

And then he noted that it seems he reflected on the fact that the brutality of this attack has receded for so many around the world but not in Israel, and he added not in the United States. And that's an observation I think is rooted in fact. If you listen to comments you are hearing from around the world you don't hear these days reflections on the terror attack itself. Why do you think that that terror has receded as a force for so many?

KHANNA: Well, it has not receded in my district. I mean, my district has a significant Israeli expat community. We have a lot of technology companies in Israel. I personally have had heard gruesome stories of women, children brutally murdered in the October 7th attacks. But that does not mitigate the suffering and the pain that we're seeing today of women and children who are Palestinian who are being killed.

And so what has dominated the news are the more recent killings and we have to find a way to end the cycle of violence.

One of the things Secretary Blinken said that I completely agree with is that there has to be a two-state solution with a Palestinian state.

For too long America and the world has thought we can just ignore the Palestinian issue, that we can have the Abraham Accords and go around Palestine, that we can pivot to Asia and that somehow the situation will disappear. That is not the case. There has to be Israeli security. There has to be Palestinian justice. And until we have that kind of peace process that James Baker started with the Oslo Accords, I don't think we're going to end the cycle of violence.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about something specifically that is in your hands. Secretary Blinken said, I think, optimistically, we are working with Congress to get more aid to Israel. Republicans, with the help of 12 Democrats, passed a standalone aid package for Israel bill last night. You voted against it. It's not going to go anywhere in the Senate. We know that the White House has already said that the president would veto that.

Other than putting blame on Republicans, for this, what is going to happen? How do you think you're going to get through this to get aid to Israel?

[10:15:00]

KHANNA: Kate, I want to answer your question, but one sentence. It's shameful what the Republicans did, holding aid to Israel for the Iron Dome defensive weapons hostage to saying that if you want to support that, you have to support cuts in IRS tax enforcement. The two have nothing to do with each other, and they put that poison pill in the bill.

There are many Democrats, including Democrats like me, who are calling for a stop to the bombing, who do believe that we should continue our aid to Israel, both for defensive technology. There are American citizens in Israel, and so America is engaged in the Middle East. I don't want China and Russia to be the mediators, but we need to have a package with the Senate, the House, and the president that can get broad bipartisan support. I'm confident Leader Jeffries, Senator Schumer, the president will work to achieve that.

BOLDUAN: But right now, do you know how that happens? To my specific question, do you know how that happens in a divided Congress?

KHANNA: I believe the Senate will move a bill. My sense is that the Senate bill will be bipartisan. It will probably be overwhelmingly bipartisan. And if it's overwhelmingly bipartisan and then comes to the House, it's going to be very hard for Republicans to vote against a bill that many Republican senators have voted for. That seems to me the most direct way of making it happen.

BOLDUAN: Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you so much for jumping on, going into vote, running back out to get on with us. We appreciate it.

KHANNA: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, there's a lot going on at this very moment, including Hassan Nasrallah, who is the leader of Hezbollah, speaking for the first time since the October 7th terror attack on Israel. People have been looking for any sign that Nasrallah, who leads Hezbollah, which has maybe 150,000 rockets in Southern Lebanon, that Nasrallah would look to widen the war, escalate the conflict. I've been looking at a running translation of his speech as it's happening. He's used a lot of heated rhetoric, but so far, as far as I can tell, not any direct calls to escalate the conflict or further them. But we're going to dig deeper. We're still watching this.

Much more just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

BOLDUAN: Key testimony in the $250 million civil fraud trial out of New York against former President Donald Trump. All of this continuing right now.

Any minute now, Trump's -- one of Trump's sons, Eric Trump, will be back under oath on the stand to wrap up his testimony. He is one of the co-defendants in this case.

And yesterday, he was pressed about his role in the Trump Organization in the scheme to inflate the company's value and his understanding of his father's finances.

BERMAN: With us now is former Assistant Special Watergate Prosecutor and former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York Nick Akerman.

So, the Trump sons so far have been called by the state. The attorney general's office, they put them on the stand. Yet in their testimony, we can see perhaps a defense strategy emerging.

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: No question about it.

BERMAN: How so?

AKERMAN: What you've got really is a double-whammy defense. The first is speak no evil, hear no evil and say no evil.

BERMAN: Or understand no evil or I didn't say --

AKERMAN: Right. I mean, I didn't know what was going on. I had no idea there were phony financial statements.

And the second part of that defense is the butler did it, the old butler did it defense, somebody else. It was the accountants. It was the lawyers. It wasn't us. We had no idea what was going on.

There are some major problems with that defense. One is that you've already got evidence before the judge from accountants and others and Michael Cohen, who was a lawyer, saying that this was a premeditated plan year after year.

On top of that, you've also got Don Jr. who was certifying all of the statements. He was basically following what has become the standard practice in corporate law now is for the CEO or the CFO to essentially certify that he's kicked the tires on these financials. He's looked at the numbers. He's sat down with people and said, okay, this whole business about Seven Springs, where did you come up with that value? What happened with my dad's apartment? You've got 30,000 square feet and it's really only 11,000 square feet. He didn't do that and the judge is going to see through that in a minute.

Then on top of it, with respect to the other butler involved here, Weisselberg, the guy who really did it, which is what they're going to claim, that person received $2 million from the Trump Organization after he left.

Now, if you look at that $2 million, that's basically what his fine was, what his taxes were and his interest was in terms of his penalty for the criminal case. I mean, that, the government, is going to argue was hush money. It was to keep him quiet.

This was no different than what Nixon did with the Watergate burglars. Back then the hush money was $1 million. Now it's $2 million. In 50 years, you expect a little inflation here.

BOLDUAN: So, this is the sons. This is the defense strategy you're seeing developing with the sons' testimony. What does this mean for Donald Trump? This is a big deal.

AKERMAN: Oh, it's a big deal, absolutely. And I think he's not going to be able to hide behind the Fifth Amendment.

BOLDUAN: You don't think he is?

AKERMAN: No, because his concern is political here. I saw this in Watergate as well. We had all of Nixon's aides go in, testify. Of course, they were all later charged with perjury for having given false testimony.

But I think what Donald Trump has got to do is somehow follow this same defense, that he's not going to say he heard any evil, he didn't speak any evil, et cetera, and he's also going to blame the butler, the same thing, the accountants and lawyers.

[10:25:11]

BERMAN: So, this is a civil case. New York, the New York District attorney, Alvin Bragg, he was this close, this close, we believe, to bringing a criminal case on these same matters here. So, what does Trump need to be careful about testifying on Monday? Where does he need to be careful? Because, presumably, the district attorney is watching this saying, okay, I could reopen this case.

AKERMAN: The only way he can be careful is to take the Fifth and say nothing, and he's not going to do that. I think his calculation is this. I'm already indicted in criminal cases in four different jurisdictions. Are they really going to bring a fifth criminal case based on these allegations? And I think the answer is probably not.

So, if he's smart, and that's assuming a lot, he will make that calculation and go ahead and testify, but, basically, that he didn't see anything, nobody told him anything, he didn't know any of this, and that, oh, Weisselberg is the real culprit here.

BOLDUAN: Nick Ackerman, it's always good to see you. Thank you for coming in. Thank you.

BERMAN: So on top of all this news, just a short time ago, we got new jobs numbers in, which reveal a great deal about where this economy might be going. Is this good news? Is this bad news?

Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]