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Trump Takes Stand In NY Civil Fraud Trial; Trump Delivered Fiery, Combative Testimony In NY Civil Trial. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 06, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:33:48]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: This is CNN's special coverage of Donald Trump testifying in court. The former president is taking the stand in his own defense for the first time in this civil trial, accused of committing a multi-billion-dollar business fraud.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Kara Scannell are outside the courthouse.

Kaitlan, we're on a lunch break now. It certainly got pretty tense.

It's terrific that you are there with Kara, who was actually inside doing extraordinary work to give us an actual play-by-play of what's happening and what will happen again when they resume in about 45 minutes.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Yes. And just to catch you guys up to speed, while Kara and I've been standing out here, we saw one of Trump's attorneys come out to the microphone, speak to reporters.

Essentially kind of doing the same thing, Kara, that Trump himself was doing in the courtroom, which was attacking the judge, attacking the attorney general.

Alina Habba repeatedly went after the attorney general but was also going after the judge. And Alina Habba was saying that Trump should be allowed to answer the question.

[13:35:00]

But what I think is so interesting, we talked about how much they clashed and how tense it was. They're also getting some answers, the A.G.'s office, that could be helpful for their case.

Trump acknowledging that he did play a role in assembling some of these documents with the values for properties that were clearly not accurate.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, these financial statements are what the case is about. It's about they were prepared, the judge said they were fraudulent, and that they were then given to lenders and insurers and others who used them and relied on them. That is why they're so key.

And through the questioning, even as Trump goes off on tangents, he is giving the attorney general's office something to work with.

Unlike his sons, who feigned any knowledge of the financial statements, Trump is saying he was aware of them, until he became president.

He said he was involved with them. He said he would look it over and he would discuss some values with them.

And specifically, he was asked about some of these values, he's acknowledging that the Trump apartment at Trump Tower, that there was a mistake. It was overvalued, he said, and they fixed it.

He also said he thought another property on the financial statement, the Seven Springs, the family compound in New York, he thought that was misvalued on the statement.

So he is talking with some knowledge about this but then he goes off on a tangent, saying how things are worth more than they should be, how they're worth more in the future.

And is not sticking to actually what the question was. That's what the judge is trying to rein in. But he is answering some of these questions very directly.

COLLINS: He keeps going back to this disclosure form, or this disclosure of some of the documents that were prepared, saying, essentially, he believes -- seems to believe it inoculates him from being accused of fraud.

The judge, very flatly, is saying that's not even a factor here, you cannot make that argument, I disagree with that.

SCANNELL: The judge has already ruled, in his ruling before the trial began, that this, as Trump called it, a worthless clause, is itself worthless.

Because this is on the statement where there are disclaimers saying it doesn't comply with certain accounting rules, it doesn't comply with this.

Trump is trying to take that further and say it's telling you that you shouldn't rely on them at all. That is what he's testifying to, saying, as he put it, they weren't very important. You made it important, but it just wasn't important.

So really trying to say these were statements that were, like, nice to have around, but that the banks wouldn't rely on them.

He's also previewing a bit of what we may see if his lawyers do, in fact, put on a defense case. He's saying, we're going to hear from bankers who say they didn't rely on these statements, you're going to hear from some experts who disagree with how some of these things were valued. So sitting on a little bit of a preview. But saying that, in fact --

the judge is saying that that clause is worthless. And the judge even said to Trump, maybe you should read my ruling. I already said it was worthless.

COLLINS: Yes. And it's very clear, of course, that Trump personally deeply cares about this.

Kara, I know you'll be back in the courtroom. It's fascinating to hear your insights from inside that room.

They are on a break right now, but Trump will be returning to the witness stand in just a matter of moments. CNN will have special live coverage of that right after this quick break.

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[13:41:26]

BASH: Welcome back to our special coverage. Former President Donald Trump on the stand in his New York civil fraud trial.

Trump will be back on the stand in the next hour, after undergoing nearly four hours of what we're hearing is pretty contentious testimony earlier today on the witness stand.

He called the attorney general of New York, Letitia James a, quote, "political hack." Described the New York case as a political witch hunt, and said that she should be ashamed of herself.

BLITZER: Laura Coates and Elliot Williams are still with us.

Laura, based on Trump's clashes with the judge, with everybody else, basically, over there, is he more interested in a political statement as opposed to a legal statement?

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, it's more so political. Because legally speaking, he is way behind the eight ball.

A judge has already ordered and ruled he has lost what is called the motion for summary judgment. Meaning, based on what I've seen so far, you have committed fraud.

The only remaining question is, how expensive is it going to get? Is it $250 million? Will you have your business certificates? Will it be a conservatorship for your own enterprise? Very important points here.

Remember, there are 23 witnesses already, including his two adult sons. You've heard from the CFO. You've heard from Allen Weisselberg as well. All of whom have given various accounts and testimony.

But it has not changed the equation to suggest that there were fraudulent documents, that you were aware that this had happened, that, as an officer of your company, you had a duty to actually ensure they were accurate before you handed them over to somebody else.

Nothing, so far, antics-based, has changed that for this judge, I doubt.

BASH: Elliot, one of the things we were talking about during the break was just a fundamental question, which is the fact that he's testifying at all.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So he actually kind of had to testify here for a big reason.

For the summary judgment order Laura was talking about, there was a big finding made against Donald Trump or the Trump Organization that they had engaged in systemic fraud. They've lost the big aspect of this trial.

Putting the former president on the witness stand is sort of a Hail Mary. So the reason they had to put on both Donald Trump Jr and Eric Trump because that's sort of all they have here.

Now, in some of the other cases, Mar-a-Lago and in Washington, D.C., those are criminal cases. You're a lot less likely to see the defendant testify because you can't make him testify against himself in a criminal case. That's what the Constitution says.

It's a little different here. Normally, you don't want your defendant to testify because it's fraught with peril. Here, they had no choice.

[13:45:06]

COATES: I'm so glad you mentioned the other cases, because you can imagine every prosecutor in the other cases are salivating with every single morsel that's coming out. Why? Because they're wondering if he'll open the door for their own cases.

A statement he might make going a little bit off the rails, but not answering the question -- remember, the judge wants direct answers. His attorneys in the other matters want even more precise and limited responses.

Because everything is tangentially related, and is in the helm of what might touch on everything else, could be used against him in any of the other courtrooms. They're aware of that.

That means anything, from his finances for Alvin Bragg, for example, his conversations about who he is in control of, who he directs, and other contact as well, all very important.

WILLIAMS: We've talked so much today about the word "credibility." When we think about it, people in the common sense, do you think I'm credible, do you like me or not.

BASH: Yes. Yes.

WILLIAMS: No. But regardless of what you think, Dana, in a courtroom, though, credibility is, in effect, the reliability of the statements that a witness has given. Any time -- his lawyer is saying here, any time someone goes in court

and makes a statement that contradicts another statement they make in another trial, that is a hit to the witness' credibility.

So all of those other cases are looking at this testimony and are looking for tiny little places where there might be conflicts that goes to the credibility of future testimony he might give. And it definitely works against him.

COATES: It's already worked against both Don Jr, Eric Trump, likely Donald Trump as well, because they've already given a kind of testimony in the form of a deposition. So that's sworn testimony. And that's also called receipts.

You already had Don Jr asked a question about whether he was aware of misstatements, and then presented, after he gave his answer, with facts that he actually had.

Eric Trump, who said, I'm more with the concrete and construction, here is evidence to suggest otherwise.

Donald Trump, similarly, as you pointed out with Kara and Kaitlan, about statements he made about disclaimers that were given, to suggest, hey, use your own figures, mine, you can maybe or maybe not trust.

All of that is a culmination at a trial, which is why you're very afraid, as a defense attorney, to have your witness take the stand.

And as a prosecutor, you're a little thrilled. It's exhilarating to think about somebody who might be walking into a trap of their own making with little effort and bias on your own part.

BLITZER: Based on what we're hearing, does Trump really understand that his entire business empire -- most of his adult life has been dedicated to try to expand that business empire. Does he understand that it's at stake right now?

COATES: I mean, if he doesn't know, he better ask somebody about it.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Frankly, he certainly should know that.

And he knows that. And here is how you know he knows that. There have been a number of very important trials, one involving E. Jean Carroll, for example, where somebody is accusing him of sexual misconduct.

He wasn't present at that. He wasn't required to be present. But he was not present at that.

Here, he not only has been there on this day, but multiple days, going in front of a courthouse. Because his business empire -- and you've talked about this a lot as well, Dana -- is his political currency and vice-versa. Forget the quarter of a billion dollars at stake. There is a quarter

of a presidential election year that, for him, is at stake as well. He wants four more years.

And part of that requires the American electorate to buy into his business acumen. He's in control. He is somebody who, but for him, you would be attacking them.

If that goes away, if Donald Trump has a conservatorship over his business empire, do you trust him to be the commander-in-chief? That's a question for the voters.

BLITZER: Good question.

All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

And minutes from now, former President Trump will retake the stand in the New York civil fraud trial. Our live special coverage continues after a quick break.

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[13:53:40]

BLITZER: This is CNN's special coverage of Donald Trump testifying in court. The former president is taking the stand in his own defense for the first time in his civil trial, accused of committing a multi- billion business fraud.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is outside the courthouse in New York for us.

Kaitlan, I know they're on a lunch break right now. Update our viewers on what we know.

COLLINS: Yes, could I tell you something unusual that kind of strays from Trump's familiar patterns when he's been here in court?

Because he has come to trial here before. He sat in the audience and listened alongside as other witnesses were on the stand and being questioned either by his attorneys or the prosecutors in this case.

He hasn't always been quiet there. He often has spoken to his attorneys, little asides, and then having them stand up and object or make a comment.

But one thing he has not done here that he did previously was speak pretty regularly during the breaks.

We saw him speak this morning as he was going into the courtroom, basically saying exactly what the attorney general, when she was over here on the steps behind me, had predicted he was going to say.

And referencing that new "New York Times" polling, talking about the 2024 election. But since then, he has not addressed the cameras.

He came out after that quite testy first hour inside the courtroom when it seemed like the judge was on the verge essentially of dismissing him from the witness stand.

[13:55:02]

He made a zipping sound -- a zipping motion with his mouth. On his way back in, he gave a thumbs up. But other than that, he has not spoken to the cameras.

The question of whether that changes once he is off the witness stand in just a few hours from now -- because we know this is only slated to go until about 4:30 p.m. -- that remains to be seen.

But his attorney, Alina Habba, who is one of several who are there in the room with him, did come and speak to reporters a few moments ago.

Our friend, Vaughn Hilliard, over at NBC, asked her if, given what the judge has so clearly said that he was so frustrated with these tangents that Trump was going on when he was being asked what the judge thought was yes-or-no questions, if she would counsel him from doing that, she would counsel him to refrain from doing that.

She said she would not be counseling him not to do so, not necessarily that he takes the advice of his legal counsel. We know he doesn't take it to heart.

We'll see what happens when he returns to the stand, though, in just a few moments from now.

BASH: Critical caveat there, at the end.

Kaitlan, thank you so much.

We're going to sneak in a quick break. Stay with CNN. Our live special coverage continues in a moment.

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