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Trump Finishes Testimony In New York Civil Fraud Trial; Trump Speaks After Taking The Stand In NY Civil Fraud Trial; NY Attorney General Speaks After Trump Testifies In Civil Fraud Trial. Aired 3:30- 4p ET

Aired November 06, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

PAULA REID, CNN HOST: No, I'm ordering you. You can't even do that. It is their right to file motions as they choose to do. Now it does appear, based on our reporting from our colleagues in the courtroom, that the judge has backed off of that and now will allow them to file this motion.

But it's just another example of how unusual today has been in court. The judge was very active trying to keep control of the courtroom, backed off of that. But then again, at the end, now he's making jokes about how this was, quote, a love fest. But the idea that he was trying to block lawyers representing today's witness from filing a motion, highly unusual, he backed off of that. But just another strange moment in a highly unusual and historic day.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And Paula, please stand by. Laura, I want to get you a read on that Judge Engoron seems just fed up with everything that he's seen. What do you make of him ordering attorneys to not file motions?

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: You know, it is the right of any litigant to file appropriate motions based on the evidence and they have to preserve certain things during the trial proceedings, otherwise they are lost forever on appeal. You cannot raise arguments for the very first time on appeal and the 99 situations. So they have to preserve all those things and part of the way it's done is in writing to say, here are the arguments. Not only because it makes it a more thoughtful, not off the cuff discussion, but it allows the judge to respond to it as well.

The clerk that they have criticized throughout this entirety of the trial is also the person who will help the judge to get their arms around the law to figure out if there is fact checking that is required in real time and then to render a decision. So for closing that could be quite erroneous in the long run. It does though seem as though the judge is very irritated to say the least.

Which is a very interesting notion because the judge should be very conditioned to, not only grapple with antics. But of this particular defendant as well. Over several months, he's ruled a number of different things. And so he has to be very cautious about showing his irritation in a way that might influence his judgement. I don't think that's happening as at this point in time, but -- and by the way, for people who have not been in courtrooms, judges, no offense, are notoriously irritated at all things at all times. For every single reason. So having a judge be a little bit bombastic and expressing that is not the oddity of the world.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, if Trump's attorney is just asking for clarification of the gag order. I mean, isn't that legitimate? You know, we we'd like some more details on what we can and cannot say. So we don't violate the gag order cause we don't want to violate the gag order.

COATES: It's also telling him, though, that I intend to violate the gag order. So I want to know (CROSSTALK) how connected the line I can get before I violate the gag order.

BORGER: And also and also at the same time saying, by the way, we're going to go for a mistrial. so it's, you know.

COATES: Well, maybe we're watching this courtroom door because at any moment, can you give us the ruling so we can go in front of the room door and then make whatever maybe actually to make. It is not possible, it's all or a mistrial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it's still happening.

COATES: It's crazy times, but I have to tell you. Yes, to answer your question, yes, a litigant has every right to file the motions. We have motion practice for a reason. It's part of due process. Everything is not handled on your feet. A lot of it is written and they have a right to file the motion. However, they cannot engage in frivolous motion practice and they cannot engage in behavior that that mucks up the court docket. Delays proceedings renders efficiency in the courtroom completely hopeless. Just to get an opportunity to then show that to a court of public opinion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then who's going to rule on the mistrial the judge.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Well, they can do all of that unless the judge shuts it down, which may be what we're seeing here. All right, we're going to get in a quick break. We are awaiting to hear from some officials, also from the former president himself. We'll be right back with that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:38:30]

KEILAR: The former president, speaking now.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think went very well. I think if you were there and you listened and you weren't scammed. This is a case that should have never been brought. It's a case that should be dismissed. Immediately for fraud was on behalf of the court. The court was -- the fraudster in this case, they made references to assets that were very valuable. And they said, they have no idea. They had no idea what the numbers were when they said $18 million for Mar-a-Lago. And it's 50 to 100 times that amount by any estimation. It's a terrible thing that's happening here. We're taking days and days and weeks and weeks. Is goes on and then you look at the outside world and what's happening.

But of course they're getting their wish because I don't have to be here for the most part, but I sort of do have to be here. Because I want to be here. Because it's a scam. And this is a case that should have never been brought and it's a case that now should be dismissed.

Everybody saw what happened today. Everybody saw what happened with their star witness, who admitted that I never told him what he originally said I did. He admitted that he lied and he has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. That's their only witness. That's their only witnesses. And I think you saw what I had to say today. And it was very conclusive. Everything we did was absolutely right.

[15:40:00]

To think that we're being sued and spending all this time and money and you have people being killed all over the world that this country could stop. With inflation and all of the other problems that this country has, I think it's a disgrace.

And when you look at the numbers, the phone numbers that came out today from the "New York Times" and CBS, I'm sure the "Times" was not too happy. But people are sick and tired of what's happening. This is a sad -- I think it's a very sad day for America.

But anyway, it's the case that should have never been brought and it's a case that should be immediately dismissed. Thank you. Thank you very much.

SANCHEZ: We were just listening to former President Donald Trump there exiting the courtroom after a historic day of chaotic testimony on the stand. At multiple times testing the judge, the former president, arguing that this is a political witch hunt, as he has many times before. And then also stepping back and talking about politics. Talking about inflation, pole numbers. At one point seeming to make reference to the Middle East as well, saying that, quote, people are dying all over this world and this country can stop it -- end quote and instead in his mind, they are focused on him.

KEILAR: Yes, he was saying, too, that they're wasting money on this when it can be better spent. Which in itself is questionable -- if we can bring the panel into this --because he spent a lot of money that even some in his own party have criticized him for spending. But I just wonder, you know, let's talk about the legal angle of this. First, Laura Coates, what did you think about what you just heard?

COATES: I think he's hoping that the term, they, will be as ambiguous as he needs it to be politically. To suggest that that it's one and the same. The Department of Justice, Jack Smith, Fanie Willis, Alvin Bragg, Letitia James. Each very distinct entities with good reason. But as long as he puts it all collectively under one umbrella, it can but trust the argument that he is in a political witch hunt. It's not exactly accurate at all, though, is it? And so all the

comments he's making in terms of what they can be doing instead -- I note one in particular -- crime. He's raised it more than once, particularly in New York and in Washington, DC almost every place he has an actual active investigation or prosecution to suggest that somehow this is a misuse of resources and a prosecutorial decision to focus only and target on him.

In reality, there are a lot of criminal prosecutions happening in each of these jurisdictions. We may be focusing, of course, on Donald Trump and the historic nature of something like this but believe there are many prosecutors who are still working on that one is -- the fact, is Letitia James working on the civil side as she went and leaves the courthouse. Excuse me. So I think I cannot give a lot of credence to this notion that any of this is an either or for criminal or civil prosecutions, both can be true. They can focus on other matters and prosecute violations of the law.

SANCHEZ: As we anticipate, we're going to hear from the Attorney General in just a few moments. Nia, one of the things that stuck out to me about what Trump was saying outside the courtroom is again referencing the valuation of his assets. Saying that the Attorney General's office had no idea what the numbers were. It seems to be a very sensitive spot for him. How much he owns and what it's worth.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean listen, you know, sort of size matters to Donald Trump. The size of his assets, the size of his business, the size of his, you know, his name. He can't deal psychologically with the idea that he isn't as valuable as he believes in his own mind. Right. Couldn't deal, for instance, with the fact that he lost in 2020. Couldn't deal with the fact in 2016 that he lost the popular vote even though he won on the map.

You know, this is theater for Donald Trump. You really have to think of him as an actor who's repeating all the same lines, which very often happen to be lies. But you know, he's able to convince folks who support him of this idea that there's a witch hunt. And so now he's able to actually sort of participate in this and go to court. He doesn't have to be there, right? But for him, the sort of theater aspect of it makes sense because it makes this idea real, that this is a witch hunt, that people are out to get him.

So you see Tish James there. She's the one who's out to get him, and he has to sit in court and sort of battle the judge. And he comes out and he essentially says the same thing, right, that he's been saying for years. The same things that he's been saying on Truth Social, that she's a racist, that this is a witch hunt. So, you know, I think in that way it sort of works for him better politically then it would if he were, say, in Iowa, shaking hands with voters.

BORGER: You know, it's so important to note that he's been there so much because it really tells you how he views this and this is his own brand. This is his own identity. This is who he believes he is and has always believed he is from the day his father handed him a business to now. [15:45:05]

Which is that he is a successful businessman. That's how he ran for president. You know, I can fix the country. Look at -- I'm rich. I ran this great business. Anything that threatens that is a personal threat to him, you know, it's personal. It's not business, it's personal.

And so that's why this was such a difficult line for him to walk because he was the guy in charge. He was the guy making decisions. Yet on the other hand, he had to distance himself sometimes saying, you know, well, you know, accountants make these decisions. He didn't do it as much as his sons, but it was, you know, it was a very difficult line. Because if you're this grand corporate CEO, very successful. How do you disengage from your business on these matters? How do you say, you know well, you know, some things were up to them. I make suggestions. Well, that doesn't point to a company that's well run or a business that's well run. So, you know, it was -- it was difficult for him today. And he might have done himself some damage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I also wonder I find it a little odd that there's no --

KEILAR: All right, let's -- if we can let's listen in real quick as the AG speaks.

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: We heard from Donald Trump and our case against him, other defendants and the Trump Organization. He rambled. He herald -- hurled insults, but we expected that. At the end of the day, the documentary evidence demonstrated that in fact, he falsely inflated his assets to basically enrich himself and his family. He continued to persistently engage in fraud.

The numbers don't lie, and Mr. Trump obviously can engage in all of these distractions, and that what is what exactly what he did, what he committed on the stand today. Engaged -- engaging in distractions and engaging in name calling. But I will not be bullied. I will not be harassed. This case will go on. We look forward to hearing the testimony of Ivanka Trump on Wednesday. And then we will plan on closing our case and then there will be some motions on Thursday. And then the defense will present their case in Chief. Justice will prevail and it's important that all of you understand that we have already been victorious in our motion for summary judgment. And now we look forward to disgorgement and to the remaining counts in our action against Donald Trump and his repeated and consistent fraud against the citizens of the great state of New York.

KEILAR: The AG making an important point there, Laura, that they have been successful in summary judgment, right. So despite the spectacle of what we have seen today, it's not necessarily about what Donald Trump made it about today.

COATES: You know, an effective prosecution cannot rely on that Perry Mason moment, or one witness or one document that is obviously in so many times, what happens, fictionalized, but not in reality. You have to have really a whole lot of evidence to prove your case. Because your burden of proof, although lower than the criminal context, is quite high in and of itself.

And so, they've already been 23 witnesses before Donald Trump today, including a former CFO, including Alan Weisselberg as well, including his two adult sons who have officer positions in the company and documents that are all parties and the summary judgment motion. The indictment that was like 222 pages. You're talking about a bevy of evidence on that on that front.

The other part of this, I am a little bit surprised that Donald Trump's team did not cross examine him. That's their opportunity to do so, which in fact they are -- it's either the prosecution or others would not do so. Because their role is to using cross to rehabilitate somebody if there was a flaw and what they had to say to try to bring it to the forefront and say, you said this, how do you mean this? The entirety of a cross is really more of the lawyer speaking into existence. What is that wanting to only get a head nod or a yes and no response. To give that person opportunity to have a leg up once again, that's not happening here.

And remember, he's got a rally I think on Wednesday. The court was closed tomorrow I think because of the Election Day. But on Wednesday, there's a rally that would have been opportunity for him maybe keep going. Keep on the stand, go from the courthouse to the rally, even delay his daughter Ivanka's testimony in some respects. None of that seems to be happening right now. So I do wonder about the machinations of the counsel. Do they think that that was effective enough? Or are they saying enough, cut bait.

SANCHEZ: Let's go back outside the courthouse because CNN's Kara Scannell was there for us live.

[15:50:00]

And Kara, really interesting moments laid out throughout the day from the start right up until the very end.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, that's right. I mean, the former president being asked to be held to account about his financial statements, they're the ones that the judge has already said are fraudulent. And under questioning, Trump did acknowledge that he was aware of some of these values, saying that in fact, he knew that there were some mistakes in the financial statements. Particularly the value of his triplex apartment, which the Attorney General's office alleged was valued at being 30,000 square feet versus the 10,000 square feet. Trump acknowledged that that was a mistake. But he said that there were -- that these financial statements were prepared by the accountants. That he relied on them. That he paid them millions of dollars to do this job. So they did get him to acknowledge that he did have some involvement. He was aware of these statements. He did sign certifications to banks indicating that he -- his net worth was worth more than 2.5 billion dollars. That was a key piece for this, for the Attorney General to focus on those financial statements in this case.

As you can hear, there are sirens around me. I think the former president will be getting ready to leave the courthouse soon. But the after the after it is all said and done, Trump was on the stand for a little less than four hours today, where he was providing this testimony. Now the Attorney General's office say, next up they will call Ivanka Trump on Wednesday. Trump's lawyers said they do intend to question her. They haven't questioned Trump. They didn't question any of the sons because they're all defendants in this case. But they said that they do expect to question Ivanka Trump. Her testimony, they said, will go into Thursday, and that is when Trump's team will make some of their motions, including a motion for a mistrial in this case.

But Donald Trump, wrapping up this day of testimony. He both answered their questions, but he used it as an opportunity to make some of these political attacks that he has made outside of the courtroom. He's now bringing it inside, putting it on the record, calling this a witch hunt, attacking the judge in his rulings in this case, while he was seated just a few feet from him -- Boris, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Kara, thank you so much. And again to the point of what he was saying, Nia, about they lumping this case in with the other cases. Do his supporters believe this is all just a conspiracy against him? All of the cases together that they're just sort of, you know, getting together and plotting this all against him.

HENDERSON: I think that's exactly right. That has been his argument to his supporters for years and years and years. He repeats it ad nauseam. Right. I mean, I think at some point the judge himself was saying, you know, he has to sound like a broken record because he has to interrupt Donald Trump repeating ad nauseam these attacks on the judge in the system.

There is a core belief among Donald Trump supporters in a in a decent, you know, portion of Americans that believe that people like Donald Trump are the sort of new victims, right. That they are actually the victims of racism and sexism, white men. Right. And so that's why you hear Donald Trump sort of invoking this whole idea of racism. It sort of helps his argument -- I put helps that Tish James is Black. It helps that Alvin Bragg is Black. It helps that Fanie Willis is Black because it makes real this argument that these Black people who are in power are now out to get this very powerful white man who is fighting, right, for the interests of this movement that he likes to talk about. That is primarily made-up of white Americans.

SANCHEZ: So -- go ahead, Gloria.

BORGER: I have a question though, you know, Trump has the most loyal supporters we've ever seen in politics, right? They don't go anywhere. They're for him 100 percent. But in that "New York Times" poll, we've all been talking about, which showed, you know, Trump beating Joe Biden in four key states. There was also a part of that poll which asked people if Donald Trump were convicted, would you change your mind about him? And it was in single digits -- it might have been 5 or 6 percent, I believe of the of people said, yes, that might make me change my mind.

Now we don't know whether that would be the case. We don't know whether it would be the case in this -- in this case, cause it wasn't a jury trial, for example. But we also don't know what would happen if he were convicted in Georgia. And so, I do think that while his people are the most loyal, that there is a little bit of wiggle room there given what the outcome of these trials turn out to be.

SANCHEZ: So Laura stepping back and looking at the whole of Donald Trump's testimony, do you think prosecutors got what they wanted?

COATES: I think they were able to establish the criteria to suggest that these were material misrepresentations. Meaning that they were knowingly false. That the people who had a duty to check them did not do so. And delegation is not going to do away with your responsibility as an officer of a corporation.

And I think that they have made the case in terms of the amount of money that's at stake here.

[15:55:00]

But there are still more witnesses to hear from, and the defense has a right to put on their case. And all of that is incumbent upon the judge to hear with an open mind. Everyone at this table, I don't care how anyone America votes, we ought to all believe in due process and due process does require that everything be heard before the judge actually has a ruling on it.

Summary judgment motion, different story. Why? Because that's an instance when the judge says, even if everything you've told me is what you say to be true, it is so objectively wrong. Either the apartment is 1 square foot or a million square feet. Either you've got rent control apartments in your units, or you do not. These are really black and white facts. The wiggle room comes in the financial liability.

KEILAR: Yes, it is an extraordinary day of testimony with Donald Trump on the stand in this fraud case in New York about the valuation of his assets as he was seeking loans. We will be continuing to follow this on CNN. Laura, Nia, Gloria, thank you so much to all of you.

And "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after this short break.