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Five GOP Candidates Preparing For Third Primary Debate; Father Learns Daughter Is Likely A Hamas Hostage; Supreme Court Reviews Federal Ban On Guns For Domestic Abusers. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 07, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Do these boots are made for lying? That's the nature of this campaign video. And she says that Ron DeSantis is going to lie about his record of the debate. But the very title, which you can't see here, these boots are made for lying refers to this sort of social media meme that's been going after Governor DeSantis's footwear suggesting that he wears lifts or something. I just -- what do you make of this hard-hitting attack from Governor Haley?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's a continuation of what she did at the last debate. I mean, she was taking on allcomers at the last debate. She had harsh words for Trump. She took on DeSantis. She took on Tim Scott.

I mean, she was really kind of firing at everybody on the stage trying to take control of the non-Trump lane of the primary. She hasn't quite done that yet. DeSantis is still very much alive and well and kicking, if you will, in that -- in that lane right.

Now, the trouble for both of them, of course, is Donald Trump still very popular and still very dominant in this party primary. And so, to me, the real question tonight is, is this as an academic exercise? Is Trump already locked this thing down? And there's a lot of Republican voters who think that's true.

BERMAN: That's the question. What do you think the answer is to that question?

JENNINGS: I would say, right now, what you're seeing in the national polls visa vie Trump and Joe Biden is convincing Republicans that they don't need to make a strategic choice. I mean, for a lot of months in this primary, the theory was, well, Republicans will go against Trump. They like him, but they want to vote for somebody who can win.

Well, now you got everybody in the national media and all this polling saying, well, Trump's beating Biden. So, you know, for a Republican, it's like, well, I didn't -- why don't I just nominate the person I like, not the person that I sort of like? And I think that's what's, you know, sort of vaulting Trump forward here.

And tonight, somebody is going to have to make an argument about why they would be better than Trump, that this theory that Donald Trump is disliked, or that there's people who want to jettison them out of the party. It's not currently backed up by the polls. So, I suspect Haley and DeSantis will be -- will be fighting over that argument tonight.

BERMAN: You mentioned that I think the New York Times Siena poll, which shows that Donald Trump is beating Joe Biden in five of the six key swing states. But it shows that Nikki Haley would be Joe Biden by even more, so she might lean into that I am more -- even if Donald Trump is electable, I'm more electable. Maybe she can lean in there. Do you think she'll go after Trump? Do you think this is it that this is the night when if not Haley then DeSantis, you know, they need to take on the front-runner more directly?

JENNINGS: Well, she already has taken on Trump. In fact, a lot more than I would have anticipated throughout this debate season, she really has kind of, I think, absorbed the mantle of the true anti- Trump candidate in the race, even more than Chris Christie in some ways. The question is, is that enough to ultimately dispatch your opponents, and man, is that enough to like, actually win a Republican primary?

There's a lot of evidence that if you know, Ron DeSantis or some of these other folks dropped out, that there are people, you know wouldn't automatically go to her. A lot of them would go to Trump.

BERMAN: Yes.

JENNINGS: I mean, these folks are not necessarily locked into doing something other than Trump. And so, at some point, yes, I do think she probably will take it to him. But there has to be an appeal to people who like Donald Trump to say, hey, I know you like him, but we got to do something else. That's that strategic argument, which is really made difficult by the -- by the national polling right now that shows Trump in a pretty strong position visa vie Biden.

BERMAN: Yes. Talk more about what you were just referencing there. This is sort of the Kate Bolduan corollary because she's been talking about this a lot. The idea that people call for consolidation in Republican primaries, I think it's a little bit of the after-effects of 2016.

If only other people would get out of the race and someone could take Trump on one-on-one, do you think that that's actually a way to beat Trump? Do you think that consolidating the field would actually give someone a chance to beat him?

JENNINGS: Well, if they feel consolidated down to somebody that most Republicans liked, it would give them a fighting chance. The problem is, even if that consolidation took place right now, there's not a ton of evidence that Trump is sinking or that his image is degrading. I mean, remember underpinning all of this, is that Republicans quite liked Donald Trump.

And one of the main problems they had with him after 2020 or even 2022 was, well, you know, we like him, but he's going to lead us to more and more losses. And right now, his campaign has pretty strong evidence that that may not be the case in 2024, that Joe Biden is circling the drain, and we're going to beat him no matter what. And so, that destabilizes this, you know, strategic, let's consolidate, and then we'll see that the Republican Party really doesn't like Donald Trump.

There's just -- there's not a lot of polling evidence for that right now. And you know, all these legal travails, everything happening to him, it continues to propel him forward, and his campaign is projecting a lot of confidence about it at the moment. But we'll have a spirited conversation tonight and see if Haley or DeSantis can take control of this thing. By the way, it may also be the last opportunity for Tim Scott here having he's going to have an aggressive posture, but he needs to show the Republicans something if he wants to hang around much longer.

BERMAN: Scott Jennings, always great to see you. Thanks so much. Kate?

JENNINGS: Thank you.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up for us. One father describing the tragic roller coaster that he has been on, first told that his 8-year- old daughter was killed by Hamas terrorists, only now to learn that she may be alive and held hostage. His story is next.

[11:35:17]

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BOLDUAN: There are so many heartbreaking stories that we've heard coming from the Hamas terror attack in Israel. One family's story that CNN has followed closely is that of a father of an 8-year8old girl who told CNN in an interview that he was relieved when he learned his daughter was killed in the October 7 Hamas attack in Israel because he believed her being held alive and hostage in Gaza would be a fate worse than death when it comes to Hamas. But now, Israeli officials have informed him that his daughter was most likely kidnapped and taken alive by Hamas to Gaza. Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.

[11:40:16]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THOMAS HAND, HAMAS ATTACK SURVIVOR: From the morning of the seventh until now is a nightmare roller coaster tragedy.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): The anguish Thomas Hand is about to describe has left him trembling for weeks. It's a journey of death and a hope of resurrection, he says, is impossible to imagine.

HAND: On the day, it was Russian Roulette, whether you made it or not.

LAVANDERA (voiceover): On October 7, Hamas fighters stormed the Kibbutz Be'eri, killing roughly 130 people and ravaging the community of 1100 residents. That morning, Thomas's 8-year-old daughter Emily was sleeping at a friend's house. Thomas could not reach her as Hamas fighters took over the kibbutz. Days after the attack, the Irish-born father spoke with CNN's Clarissa Ward about the moment he was told his daughter had been killed.

CLARRISA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thomas waited two agonizing days before getting the news.

HAND: They just said we found Emily. She's dead. And I went, yes. Oh, yes. I'm smiled because that is the best news of the possibilities that I knew.

She'd be in a dark room filled with -- Christ knows how many people, and terrified every minute, hour, day, and possible years to come. So, death was a blessing. An absolute blessing.

LAVANDERA (voiceover): Thomas says leaders of the Be'eri Kibbutz community told him Emily's body was seen in the aftermath. But almost a month after the massacre, Thomas was given news that almost made him collapse. He says the Israeli army told him it's highly probable Emily is alive and a Hamas hostage.

LAVANDERA: How were you told the news that Emily might be alive?

HAND: That was official from the army. With all the information that they have, the intelligence that they have, it's very likely that she has been taken to Gaza.

LAVANDERA (voiceover): Thomas says he has been told Emily's body is not with the remains of victims and that there was no blood found inside the home where she slept the night before. Thomas also says that cell phones belonging to the family Emily was staying with had been trapped inside Gaza.

LAVANDERA: When you spoke with Clarissa Ward a few weeks ago, you said death would be a blessing in this situation.

HAND: That's how I felt at the time. Yes.

LAVANDERA: How do you describe where you are now?

HAND: Extremely worried about her, obviously, what conditions she's been held in. She's, you know more than likely in a -- in a tunnel somewhere under Gaza. Your imagination is -- it's horrible.

And it's her birthday on the 17th of this month. She'll be 9. She won't even know what day it is. She won't know what day it is. Right now, it's her birthday. To be no birthday cake, no party, no friends, you just be petrified in a tunnel under Gaza, that's her birthday.

LAVANDERA (voiceover): Thomas is now flooded with the hope and the despair of what his daughter might be enduring. He prays she can somehow hear these words to her.

HAND: If Emily is watching, just to let her know that we love her. All of us. We're all waiting for her to come back safely.

LAVANDERA (voiceover): The survivors of the Be'eri Kibbutz are temporarily living in a hotel. In the lobby, there's a vigil to all the kidnapped hostages. Now, Emily's family says the young girl's photo will be placed next to the others.

LAVANDERA: You described as being a hostage as worse than death. HAND: I believe so. It's the unknown is awful. The waiting is awful. But that's what we've got to do now. Just pray and hope that she comes back in some broken state, but we can fix her. I will fix us somehow.

LAVANDERA: Do you allow yourself now to think about holding Emily again?

HAND: In my head, I can see -- you know, like a beach scene her running to me and me running to her. Just picking her up. Never letting her go.

LAVANDERA (voiceover): Ed Lavandera, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[11:45:11]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. Happening now. The Supreme Court is hearing arguments on a major Second Amendment case over whether the government can deny access to firearms for those placed under a domestic violence restraining order.

CNN's Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid is outside the course. One of the justice -- courthouse, I should say. What are the justices heard so far, Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, they've heard arguments for a little over a hundred minutes right now. And this is the first big Second Amendment case that has gone before the High Court since the conservative majority issued a decision a little over a year ago that really threatened gun restrictions nationwide.

[11:50:08]

At the heart of this case is a man from Texas who was accused of domestic violence after an altercation with his girlfriend. He was then subjected to a restraining order. And under federal law, people who are subjected to restraining orders cannot possess firearms. But this man then went on a subsequent shooting spree, a series of shooting events. Law enforcement searched his home and found multiple firearms and he was convicted under federal law.

But he has been fighting this. Arguing that this is unconstitutional. And in the wake of the Supreme Court's decision a little over a year ago, the Fifth Circuit agreed with him.

Now look, John, I think gun advocates -- gun rights advocates would agree. This is not exactly the poster boy that they would wish for. This guy is a domestic abuser. He is a drug dealer. In one of those subsequent shootings, he just started firing off gun -- his gun at Whataburger after his friend's credit card was declined. But they are trying to focus less on him as a person, and more on the fact that he was subject to a restraining order, but he was never convicted of domestic violence. But I will also note. Restraining orders are important tools for law enforcement when it comes to dealing with domestic violence. And every month in this country, 70 women are shot and killed by an intimate partner.

BERMAN: Paula, explain the legal standard now -- the precedent standard that is sort of framing these arguments on both sides.

REID: Yes. Well, that's actually what they're asking -- the justices, to clarify. The Justice Department is asking the High Court to clarify their decision. Because this often happens. They issue a decision, and then there's a little bit of confusion among the courts.

The Justice Department, a lawyer who's arguing on their behalf is asked the court, look, did you really mean that we need to go back to the founding of our country and find an apples-for-apples comparison to this law in order for it to be upheld, or were you speaking more broadly, about principles that we have in this nation? I mean they are trying to seek clarity and emphasize that there is a national interest in protecting people from dangerous individuals like this man, even if they have not been convicted.

However, this man's attorneys are also arguing well, they can see it. That this is a dangerous individual, they say, that under that decision -- under that Supreme Court decision from 2022, that you do, in fact, need to find a comparable law. So, they're specifically asking for clarity on that decision.

How widely does this extend? What exactly did you mean? And it'll be a while before we get a decision from the court here, but it will be important, particularly for those lower courts, as they now begin to reevaluate a lot of gun restrictions across the country.

BERMAN: Any of the justices asked any questions that clarify what they might be focused on at this point?

REID: It did appear that the Chief Justice was looking for what kind of tests, right? They love to issue test that helps the court sort of work through these questions. It did appear that he was looking at both sides to say, hey, what kind of test would you apply here? What exactly is it you are asking us to do?

Many of the justices did if you're open to offering some clarification to that 2022 decision. But again, it's going to take a while for them to get together and agree on exactly how much clarification they want to give the country.

BERMAN: Paula Reid, great to have you outside the courthouse explaining things so clearly. Really appreciate it. Kate.

BOLDUAN: This morning, police are investigating the death of a Jewish man who died after dueling pro-Israel pro-Palestinian demonstrations in Thousand Oaks, California. Police say 69-year-old Paul Kessler, that he fell and hit his head after an altercation with a counter- protester, later dying from his injuries. Now, police are searching for who was involved. CNN's Stephanie Elam has more on this, the investigation, and what we know and don't. Stephanie, what are police saying?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Kate, what we understand is that this happened Sunday afternoon at this busy intersection of Thousand Oaks, which is northwest of Los Angeles. And what the law enforcement officials are saying is that Kessler had fallen backwards and hit his head. We do have a little bit of video where you can see where this happened, and you can see that he's down on the ground in this aftermath of what has transpired.

Now, what they're saying is that they don't know what led up to this altercation. They don't know -- here's the video so you can see that. They don't know how many people were involved, no suspect has been named, but law enforcement saying that they are not ruling out a hate crime. And this little bit that we've blurred here, you can see this one woman with the Palestinian flag is bending down semi to check on the man. But we know though is that Kessler was taken to the hospital and died from his injuries yesterday.

And deputies say that, at this point, they're looking for any more information. They're hoping that anyone who have -- may have any cell phone video that they will come for. They do believe that this was an isolated incident, and the investigation is ongoing. However, the autopsy did reveal that this blunt force trauma is what led to Kessler's death and that the manner of death has been ruled a homicide at this point.

[11:55:09]

But they are also saying that -- talking to nearby rabbis who CNN has talked to a nearby rabbi as well, he says that he has heard conflicting reports as far as law enforcement is concerned. And he's asking everyone to be patient while they get more information in on this investigation, and while the investigation continues. To that end, we've also heard from the Council on American Islamic Relations, the executive director putting out a statement and it's just basically saying that they're at -- that they're saddened by this, and that they really do want people to wait before they jump to conclusions while they're already dealing with unnecessarily high tensions at this time. Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Stephanie, it's just so sad. Thank you so much for the update.

BERMAN: All right, a lot of news today. Thank you all for joining us. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

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