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Interview With Gov. Andy Beshear (D-KY); Republican Presidential Candidates Set to Debate Without Trump; Democrats Celebrate Big Election Night Wins; Ivanka Trump Testifies in New York. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 08, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:15]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Happening now, Ivanka Trump under oath, testifying in the civil fraud trial against the Trump Organization. We have a new update on what she just said on the stand.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: And when it comes to abortion rights, the message from voters after last night: Can you hear me now? The seventh consecutive election where attempts to further restrict abortion access have been rejected since the Supreme Court stepped in.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: And, tonight, we're down to five. Five Republican presidential candidates are going to face off on the debate stage in Miami, Trump, the front-runner, skipping out once again to take the spotlight elsewhere, just down the street, by the way.

I'm Sara Sidner with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: All right, happening now, at this moment, Ivanka Trump is on the witness stand in a New York courtroom. She's been there for nearly an hour or so, testifying in the civil fraud trial against her father and the family business.

Now, she is no longer a defendant herself in this case, but she is clearly important to the state's case, as she is their final witness. We have new information about what she is being asked and how she is answering.

Let's get right to seeing as chief legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid.

So, what's happening now Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, so far, this appearance has been quite a contrast to her father's appearance on the witness stand earlier this week, which was quite combative and chaotic.

Now, the questions have focused on her time at the Trump Organization. She left the family business in 2017, when she went to the White House, but the government has been asking her questions about specific projects that she worked on while she was there. They have been focused, for example, on the old post office building

here in Washington, D.C., which was converted into a hotel. That was a project that she worked on. And she said that, yes, she did profit from its eventual sale in 2022. She did not disclose how much she made. We have previously reported it was around $4 million.

But they have also been asking her about other projects, like the Doral resort and spa down in Florida. And they are especially interested in how financing was secured for these properties, her role in that, because it really gets to the heart of the case, specifically, loans that were received from Deutsche Bank.

And these loans had quite favorable terms. They were granted, those kinds of loans, based on Trump's purported net worth. And that gets to the heart of this case, the allegation that he did not accurately represent the value of his assets to get more favorable terms on loans and from insurance companies.

So, so far, the questioning, it has been very civilized. It has been very technical. That's pretty much what we expected from this witness. As you said, Ivanka is no longer a co-defendant in this case, but the attorney general's office has been seeking to secure her testimony, even though she's tried several different times to get out of making this appearance.

Before today's proceedings gone under way, the attorney general addressed cameras to talk about why they wanted to hear from Ivanka.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: We uncovered the scheme, and she benefited from it personally.

And Ms. Trump will do all that she can to try to separate herself from this corporation, but she's inextricably tied to the Trump Organization and to these properties that she helped secure financing for. So, you cannot hide from the truth, and the facts will belie the truth and the evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And no cameras in the courtroom while Ivanka is testifying, but we have our colleagues in the courtroom giving us live updates about what she says.

[11:05:03]

She is expected to be the prosecution's last witness in this case.

BERMAN: All right, keep us posted. Again, she is on the stand right now. You will keep bringing us more information as this testimony develops.

Paula Reid, thank you -- Sara. SIDNER: All right, let's continue this conversation now with former assistant special Watergate prosecutor Nick Akerman. He's also the former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

OK, we watched Ivanka Trump walk in like she owned the place.

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: Right.

SIDNER: She's now on the stand, a very different moment. Most people get very nervous when you're sitting there and having to be questioned under oath.

I am curious,. She's the fourth member of the Trump family to testify. What are they going to try to get out of her? Because she is not -- in this case, she was taken out of this case as a defendant.

AKERMAN: Well, she does add some important elements here.

For example, she was the principal person for the Trump Organization that did the negotiations for the old post office building that was turned into that hotel that Donald Trump used to house various foreign diplomats to get lots of money for himself while he was president.

But what she really did was, in negotiating with Deutsche Bank for the loan, $170 million loan, it was very clear that Deutsche Bank wanted personal financial statements from Donald Trump, not only to make the $170 million loan, but to keep it going all of those years. And the reason is obvious.

Donald Trump filed for bankruptcy six different times. And what it does is, it undercuts his testimony last week that the banks really didn't care. They clearly cared. And if the A.G. is careful, they will delineate all of those conversations about how important those financial statements were to getting that $170 million loan.

SIDNER: Can you give us sort of an overview of what hangs in the balance here? Because we're hearing all these details. You're seeing all these family members come up.

You're seeing the contention between Donald Trump and the judge, the lawyer, his lawyer, and the judge, but, ultimately, this is over fines, right, and money, correct?

AKERMAN: Lots of money, at least $250 million the A.G. is trying to receive.

And, basically, at this point Donald Trump is toast. I mean, he is basically going to be found to be a liar by the judge here. What people haven't focused on is not just his testimony last week, but it's also the testimony he gave in his deposition, where he took the Fifth Amendment over 400 times.

Now, what does it mean to take the Fifth Amendment? It means that you are refusing to answer a question because a truthful answer would tend to be incriminating. Then, what did Donald Trump do last week? He went into court and said, oh, I didn't do anything fraudulent. I wasn't involved in a fraud, which is just the opposite of what, in effect, he was saying when he took the Fifth Amendment in his deposition.

So, you have got contradictory testimony. You can use his assertion of the Fifth Amendment against him to basically find that he's lying, that he's manipulating the system when he goes in, refuses to answer questions, answers the questions in a half-baked manner.

I just don't see how this judge at the end of the day is not going to find that, with respect to Donald Trump, liar, liar, pants on fire.

SIDNER: I knew you were going to say that.

(LAUGHTER)

SIDNER: And that is where we're going to end it here.

We're going back to elementary school, but it is elemental.

AKERMAN: Yes.

SIDNER: There are things that you're either telling the truth or you're not on the stand or in a deposition.

AKERMAN: Right.

SIDNER: And we should mention everybody has the right to Fifth -- to plead the Fifth, but this is a civil trial, not a criminal trial.

AKERMAN: Correct.

SIDNER: That can get you in trouble in the civil trial, as opposed to a criminal trial.

AKERMAN: Well, particularly when you take an opposite position.

SIDNER: Right.

AKERMAN: I have been practicing civil law for well over 40 years. I have had a number of defendants take the Fifth Amendment.

I have never seen anybody do such a stupid move as to suddenly start testifying after you have taken the Fifth.

SIDNER: After you have taken the Fifth, yes, very unusual move.

Nick Akerman, thank you. It's always nice to see you.

AKERMAN: Good to see you. Thank you.

SIDNER: All right -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Hold the House and flip the Senate, that was the rallying chant and wish coming from Virginia's Republican governor leading up to last night.

So now that the results are in, what's the message that Virginia voters are sending back to that popular Republican governor? Democrats winning control of both the House and the Senate there.

Voters offered up another big message in Ohio last night, voting to solidify the constitutional right to abortion access in that state, even in areas where Trump has won handily in a state that has voted for Trump twice.

Let's get to Virginia.

CNN's Jessica Dean is in Richmond.

Jessica, abortion, as we talked about yesterday, not on the ballot in Virginia, but it was an issue. What are you hearing there today after last night?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you can imagine, Kate, Democrats here in Virginia are thrilled with how last night went for them.

[11:10:04]

They were able to maintain their power in the Senate and flip the House and effectively provide a blockade to Governor Glenn Youngkin's desired trifecta over state government. And so they're very happy.

The question is now, what happens for Governor Glenn Youngkin, who is this rising star in the Republican Party, who is conservative, but not quite MAGA? And this was really a test run for so much of his agenda, his message.

He was not on the ballot, as you mentioned, but he did go all over the Commonwealth of Virginia really selling his message, pitching himself to voters, in a way, and saying, look, if you will just give me full Republican control and vote for these Republican candidates, we can enact my agenda.

And one part of that was this 15-week ban with exception for rape, incest, and life of the mother. He really sees that and pitched it as a bit of a compromise, that this 15-week ban wouldn't go so far as these heartbeat bills, as the six-week bans we have seen in Florida or Iowa.

Kate, what was very interesting about last night is that voters here in Virginia rejected that. They didn't want to compromise. And the abortion -- and abortion continues to be such a strong issue for Democrats. And that's when we turn our attention, right, to Ohio.

You mentioned what happened in Ohio last night, a state that has twice voted for Trump and is considered at this point to be a red state, and yet voted overwhelmingly to enshrine the right to an abortion within the state's constitution. And that is where Democrats are turning their eyes today.

But it's also where Republicans are turning their eyes today, which is this issue of abortion, which continues to really juice Democratic turnout in states where you wouldn't necessarily expect it. This is -- Ohio being just the latest in a number of states that have voted on something like this.

And so now we look to 2024 and how this will play in that race. And that is what people in both parties are focused on today -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, Jessica. Thank you.

As Jessica's talking about Virginia and Ohio, later this hour, joining us in the show will be the Democratic governor of Kentucky, Andy Beshear, who just locked in a very big victory last night for his reelection in that deep red state, a new conversation with him -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Kate, why are these people smiling? It's because it is debate day in America.

BOLDUAN: Woo-hoo!

BERMAN: Five now Republican presidential hopefuls on stage in Miami tonight.

Is an alternative to Donald Trump emerging? New reporting on where things stand for a proposal to pause the fighting in Gaza.

And a brand-new "New York Times" investigation detailing the devastating toll heavy artillery battles are taking on U.S. troops after they come home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:17:27]

BOLDUAN: Tonight, dueling Republican events in Florida.

Five Republican presidential candidates are right now preparing for the bright lights once again in the third primary debate. That's going to be held in Miami.

At the same time, Donald Trump is preparing to thumb his nose at all of them, holding a rally of his own effectively just down the road.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is just down the road. She's in Hialeah, where Trump will be holding this event tonight.

Kristen, what are you hearing about what Trump's going to do tonight?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, Donald Trump wants a show that's going to directly compete with the GOP debate or even overshadow it. And his team is trying to deliver on that.

That's why they chose this location in Hialeah just down the street from where that GOP debate would be held. I was also told that several VIPs who would normally go to a Republican debate have been invited to this event instead. We know that Arkansas Governor Sara Huckabee Sanders is going to be on the stage endorsing him, as well as several other endorsements, some of which previously supported Ron DeSantis. And a lot of this is just a series of trolling by Donald Trump and his

team. They are angry with the RNC. They have called for the RNC to stop hosting these debates because Donald Trump has such a commanding lead. But one thing I do want to point out here is that Donald Trump does have a commanding lead in these primary polls.

And if he is to become the nominee, he would have to work with the RNC, as any nominee would, to get real help during a general election because of that infrastructure, so interesting way that they're dealing with this now, when, down the road, they do believe they're going to be the nominee, and they do believe they will have to work with the RNC.

BOLDUAN: And, with that in mind, do you think there is any chance at all that Donald Trump will join any of the later debates?

HOLMES: You know, I asked an adviser this yesterday, and they said: Our position is that we're not doing any debates until we do a debate.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: So -- and that speak basically just means Trump will decide whenever Trump decides if he wants to do a debate. But everything that I have heard is that right now, he likes this pattern that he's on of not actually participating in these debates.

BOLDUAN: It's like a new form of, like, the funny thing we always laugh about, which is any politician says they're not running until they are running. It's like the new form of that.

HOLMES: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, Kristen. Thanks so much -- John.

BERMAN: All right with us now, CNN political director and sometime CNN NEWS CENTRAL co-anchor David Chalian.

David, what is different about tonight's debate? I mean, in addition to the fact or besides the fact there are fewer candidates, how has the race changed?

[11:20:01]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I'm not sure that the overall contours of the race have changed, but I think the environment around the race has changed, John.

So I think one thing that is different tonight is the news environment. I mean, the Israel-Hamas war that is going on, I would imagine, is going to be sort of a central issue here, really increasing the time spent on foreign policy for the candidates. We haven't gotten a ton of that in previous debates. We have gotten some of it.

So that's one difference here. And, of course, the other difference is time, right? We are now 68 days, I think, away from the Iowa caucuses. So time is running short here for the candidates to actually be executing on their goals to success, if they're going to try and stop Donald Trump from just storming out of the gate and making his path to the nomination without much struggle.

BERMAN: At each of the first two debates, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley has seemed to improve her position, to the point now where she is arguably in second place, if not tied in second place with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

So what do you see her doing tonight, David, punching up at Donald Trump or punching sideways or down at Ron DeSantis?

CHALIAN: She says she likes to kick sideways, I think, is what she has said in the past when she takes on incoming.

I think you should pay attention to the center of that stage and how DeSantis and Haley deal with their position as this battle for second place. They have been sort of out on the campaign trail or their super PACs supporting them have been launching ads and message points contrasting with the other, going after the other.

Let's see if they bring that directly to the stage. Neither of them have seemed to really shy away from that, certainly not Nikki Haley. She seems to sort of relish the fight when it's there for her to take.

But I think that you will see her do both, John. I think you will see her explain why she doesn't think Donald Trump is the right candidate for the Republican Party and that she is, and sort of take him on that way. And I think no doubt you're going to see her take on Ron DeSantis on policy.

BERMAN: What do you think that Ron DeSantis could do differently than he has in the past? Because he has not improved his position, either in the debates or overall in the polls?

CHALIAN: Yes, what's amazing is that when you look at the makeup of his coalition and the polling, there is a lot of overlap with what would be Trump's universe and coalition as well.

Now, that coalition is parked with Trump right now. I mean, our latest poll has Trump at 61 percent nationally. So, he is far, far ahead. But DeSantis has got to start taking some of that vote share away, more so, I think, than Nikki Haley, who's building a different kind of coalition.

Again, Trump has so much, each one of these candidates is going to need some of his support, but Ron DeSantis has to show -- really make the play for it's time to abandon Donald Trump, Republicans, and come my way. It's not an argument, obviously, as you have noted, that has been successful to date for him.

BERMAN: No, and it's not an argument that he has really leaned in trying to make as directly as you just stated it there.

David Chalian, great to have you on. Thank you very much.

CHALIAN: Great. See you.

BERMAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right ahead, a deep red state reelects a Democratic governor. We're speaking with Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear. You will hear from him and Kate Bolduan next.

Also, in Gaza, thousands of civilians have fled, mostly on foot, south, as G7 diplomats are calling for humanitarian pauses, but not a cease-fire, in Israel's war with Hamas.

We will have more details on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:27]

BOLDUAN: One of the races that folks were watching most closely last night was the race for governor in Kentucky.

Democratic Governor Andy Beshear was facing a serious and well-funded challenge from Republican Daniel Cameron. Beshear won, locking in a second term. And he remains the only Democrat in statewide elected office in that red state.

Here he was last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Tonight, Kentucky made a choice.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

A. BESHEAR: A choice not to move to the right or to the left, but to move forward for every single family.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And joining us now for the first TV interview today after the big win last night, Governor Andy Beshear and first lady Britainy Beshear.

Thank you so much for being here.

I said to you in the break. This may be the first time that you have joined me and we are not talking about a pandemic or a natural disaster that has just hit your state, which speaks to the wild road that you have faced in your first term.

Governor, what's your one big take from your win last night?

A. BESHEAR: Well, we have been through a lot in Kentucky, from a pandemic, to tornadoes, flooding, windstorms, ice storms. Yet we're sitting here today more optimistic and excited about our future than at any point in my lifetime, now ranked number two in per capita economic development in the country, having brought more private sector investment in, expanding health care all across the state.

You know, it's an exciting time to be a Kentuckian. And I think that's what people showed up and voted for. They voted for a better future. They pushed out the division and the noise.

[11:30:00]