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Dem Gov. Beshear Reelected In Deep Red Kentucky; Thousands Flee Northern Gaza Through Evacuation Corridor; NYT Report: Many U.S. Troops Who Fired Vast Numbers Of Artillery Rounds Against Islamic State Developed Mysterious Mental & Physical Problems. Aired 11:30a- 12p ET

Aired November 08, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): You know, it's an exciting time to be a Kentuckian. And I think that's what people showed up and voted for. They voted for a better future. They pushed out the division and the noise. And they simply said, you know, who has a record and who's going to work every day to make my life better for my family?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: First Lady, this year, you have been right alongside your husband. Your family has, throughout. What -- really, became a tough campaign, a tough election cycle, a well-funded challenger in Daniel Cameron. What did this tough election tell you about the political climate right now?

BRITAINY BESHEAR, KENTUCKY FIRST LADY: It's tough. I think that the political climate in our country is extremely divisive. And I think what Kentucky voters see in Andy, is that, as he likes to say, it's not about the right or the left, but it's moving forward. And for us, that's what matters.

It matters that Kentucky families have food on the table, that their children can have an education and health care. And I think that the empathy that Andy has shown each and every Kentuckian, and that each and every Kentuckian matters, shows that the politics of divisiveness and hatred don't have a place in the governor's office in Kentucky.

BOLDUAN: Governor, when you hear people say that your reelection and the way you ran your campaign provides a blueprint for how Democrats should be running elsewhere and across the country. Do you agree?

A. BESHEAR: Well, I think our blueprint was as simple as show up, work hard, get results, and care about everybody. And don't get distracted by whatever the issue of the day is in Washington, D.C. You know, the -- when people wake up in the morning, they don't think about President Biden or President Trump. They think about, do they have a good enough job. Can they afford to take their kids or their parents to a doctor when they're sick?

Do they feel safe in their community? Are the kids -- their kids getting the best education? Is the road they drive on to work safe? Does it need repairs? Those are the things that impact everybody's daily lives. And I hope that not just Democrats, but Republicans and independents go there. You know, enough to try to demonize groups of people, of driving a wedge between people of the attacks and the anger. How about we all talk about how to improve people's lives? And then the electorate can decide who has the better plan, or the better ideas, or who they trust more to move them forward.

BOLDUAN: Governor, I think the control room just told me that you spoke with President Biden at some point after the big victory last night. What is your advice that you would offer President Biden, his campaign? I know you'll say you're not going to offer the president advice. But for any Democratic campaign, who wants to build off a big win like yours in a red state, what should they take from it? What can the Biden campaign take from your win when they're facing tough poll numbers right now?

A. BESHEAR: I think you got to care about everyone. Now, it's the golden rule that says you love your neighbor as yourself. And the parable of the Good Samaritan that says, everyone is your neighbor, no exceptions. So, the way that we've governed, and I think people really responded to it last night, is there aren't red counties and blue counties, they're just Kentucky counties with our families.

Now, I believe that everyone should have more than a message, their whys. (AUDIO GAP) Ideas that better everyone's life. And I believe people can see that. They can see whether you are authentic, whether you truly care, whether you're going to give it everything that you've got.

I know that there are different issues out there that may be driving people right now. But at the end of the day, they want somebody they trust, that cares about them, and that's going to work as hard as they can. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. They want someone that, again, is going to try every single day to make their life just a little bit better.

BOLDUAN: Looking at the politics, looking at the map, looking at the poll numbers ahead in 2024, do you think you won, Governor, because you have Joe Biden in the White House right now or in spite of Biden being in the White House right now, when he's struggling in polling in battleground states?

A. BESHEAR: My opponents certainly tried to make this race about Joe Biden. And it didn't work. These races, especially governor's races are so state-centered and specific because your job is to get things done. You know, in Washington, D.C., they seem to think that the signing in the Rose Garden is the end. It's not even the beginning, right?

Even the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, which is so important, so critical, it's helping us build the Brent Spence Corridor Bridge that's between Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky one of the biggest infrastructure projects in the history --

[11:35:03] BOLDUAN: I mean, in a number of years. I've heard about that one. Yes.

A. BESHEAR: That was great. (INAUDIBLE) So, you know, it's -- I believe that my opponent's attempts to nationalize this race, backfired because he wasn't talking about what he wanted to do as governor. And so anytime that you tried to bring in those wedge issues or try to make it about something else, you're missing your chance to actually talk to voters about what you would do.

BOLDUAN: Since you barely slept last night and just wrapped up one election, it's the perfect opportunity to talk about the next election. Two questions -- two questions and rapid fire. Would you consider jumping in as a late-stage Democratic candidate for president in 2024, as the chattering class has discussed?

A. BESHEAR: Absolutely not. We just got through this. Our kids are happy. Our son just started high school. Our daughter is in eighth grade. They mean the world to me, and if they're happy, I'm sitting right here with them.

BOLDUAN: Secondly, when you hear the not-so-quiet whispers of Beshear 2028 for presidential run, you say what?

A. BESHEAR: I'll -- it's kind and it's flattering. But my job is to be the best governor that I can be. I mean, every day now that I have left as governor is special. I think about the things that we've done.

We're building the two biggest battery plants on planet Earth, the biggest investments we've ever seen. And our economy is totally changing for the better. And from somebody who's from the state, and who loves this state, being at this seminal moment where we can change everything for future generations, that is the most important thing to me.

We're going to see that through. And we're going to rebuild all those towns that were hit by tornadoes and flooding. We're off to a great start. But this election means that you know I can ultimately fulfill that promise of rebuilding every home and every life. That's a promise I intend to keep.

BOLDUAN: And I know, First Lady, you were central and have been central in those efforts to rebuild. Thank you both very much for coming on with me today. We'll talk soon.

A. BESHEAR: Thank you.

B. BESHEAR: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much. John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: When I heard there was no to 2024, and as for 2028, stay tuned.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, so you say there's a chance.

BERMAN: Yes. All right. We have a new update on what Ivanka Trump is saying on the witness stand. What has the state drawn out of her? She just left the courtroom for a quick break. We may hear from her shortly.

And the latest from Israel in new arguments over a possible pause in the fight.

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[11:41:57]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Earlier today, thousands of people fled Northern Gaza through an evacuation corridor. They were walking south with what they could manage to carry, most of them carrying very little and sometimes just carrying their children. That five-hour window was set up by Israeli military forces, but it is now closed. Meanwhile, Secretary of State Antony Blinken maintains the White House's position that Israeli forces should not reoccupy Gaza after the incursion with Hamas ends. But he added that there may need to be some time for a transition period at the end of the conflict.

Salma Abdelaziz is joining us now from London. You've been covering this from the beginning in what is happening in Gaza. Can you give us some sense of what that might mean this whole transition period at the end of the conflict?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think that's extremely vague, Sara. I mean, the first question that comes to mind is transition to what? Hamas is the government of Gaza. What comes after that?

You're also hearing this debate about a ceasefire, cessation of hostilities, a pause. The U.S., of course, calling for a pause, something that rights groups, the U.N., civilians on the ground are of course begging, pleading for. The U.N. Secretary-General saying that what we're seeing inside Gaza is no longer a humanitarian crisis, but a crisis of humanity.

Some two million people cut off from food, fuel, water, as they are bombed and besieged for over a month now. And I want you to take a listen to how John Kirby put it to our Kate just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON: We believe that there has to be space and opportunity for multiple pauses in the fighting to allow for aid to get in, for people to get out, and to do so safely and efficiently. Again, both in and out. So, this is what we're talking about with our Israeli counterparts, it's what we're talking about with partners on the ground and we're going to keep pushing for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: Now, the U.S. might keep pushing for that. But so far, on the Israeli side, there seems to be a great deal of reluctance. Israeli forces are insistent that any pause in the fighting will only allow Hamas to regroup -- to gather themselves again. They have refused these calls -- ignored these calls for a pause time and time again.

Meanwhile, Israeli troops are in the heart of Gaza City. The Israeli Defense Minister essentially declaring the whole of Gaza City a legitimate target, saying it is a huge Hamas space. We've also seen these evacuations today, Sara, some 15,000 people The UN estimates just today evacuating but evacuating without a pause. Meaning, leaving under bombardment and under siege.

SIDNER: Yes. It's terrifying for the civilians there. Salma Abdelaziz, thank you for all your reporting on what has been happening there at the Gaza Strip. John?

BERMAN: All right. A New York Times investigation highlights the devastating toll heavy artillery battles take on U.S. troops even after they come home. And what the White House is hearing this morning from Democratic insiders about the new tough round of polling, but also about democratic victories overnight?

[11:45:10]

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BOLDUAN: A secret war and secret new wounds. Around 2016, the U.S. made a strategic shift in the fight against ISIS relying more on airstrikes and a smaller footprint of troops pounding ISIS positions with a huge amount of powerful artillery. These crews were firing tens of thousands of high-explosive shells. Far more rounds than any American artillery battery had fired at least since the Vietnam War, experts say. The strategy worked on the battlefield but the impact on the Marines appears to be devastating.

[11:50:02]

This all comes from an investigation by the New York Times just out which found this. Let me read just a piece. Many of the troops sent to bombard the Islamic State in 2016 and 2017 returned to the United States plagued by nightmares, panic attacks, depression, and in a few cases, hallucinations. Like Lance Corporal Javier Ortiz, returning home from Syria in 2017 with the ghost of a dead girl appearing in his kitchen. She was paled and covered in chalky dust staring at him with a glare as dark and heavy as oil. It's written in this piece. Ortiz was convinced that the enemy had put a "hex on him."

Then there's another Marine, Staff Sergeant Joshua James, the easygoing young father who returned from his mission as an alcoholic afflicted by anxiety and headaches. In November 2022 on a road trip with his family, James with no warning, killed himself in the drive- thru of a fast-food restaurant after an argument with his wife. "The man who deployed never really came back," Lindsay James, his wife, tells the New York Times. He was a different person. He never understood what was happening to him. I don't think the army did either.

Joining us now is the reporter behind this investigation, Dave Philipps, military correspondent for The New York Times. Dave, thank you for coming in. Your piece stopped me in my tracks. I found myself reading portions of it to several people. How did this come about?

DAVE PHILIPPS, MILITARY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes. Basically, I was contacted by a few Marines and soldiers who were seeing all sorts of problems with the guys that they deployed with to Syria and Iraq, and they couldn't understand it. They didn't know if it was PTSD or something else. And I got to tell you. At first, I didn't either. And it was only after talking to dozens and dozens of these service members that I realized that the thing that was really remarkable about their deployment was that they had fired so many rounds.

Now, I'll say the military said that firing these types of rounds is what's supposed to be perfectly safe, according to their guidelines. But what we found over and over is that guys were coming home with things that looked like brain injuries. And repeatedly, we're having it misdiagnosed and missed -- and sometimes they were even punished for, you know, falling apart while they were in uniform.

BOLDUAN: Which is one of the -- I think one of the most painful parts is they -- because they got -- I'm going to screw up, but less than honorable discharge because of behavior. They couldn't access the help that they needed so desperately. Now, CNN reached out to the Marines about your report.

PHILIPPS: That's right.

BOLDUAN: We haven't heard back from them. A spokesperson for the Pentagon did tell reporters this week when asked about your investigation, that he doesn't have anything immediately to provide. What have you heard from the military during the course of your reporting, and also, Dave, since your investigation has been published?

PHILIPPS: Well, I haven't heard anything, which is disappointing. But I have to tell you, this is a really hard injury to spot and address because it looks like so many different things. You know, these are people who are -- don't have any physical signs of injury, and yet they have depression, they can't sleep, they -- a lot of times have explosive anger, irritability, suspicion, things that you know, are a wound of war. But also, in the eyes of someone who's not prepared to recognize them, you know, can look like someone who's just being bad at their job.

And so repeatedly, what we found was people who were suffering from brain injuries were instead treated as problems, punished for minor misconduct, kicked out of the military. And when you're kicked out with an other than honorable discharge, you are, in many cases, cut off from veterans benefits. So, the people who need this help the most that this help is designed and intended for, in many cases, can't get it. And we found people who were homeless, literally living in their cars dealing with these brain injuries because no one understood what had happened to them.

BOLDUAN: You interviewed more than 40 gun crew veterans and their families in 16 states. And this was the common theme is they could not get the help that they needed. Can you give me the -- just the scope of what they felt in this constant fire? What was expected of them? What their mission was? What it did do to them even in real-time?

PHILIPPS: Right.

BOLDUAN: And then knowing that do you think the military is turning its back on them, or if they just have no idea what they're dealing with?

PHILIPPS: Fundamentally, I think this is just ignorance. These gun troops were firing day and night, you know. Literally, exposed to thousands of blasts that are shooting through their brains at almost supersonic speeds.

[11:55:02]

Now, at the time, they were feeling things that you know, we might recognize as concussion. Headaches, fatigue, nausea, irritability, sleep disturbance. But they were in a warzone sleeping in foxholes, eating you know crappy combat rations, and living in the dust. And so, they didn't know, hey, am I feeling all of this stuff because of the blasts or because of, you know, the conditions?

And remember, these are young soldiers and Marines that are trained not to complain. And Uncle Sam is telling them that what they're doing is safe. So, I think they trusted the military's experts. And when they came home, quite frankly, most of them could not understand why they couldn't sleep, why they didn't feel like themselves, why they couldn't think straight.

And some of them may be thought that it was Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, but question that because they felt like almost, they didn't deserve to have that, that their combat deployments were not traumatic enough for them to have PTSD. And so, they kept it to themselves a lot of times or hit it or got angry at themselves. There's a great deal of confusion, shame, and just ignorance that caused almost everybody, even trained people who are medical experts that are supposed to recognize this stuff to miss it.

BOLDUAN: That -- and that really comes through in your investigation. Thank you for your work on this. And thanks for coming on to talk about it.

PHILIPPS: I really appreciate it. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much.

SIDNER: It's an incredible piece, and good on you for getting him on.

BOLDUAN: He's such a great reporter.

SIDNER: He's a great reporter. Yes.

BERMAN: Good stuff.

SIDNER: Yes. right. Well, really good. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

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