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Sources Say, Hostage Deal Between Israel and Hamas Could Be Announced as Soon as Today; Federal Appeals Court Appears Inclined to Restore Trump Gag Order, But Loosen Some Restrictions; GOP Source Says, Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA) and Trump Met at Mar-a-Lago. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired November 21, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news, a deal to potentially release dozens of hostages held by Hamas, that deal could happen today. The new details as the Israeli war cabinet is about to meet.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And will an appeals court side with Donald Trump in his latest gag order challenge or just narrow the restrictions he has to follow. A decision is expected soon.

BOLDUAN: Plus, thanksgiving travel and the severe storms this week that could cause major problems for tens of millions of people.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Omar Jimenez. John and Sara are off. This is CNN News Central.

The Israeli war cabinet just announced that they will be gathering -- they will be gathering this morning. They will be voting on a deal to get Israeli hostages released by Hamas in exchange for Palestinian prisoners in Israel. An announcement could come as soon as today about the culmination of this.

And the number of hostages could be significant. A U.S. official says this is the closest that they have been to a deal since the terror group kidnapped those innocent civilians during the October 7th attack. Two Israeli sources, tell CNN one thing that's still being worked out is the names of who would be released. But regardless, it does appear that it will be a significant number, potentially 50 women and children who are currently being held in Gaza. In exchange, three Palestinian prisoners could be released for every one hostage set free. On top of that, the swaps would be coming during a four to five- day pause in fighting.

That's just some of the details of what this potential deal is starting to look like.

Let's get over to the White House one more time. M.J. Lee has been gathering more details on how things are looking. What is the sense that you're getting there this morning?

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, what sources are telling us this morning is that Israel, the U.S. and Hamas are on the cusp of reaching a deal and that that deal could be announced as early as today. Hamas would release 50 women and children hostages in exchange for four to five days of pause in fighting and also in exchange for three Palestinian prisoners that Israel is holding in exchange for every one hostage.

Now, during the pause, we are told Israel would stop flying surveillance drones over Northern Gaza for at least six hours a day. And what we are told about the identity of the hostages is simply that they are of various nationalities.

And U.S. officials are hoping that one of the hostages that is released in this initial tranche will be three-year-old Abigail Edan. She is, of course, the youngest known American hostage. Her parents were killed by Hamas. So, there is hope that she may be one of the people that is released of the initial 50 that would be released if this deal were to come to fruition.

Now, beyond the initial 50 hostages, we are told the idea is that Hamas would use this time of the four to five days in pause in fighting to gather up to see if there are any other more hostages that they can gather. And then if that were to be successful, then that pause and fighting could potentially be extended for extra days so that more hostages could come out.

Now, of course, we have seen U.S. officials here working around the clock to try to get this across the finish line, everyone from the president on down traveling to the region, making phone calls, having meetings. And the caveat here still is that at any moment the deal could break down. It has been incredibly tenuous in the past as well, but more optimism than ever before this morning, Kate, that a deal could be announced and that it could come as early as today. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes. Stay close, M.J., you've got great reporting on this. Thank you so much.

JIMENEZ: And at this point, in about an hour, Israel's work cabinet is expected to meet at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's request to potentially begin a multi-step approval process for this hostage deal.

Becky Anderson joins now from Doha, Qatar. What else are you learning about what will happen at this work cabinet meeting?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, that's fascinating, isn't it, because this is the -- if this comes off, this is the biggest diplomatic breakthrough since October the 7th, and those massacres of Israelis on the kibbutzes and at that party.

This war cabinet, it now appears, is sitting on a deal, which is, to them, to approve at this point. We heard earlier from Qatari officials who described this, they've been mediating these hostage negotiations, of course, Israel and Hamas not in direct contact. Hamas' political office is here in Doha. That has been an agreement that Doha has had with the Americans since 2012.

So, Doha has been mediating these talks for weeks earlier today describing this as a truce agreement in the Gaza Strip. They said they are closer than they have ever been to an agreement.

[10:05:03]

And that's saying something because I've been talking diplomatic sources now for weeks and there have been times when it is being explained that we are close, but at this point, a diplomatic source telling me that Qatar hopes that there will be an announcement on a truce agreement in the Gaza Strip later today.

As M.J. reported, that truce agreement, as we understand it, is for 50 hostages over a four day pause, a pause in ground hostilities, periods of pauses for the Israelis who are flying drones over the Gaza Strip, and to allow in up to 300 trucks worth of aid a day into Gaza. And that would be an agreement on behalf of the Israelis. Of course, that has been a real bone of contention and a real issue for humanitarian agencies who haven't been able to get this aid in.

But as things stand, 50 hostages in the first stage, women, children, possibly foreigners in that first stage, we can't stand that up. A second phase, if this is successful in the days to come, should allow for up to, as we understand it, another 50. At that stage, we'd be looking at all the civilian hostages, women, children and foreigners released from captivity in Gaza, in exchange, as we've been reporting for Palestinian prisoners, women and teenagers held in Palestinian prisons.

Let me just say, there are 380 teenagers under the age of 18, Palestinians held in Israeli prisons, and some 80 women, as we understand it, according to the Palestinian prisoners group.

So, you can see where the numbers are stacking up. It's a sort of three for one deal, as we understand it. And it has been described, and I think this is really important to point out, is being described as a truce, both by Hamas and by the mediators here. That suggests that this is by no means a ceasefire, and that's important because Hamas has said that it will not release all the hostages, all 240 of the hostages, including soldiers and individuals of military age, until there is a ceasefire.

On the flip side of that, the Israelis have said that they will not go anywhere close to a ceasefire until all the hostages are released. So, there was a standoff there, and that certainly isn't part of this agreement. This is a truce. This is a pause in hostilities, a pause in both ground and some air activities until, at least in principle, the first of the civilian hostages will be released.

Look, it's not perfect. Nobody is saying it is. It certainly doesn't include soldiers or military personnel or people of military age, but it is a start at this point, and, certainly, as I said, the biggest diplomatic breakthrough since this conflict began, if they (INAUDIBLE) a done deal until, Omar, it's a done deal. Yes.

JIMENEZ: Yes. That is the significance here that that, over weeks, we have been looking for threads to see what could break through, and here we see what could be again -- still in the initial phases, what could be the most significant breakthrough. We got to leave it there. Becky Anderson, thank you so much. We'll come back to you.

BOLDUAN: Joining us now for more on this is CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen.

Peter, what do you see in the contours of this deal that's coming together? What do you think of it?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it shows the centrality of Qatar to all this. I mean, the fact that the Hamas political leadership is in Qatar, as you may recall, Kate, the Taliban political leadership was in Qatar. Qatar sort of functions like Vienna did during the Cold War, where the United States can talk to people that otherwise we might not be able to talk to directly through the Qataris. And it shows that that is an essential channel. We've already seen it work once before with two American women who were released early in the conflict, about two weeks into the conflict. And so the Qataris are absolutely essential to this.

And there's some people who said, well, why the Hamas political leadership in Qatar and suggesting they should be expelled? I don't think that would be a particularly good idea because they probably would go to Syria or Iran. And at the end of the day, we need to be able to talk to them. And we'll continue to need to be able to talk to them, because, clearly, even if 50 hostages are released, that still leaves 190 who are still there, amongst many other issues that we still want to talk to Hamas about potentially in the future, including what the day after in Gaza might look like and how that will be arranged.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean, it is -- you lay out perfectly the tangled, complicated nature of any hostage negotiations, especially one that we're looking at right here.

I asked Barak Ravid, the foreign policy reporter with Axios, he was on with us last hour, I was asking what he's hearing from his sources about what got them, the collective them, to where we are in this moment, and especially when it comes to Hamas.

[10:10:10]

Let me play for you what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: If Hamas agrees to this deal, is that a statement of how much pressure that they're under from the IDF bombardment and operation or does it say something about how much Hamas could be benefiting from the contours in what is in this deal?

BARAK RAVID, POLITICAL AND FOREIGN POLICY REPORTER, AXIOS: I think it's the former. At the end of the day, what Hamas gets out of this deal is a breather. That's it. They get four days, maybe six days, maybe if they manage to bring a lot of other hostages and release them, maybe they'll get eight days, but they're not going to stop the war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Peter, what do you think they'd do? What do you think they'd get in that breather?

BERGEN: Well, presumably a chance to regroup slightly, and presumably if there are wounded Hamas fighters, maybe they get medical treatment. You know, they've -- as you know, the war has gone on at a very intense rate. So, you know, clearly they do benefit.

But, you know, when the hostage families met with Netanyahu just yesterday, you know, there was so much anger directed at him and his government, and this is such a big issue in Israel. For the Israelis, I don't think this is -- you know, it's something they have to do. It's something that people in Israel feel very strongly about.

Yes, and, of course, Hamas will benefit, but it's only four days or maybe eight days if it goes on. This is not -- you know, this conflict clearly could carry on for months. If indeed the aim of Israel is to destroy Hamas, that's a pretty big aim. And these kinds of urban wars that we saw in Mosul, for instance, in the fight against ISIS, that went on for nine months.

I'm not saying that this will go on that long, but, clearly, if the aim is to really kind of end Hamas' military capability, that process could take many, many more weeks.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you, Peter. Thank you so much.

BERGEN: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: And we're still following a lot of news here in the United States, including will a federal appeals court restore the gag order against Donald Trump and his election subversion case. We're getting some hints from what the judges said during a tense hearing.

Plus, a source tells CNN that House Speaker Mike Johnson stopped by Mar-a-Lago for a meeting with Trump. Why? We'll explain what we know.

And this Thanksgiving could bring some of the busiest travel days in years, but plans for millions of people could be upended by some nasty holiday storms. We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

BOLDUAN: We are waiting for a federal appeals court to decide if a gag order against Donald Trump will be put back in place, putting some limits on what he can and can't say publicly around his federal election subversion case.

This is something obviously Donald Trump and his legal team is fighting. During an often tense hearing yesterday, the three-judge panel faced with this question. They seem to signal that they may be inclined to keep the order in place, but loosen some of the restrictions. How do you walk that fine line when you're talking about something as important as the case against him is unclear.

CNN's Alayna Treene joins us now for more on this.

Alayna, what did the judges say? Take us inside.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yes. Well, Kate, you're exactly right. I mean, it does look like the judges are poised to keep this limited gag order in the federal election subversion case, but they may loosen some of the restrictions so that Donald Trump can go after Special Counsel Jack Smith more directly.

And, look, the judges argued that they want to make a distinction. There's a distinction between political speech, they said, and then speech designed to subvert the elect -- or, excuse me, to subvert the legal process.

Now, Donald Trump's lawyers have been arguing, and they argued this yesterday, is that a gag order like this issued by Judge Tonya Chutkan is categorically unprecedented. That's something that the judge -- or, excuse me, that the lawyer, Mr. Sauer, said yesterday in court. However, that is something that the judges did not seem to totally embrace. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. JOHN SAUER, TRUMP ATTORNEY: The order is unprecedented and it sets a terrible precedent for future restrictions on core political speech.

JUDGE PATRICIA MILLET, D.C. CIRCUIT COURT: It's only affecting speech temporarily during a criminal trial process by someone who has been indicted as a felon.

No one here is threatening the First Amendment broadly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Kate, we're still waiting to see exactly how that three- judge panel will rule on this.

But, look, I think taking a step back and looking at the big picture, I've spoken with Donald Trump's team extensively about this. And the reason they care so much is because Donald Trump and his team do not want to necessarily fight these legal battles in the court of law but they want to fight it in the court of public opinion. And in order for Donald Trump to do that, they want his speech, you know, not to be limited and let him say whatever he wants on social media.

And, remember, they look -- his team looks at his legal strategy as the same as his campaign strategy, and so having a gag order in place limits Donald Trump from doing that. Kate?

Alayna, thank you so much. Omar?

JIMENEZ: Now, Donald Trump is getting a show of support from the top House Republican. House Speaker Mike Johnson went down to Mar-a-Lago last night to meet with the former president, that's according to a GOP source.

The sit-down comes just days after the speaker publicly endorsed Trump's re-election bid, saying he, quote, wholeheartedly supports Trump.

CNN Political Director David Chalian joins us now.

So, let's just start with how significant is this meeting between Johnson and Trump here.

[10:20:00]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, significant in the sense of showing a unified Republican Party around Donald Trump's dominance in it. It should not surprise anyone, as you noted, the speaker has made his endorsement of Trump quite clear. He was one of Donald Trump's most vociferous supporters in the Congress when Donald Trump was in office, including in his efforts to subvert the legitimate 2020 election results. So, you know, the speaker is a Trump ally and he identifies as such.

I just think it's worth noting here, since he's become a speaker, he's now passed a government funding bill without spending cuts and sort of a clean continuing resolution and did so mostly with Democratic help. And now he's gone down to Mar-a-Lago to make sure that Donald Trump knows that he is indeed the leader of all these Republicans. It sounds a lot like the old speaker, Kevin McCarthy.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Well, and at least his debut as speaker is a little different than McCarthy's was, but agreed, you know, it's a situation where it probably has gone about as smoothly as you could hope for to establish your lead as a Republican leader.

Now, I want to jump to something else where the general election presidential debate calendar was released. There's some tweaks this time, you know, including the debates ending a little earlier than they ever have before Election Day. What do we know about the schedule of debates here?

CHALIAN: We should make clear this is the Commission on Presidential Debates that has hosted presidential debates going back to 1988, Omar. But debates don't happen unless both candidates agree to debate and we're far away from that. So, this is not set in stone.

But the Commission on Presidential Debates did reveal the dates and locations. And as you noted, September 16th, circle it on your calendar, is the first presidential debate down in San Marcos, Texas. This is the earliest we've seen a presidential debate, which, by the way, was one of the Republican demands.

The Republican National Committee has been in a public feud with the Commission on Presidential Debates and one of their big sticking points about even agreeing should their nominee agree to participate in these debates is that the debates were too late and they were missing early voters. Lots of people are voting early now.

The other note is that -- in the announcement was the first ever HBCU, Historically Black College University, down in Virginia that will be hosting a presidential debate. We've never seen that before either.

JIMENEZ: Yes. And, look, we don't know what the picture you point out very aptly that we don't -- we won't know what the picture is candidate-wise when we come to November. And for one, the White House is saying it won't govern by polls leading up to that as Biden's approval ratings haven't been great as far as polls go. But what is the reality here for Team Biden?

CHALIAN: Well, obviously, when Karine Jean-Pierre, the press secretary, was asked that question, it was the context of the Israel- Hamas War. And the president's numbers are upside down on his handling of that, no doubt.

But I would just note what we have been reporting and seeing in the last couple weeks of a beginning to be stepped up effort by Biden, his campaign, the president himself, and the White House, is this contrast campaign with Donald Trump.

And I thought this NBC News poll that came out this week explains perfectly why that is. Because they asked among Biden voters, are you more casting your vote in support of for Joe Biden or more against Donald Trump? Two to one, 63 percent of Biden voters say they're voting for Biden to be against Trump. Only a third, 31 percent, say they're voting for Biden, Trump the motivating factor for Biden voters.

And, by the way, Omar, if you flip it and look at Trump voters in this NBC poll, Trump is the motivating factor there too. He -- 56 percent of his supporters say they're voting for Trump to be for him, not opposed to Biden. Only 37 percent say that.

So, while the Biden campaign is keen on making Donald Trump the central factor in this race, because that is a motivating force for its supporters, the downside to that is Donald Trump being central in this campaign is also a motivating fact for his supporters.

JIMENEZ: Yes. We will see what happens and, David Chalian, I know you'll be on top of it all. Thanks for being with us.

CHALIAN: Thanks, Omar.

BOLDUAN: Coming up, the breaking news and potentially a huge moment in the Israel-Hamas War, a deal to release a significant number of hostages held by Hamas terrorists could be announced very soon, even today. We've got new reporting from sources. We'll bring it to you.

Plus, a federal appeals court strikes down a key tool used for decades to enforce the Voting Rights Act. And in striking that down, it strikes a big blow at the Voting Rights Act all together. The practical impact and the next steps in this fight.

And millions of Americans are gearing up to head out for Thanksgiving. This week is always a busy time to travel, of course, while some officials, though, think this Thanksgiving, could be off the charts.

[10:24:55]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:29:31]

BOLDUAN: We are now just minutes away really from the Israeli war cabinet gathering and meeting. Just last hour, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, announced the meeting and also in doing so says that the nation is, quote, making progress on the potential release of the innocent hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza.

Now, sources do say a deal could be approved as soon as today.

Oren Liebermann is live in Tel Aviv with the very latest update on this. Oren, what are you learning about this war cabinet meeting?

[10:30:01]

What could be coming in the next hour-plus?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: So, first, the war cabinet meeting itself, which starts in half an hour.