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Multiple Large Explosions in Gaza; Hostage Negotiations With Hamas Continue. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 21, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:22]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: And we are following breaking news this hour.

Any moment now, Israel's war cabinet will meet to review a deal to potentially -- to potentially secure the release of 50 of the estimated 239 hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza. The announcement of that deal could happen today, even in the coming hours.

Earlier this morning, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he said publicly that progress is being made on an agreement, and a senior U.S. official has said that a deal is -- quote -- "very close," but, of course, stressing that it is not done yet.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: And here's what we know so far about this possible deal. It calls for the release of 50 women and children in exchange for a four-to-five-day pause in fighting and the release of three Palestinian prisoners for every civilian hostage released.

BOLDUAN: Let's start this hour with Alex Marquardt in Washington, Oren Liebermann in Tel Aviv.

Alex, how close to a deal do U.S. officials believe that they are? And what is in the -- tell us more about what's in the agreement.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, they are quite confident.

This is the most optimistic we have heard U.S. officials. They are telling us that they believe they are closer to a deal than ever before, with all of the caveats, recognizing that the situation is extremely fluid and that the fighting does continue.

Now, that fighting may end soon, at least temporarily, if this agreement does go into effect. The broad strokes of what we understand this agreement to be that was mediated by Qatar and the U.S., agreed to by Israel and Hamas, is that, over a four-or-five-day pause in the fighting, that some 50 civilian hostages, women and children, would be released by Hamas.

In exchange, Israel would release three times that in terms of Palestinian prisoners, so 150 Palestinian women and children who are in Israeli prisons. Now, the number of hostages released by Hamas could grow beyond that 50 if all goes according to plan.

We expect that this initial 50 would be released on a rolling basis, over the course of those four or five days. If that goes well, there could be more hostages who would then get released beyond that. Remember, we understand these hostages to be spread out all over the Gaza Strip and among different factions of Hamas and other groups.

And then, Kate, there's also the question of aid. This is something that Hamas has been insisting on, that more aid be allowed to get into Gaza. Hundreds of trucks of aid per day is something that they are asking for. We understand that this is something that has been agreed to, but the implementation mechanism, how those trucks go in, is still something that is rather complicated, how they get inspected.

One very important point, Omar and Kate, is that we understand that the list of 50 hostages that Hamas has agreed to release are all hostages who are alive. And, of course, that is very important, because, of the 240 hostages being held by Hamas and Gaza, we are not clear on how many are dead and how many are alive.

So the gaps have narrowed. There is optimism there. But keep in mind, even if some 50 hostages are released, the vast majority, 80 percent, would still remain hostage, held hostage by Hamas -- guys.

JIMENEZ: And, of course, a major question, if this actually goes through, as it appears to, is, does this become a one-off or the beginning of a longer-term process?

Alex, we're going to come back to you.

Oren, I want to go to you, because the war cabinet meeting, the Israeli war cabinet meeting, is set to start right now at this point. What are we expecting to see at this point?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The war cabinet meeting will start a series of votes and procedures required by the political process here to approve such a deal and to approve the release of Palestinian prisoners as part of this deal.

[11:05:08]

The war cabinets itself is a very small group around Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. They are leading the war effort. That meeting just started a moment ago, or at least it was supposed to have started just a moment ago.

In one hour, it'll be the wider security cabinet that meets. That includes several other ministers. And then an hour after that will be the full cabinet for a government meeting. At each stage, there might be some level of debate, discussion, argument. But the expectation here is, this could move fairly quickly.

Now, that, in and of itself, isn't the end of the process. It continues from there with a 24-hour window in which appeals can be filed to the Supreme Court to try to stop this deal. But it's also clear from the scheduling of what we're seeing here, from the scheduling of these Cabinet meetings that this is expected to move forward and to do so fairly quickly.

The prime minister's office, Benjamin Netanyahu's office, also put out a statement that the director general of that office has spoken to the directors general of other ministries in Israel to prepare for all the civilian assistance needed as part of this.

So, all of the indications on this end, from the government, from the statements, are that this is moving forward. Now, we haven't heard today, or lately, I should say, from Netanyahu, other than when he said there may be good news coming soon, but we would very much expect some sort of statement from him, either video or written, at the end of the day.

It is worth pointing out that the defense minister, Yoav Gallant, who is a part of the war cabinet, did put out a statement referencing hostages, and I will just read a bit of this.

He said: "I think we will have to make difficult, important decisions over the coming days. There is no moment during this war, 45 days in, that I don't think about the hostages and picture their faces, the kids, the soldiers, the women, the elderly, the Holocaust survivors, everyone who is there. I'm aware of the pain that the families are experiencing, and I would like to tell you that, for me, returning the hostages is a primary goal, and I will do everything possible to achieve it."

We will see how that plays out this evening.

JIMENEZ: And, of course, Oren, if everything goes to schedule, it could be just a matter of hours that we have a full government approval on the Israeli side.

So we're going to continue to monitor as these meetings continue forward. Oren Liebermann, Alex Marquardt, thank you.

BOLDUAN: Joining us now for more on this is "Washington Post" columnist Josh Rogin.

Josh, thanks for coming out.

I mean, it seems -- cautious optimism seems to be kind of the word of the day, the mood of the day surrounding all of this. What do you see in this deal and the talk around it? What -- do you think -- what could, I don't know, still get in the way of this deal happening?

JOSH ROGIN, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right.

No, I mean, if it comes off, it will be the biggest diplomatic achievement since the war began after the Hamas terrorist attacks of October 7. But it's not a done deal yet. There's still an opportunity for spoilers.

As Jeremy pointed out earlier, Israel is likely to escalate prior to any cease-fire, as is often the case in these types of things. And then once it starts, because the deal is staggered over four or five days just for the first phase, all of that time, there's a lot of things that can go wrong, especially the fact that Hamas, we know, doesn't control all the hostages.

They don't control all the forces. They don't speak for all of the militant groups. Any one of those could throw a wrench into the works. And on the Israeli side, as Oren just pointed out, there are a lot of things that can get in the way of what they need to do.

And so I think we just have to hold our breath and hope that, over the next few hours, nothing gets in the way, because, if this does succeed, a lot of innocent people could be saved.

BOLDUAN: You hit on something that seems somewhat surprising that we -- is coming out of these conversations and the talks over this deal, is that Hamas says that it doesn't know where all the hostages are being held within Gaza and that they need time to find them.

Of course, you have to wonder. You're talking about taking the word of Hamas here. Is that to be believed? But, also, how does that complicate things if that is true?

ROGIN: Right.

No, I think also Israeli and U.S. officials will admit that their best belief is that a bunch of different groups, including criminal groups, took hostages on October 7 and still hold them. And some of them Hamas knows, and some of them Hamas may not know. And what Hamas has done is used this fact to argue for a pause in surveillance, aerial droning for up to six hours each day.

In other words, they told the Israelis, we need time to go find these guys, and we don't want you spying on us with drones while we're doing it. And that's a tough pill for the Israelis to swallow. We will have to see, wait and see, if that's in the final deal.

But it's certainly true that many of these hostages, including many of the hostages that have dual citizenship that are also citizens of countries other than Israel, could be held by anybody, even just regular criminal thugs. And that's a really complex problem that would be better solved if Hamas genuinely wants to help get those people out and can generally figure out where they are.

[11:10:08]

But we just don't know.

BOLDUAN: Yes, a complex problem within something that's already 100 percent, by definition, complex and complicated.

We have seen the families of hostages marching and protesting in Israel in order to get meetings, to get the attention of Benjamin Netanyahu and the war cabinet to do more. We saw families of hostages kind of in a shouting match with the war cabinet overnight.

With -- what do you think? Will the release of a significant number of hostages, those still by now way even close to all of them, what do you think that does in terms of that anger and frustration that we have been seeing?

ROGIN: I think it will, first of all, be a huge relief to those families who get their family members back and a huge ray of hope for those who are still -- will still be waiting, not just for their hostages, hostage family members, but also for information about them.

And so, in that sense, I think it's a -- to be seen as an accomplishment for the movement of family members and their supporters, who have been pressing the Israeli government, all the governments to put this at the top of their priority list.

And so I think there's a lot of sympathy for these families, as they press all of these governments to do more, to acknowledge that there's a tension at some point between military operations and doing what's necessary to get their people out, and that getting the people out should take priority.

And I think that pressure and that movement is a big part of why you see a lot of these high-level interactions. President Biden, the Qatari emir, lots and lots of very high-level government officials have spent a lot of time, are spending a lot of time on this, in part because these families and their supporters have been so passionate.

And I think this will, in one sense, give them a moment of relief and hope, but also gird them for what will surely be a long, continuing struggle ahead.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Josh Rogin, thanks for coming on.

ROGIN: Any time.

JIMENEZ: Now, coming up, we are going to continue to follow a lot of these breaking news developments as they're coming in.

As mentioned, they have been coming fast. We have been staying on top of it all. And, again, at this point, this meeting with the Israeli war cabinet should have started 10 minutes ago, so we will bring you details as soon as we have those.

We are also waiting on word from a federal appeals court. Will they restore a gag order limiting what Donald Trump can and cannot say about his election subversion case?

And after a massive advertiser exodus of some of the world's largest media companies. Elon Musk is now suing a group that highlighted antisemitic and pro-Nazi content on X.

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[11:17:19]

BOLDUAN: We're great take you to Washington right now. President Biden holding a previously scheduled meeting at the White House, but also now speaking about the negotiations over Israeli hostages. Listen to this.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... the hostages.

And Hamas has been holding them since October the 7th. We've been working on this intensively for weeks, as you all know. I have been spoken recently about it with both the prime minister, Netanyahu, and the emir of Qatar.

My team is down in the region shuttling between the capitals. We're now very close, very close, and could bring some of these hostages home very soon. But I don't want to get into the details of things, because nothing is done until it's done. And when we have more to say, we will. But things are looking good at the moment.

Now, we're here today to talk about fentanyl and how we can do more to save American lives. Fentanyl is likely the number one -- the number one killer...

BOLDUAN: All right, so we're listening in. Important to hear from President Biden just now saying publicly things are looking good right now in terms of negotiations to get hostages being held by Hamas terrorists released from Gaza.

We're very close. We could be bringing some of these hostages home soon. And things are looking good, though, of course, adding the caveat and the caution that he's not going to say more until it actually is until it actually happens. Important to hear from the president just there.

We're also looking at, as you can see, hearing from President Biden, a major moment right now in the Israel-Hamas war, Israel's war cabinet scheduled to meet this hour as a hostage deal between Israel and Hamas really could be imminent. We could be talking about a significant number of innocent hostages released.

At the very same time, this morning, take a look at this. There's multiple large explosions we're seeing in Northern Gaza. This was the scene of one of them just a few hours ago. Look at that plume.

And this is the view we will also show you from Sderot, where CNN's Jeremy Diamond is standing by for us.

Jeremy, we just heard President Biden speaking about this saying that we're very close in terms of these negotiations. What are you hearing right now?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, right at the moment, near the Gaza border, it is relatively quiet.

But over the last two hours, we have heard a series of intense booms coming from the direction of Gaza and some very striking scenes of fighting. And I want you to hear. Just about an hour ago, we heard some very, very powerful explosions coming from Northern Gaza.

I want to pause so you can hear just how loud it was. That was just one of two explosions that we heard just a few minutes apart. It really rattled the apartment where we are, shaking the windows and the door frames here in Sderot.

[11:20:18]

And, look, one thing that we have to keep in mind is, as we approach the possibility of a deal to free these hostages, as we approach a likely multiday pause in the fighting, four to five days and potentially longer if additional hostages are released after that, what we know from past conflicts between Israel and Hamas is that those 24 hours before a cease-fire or a temporary truce kicks in can sometimes be very, very violent.

And so one of the things that we are watching for this evening and over the next 24 hours is to see whether or not the fighting grows more intense. Already today, as I mentioned, we have seen several intense scenes of fighting, including smokescreens over the area of Beit Hanoun, indicating the movement of troops, potentially armor, as well as material.

And we will be monitoring to see if that fighting grows even more intense if indeed a deal is approved, as it could potentially be this evening -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Jeremy Diamond in Sderot for us, thank you.

JIMENEZ: A lot to talk about here.

Let's bring in CNN military analyst retired Major General James "Spider" Marks, who joins us now.

So, I want to start with, let's look at just some of the details on this deal. There would be a four-to-five-day pause. And in that pause, it's not like everyone lays down their weapons and goes on a lunch break. What does a pause like this typically mean militarily? What can and can't they do?

BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, what it means for the IDF is, they're at exposed, increased risk.

They're in the middle of Gaza. They're beginning operations that are heading down toward the southern portion of Gaza. They're inside the Gaza Strip, which means they are targets. And if there's a cease-fire, they will be very, very deliberate and very, very cautious in terms of their force protection measures, et cetera.

They're going to take care of themselves. That is priority number one. The challenge that you have is this four-day pause means that Hamas will, in fact, reposition, reinforce their positions, do everything in their power to move hostages, make it that much more difficult for the Israelis to really take advantage of the intelligence that they have built up over the course of the time that they have been in Gaza conducting military operations. (CROSSTALK)

MARKS: And I would say that, with a cease-fire -- yes.

JIMENEZ: No, go ahead. Go ahead.

MARKS: I was going to say, with a cease-fire like this, you could probably expect that there will be a violation of the cease-fire, probably from both sides.

Look, you have got 18-, 19-year-old young men and women that are in combat. They're at the edge. They're at the sharp edge. They're leaning forward, and now they're not supposed to engage. So something can happen. It would probably cause one of those elements to engage, return fire, and all of a sudden you have a violation, which could escalate.

That's an accident. You want to try to prevent it, but it could really happen.

JIMENEZ: Well, and it highlights how delicate a lot of the negotiations have been and how diplomacy can sometimes give way to reality on the ground.

But, again, that's why we have seen some cautious optimism at this point. And along -- as far as what we know in this deal, Israel would agree to stop flying surveillance drones over Northern Gaza for at least six hours each day, as far as we know to this point.

And if this goes through, it would be the longest pause we have seen since October 7. At this point, it's only been in spurts of hours. So you touched on some of it, but, if you're Israel, what would your concern over a days-long pause be?

MARKS: Primarily, Omar, it's the atrophy of the intelligence that you have been able to acquire over the course of time.

You have done great analysis, and now you are paused and you cannot move forward on the execution of tasks to go validate that intelligence and do something, do something that's targetable based on that intelligence.

And the overflight of drones, I really find that hard to believe. However, Israel also has the capacity to provide -- to conduct aerial operations that would allow them over Israel to slew their camera at an angle and still pick up intelligence.

JIMENEZ: And, to this point, negotiations haven't necessarily been happening directly between Hamas and Israel officials. We have had Qatari in-betweens, some U.S. influence as well.

But logistically here, how do you exchange hostages and prisoners when both sides don't necessarily trust the other side at point?

MARKS: You just used the word that really is -- that describes all of this, that should give all of us a level of concern, and that's trust. There is zero trust that exists between Hamas and the IDF and Israel writ large.

[11:25:02]

So there must be some form of an intermediary that physically engages to ensure that the right folks are being released from Israel and being returned. That will not be Hamas and IDF together doing a prisoner and a hostage swap. That will not happen. It'll be monitored, it will be conducted by a third party. Has to be.

JIMENEZ: And moving forward. Obviously, this is -- if it is approved, this would be a four-to-five-day pause as part of it, and some would question, all right, is this just a one-off? Is this the beginning of potentially a longer-term format of how to exchange hostages or prisoners?

For you, even in just four to five days, what do you see as the most difficult thing to maintain over those four to five days, again, to try and get some of these hostages exchanged?

MARKS: Well, Hamas hopes that this is the beginning of a pattern, because if there are two- to three- to four- to five-day breaks, and then an exchange of prisoners and hostages, and then another four-to- five-day break, that gives all the advantage to Hamas.

They can resupply reposition, as I have indicated. They gain as a result of that. This is a home fight. This is a home game for them. And as a result of what the IDF has been able to achieve, Hamas, with some type of a pause and then a series of pauses potentially, gives them a great advantage to take advantage of that time, resupply, reengage.

And you can imagine that, with the prisoner release from the Israeli prisons, these are Palestinian, both men and women. But I would imagine within the men population, even if they're children, 17, 18 years old, these are going to be Hamas fighters.

JIMENEZ: Well, and we will see what this potential deal yields, again, a lot of moving parts we have been watching on the Israeli side, a war cabinet meeting scheduled to get under way this hour, also President Biden just a few moments ago saying they are now very close.

We will see.

But, for now, Major General James "Spider" Marks, thank you.

BOLDUAN: And we are going to continue to have much more of this breaking news coming out of Israel, the government there meeting now, possible hostage deal imminent, as we heard from even President Biden just a moment ago. What -- how this could be a major moment in this war.

We will be right back.

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