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Hostage With Hamas Deal Imminent?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 21, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Two others have been confirmed dead by Israel.

Now, as we just saw, there are protests outside the Knesset, here in the United States and around the world, including, of course, in Israel. Some members of the hostages' families are approaching today's news with caution.

Listen to the great aunt of a 3-year-old who is hostage. You see her beautiful face there, Abigail Idan. Listen to her aunt speaking to CNN this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH HIRSH NAFTALI, GREAT AUNT OF HOSTAGE: We can't get our hopes up in a way that just believes that it's going to happen right in the next couple of hours.

But when I think about that on Friday is Abigail's fourth birthday and that she should be home with her family and with her sister and brother, and she isn't right now, it's just -- it's like you get your emotions. You have to keep them in check.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: We have global CNN coverage to bring you, some amazing reporters with their reporting that they have been delivering for days, particularly in the last few hours, on the latest of what they are hearing from their sources.

I want to start, Alex Marquardt, with you here in Washington. What specifics at this moment are you hearing about the parameters of this potential deal?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, what we have just learned in the past few moments, sources have told our colleague Kaitlan Collins and myself that the ball essentially is an Israel's court, that it has to be approved by Israel's government.

There are several different groups within the Israeli government, the war cabinet, security cabinet, and then the broader cabinet, who have to vote on this deal in order to get it approved by the Israeli side. But, otherwise, the deal is essentially all set and done. In terms of what we expect to play out after an announcement is made

is that, over the course of the next few days, four to five days, we are told, there will be a pause, a halt to the military fighting in Gaza between Hamas and Israel. And during those four to five days, some 50 hostages held by Israel -- held by Hamas -- excuse me -- would be released.

They are all women and children. They're all civilians. At the same time, around 150 Palestinian prisoners held by Israel would be released from Israeli prisons. That ratio of three to one would also apply for more hostage and prisoner releases going forward, because, Dana, there is a chance that, after that four-to-five-day pause that, if things go well, that we could see more hostages released.

So we would expect that, during that pause, there would be a rolling release of around 10 to 12 of these Hamas hostages, women and children, released per day. Now, remember, we have reported that these hostages have been held around the Gaza Strip. They have been held by different factions of Hamas, by different militant groups, including Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

There are two more major components to this agreement, as we understand it, Dana. Hamas has demanded more and continued humanitarian aid to go into the Gaza Strip, hundreds of trucks per day, up from the around 150 per day that we have seen, to closer to 300 or 400 trucks per day.

What we think the obstacle is there is the inspection mechanism. Israel has wanted to have oversight over everything that is going into the Gaza Strip, so we still need to understand better how the implementation would happen of those trucks going into Gaza.

And then finally, Dana, there was also the question of surveillance drones. All over Gaza, in the skies above Gaza, you have these Israeli surveillance drones flying quite low, collecting data on Hamas, trying to figure out where these hostages are.

This deal, we understand, includes a pause of six hours, during which time -- six hours per day, during which time these drones would not be allowed to fly above Gaza. But you can be sure, Dana, that there are other ways for Israel to peer into the Gaza Strip during these pauses.

The last thing I will say, Dana, is that it is, of course, terrific news that some 50 hostages are expected to be released. At the same time, there are 240 believed to be in Gaza right now. So this would be a distinct minority, a small part, just around 20 percent of the overall group of hostages taken by Hamas and others back on October 7.

BASH: Alex, thank you so much for that amazing reporting.

I want to go now to Tel Aviv. That's where our Matthew Chance is.

And, Matthew, you are standing there in a sea of people. Those people are the families of hostages being held. You just heard what Alex and Kaitlan are hearing from their sources who are dealing with sort of finalizing this agreement, that it's in Israel's court right now, that the ball is there. It is up to the Israeli government to approve it.

[13:05:01]

I am sure that the feeling that you have among the people around you is incredible pressure and anticipation.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I think it's fair to say, Dana, that feelings here are very mixed.

I mean, obviously, there's a great deal of excitement, happiness at the fact that this deal looks like it's going to be done. There's a government meeting right now under way in which it's expected that the Israeli government will approve this hostage swap deal in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.

But, obviously, as Alex was mentioning, it's going to be 50 people, maybe a few more than 50 people, if Hamas, according to Israeli government sources that I have spoken to, are prepared to offer up more hostages, in exchange for pauses in the fighting from Israel side.

And the people, of course, the hostages who are first in line to be released, according to what we know, are going to be the women and they're going to be the children. And, of course, that's fantastic news. But it means that there's lots of other people that will not be included in this first wave.

And so, again, mixed feelings. I spoke to one woman earlier whose nephew is from the settlement of Be'eri, which was attacked, like so many others, on October the 7th.

And his parents were killed. He's 38 years old. He was taken into Gaza. There's no chance, they say, no chance of him being released in this wave, if ever. And so it is with immense sort of mixed feelings and sadness that people are preparing for this very big potentially hostage release that could be agreed later on.

But, look, just to quickly give you a sense of the level of feeling, every night here in central Tel Aviv, just outside the Tel Aviv Museum of Art, people, ordinary Israelis, not just families, but sympathizers are coming out and they're laying this huge table out, a place set for every single one of the hostages that are held inside the Gaza Strip by Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups.

You can see there are cuddly toys, there are children's seats, children's lollipops, places for the many children that are held hostage in Gaza, also adult places as well, of course. And so it's just a sort of mark, a memorial to the fact that these people are still away from their homes, they're still being held.

And nobody knows how many of them, of course, are still alive. The other point that I want to put across very quickly is that there is a great deal of anger in -- amongst this group of people about how the Israeli government has handled this crisis, has handled this conflict.

The overwhelming view of people I speak to here is that the number one priority shouldn't have been destroying Hamas. It should have been getting Israeli citizens out of Gaza. And people here are, frankly, very angry that the government's priority, they believe, has been the opposite, has been destroying Hamas, and then bringing, getting the civilians out afterwards.

And they say they will not forgive the Israeli government for making that cynical, in their words, decision.

BASH: Yes, that's totally understandable.

Matthew, thank you for showing us that table and continuing to humanize what is obviously a process. There are politics, but these are people, including very small children, including one who is also an American citizen, Abigail, whose birthday is apparently this week. She will only be 4 years old.

Thank you so much for that. Appreciate it.

Let's come back here to the United States. And at the White House is our own M.J. Lee also doing incredible reporting on this.

M.J., we heard President Biden a little while ago. I know you were in that room when he spoke. What are you hearing from your sources at this point about where this deal lies?

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you heard President Biden saying himself that we are very close to a deal. That exactly echoes what CNN has been reporting all day.

And when I was in the room for those remarks, I did ask the president at the end whether he has a sense of how many Americans may be among the initial 50 hostages that are released. He said he will have plenty of time to talk about the hostages, but now it's not the time, basically, reticent to get into any of the details.

Dana, this has been such an urgent priority for the Biden administration. They have been saying all along that they believe there are at least a handful of Americans that were taken hostage by Hamas into Gaza. And now U.S. officials are saying today that they are hopeful that 3-year-old Abigail Idan will be among the 50 hostages that are released.

[13:10:00]

She is the youngest known American hostage. Her parents were killed by Hamas. But what we don't know right now, Dana, is how many other potential Americans may be in the mix. I think it's worth pointing out that this is not only significant, of course, and would be incredible news if some of these hostages were able to finally get out of Gaza, but also because this would mark the first significant pause in fighting since the war began, the first major de-escalatory step that we have seen Israel take.

And I think it's important to keep in mind that President Biden has not called for a cease-fire. He has said all along that calling for a cease-fire would basically give Hamas time to regroup and strengthen Hamas. And he has, though, however, called on his Israeli counterparts to consider a multiday pause in the fighting.

But Israelis have been very resistant to that. I remember, Dana, Prime Minister Netanyahu telling you just last weekend on our air when you were interviewing him, when you pressed him on this issue, he basically said a multiday pause in his mind is akin to a cease-fire.

So even just over a week ago, there was real resistance to this idea of a multiday pause in fighting. So I think you can get a sense of how much the Israelis are going to feel like they are putting on the line.

And then, finally, I will also just note, U.S. officials that we have been talking to this entire time, they have been very, very clear that when you talk about Hamas, there is no trust there. There are serious questions about their motivations.

They have not felt like there is any sort of real assurances that Hamas can offer at any given time, not to mention the questions about Hamas' own accounting of the hostages, that they don't even have a real sense of how many hostages there are, what the condition of the hostages are, where they might be.

And that has been a significant reason that the negotiations have been so incredibly complex and tough and also why, after the initial 50 hostages are released, we may see an extension of the pause in fighting if Hamas says they are able to locate additional hostages.

BASH: Truly unbelievable.

Thank you so much for that, M.J. Appreciate it.

Now I want to go to Doha, Qatar, where our Becky Anderson is and doing reporting on the critical lynchpin of these negotiations, and that is the government or government officials inside the country where you are.

Becky, what are you hearing right now?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. They have been mediating these talks between Israel and Hamas now for weeks, and they have said time and again they need a period of time to get what are these very complex and complicated talks over the line.

And we have sort of been here before, where it feels like there's a deal about to be done, only to find out that one side has either retracted a position or added in a demand.

Speaking to a diplomatic source very familiar with these talks here, they said today that they are very confident. And Qatar hopes to be able to make an announcement at any point now, soonish, about this deal. And the parameters that you have just been discussing with our colleagues are now quite clear, 50 hostages, mostly women and children.

In fact, I will say, I just heard from a source, it's almost entirely going to be children, as I understand it. So, do expect to see, if this deal is announced and if they can get this deal across the line in the next couple of hours or however long it takes them, and then we see these pauses, do expect to see significant number of kids being released from captivity.

And note -- I think you made the point right at the beginning of all of this couldn't be more important after the massacre on October the 7th, the 1,200 dead and those who were taken from that site, the party site and the kibbutzes around the Gaza envelope, 46 days being held hostage, particularly for these children, has just -- can only be described as an incredibly traumatic experience.

We are waiting to hear more from our sources as we speak, but I think it's really important to point out the language in what we expect to hear in an announcement, if you can get that in the coming hours. It will be a truce in the Gaza Strip.

That is how the mediators who are expected to announce this deal from Qatar are likely to couch their language, a truce in the Gaza Strip, the main pillar of which will be the release of this first tranche of hostages. These are civilian hostages. They are not males of military age or serving soldiers.

[13:15:06]

And that will be a real disappointment to those hostage families, who are obviously traumatized by the fact that their -- that their kids, their husbands are still being held and unlikely to be held for some time. This is a truce, not a cease-fire.

It's a truce for four days, as we understand it, to allow for the release of these prisoners. So, that's as things stand at the moment. And we know that the war cabinet has met. We know the security cabinet is now meeting. We are expecting to hear some detail on an announcement anytime soon -- Dana.

BASH: Becky, thank you so much for that reporting.

And just to sort of highlight one of the things that I had not heard that Becky just said is that we have heard that the 50 are expected to be women and children, but Becky just reported that her sources are telling her it is going to be mostly children.

We're going to talk more about this. We're going to sneak in a quick break, the breaking news coming out of the Middle East on a potential hostage deal.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:25]

BASH: And we're back with our breaking news.

A deal to bring home dozens of Hamas hostages, about 50, is the latest reporting. It's said to be imminent. Israel's government, as we speak, they are meeting to possibly approve the plan.

Here with us now to discuss, CNN military analysts retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton, CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger, and former Israeli National Security Adviser Eyal Hulata.

Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being here.

EYAL HULATA, FORMER ISRAELI NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Thank you.

BASH: I'm going to start with you, as somebody who has served in the Israeli government, and as they are the ones currently deciding whether or not this deal will go through.

HULATA: Yes.

BASH: You heard the reporting from all of our colleagues there in Israel and here in Washington talking to sources who were involved in this.

What could be the holdup? Obviously, it is controversial. There are lots of questions, including maybe the biggest, which is the four-or- five-day pause. What is your sense, as somebody who served in the Israeli government, of how it's going to go?

HULATA: So, as national security adviser, I organized the meetings of the security cabinet for the period of time that I was there.

The security cabinet is the body that has the authority to decide on such issues. Israel cannot start a war without approval of the security cabinet and Israel cannot go into a pause, as it's called right now in that regard.

And the controversy is around the fact that there are two contradicting goals that the government, that the security cabinet has approved for this war that can be contradicting. The first is to remove Hamas from its ruling Gaza, and not only to win it over, but also to free Gaza from Hamas' terror organization.

They turned against their own people. The second, of course, is to bring back all of the hostages, alive, if possible, meaning as soon as possible. And those two things, it's difficult to reconcile the two of them. And there is controversy among the security cabinet.

I expect this to be approved. Israel has delayed for several weeks. As Becky explained before, this has been in the making for several weeks, because the demand was to bring back as many as possible, and not to break the women and children group apart and slice it up, the way Hamas wanted, because it's like playing with our emotions.

And as I understand it right now, there is a -- the full group can be released. Hamas has said that they're all alive. And I expect this to be approved. I have to say that there is nothing to celebrate here. I mean, this will bring relief to some of the families, but, by and large, this doesn't end the war. Until all...

BASH: Well, it's celebrating the feelings of...

HULATA: Yes, of course.

BASH: Celebrating the human lives who are being -- especially children.

HULATA: Of course, personal are very important.

BASH: Yes.

HULATA: And for us as Israelis, for us as Jews, it's important to bring back alive, we say (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE), right, whoever saves one soul saves the entire world.

But this war will continue.

BASH: Yes.

HULATA: We need to get them all back as soon as possible.

BASH: I want to ask you, just from a military perspective, of one of the aspects of this deal, which is, during the pause, Israel would stop flying surveillance drones over Northern Gaza for at least six hours a day. Talk about the implications of that.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Dana, the real implication is that this gives them a potential gap in their intelligence coverage.

So, every time the Israelis fly a drone, they're, of course, gathering intelligence. Imagery intelligence, signals intelligence are the general sources that they use. And the key thing is that, during that time, Hamas fighters can move into position. They can potentially set up ambushes. They can lay IEDs, do things like that.

So it's potentially a dangerous time for the Israelis during that period. Now, there are other...

BASH: Forgive me for interrupting you.

The IDF is actually giving a briefing as we speak. Let's dip in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

REAR ADM. DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESPERSON (through translator): ... operation brings achievements, but there's still a long way.

We will still -- we will keep pressuring Hamas until the goals of the war will be achieved. With them, of course, is bringing back the hostages home. We will update the hostages' families on any information we will have on their loved ones, and then the public and the media.

Anything regarding this topic, I recommend listening to official representatives only. We will report on the truth once we have the details and the facts. [13:25:02]

During the day, forces of IDF continued deepening their operation in Gaza. We finished -- we completed the encirclement of Jabalia and deepened the combat in Zeitoun compound. Our forces expose terrorists and eliminate them. We have the upper hand on any battle. We will destroy Hamas fighters everywhere they are.

We continued exploring, exposing the terrorist paths under Shifa. We will expose more hospitals in Gaza. Hamas terrorists built an expanded terror infrastructure and are using the medical staff as human shields for terror operations. This is war crime and against the international law.

And we will expose it to the world in order to end this method. In the north, we eliminated anti-missile squads. And we will -- we are removing any immediate threat to our territory. This compound is a war zone out of which Hezbollah are operating terror attacks against the U.N. and Security Council.

Hezbollah is an organization of terror from south of Lebanon and is putting civilians' lives at risk. We will -- we have attacked weaponry infrastructure and headquarters of Hezbollah in response to shooting towards civilian compound in the north. There are no casualties for us.

We are both on the offensive on -- and the defensive. In the home command, we are continuing to update the guidelines. Please listen to it. So far, we have notified 390 IDF soldiers who fell in the combat on Israel. We hug, we embrace the families in their difficult, most difficult hours, and we will continue to be with them.

QUESTION: Regarding the deal, hostages deal, how can we ensure our forces will not be hurt during the cease-fire? What if Hamas will stop the deal once our forces are inside?

HAGARI: There is progress in regard to a deal with the hostages -- about the hostages. It needs to be agreed by the political people.

We are focused as the IDF on the combat. We will know how to estimate everything in such a way that our military achievements will be maintained. I suggest to wait until these things are sealed. I'm saying it because there might be a long road. I hope there won't be, but there is an option of that.

QUESTION: How do we know what's happening in Gaza during the time where our non-humane planes are not in the air?

HAGARI: I repeat what I have said. It's an important question. There is a path that they try to reach. IDF will know how to deal with any agreement and to maintain its achievement.

There is a long war with many stages, and, for this framework, there are also going to be stages. It's a long war. There are goals that's been agreed upon. And in order to achieve them, we need to have a long -- there's a long way ahead of us. And we need to maintain our military achievements and to prepare for the next stages of the war.

QUESTION: Is the cease-fire going to hurt the maneuver and give the Hamas time to prepare their next stage?

HAGARI: There are goals to the war, to demolish Hamas, to bring back the hostages, to bring -- to build secure borders for the citizens of Israel.

And -- and this is the goals that IDF got from the political rank. There are stages to that -- those goals. So, for now, the goal.