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NY Appellate Court Reinstates Gag Order Against Donald Trump In Ongoing Civil Trial; Former U.S. Secretary Of State Henry Kissinger Dead At 100; X CEO Defends Musk After He Tells Advertisers, "Go F**k Yourself." Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 30, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Against him. Trump appealed the ruling and the appeals court put it on pause temporarily to let him speak his mind. Hundreds of threats against Engoron and a law clerk were made public just last week. CNN legal analyst and former criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson with us now.

I do want to read a little bit about the statement that came out from the court of -- the ruling. It says now upon reading and filing the papers with respect to the motion and due deliberation, having been had thereon. It is ordered that the motion is denied. And that motion was brought by Trump -- his attorneys.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

SIDNER: Saying we should not be gagged, we should be able to speak our minds, then they look at the evidence. Is that basically what happened here?

JACKSON: So, it is, Sara. And I liked the way this was handled. And it was the right call, right? Forgetting about you like him, you don't like him --

SIDNER: Correct.

JACKSON: You hate him, whatever. It's not about that. Right? The law has to give voice to a balancing of priorities.

One priority, of course, is that we're in the midst of an election. And as a result of that, you should be able to attack and to state your peace. But you know, your rights end where someone else's rights really are impaired.

SIDNER: Right.

JACKSON: What do I mean? We heard a lot, right? You can't yell fire in a movie theater.

SIDNER: Correct.

JACKSON: Because someone else can be affected. You can't defame someone saying false things about someone. Here, I think what the court did was say, let's evaluate this.

We're not going to jump to any conclusions. We're going to pause the order, right, say what you want. We'll evaluate the law, strike the appropriate balance, and at the end of the day, I think they said the safety of individuals, you just mentioned that numerous threats --

SIDNER: Right.

JACKSON: Has to be paramount from your right to voice your concerns. You could speak. You just have to limit the things you say because it impairs others safety. And that's an important priority.

SIDNER: Especially the staff which is --

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: Just doing their job generally not out in front -- not the prosecutors who are out in front who are elected officials. All right.

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: Also, this morning, we're going to turn to another case -- another trial, although similar charges that Donald Trump will be facing and some of the others in his -- in the case of Georgia.

JACKSON: I hear RICO.

SIDNER: We're -- you hear RICO. You're going to hear it again. This is the second day of the testimony is underway in the trial -- the racketeering trial for the Grammy-winning rapper, Young Thug, and five other defendants. The rapper is accused of leading a violent criminal enterprise under the state's criminal racketeering law, also known, as Joey Jackson just said, as RICO.

All right. Let's talk about this. First of all, the prosecution versus the defense. What's each side saying? Because we are hearing from both now.

JACKSON: We really are. And so, there always are competing narratives in a courtroom, Sara. On the one hand, you're hearing the prosecutors say that he was part of, that is Young Thug, this enterprise.

And not only was he part of it, but he was the mastermind. And they were living in a lawless society. They were engaging in murder and aggravated assault and hijackings and carjack -- all kinds of stuff that they were talking about.

All right, on the other hand, and as a result of that, they will follow his lead, and we're going to hold you accountable. The defense says, not so fast. The reality is he is a child of the community, a person who brought himself up by engaging in rap lyrics, which by the way, they're trying to tether to guilt saying, this is a person who didn't engage in any of this at all.

He uplifted people by his music. He helped people by his music. And by the way, there's no evidence directly pointing to anything concerning his criminality. And so, those are the competing narratives over this very long month's long trial that we're going to hear moving forward.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about that. The rap lyrics have been a sort of a sticking point.

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: A lot of people looking at that. The rap lyrics basically the prosecution has said -- Fani Willis's office has said, if you say it, you know in rap lyrics, then we're going to charge you with it. I think those were her words. But like you said, there has to be evidence surrounding that, of course. Is this unusual to do this?

JACKSON: So, it's not unusual, but it is controversial, right?

SIDNER: Yes.

JACKSON: And so, the essence of it is, on the one hand, you have an artist who says this is art. I'm allowed to speak about issues on the street, to speak about whether they be dead bodies, shots, and tacos, I'm the boss, I'm the man, that is art, and it shouldn't be related to any criminality. On the other hand, you have the prosecution saying that you know what, we followed the murder, and we came up with the lyrics that seem to corroborate the murder.

It's really controversial. And as much as you have Congress debating the issue, Sara -

SIDNER: Yes.

JACKSON: With respect to the rap back, right?

SIDNER: Yes.

JACKSON: They're talking about whether this should be lawful. In California, a law was passed saying, don't base anything about lyrics, base it upon the evidence, and so we'll see where we are.

SIDNER: Basically, you're saying if the lyrics match the evidence, then you might have a problem as a defendant.

JACKSON: That's what the prosecution is saying.

SIDNER: Got you.

JACKSON: And that's what we'll see what the jury says.

SIDNER: Joey Jackson, it is always a pleasure to have you on, especially with those snazzy sparkly ties.

JACKSON: The privilege is mine.

SIDNER: It looks good. And you know, John is jealous. He's looking at that tie. He wants some of it.

JACKSON: John is jealous of no one, right?

SIDNER: He shouldn't be. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We do like sparkly things. It was like experiencing a nightmare. That is how one of the Palestinian college students who was shot in Vermont is describing the attack. 20-year-old Kinnan Abdalhamid says he -- that his EMT training helped them survive. This is what he said happened.

[11:35:01]

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KINNAN ABDALHAMID, SHOOTING VICTIM: On the way back, we see this man on the same side of the sidewalk on his porch, essentially looking away from us. And then we -- like, we're stepping closer towards our -- towards Tahseen's grandmother's house. And he turns around looks at us.

And without saying a word, it's almost surreal, just went down the steps, pulled out a pistol, and shot my friend. I heard the thud on the ground and then he started screaming. And that was kind of my signal to make a run for it. Before -- but -- and like essentially a split second later, he shot my other friend. And I heard his thud on the ground.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, police are considering whether to charge the suspect with a hate crime. With us now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller. So, John, one of the big questions here is will the suspect be charged with a hate crime? What are the considerations?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, right now, he's charged with the attempted murder times three, the aggravated assault times three, and you know, police say they have the offering of proof that a prosecutor needs there. The gun has been recovered in his dresser drawer. The bullets are in the apartment. The gun is matched to the shell casings found at the scene.

But to charge that hate crime, John, they need to show not even that it was the predominant motive in the shooting, but that it was a factor. But they need to be able to prove that. And the fact that he said nothing to the victims has made that a challenge that they're trying to get through now.

BERMAN: How do you get beyond that then? You say it's a challenge. How do you then go prove it was a hate crime if the suspect didn't say anything?

MILLER: So, this is where the FBI is playing a very large role in the Burlington police investigation. They have brought in the CART team from the Boston field office. That's their computer analysis response team.

They are working on the evidence seized in the search warrants, which includes a laptop, an iPad, five different cell phones, and literally a backpack full of hard drives. As well as the online accounts and postings of Jason Eaton to see well, what was he saying in the days leading up to this? What were his posts prior? Are there references that could tie to the hate crime?

In the background of that, the FBI's criminal profilers, the Behavioral Science Unit, are developing a profile based on everything they can learn about him in that social media to see if they can deliver a case that would amount to a hate crime charge on top of this. Either way, given the charges he's facing, it wouldn't add a lot of time. But the community is looking for acknowledgment here.

BERMAN: John Miller, great to have you on. Thank you so much for that. Sara.

SIDNER: All right, one of the most influential and controversial foreign policy figures in American history, Henry Kissinger, has died. He was 100 years old. We'll take a look back at his life. Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:42:28]

SIDNER: Former U.S. Secretary of State and National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger has died. He was 100 years old. Kissinger escaped Nazi Germany when he was a boy, then went on to become one of the most influential and the most controversial foreign policy figures in American history. Primarily working under President Richard Nixon.

With us now to talk about his life and his complicated legacy is CNN political analyst, Julian Zelizer. Thank you so much for being here. You're a historian as well, and a professor at Princeton University.

Good morning to you. I do want to start with Kissinger's accomplishments. What was it that made him such a huge and prominent figure in this world?

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, arguably the most important moment people are remembering is in 1972 when he was one of the key architects of the SALT agreements with the Soviet Union. It was a major arms agreement that was part of the policy of detente, an easing of relations with the Soviet Union.

SIDNER: Yes.

ZELIZER: And he played a key role in opening relations with China. And in 1973, he helped to contain the Arab-Israeli war, the Yom Kippur War and began what was called shuttle diplomacy. Negotiations that would culminate under really President Carter. So, I think in terms of the positive assessments people are talking about, that's the key.

SIDNER: And he was still doing some of this. I mean, he was in China not too long ago. He is still sort of working towards some of this.

I do want to ask you about the controversy. This is pretty stark. The Rolling Stones put this out today, and I just want to show people what they said. They -- on his, you know, obituary, they are saying, war criminal, beloved by the ruling class finally dies. It is rare that you see something like that, speaking bad of -- speaking ill of the dead. But that is quite a statement there. Can you give us a reflection on this animosity and this controversy, especially, I think about the Vietnam era?

ZELIZER: Sure. I mean, it builds on a very real part of his record. Many people agree that Kissinger and Nixon prolonged the Vietnam War. After Nixon took office in 1969, the administration conducted a secret bombing campaign in Cambodia, a carpet bombing campaign. That was absolutely devastating.

[11:45:04]

And were involved in numerous covert operations, including a 1973 when there was a U.S.-backed coup of a democratically elected government in Chile. And there's many examples like that which left many casualties and really undermined stability in different parts of the globe. And that's what people are referring to.

And a lot of it was done in secrecy. It was done without measures of accountability, without Congress or the public knowing. And I think that's what the article is referring to.

SIDNER: Yes. You know, it is really stark to see something like that. And you know that there are very strong opinions about his time in office.

I do want to ask you about his time when he was officially out of office, but he was still doing, you know, public policy -- he was still doing foreign policy, and very much on the world stage. Can you give us some sense of what his life was like after he left the administrations?

ZELIZER: Yes, he's one of the few figures to really survive politically, Watergate and the Nixon administration. And he becomes one of the most well-known statesmen in the world really, consulted with presidents, both Democrats and Republicans. He wrote ongoing books and articles about world affairs, including issues such as U.S.- China relations.

And he continued as he did when he was at the NSC and State Department to court the media and make himself almost a celebrity states person, which I think for a while, it was part of how this other side of his record didn't get as much attention. But he's been very active right through his passing.

SIDNER: Yes, more than 70 years active in foreign policy. It is quite a long accomplishment. Thank you so much, Julian Zelizer, for looking back on the life of Henry Kissinger who died at 100 years old. John.

BERMAN: All right. Elon Musk naming names and telling advertisers to go blank themselves. New fallout from Musk F-bomb gate this morning.

In this Sunday, the all-new CNN film Chowchilla, which tells one of the most shocking true crime stories you have never heard, the 1976 kidnapping of a school bus full of children and their driver, they were buried underground for more than 12 hours before orchestrating their own dramatic escape. The incident captivated the nation and became a turning point in our understanding of the treatment of childhood trauma. This is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chowchilla was a wonderful place to grow up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They wore little innocent children. Never did I think something like this could happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does that school bus show up missing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not want to go down there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like somebody just took them up off the planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it a thrill crime?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your guess is as good as mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a mystery. You had no answers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They recovered with journal encrypted and unusual reading.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never seen anything like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kidnappers hit this town right in its heart by taking those children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the way through, they thought that they had bought up everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, we're being buried alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I thought to myself, we're going to die -- we're going to die getting the hell out here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we got home, I thought life would be OK. The kids were not OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God forgive them because I will --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was possibly the story of the Century.

ANNOUNCER: Chowchilla, Sunday at 9:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:53:11]

BERMAN: This morning, the CEO of X, Linda Yaccarino, is defending her boss Elon Musk after he told fleeing advertisers, wait for it, to go F themselves. She posted her defense saying X is enabling information independence, says uncomfortable for some people. And here's my perspective when it comes to advertising. X is standing at a unique and amazing intersection of free speech and Main Street.

CNN's Oliver Darcy is with me now. I'm not sure that fully addresses the go blank yourselves, but I -- it is a response.

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes. I mean, I don't know what to make of Linda's response other than -- other than to say it's just detached from reality. The reality of that situation, John, is that advertisers are fleeing because of Musk's own decisions and his unhinged behavior.

And so, his decisions have led to a surge in hate speech and conspiracy theories on X. Decisions like welcoming you know back white nationalists and other decisions he's made. But frankly, he's contributed a lot to the horrible rhetoric on the platform. He's smeared the press.

You know, he's promoted conspiracy theories himself like Pizza Gate lately and that last or a couple of weeks ago, he made that antisemitic endorsement. And so that's why advertisers like Disney, like Apple, IBM, CNN's parent company, Warner Brothers Discovery, NBC Universal, Linda Yaccarino's former employer, that's why they've decided to flee this platform.

And what's remarkable is that yesterday when he was on stage, instead of trying to woo back advertisers, instead of saying, look, I was wrong, I'm apologizing for it, please do come back and we really want your business, he instead told his advertisers to F off effectively securing the fate of the platform. And according to Elon Musk himself, the fate of the platform is it's going to die because they have no advertising revenue, which is of course, how X earns most of its money.

[11:55:04]

So, the prognosis for X, according to Elon Musk is not good. And instead of trying to get the company back in a healthier position, he's instead lashing out at advertisers.

BERMAN: In 10 seconds or less, did telling him to go F themselves make him seem more hinged?

DARCY: I -- he -- I'm not sure he can see more unhinged lately, John, than he's -- that -- the behavior he's demonstrated lately. But I guess this adds to it. I'm -- he's clearly not someone who is reined in at all.

SIDNER: Right.

BERMAN: Over Darcy, thank you. You always hinged, Oliver Darcy.

SIDNER: I've never heard that expression.

BERMAN: Thank you.

SIDNER: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Thank you very much.

SIDNER: And thank you for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)