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Trump Targets Biden, Claims Threat To Democracy; Trump Vows Obamacare Repeal Despite Popularity; GOP Advances Impeachment Inquiry Into Biden; Israel's Gaza Operation Shifts South; Family Held Hostage, Fate Uncertain In Gaza; UN Warns Of Deepening Humanitarian Crisis; IDF Investigates Hamas Claims On Hostages; Plea For International Support In Hostage Crisis. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 04, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:38]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Former President Trump makes a new vow to repeal the Affordable Care Act, despite it being more popular now than the last time that he promised to kill it. Why President Biden -- Why President Biden's campaign is relishing this new fight?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, Hamas claims an Israeli airstrike killed a family that they kidnapped, including their youngest hostage this 10-month-old baby. A relative is going to join us to talk about what they know regarding this tragic claim. And a former U.S. ambassador arrested, accused of spying for Cuba for decades. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: Today, the Biden campaign is responding to comments that former President Trump made over the weekend, where he told a crowd of supporters in Iowa that it's President that poses a threat to democracy. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Joe Biden is the destroyer of American democracy, and it's him and his people. So, if Joe Biden wants to make this race a question of which candidate will defend our democracy and protect our freedoms, and I say to Crooked Joe, and he's crooked, the most corrupt president we've ever had, we will win that fight, and we're going to win it very big.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A Biden campaign spokesman said, Donald Trump's America in 2025 is one where the government is his personal weapon to lock up his political enemies. You don't have to take our word for it. Trump has admitted it himself. With us now, we have CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes. Kristen, I mean, we should be clear here. Former President Trump is facing multiple felonies for attempting to overturn the 2020 election. Kind of some projection here, but it's certainly not a good thing. It certainly works with his supporters. Beyond that, does it work?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, well, first of all, it's not even just the fact that he's facing these felonies. We also know that he has threatened to terminate the Constitution at times. He has gone over and over again to criticize the election, which is the democratic process, not just in 2020, but just the process overall. But this is a bit of projection, as you said. Now, his main reasoning, the crux of his argument, is that Biden is using the Justice Department to essentially persecute a political enemy, that enemy, of course, being Donald Trump.

Now, what is so interesting about this is that Donald Trump has said on the record publicly that he, if reelected, would use the Justice Department to go after his enemies. Now, some of that argument, he says, is because Biden did it, but also saying that he, too, would do this. Now, in terms of who this resonates with, well, his supporters cheer for him. They do believe that this is political persecution. They do believe that it is a two-tiered justice system. And they do believe that it is a two-tiered justice system. And they do believe that it is a two-tiered justice system. Does it go beyond that? Likely not. But this is clearly his version of trying to turn the tables and say, no, I'm not the problem. You're the problem.

KEILAR: This pledge to get rid of Obamacare, when Obamacare is actually pretty popular, what is, what's the strategy here? And what are the possible landmines here?

HOLMES: Well, I know a lot of Republicans who would also like to know what the strategy is here as well, because most of them don't want to --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Tell them, Kristen.

HOLMES: Most of them do not want to do anything with Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act. As you said, it's actually a very well-favored program here in the country. And they remember what happened in 2017, when Donald Trump, basically his biggest campaign promise, was unable to fulfill, even though he had a Republican majority in Washington. They could not repeal and replace Obamacare.

Now, this is all because Donald Trump read an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal that said that Elizabeth Warren had some questions, as well as Republicans. And he thought that if there was bipartisan dislike for Obamacare, it might be time to bring it back up. But again, if you look at the polling, Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, is actually much more popular now. People rely on it, millions of Americans. And Republicans really don't want to go down this path. They would rather focus on the border and immigration and inflation, not take this turn back to health care.

[14:05:00]

KEILAR: You have an argument that, for instance, Ron DeSantis is making that Donald Trump has too much baggage. He can't win a general election. Even if that is true, it doesn't seem that a DeSantis or even a Nikki Haley is someone positioned to even close to outperform Donald Trump in a primary.

HOLMES: Yeah. I mean, as we've seen this inner turmoil with the DeSantis camp, we've also seen the surge of Nikki Haley. But when you look at the polling, she's still trailing so far behind Donald Trump. And if the polling is correct, it would be very hard for her to catch up, at least in Iowa. When it comes to electability and the argument on electability, when that argument was first being made in 2022, right around the midterms, right after the midterms, when Donald Trump really, even though he wasn't on the ballot, lost so many of his candidates that he had supported lost.

People really believe that argument. And I think Republicans, even his supporters, believe that argument that he was not electable in a general election, that he could not beat Joe Biden. I do think that time and the kind of the media climate and polarization of this country have changed that. Even if it is not true that Donald Trump could win in a general, which we just don't know right now, obviously, they don't believe that Biden can win in a general election.

They are so unsatisfied with the current president that they believe any of the Republican candidates could beat Joe Biden. So that argument is just not as strong, particularly about Donald Trump. As it was back in 2022.

KEILAR: Very interesting. Kristen Holmes, thank you so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: On Capitol Hill, Republican House leadership is moving closer to a potential floor vote to formally authorize an impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden, a vote that could come as soon as this week. CNN's Melanie Zanona joins us now. And Melanie, with a very, very narrow majority. The question for House Speaker Mike Johnson is, where are the moderates? Do we have a read on where they stand right now?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITAL HILL REPORTER: Well, there is growing confidence among top Republicans that they are going to have the necessary votes to officially open this impeachment inquiry. And I talked to one of those moderate Republicans, Don Bacon. He's someone who's been very skeptical of impeachment. And he told me that he would vote in support of opening this inquiry. But others have been a lot more skeptical, have not said where they would vote. So this is going to be a critical week for GOP leadership in whipping those votes and getting the necessary support.

Now, they did have a special conference meeting last Friday where a bunch of GOP committee chairmen and leaders made their case behind closed doors for why they believe it is time for them to officially vote to authorize this inquiry that's already been going on for a few months. They say this would strengthen their hand in court. They argue that the White House has been stonewalling them, but the White House has forcefully pushed back on those claims. So, these next two weeks are going to be critical. Like I said, Speaker Mike Johnson also, I'm told, talked at a New York fundraiser over the weekend in front of donors about impeachment.

Clearly, they are not shying away from this. He vowed to hold a vote before the end of this year, but they're going to have the votes before they ultimately get there. And in the meantime, Speaker Mike Johnson has really been trying to wrangle the hardliners in his conference. Of course, impeachment is something they have been pushing for, so this could be a way to placate some of those members. But Marjorie Taylor Greene has been one of the most outspoken critics in the party. She's been criticizing some of her fellow Republicans for not getting on board with some other impeachment efforts, including to impeach Alejandro Mayorkas, the Homeland Security Secretary. Our Manu Raju caught up with her just last weekend. Let's hear what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R- GA): And I'll remind everyone that I didn't come here to make friends. I came here to do a job, and I represent my district, and I unapologetically represent the American people. As far as other members of Congress, if they're upset with me, they can come talk to me anytime they like. But my position will be that we need to be doing the jobs that we promise our voters and that we tell people we're going to do instead of just talking tough on the campaign trail and coming up here and falling apart.

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ZANONA: We'll see if these latest moves from Johnson and the leadership are enough to tame Greene. Last week, she tried to force a floor vote on impeaching Mayorkas. She ultimately backed off after she received private assurances from Johnson that a Mayorkas impeachment would also move through committee and onto the floor. But again, they have a razor-thin majority that just got smaller after they expelled George Santos. So, we'll see whether they have the votes in the end there, guys.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, a lot to watch out for. Melanie Zanona from Capitol Hill, thank you so much. Let's dig deeper now with congressional reporter for Politico, Olivia Beavers. Olivia, thank you so much for being with us. When former Speaker Kevin McCarthy first pushed forward this impeachment inquiry of Joe Biden, he did it unilaterally without a formal vote on the House floor because there were questions as to whether he had enough votes. Speaker Johnson seems confident that he's got the votes. What changed?

OLIVIA BEAVERS, CONNGRESSIONAL REPORTER FOR POLITICO: There's been a bit of a tie that's changed, and I think it's the argument. So, you're seeing Congressman, you know, Don Bacon and some of the other Biden district Republicans who say they've been convinced because they want a stronger hand in getting depositions and hearing from witnesses and receiving records. But I think what you were just talking about is we can see a huge evolution from when Kevin McCarthy was speaker, and there was this huge blowback against the idea of them having a vote. And now that's exactly what they're marching towards either the end of this week or next week.

[14:10:29]

SANCHEZ: Yeah. When it comes to the criteria for an impeachment, the speaker has said repeatedly that in comparison to Donald Trump's two impeachments, this is not political, that there is evidence that Joe Biden had something to do with wrongdoing. Very nebulous when it comes to the evidence. Do you think that Republicans have put forward enough of it so far to merit this process? Have they made a compelling case, perhaps not to their own party, but to the American people?

BEAVERS: Well, first of all, we're talking about Congress. So, there is always an element of politics. And I think, you know, Republicans argued that the last impeachments of Donald Trump were political. And you're going to see Democrats argue the same here. The difference is we're going to probably see a split vote. It's going to rely. And that's why they have to have almost all Republicans vote to start this impeachment inquiry, because we're not expecting House Democrats to vote for it.

They're arguing that this is just the next step. It's a formal step. And there are some Republicans who are already sort of dismissing the idea of actually taking the next step of formal impeachment. Now, if you kind of talk with some of the other Republican colleagues who want to impeach Joe Biden, they say, then why are we even taking this step in the first place? So, again, we're seeing a divided Republican Party on this subject matter.

SANCHEZ: Right. There's also disagreement between Republicans and one key figure in this inquiry, and that is the president's son, Hunter Biden. He wants an open hearing. His attorneys have argued for an open hearing before Congress. They're arguing for a deposition, a private one. Any indication as to where things are headed in that dispute?

BEAVERS: My understanding is that they recently sent a letter asking for confirmation that he's going to testify on December 13th. James Comer, head of oversight, Jim Jordan, head of judiciary, they basically said, we'll record it and then release it with a transcript eventually. But Hunter Biden's lawyers, like you pointed out, are saying, we don't want you selectively leaking, so we want it public. So.

SANCHEZ: Olivia Beavers. Thank you so much for walking us through that. Appreciate it. Still more to come on News Central, including Israel's military, saying the operation in northern Gaza is nearly complete as airstrikes continue to pound the southern part of the enclave. We have a live report on the latest on the fighting and where negotiations stand in just moments. Also ahead, we're speaking to the relative of a family who was told by Hamas that their cousins, including a 10-month-old baby and a four-year-old child have been killed. Stay with us. You're watching CNN News Central. We'll be right back.

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[14:15:39]

SANCHEZ: Israeli defense forces are describing their mission in northern Gaza as nearly completed right now. But ground operations are expanding throughout the enclave. The IDF says that they are moving units into southern Gaza, areas that have become a sanctuary to some one million Palestinians who have fled from the north since the start of the war. As the threat for those refugees rises, so too does the humanitarian crisis on the ground. The UN said today that more than 80 percent of Gaza's roughly two-thirds of the population are in the country. The U.S. has said that more than 80 million residents are now displaced. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS WHITE, DIRECTOR, UNRWA AFFAIRS IN GAZA: If you look at Rafah, it used to have a population of 280,000 people. We know that there are over 700,000 people in the city now and more people are coming. And so in Rafah, we were struggling to provide two liters of drinking water per person every day. That issue is just going to be compounded beyond the issues of providing basic sanitation.

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SANCHEZ: The death toll in Gaza is closing in on 16,000, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health. Pressure is mounting on Israel from leaders in the United States and around the world to do more to protect Gaza's vulnerable citizens. CNN's Ben Wedeman is live for us in Jerusalem. So, Ben, what is the IDF saying about its push south?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they've been fairly vague about the details of their push, but we understand that there are Israeli tanks moving south on the south. And so, we're going to have to wait and see what happens. The Hamas is moving south on Salah al-Din Street, which is the main north-south road in Gaza. But they haven't really gone into the population centers yet. But we have heard from Yoav Galant, the Israeli defense minister, who said that the fate of Hamas fighters in the south is going to be the same as Hamas fighters in the north, where they say they have almost completed achieving their objectives.

But, of course, the situation in the south is, as you mentioned, they're going to be the same. And so, we're going to have to wait and see what happens. There are so many people crammed into that area. And within the last hour, we got a statement from Philippe Lazzarini, who's the head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, which deals with Palestinian refugees. And he said that the resumption of the military operations and its expansion in southern Gaza is repeating horrors from the past weeks, and that news of an Israeli operation in southern Gaza has spread panic, fear, and anxiety. Given that this area is so crammed with people, any sort of ground operation by the Israelis will inevitably result in a significant number of civilian casualties, Boris.

SANCHEZ: And, Ben, with so many people now displaced, have we gotten any indication from the IDF about when they might allow more aid into Gaza?

WEDEMAN: Well, aid has been coming in. Saturday, 100 trucks came in from Egypt. Sunday, 100. And I understand 85 trucks entered from Egypt. But that's really just a drop in the bucket, considering that before the war, 500 trucks were coming in. And the needs that are presently in southern Gaza, in terms of fuel, food, medicine, the basics, they're just not enough. And the capacity, some of the infrastructure, really isn't there.

[14:20:00]

The U.N. had to put out a statement telling people in Gaza, no, we don't have enough tents to build a tent city for all the people who are being displaced. So, the worry is that more and more people are going to be concentrated in an ever smaller area without adequate medicine, food, water and shelter and, of course, a complete lack of safety. So the situation is getting dramatically worse. And there doesn't seem to be any indication that there's going to be somehow a greater influx of aid into Gaza. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Ben Wedeman, Live for us in Jerusalem. Ben, thanks so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: Relatives of the Bibas family are speaking out now after being told last week by Hamas that three of their four family members held hostage in Gaza have been killed. Yarden Bibas, his wife, Shiri, and their two sons, four-year-old Ariel, and 10-month-old Kfir were taken hostage from their kibbutz on October 7th. Kfir, of course, is the youngest Israeli in captivity. You've definitely seen these children's faces in photos. Hamas says that he, his brother and mother were all killed by an Israeli airstrike.

To be clear, CNN has not been able to confirm that claim, nor their alleged deaths. And the IDF says it is investigating that claim, but certainly has not confirmed it. Joining me now is Eylon Keshet, who is the cousin of Yarden Bibas. Aylin, thank you so much for being with us. We are just so incredibly sorry for what your family is going through and all of this uncertainty. What do you understand at this point in time? What can you tell us?

EYLON KESHET, COUSINS TAKEN HOSTAGE BY HAMAS: We know as much as you do, we have no information about their well-being and about the claims, but we believe in our hearts that they are still alive and we must fight to bring them back home.

KEILAR: What is the Israeli? government telling you as the IDF says they are investigating this claim? Are they giving you any sense of how they are able to go about doing that?

KESHET: Not really, because this is mostly classified for the safety of their operations and their hostages themselves.

KEILAR: Is there any reason to believe that Hamas may be making this up? Have you heard anything?

KESHET: I don't know how they operate and how they think. It's clear that it's not like you and I would think. So I wouldn't dive into their psychology and their way of thinking. But me as a family member, I must believe that my family is alive and I must do everything I can to get help, international help, President Biden's help to get them back home.

KEILAR: What is the Israeli government's obligation to do this? What is the Israeli government's obligation for getting your family members back? Should they delay bombardment of Gaza in order to get male hostages like your cousin Yarden out?

KESHET: I don't know the best way to get them out because I'm not a strategist. I don't know if the best way is through military action, if they know anything about the location and want to pull them out, or whether a ceasefire and an agreement would be the better way. I do think that they must put their lives as a first priority and everything else should be a second priority. Because time is running out and they are kept, and generally, we know for other hostages they are kept in poor conditions. So, for a baby like this, it's a death sentence. Every day that goes by, they might die. Jordan, of course, also heard about the claims of his family. And in this mental state, he could also die of heartbreak and very poor health. So that's what we know.

KEILAR: What is the responsibility of the Israeli government? What do you say to the Israeli government? As right now, obviously, they've pulled negotiators out of Qatar. They are proceeding with the bombardment now moving towards southern Gaza. What we keep telling them each and every day is that this has been too long since the 7th of October. It's approaching 60 days, and it's a nightmare scenario for us. It's really, really hard. And they really need to understand that their lives are at stake, and it's way too long. This is 58 days, and it's 58 days too long since. They've been kidnapped, and they already lost so much they lost their home. They lost their dog. They lost their grandparents who were murdered.

[14:25:19]

KESHET: So, we remind them each and every day that this is what matters and this is what they should be doing every day. And every day when they start their day, they need to look them in the eyes and understand that they have to get them back home.

KEILAR: Eylon, we do know that some of these hostages who were later released, they say that they did hear some news while they were there. What do you want Yarden and his family to know? What do you say to him? What do you say to them?

KESHET: So I wasn't prepared for this question and it hit me like a truck. But Yarden, we love you. And Shiri. And Kfir. And Ariel, we love you. And we miss you so much. And we are waiting every day for your return. And we are fighting each day for your return. And we dream to hug you again and to support you and to be able to help you smile again. Because we know this is a nightmare for you as well as us. So if you can hear it, we want you back home. And we want you back in one piece.

KEILAR: Eylon, thank you so much for being with us. And we certainly hope that they hear your message.

KESHET: I would just like to say one last thing. Because for all the American citizens at home and for President Biden himself, yourself, please help us bring them back. Put international pressure on the Hamas to release them. Because they can't be used as any, bargaining chip, and part of any game or any reason whatsoever. This is their lives. This is real people lives at stake. And they need to remember that these are all children and innocent people. They can't be kept like this. And it's inhumane and it's evil. And please, every one of you, please help us. I beg every one of you.

KEILAR: Eylon, thank you so much for sharing your message. We appreciate you being here. And thank you for being with us today.

KESHET: Thank you.

KEILAR: And we'll be right back.

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