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Trump Says, I Won't Abuse Power Except for Day One; Tonight, Haley, Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL), Ramaswamy and Christie on GOP Debate Stage; DOJ Charges Russians With War Crimes Against American in Ukraine. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 06, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Will you abuse power, break the law, or go after people? After giving no answer, Donald Trump finally pledges to be a dictator on day one.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plumes of smoke rising over Gaza again this morning as we're now hearing from freed hostages confronting the Israeli prime minister in leaked audio why she's angry at the Israeli government.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: A killing spree in two major Texas cities leaves six people dead and two police officers wounded, and investigators say one suspect is behind all of that violence.

I'm Sara Sidner with John Berman and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN News Central.

BERMAN: This morning, a promise from Donald Trump to be a dictator, yes, with conditions, but a pledge, nonetheless. And how he got there is even more telling. Facing questions from Sean Hannity, not exactly a probing interrogation from Edward R. Murrow, but asked if he would abuse power, break the law, or go after people, watch how long it took Trump to offer any answer at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEW HOST: But I want to be very, very clear on this. To be clear, any way, have any plans, whatsoever, if re-elected president, to abuse power, to break the law, to use the government to go after people?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: You mean like they're using right now?

HANNITY: You are promising America tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?

TRUMP: Except day one.

HANNITY: Except for? TRUMP: Except for day one. I want to close the border and I want to drill, drill, drill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, asked whether he would abuse power, you saw it there, no answer for nearly five full minutes. And then when he had an answer, it was, yes on day one on certain issues.

CNN's Alayna Treene is with us now. And this is not a bug of the Trump campaign at this point, Alayna. It seems to be a feature.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: I think that's exactly right, John. And as you saw there, Sean Hannity tried a few times to get Donald Trump to take the opportunity to deny some of the recent reports that he plans to use a future Trump administration or a second Trump administration to go after his political opponents.

And Donald Trump didn't do that. He deflected it and instead tried to flip the script on Joe Biden, arguing that he's the one who is abusing power and pointing to the four indictments that Donald Trump is facing.

But, look, I think we have to be very clear here that Donald Trump has said himself publicly in interviews and on the campaign trail that if he is elected in 2024, he does have plans to use the Department of Justice to go after his political enemies.

And I think that's very important to keep in mind here. There are also plans that when I speak to the campaign and talk to his inner circle, they don't deny those plans. And so I think that's important for context for all of this.

Now, I also do, John, just want to point you to another very interesting exchange that happened last night during that town hall. There's a lot of talk about a potential general election fight between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. And Trump used the opportunity really to, in the most explicit language that we've heard yet, to say that he doesn't think Joe Biden would be the nominee in 2024. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I personally don't think he makes it, okay? I haven't said that. I'm saving it for this big town hall.

I personally don't think he makes it physically. Mentally, I would say he's possibly equally as bad and maybe worse, but I don't know.

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[10:05:04]

TREENE: Now, John, also last night, Joe Biden was speaking to donors and he said behind closed doors that he's not sure that he would run if Donald Trump wasn't running, and that came to the surprise of many Biden officials. And I think it just offers a very interesting split screen preview of what we can expect as we head into the 2024 election year.

BERMAN: Yes, absolutely. And people need to listen to what these candidates say. And right now, Donald Trump has said he will use the government to go after political opponents. Kash Patel, who has been working with Donald Trump, said that might include members of the media as well.

Alayna Treene, thanks so much for being with us. Kate?

BOLDUAN: So, the top four remaining Republican candidates trying to stand between Donald Trump and the Republican nomination, they're taking the stage tonight with just 40 days left until the Iowa caucuses. It's essentially become do or die time to win over more support for these candidates taking the stage as time is clearly running out for someone to significantly chip away at Trump's dominant lead, and, of course, Donald Trump not taking the stage again tonight.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is joining us now from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, where it is all happening this evening. What do you expect? I mean, I'm obviously -- first and foremost, you've got Nikki Haley versus Ron DeSantis to be the Trump alternative. Well, how are they going to do that?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Kate. Look, it's the smallest stage with just four candidates on stage, but certainly the biggest moment, particularly for Nikki Haley and even more so likely for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

We've really seen throughout the course of these debates, Nikki Haley has risen. And Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has basically plateaued, if not fallen a little bit. So, tonight certainly is a moment we will see the two of them center stage.

And, really, in the weeks leading up to this debate, their conversation has changed. We've seen DeSantis accuse Haley of not being a true conservative. We've seen him sort of go after that endorsement she got from the Koch Network, saying that she is simply a tool of the establishment.

Look for her to push back on that tonight. Without question, she has been rising throughout the fall months, debate by debate by debate. We've seen it in her events in early voting states. We've seen it in the number of supporters and donors she's attracting.

So, that dynamic tonight certainly will be the most important one. They clearly are locked in a race for second place, if you will, looking to be a Trump alternative. But, Kate, the biggest question of all, are Republican voters looking for a Trump alternative? And is it one of the two of them?

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about another. What about Chris Christie? He's battling back reports and stories of donors publicly calling for him to bow out of the race, throw his support behind Nikki Haley. He's going to be on that debate stage. What does he do? ZELENY: And he's very happy to be here. The reality is he barely made the criteria to be on the debate, but he did. He made the polling and the donor criteria, as set out by the RNC, so he will be on stage here tonight.

And, Kate, I'm watching for the dynamic between him and Nikki Haley as well. Here's why. He, of course, is focusing his campaign in New Hampshire. The New Hampshire primary, January 23rd, a week after the Iowa caucuses opened this contest, and independent and moderate voters there are so important to his future, his success. So, he's sort of in the same lane that Nikki Haley is.

So, is he going to tangle with her or is he going to perhaps help her by going after Florida Governor Ron DeSantis' record? He has been pretty aggressive and sharp on that. So, there's a bit of three- dimensional chess going on here.

But his decision tonight, what he decides to do and make his case, if it's just an anti-Trump case, or go after his rivals directly will certainly be an indication of things.

But all eyes are on the health of his campaign. He is focusing only on New Hampshire. But, again, he's the most practiced candidate of all of them. Of course, he ran eight years ago, so he's very happy to be here. We will see what type of fire he has, or if he is trying to help perhaps Nikki Haley, who he would prefer most likely as an alternative.

BOLDUAN: Happy to be here. Good mantra for life, in politics or outside of politics. Good to see you Jeff. Thank you. Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Let us discuss all of this now -- thank you, Jeff Zeleny -- with CNN Political Director David Chalian.

David, I want to start with something because everyone is talking about these comments that Donald Trump made. He made these dictator comments late last night, but it wasn't set in a vacuum. I just want to show people and remind people some of his past comments. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When I get back into the Oval Office, I will totally obliterate the deep state. They will be obliterated.

First, I will immediately reissue my 2020 executive order restoring the president's authority to remove rogue bureaucrats, and I will wield that power very aggressively.

[10:10:11]

They have done something that allows the next party. I mean, if somebody -- if I happen to be president and I see somebody who's doing well and beating me very badly, I say, go down and indict them.

I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the United States of America. I will totally obliterate the deep state. And we know who they are. I know who exactly who they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: David, he's been sending these messages. Shouldn't we believe him?

CHALIAN: Of course we should believe him. If there's anything we've learned about Donald Trump on the political stage, Sara, is to very much believe him.

Listen, he has said he would like to suspend the Constitution. This is all as a candidate this cycle. He has suggested that the execution of a military general who doesn't agree with him may be an appropriate response. And we are clearly seeing a refusal to rule out the notion that he would use the office -- misuse the office, abuse the power of the office. He just simply refused to rule that out as an option last night, never mind proudly wearing the label of dictator for a day on some issues.

So, it's all there for everyone to see. This doesn't need histrionics attached to it that Donald Trump is saying quite plainly what he intends to do.

SIDNER: I want to turn now, partly because of that, to the debate that is going to happen. Four candidates made the cut this time, Christie, Ramaswamy, Haley and DeSantis. This is really their chance to try to unseat, if you will, the frontrunner who is Donald Trump. And after these comments, are we finally going to see them come for Donald Trump and try to knock him off that number one place?

CHALIAN: It's such a good question, Sara. I look forward to watching the debate to see the answer to it. Obviously, we know Chris Christie is one person on the stage who has made sort of these frontal attacks to Donald Trump, the centerpiece of his campaign.

We've seen DeSantis and Haley sort of take on Trump at times or express differences with Trump over specific policy areas, but we've never seen either one of them just do a full frontal assault as to why they think he's unacceptable as a nominee.

And that is because you see in the polling the Republican primary electorate, Sara, is not all that interested in hearing those kinds of attacks on Donald Trump. Obviously, he's the dominant frontrunner in the race, but even if you talk to Republican primary voters in these surveys that we see that are not supportive of Trump, they too don't want to hear from the candidates not named Trump all this sort of attack on Donald Trump.

But as Chris Christie says, how do you defeat someone without going after them and explaining why they're unacceptable and you are the better choice, and that's sort of the mission for DeSantis and Haley tonight.

As you noted, it's the last scheduled debate at this point before voters vote. We'll see if more debates get added. But right now, this is the last big opportunity on the calendar.

SIDNER: Yes, it certainly is. And now they have some fodder. I mean, dictator for a day is not something you want to hear from the president of the United States.

David Chalian, thank you so much for all your analysis. John?

BERMAN: A Florida suspect is in custody after police say this person went on a killing spree in Texas, six people now dead.

Extraordinary new audio from former Israeli hostages held by Hamas, their rage at the Netanyahu government and new reporting on when the U.S. thinks the Israeli offensive might end.

And a retreat from a U.S. member of Congress after what she said or didn't say about sexual violence committed by Hamas.

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BERMAN: All right. We are going to the Department of Justice right now for this announcement of extraordinary action against Russian soldiers for human rights violations.

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Also here are Eli Rosenbaum, the head of the department's War Crimes Accountability Team, Christian Levesque, lead prosecutor for the War Crimes Accountability Team, and David Sundberg, assistant director in charge of the FBI Washington Field Office.

On February 24th, 2022, Russia commenced its full-scale, unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. In the nearly two years since, we have all seen invading Russian forces commit atrocities on the largest scale in any European armed conflict since the Second World War.

We have all heard the accounts of Ukrainian civilians targeted and executed, Ukrainian children forcibly deported and Ukrainian women and girls sexually assaulted. And as the world has witnessed the horrors of Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine, so has the United States Department of Justice.

That is why the Justice Department has filed the first-ever charges under the U.S. War Crime Statute against four Russia-affiliated military personnel for heinous crimes against an American citizen.

Congress passed the U.S. War Crime Statute nearly 30 years ago to give us jurisdiction to prosecute war crimes committed against American citizens abroad. In an indictment return yesterday in the Eastern District of Virginia, we have charged four Russia-affiliated military personnel with war crimes against an American citizen living in Ukraine.

The charges include conspiracy to commit war crimes, including war crimes outlawed by the international community after World War II, unlawful confinement, torture, and inhuman treatment. Like all defendants in the U.S. criminal justice system, the defendants in this case are entitled to due process of law and are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

We alleged that in April of 2022, two commanding officers of Russia- affiliated forces, Suren Seiranovich Mkrtchyan and Dmitry Budnik, as well as two lower-ranking soldiers whose first names are Valerii and Nazar, committed war crimes against an American citizen who had been living in Russia since 2021.

The victim was living in Milove, a small village in Southern Ukraine, and was not participating in the armed conflict between Russia and Ukraine. As such, the victim was what is known as a protected person under international law.

After Russian forces invaded Milove, the victim was abducted from his home by three of the defendants. Mkrtchyan was one of the commanding officers and Valerii and Nazar, the lower-ranking soldiers, and their co-conspirators.

During the abduction, we alleged that those defendants threw the victim to the ground while he was naked, tied his hands behind his back, pointed a gun at his head and beat him with their feet, their fists and the stocks of their guns.

We alleged that they forced him into a building that Russia-affiliated forces were using as a jail and into a closet that they were using as a jail cell. We alleged that as they interrogated him, they tortured him. They beat him again with a gun. They punched him in his chest and stomach. They threatened to shoot him. They stripped off his clothes and took pictures. One of their conspirators threatened to sexually assault him.

And during the interrogation, when the victim's answers did not satisfy the defendants, we alleged that Budnik, who was also a commanding officer, threatened the victim with death and asked for his last words.

[10:20:07]

We alleged that Nazar and other conspirators then took the victim outside. There, they forced him to the ground, put a gun to the back of his head. The victim believed he was about to be killed. They moved the gun just before pulling the trigger, and the bullet went just past his head.

After the mock execution, the victim was beaten and interrogated again. At one point, he was told through an interpreter that he was, quote, going to sleep. And he was told by Mkrtchyan, quote, good night, leading the victim to believe again that he was about to be killed.

During his ten days detained by Russia-affiliated forces, the victim in this case was tortured, threatened with sexual assault and execution, forced to perform manual labor, and beaten in the head, chest and stomach with the soldier's feet, their fists and their guns. Again and again, he believed he was going to die. These charges against four Russia-affiliated military personnel are the Justice Department's first criminal charges under the U.S. War Crime Statute. They are also an important step toward accountability for the Russian regime's illegal war in Ukraine. Our work is far from done.

I want to recognize the criminal divisions, including the Human Rights and Special Prosecution Section and the War Crimes Accountability Team, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Virginia, the FBI, and the Department of Homeland Security, including Homeland Security Investigations. Their diligent and skillful work is what made these historic charges possible.

I also want to recognize the incredible courage of our partners in Ukraine, specifically our counterparts in the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office. In the midst of war, Ukrainian prosecutors and investigators have risked their lives to pursue justice for the Ukrainian people. We are honored to stand alongside them.

Finally, I want to recognize our partners in the international community. We will continue to work closely alongside them to gather evidence and build cases so that when the time comes, the United States and our partners will be ready to ensure accountability for Russia's war of aggression.

This is a historic day for the Justice Department that builds on a long history. The War Crimes Accountability team prosecuting this case is modeled in part on the Justice Department's decades-long effort to identify, denaturalize and deport Nazi war criminals in the United States.

During that effort, the department's Office of Special Investigations brought more than 130 cases against perpetrators of Nazi crimes. In the vast majority of those cases, the perpetrators were not identified until decades after they committed their horrific crimes.

This history should make clear that the Justice Department and the American people have a long memory. We will not forget the atrocities in Ukraine, and we will never stop working to bring those responsible to justice.

Throughout our work, we will continue to put our trust in the rule of law. The rule of law is the best answer we have to crimes that cannot be truly answered. The rule of law is how we pursue true accountability for the individuals responsible for those crimes and how we deter future aggression. And the rule of law is how we pursue justice in a way that protects people and protects our shared humanity.

I'm now honored to turn the podium over to Secretary Mayorkas.

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Thank you very much, Attorney General Garland.

In 2008, the Department of Homeland Security and its Homeland Security Investigations, or HSI, created the Human Rights Violators and War Crimes Center, the only U.S. government entity focused entirely on investigating these global atrocities.

For 15 years, this select group of special agents, attorneys, intelligence analysts, criminal research specialists and historians from across the federal government have worked together and with their international counterparts to hold those who engage in the perpetration of war crimes, genocide, torture and other human rights violations accountable.

Today, an investigation more than a year in the making by this center and its federal partners bears fruit. For the first time in our nation's history, federal agents gathered sufficient evidence to bring charges of war crimes perpetrated against an American citizen in violation of Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 2441.

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The allegations which the attorney general has described detail gruesome events.

The agents who made this case possible were tireless in their investigation, giving extraordinary attention to every detail and making considerable sacrifices throughout. In August 2022, these HSI agents traveled with their DOJ and FBI partners to speak with an American citizen who had recently been evacuated from Ukraine, where he had been living with his wife.

The U.S. citizen told our HSI agents how, a few months earlier, he had been violently abducted from his home in the village of Milove by members of the Russian armed forces. He told HSI investigators, as the attorney general noted, that these Russians had stripped him naked, threw him face down to the ground, tied his hands behind his back, pointed a gun at his head, and severely beat him, including with the stocks of their guns.

The Russian soldiers then took him to a nearby Russian military compound and held him there illegally for ten days. He reported that while in forced captivity, he was subjected to two interrogation sessions during which he was tortured by the four defendants named today.

He reported that the Russian defendants had again stripped him naked, photographed him and severely beat him about the chest and stomach. One defendant staged a mock execution of him. After asking for the victim's last words, one of the defendants named today forced the victim to the ground --

SIDNER: -- Homeland Secretary Mayorkas. You also heard from Attorney General Merrick Garland on these really disturbing details of mock executions, an American citizen being beaten over and over again over ten days who thought he was going to die. There are now four Russian soldiers who have been accused and charged with war crimes.

This is something that they have not done before this moment because they are using a brand new law. Although it is decades old, they're using this law for the first time against these four Russian soldiers. BERMAN: Yes. Let's talk more about that. CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid is here. This is a first of its kind, I call it a prosecution, but there aren't defendants here yet, so to speak, Paula.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're listed on an indictment, so it's fair to call them a defendant, so it's unclear if they'll ever see the inside of a courtroom here in the U.S. But this is an extraordinary announcement here by the attorney general, the Justice Department charging four Russian soldiers with war crimes against an American during the invasion of Ukraine.

And as you noted, this is historic because this is the first time the U.S. government has used a decades-old law to prosecute those who have committed war crimes against an American.

Now, this indictment was just returned yesterday and it alleges that an unnamed American was violently abducted from his home in Ukraine. Soldiers allegedly beat and tortured him in a Russian military compound where he was held for ten days in April 2022. Now, the indictment alleges he was tortured during two different interrogations, that he was stripped, beaten and photographed.

Now, two of the defendants are commanding officers, according to the Justice Department, the other two are more lower ranking. And they face three counts, one count of conspiracy to commit war crimes, one of unlawful confinement of a protected person. And that's notable because this individual, this American, is considered a protected person because he was not fighting and, therefore, he is protected under the Geneva Convention. The third count is torture.

Now, it is expected that the attorney general and other officials there will take some questions and I think one of the first questions they're going to get is what happens next. There is likely no expectation that these individuals will be extradited so they will likely face some questions about what will happen next in this case.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And, Paula, the fact not to be forgotten here is just the horrific details laid out in what Mayor Garland was saying as well as the Homeland Security secretary.

REID: Absolutely. Let's get into some of those details from the indictment. It alleges that during this Americans time in captivity, Russian soldiers allegedly threatened to kill the Americans at time, pointing guns to his head and a knife to his throat.

Now, he was also put through what is described as a mock execution, forcing him to the ground, putting a gun to the back of his head and then shooting a bullet just past his head.

Now, the indictment also says the American was threatened with sexual assault.

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And after his answers to questions he was getting from his captors failed to satisfy them, they threatened him with a death and asked for his last words.