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Interview With Mark Regev, Senior Advisor To Israeli Prime Minister Benjmain Netanyahu; Coast Guard Issues Scathing Internal Review After CNN Investigation; Border Patrol Agent Saves Migrant From Drowning In Rio Grande; Source: Border Apprehensions Surpassed 10K Tuesday; Iconic TV Producer & Writer Norman Lear Dies At Age 101. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired December 06, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
MARK REGEV, SENIOR ADVISOR TO ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Because Hamas represents a sort of barbarism, this extremism, this terrorism.
And they might have attacked Israel on October 7th, but that sort of extremism can attack Europe and can reach America.
It is important that we win here, not just for Israel, but for the whole free world. We have to show that this sort of barbarism is destroyed. We have to nip it in the bud, so to speak.
We cannot allow them to have a victory. And Israel's victory will be America's victory, too.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: There are, of course, some Americans who are questioning how Israel is executing its war in Gaza.
The IDF says that the ratio of two civilian deaths for every Hamas militant, which is the math that Israel is looking at, is, quote, "tremendously positive," given the challenges of urban terrain and combat.
One Democratic lawmaker, Seth Moulton, who is himself a combat veteran of the post-9/11 wars, he deployed multiple times, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SETH MOULTON (R-MA): No, I think it is dead wrong. I mean, by that number, Israel, so far, killed about 5,000 Hamas terrorists. But in the process, they have recruited about 100,000 new adherents. This is really bad news for Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Mark, he's referring, of course, to the Stanley McChrystal theory that, for every civilian you kill, you recruit 10 new insurgents.
As Israel is eradicating Hamas, how do you plan to deal with insurgents the war will inevitably create?
REGEV: We think, when this is over -- and we are already seeing signs now -- that Hamas' path of extremism, Hamas' path of terrorism, Hamas' path of brutality is being discredited.
Because the people of Gaza are not stupid and they can see where the path of Hamas has brought them. And they know who started this war and they know who ended the ceasefire by refusing to release more hostages.
We are already hearing -- it is now in a small level but it will grow to a crescendo as the people of Gaza, have come out strongly against what Hamas has brought upon them.
And on that basis, I think we can build a future with Gaza when this is over, a post-Hamas Gaza, which will be demilitarized and, just as important, deradicalized.
And I think in that aim for a demilitarized and radicalized Gaza, we will have many partners also in the Arab world, who want to see a better future for the people of Gaza.
KEILAR: Mark, you think, if an Israeli missile killed someone's sibling or child, or parent, they will blame Hamas instead of Israel?
REGEV: You have seen other examples, like at the end of the Second World War -- I mean, I don't make a comparison -- but it is interesting to think about.
At the end of the Second World War, Berlin was destroyed. Germans blamed Hitler, who brought the destruction upon them. And it could well be the same in Gaza.
I mean, Gazans can see what Hamas has done to them. Hamas can see that the leaders are underground while they are above ground trying to find a safe place.
Hamas can see how Hamas treats citizens while Israel is putting them into safe havens and safer zones where they will be out of harm's way, while Hamas uses Gaza civilians as human shields, wanting them to die on the altar of their crazy, radical, extreme agenda.
As I say, the people of Gaza -- and we're already seeing signs of this, and I'm sure it's going to grow.
And when Hamas is finally out of power and they don't have the power of an autocratic regime that they've had until now where they can roll through terror, when people of Gaza no longer have Hamas as their regime, governing them, you will see this outpouring of pent-up anger against the Hamas leadership.
KEILAR: You think you can superimpose this situation, post-World War II Germany. onto what you're seeing now? Are you using the way that multiple nations joined together to administer that territory afterward as a model?
How are you comparing these two things because they appear to be incredibly different?
REGEV: It was not my comparison. We had visiting here two weeks into the war, we had the German chancellor, Scholz. And he said, during his visit, Hamas are the new Nazis. And there's no doubt the way they behaved on October 7th, the massacres they committed.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I'm asking you about -- I'm asking you -- I think we are all very clear of the horrible things that happened on October 7th.
But I'm talking about the administration of the situation in Gaza following this. That's what we were talking about. We were talking about after the war.
[14:35:03]
REGEV: Correct. So we don't want to have a situation where Israel rules the Gaza Strip. We don't want to govern the people of Gaza. We prefer they govern themselves.
It is clear, for the immediate postwar period, we will have to have overriding security control to make sure there is not a resurgence in terrorism.
We think with the help of the international community and important countries in the Arab world, we will have partners in an effort to find a new Gaza, a Gaza committed to the wellbeing of the people who live there.
Ultimately, Brianna, Gaza has been ruled for 16 years by Hamas, 16 years. And what have they bought the people of Gaza? Hardship, misery, bloodshed and poverty. The people of Gaza deserve better.
KEILAR: And but, Mark, what --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: What they're going through is nothing compared to what they're going through right now. So what do you say to a Seth Moulton, who says that number will be very bad for Israel, the number of civilians killed.
He is saying that - that's someone who has seen what happens when civilians are killed. He is saying that number is going to be very bad for Israel. It is not going to be bad for Hamas and good for Israel.
What do you say to him about that number?
REGEV: I would say we are trying -- as a Democratic country, we're trying to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. We really are. That's why we have been urging Gazan civilians to move out of areas where we --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Mark, the numbers don't reflect that.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I mean, the numbers of deaths just don't reflect what you are saying.
REGEV: So I would like to have a one-on-one with the congressman because we don't have to agree about everything. Surely, when we look at the numbers, right, I am convinced that when this is over, the civilian-to-combat ratio for fatalities will compare very well with America's own operations when you had to fight against ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
It is difficult fighting in a built-up urban area. It's not easy. And it's made more difficult by the fact that Hamas deliberately embeds itself under civilian neighborhoods, under schools, under hospitals, deliberately abusing the civilian population of Gaza as a human shield for its war machine.
But we are trying --
(CROSSTALK)
REGEV: -- to be as surgical as is possible in a very difficult combat situation.
KEILAR: I think we will continue to talk about this. You look at the Afghanistan numbers and they pale in comparison. And those are numbers Americans are familiar with. I mean, we're arguing degrees here.
The American military, of course, took a lot of criticism for those numbers. And frankly, the numbers in Gaza make those pale in comparison.
Mark, we will continue the conversation. We appreciate your time. Thank you for being with us.
REGEV: Thank you for having me.
And when this is over, I really believe the people of Gaza will get a better government that will look after their interests. And Israelis won't have to live with the threat of terrorists cross the frontier in the middle of the night and butchering their children.
And that will be better for both sides, Israelis and Palestinians.
KEILAR: All right, Mark, thank you so much.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:42:34]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: New just into CNN, the Coast Guard just released a rare report highly critical of its own internal behavior, saying it, quote, "failed to keep our people safe."
It's a direct result of CNN's investigation that revealed Coast Guard leaders covered up damning information about sexual assaults and other misconduct for years.
CNN chief investigative correspondent, Pamela Brown, joins us with more on this.
So, Pamela, what have we Learned?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Boris, this report is unbelievably direct about the problems in the Coast Guard.
For months, CNN has been covering a culture in the Coast Guard that goes back decades of sexual assaults that were ignored and victims told to keep quiet, survivors sometimes punished while their perpetrators were never brought to justice.
The head of the Coast Guard, as a result of our reporting, launched a 90-day review, interviewing hundreds of current Coast Guard members, sifting through data.
And the resounding message is this, quote, "These failures and lack of accountability are entirely unacceptable. The Coast Guard must do something about it.
"The report shows the Coast Guard failed to live up to its core values by lacking the programs to prevent military sexual trauma and improperly supporting the victims in the aftermath."
And that too many Coast Guard members are not experiencing the safe and empowering workplace they expect and deserve.
In fact, less than half of the women surveyed felt that they would be treated with dignity or respect if they were assaulted.
Now one thing that is repeatedly noted in this report is the loss of trust in the Coast Guard by its members.
And while the Coast Guard did take a look back at the history, this is a forward-looking report, what they call a road map into improving the Coast Guard's culture.
Some of those sweeping reforms in this latest report include new training for everyone from recruits to senior executives on sexual assault prevention, response and recovery.
Creating a so-called safety report policy where victims are not worried about being penalized for minor misconduct, like using alcohol at the time of the incident.
Improving oversight of the Coast Guard Academy and its cadets and developing policies to hold people accountable, including Coast Guard members heading for retirement.
It is worth noting, Boris, they found multiple cases where people accused of wrongdoing were allowed to retire with their full benefits.
SANCHEZ: Wow. This is really impactful reporting,
Pamela Brown, thanks so much for the work.
BROWN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.
Brianna?
KEILAR: There is some new video out there that shows the moment that a U.S. Border Patrol agent rescued a migrant from the Rio Grande on Friday. You can see him struggling to stay afloat as the agent goes into the river to save. Thankfully, he was OK.
[14:45:05]
The Border Patrol's Del Rio Sector says it arrested more than 8,000 migrants over the past three days.
CNN's Rosa Flores joining us from a border town in south Texas.
Rosa, we understand you and your team have witnessed some troubling scenes. Tell us what you are seeing.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, this part of the Rio Grande is one of the deadliest parts for migrants. And this is according to a medical examiner that services about 10 counties along the border.
Let me start with a big picture of the U.S. southern border because the federal government is dealing with two epicenters on the southern border right now.
One here in Eagle Pass, Texas, where I am, in the Del Rios Sector, and also in Lukeville, Arizona, part of the Tucson Sector.
These two areas have been receiving thousands of migrants entering every single day. That has prompted the federal government to close two international crossings between the U.S. and Mexico.
What they are doing is redirecting those employees at the ports of entry to process migrants at processing facilities.
Let me set up the scene where I am because this is Eagle Pass, Texas.
What you see behind me is an international bridge that crosses into Mexico. If you look below that bridge, you can see there are probably hundreds of migrants out here right now.
These individuals have entered the country illegally. And now they are waiting to be transported to processing facilities. You see there are buses. That's what we have been seeing all day long.
These migrants wait out probably for a few hours. According to a law enforcement source, the top nationalities are Venezuelan and Honduran.
And according to the source, in the past three days, more than 8,000 migrants have entered this part of the U.S./Mexico border illegally. That is 3,000 on Sunday and about 5,000 in the past two days.
I want to take you to Lukeville, Arizona, because the scene is very similar. There are hundreds of migrants waiting outside by a border wall to be transported to processing facilities.
Now, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the challenge that agents have in that part of the U.S. southern border is that the cartels and the smugglers are dropping off very large groups of migrants in the Arizona desert, a very rugged and desolate area.
It forces U.S. Border Patrol agents to then respond to these areas, sometimes in ATVs, to try to transfer these migrants to processing facilities.
That is a huge headache and is a transportation nightmare for the federal government. They're trying to figure out ways to make transportations quickly.
Now, Brianna, to the point of how the U.S. federal government is dealing with this crisis right now, not only are they redirecting personnel, like I mentioned earlier, but they are also using enhanced expedited removal, a fancy word for saying swift deportations.
What happens -- this is part of their strategy right now. The U.S. federal government is having asylum officers make determinations on migrant relief, immigration relief in the United States while they are in custody.
If the migrant does not have a legal basis to stay in the United States, these individuals are being deported very quickly.
So, again, back to where I am here, Brianna, in Eagle Pass, Texas, I can tell you the part of the river you see behind me -- you don't see it because there's some border barrier. This is very dangerous.
We've covered this area for a long time. And I can tell you that not only are adults dying as they are crossing the river, there's an increasing number of children who are also dying, according to the medical examiner that services this area -- Brianna?
KEILAR: You can see in this video how close this came to tragedy. Just a couple more breaths without assistance to grab this man and it could've been a very different story.
Rosa, thank you so much for giving us an update on the border. We do appreciate it.
Coming up, legendary television producer, Norman Lear, has died. We have a look back at his life and influential career that spanned decades.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:53:48]
SANCHEZ: Norman Lear, the iconic producer and writer for the big and small screen has passed away. He was 101 years old.
Lear dominated '70s culture with sitcoms, including "All in the Family," "The Jeffersons," and "Maud." So many people may know his name and his shows, but they may not realize just how revolutionary he was.
Let's bring in CNN correspondent, Elizabeth Wagmeister.
Elizabeth, what was so special about the stories that Lear told and the way he chose to tell them?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is really a huge loss. What an incredible life, Boris.
What made the stories so special that Norman Lear told is he was really the first to bring social commentary into comedy at a time when nobody was touching topics like racism, feminism, and abortion and rape.
He was doing that in the '70s and he was dominating ratings.
Today, we have seen an outpouring of support from the biggest names in Hollywood, from Tyler Perry to George Clooney, who were all saying, at 101 years old, that this is the life loss too soon because of the great impact that he made.
[14:55:01]
And Norman Lear himself, in his 2014 memoir, even said that his goal, of course, was to bring those big laughs to audiences. But he knew that the best way to do that was, if they really cared, if they cared, they would laugh more, they would cry more.
And I believe we have some tape of him speaking about his relationship with the audience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORMAN LEAR, TV PRODUCER & WRITER: I spent most of my life with 300 people in a theater with four, five, six cameras and some wonderful performers.
And why should an audience guffaw, a belly laugh? It really happened when I think to myself that had seconds, minutes, weeks. Who knows?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WAGMEISTER: You know, even recently, Norman Lear was back, continuing to greet on ABC. He has his live in front of a studio audience, which was a re- creation of all of his classic shows with some of the original cast members but also some of the biggest A listers.
He really continued to do this up until he was 100 years old.
SANCHEZ: Yes, he was a legend of television and changed the national discourse.
Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much.
Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just moments.
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