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Presidents Under Fire Over Testimony on Antisemitism; Following Terrible Antisemitic Remarks, UPENN Board of Trustees Called an Emergency Meeting; U.S. Presidential Election 2024; CNN Poll: 37% Approve of Biden's Job Performance; Interview with Democratic Governors Association Chair Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN); CNN Poll: Biden's Popularity Declines in Light of Economic Worries; Gunman Applied for a Position at UNLV But Was Not Hired, According to Sources; Interview with Retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent and Brunner Sierra Group LLC President Daniel Brunner; Proposal to Oust Democratic Rep. Jamaal Bowman for Fire Alarm Incident Up for Vote in the House. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired December 07, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Now, they are all facing calls for them to resign.

CNN's Athena Jones is joining us now. Have the presidents yet responded to backlash that has come from so many different quarters?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, two out of the three presidents have responded, as you said, to backlash coming from all quarters. From alumni, from donors, from current students, political leaders on both sides of the aisle, including Pennsylvania's Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro. CEO of Pfizer Albert Bourla called it, one of the most despicable moments in the history of U.S. academia. But listen to this from White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Calls for genocide are unacceptable. It's vile. And it -- it's counter to everything this country stands for. I can't believe I even have to say that. I can't believe I even have to say that. I shouldn't have to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: And many people echoing that sentiment. And so now, two of the three presidents have come forward. The president of University of Pennsylvania, Liz Magill, put out a video on Twitter. Harvard's president, Claudine Gay, put out a statement. MIT's president has not yet responded.

But take a listen -- take a look at what they had to say in brief. Let me be clear, calls for violence are vile, that coming from Claudine Gay at Harvard. We are combating such hate with immediate and comprehensive action, said Liz Magill from University of Pennsylvania. She also said that the school's policies need to be re-evaluated and reviewed.

What this really came down to was a fight over speech and whether speech alone is or should be punishable. And these three presidents declining to directly answer whether calls for genocide against Jews would amount to bullying or harassment. Under the university's codes of conduct angered a lot of people. They thought this should be an easy answer. They instead wanted to focus a good deal on free speech, and the constitution, and these First Amendment issues that have certainly been riling college campuses for several years now.

But that is not what people wanted to hear. They said they missed the moment here and they needed to have a definitive response to this, this question about whether genocide is bullying or harassment.

SIDNER: And that is the issue, is free speech. When it injures you, when it makes you afraid when it puts you in a position of having to defend yourself, that can be a major problem. And these students, some of the Jewish students on campuses are facing this right now.

JONES: Right, and they're in fear. They're living in fear.

SIDNER: They're in fear.

All right. We have some new news that is coming up now that we're just getting in. The Penn board of trustees, we just got this as you were talking is holding an emergency meeting after that testimony. So, you just said that there was some response from the president. Now, there is a meeting that is happening right now after this testimony. And I can imagine this -- all that we have been discussing here will be talked about in that meeting.

JONES: Absolutely. In fact, the governor, Josh Shapiro, called on the board of trustees to have a meeting to discuss whether or not this is a good fit. Whether Liz Magill should remain in her place, and so did another private equity billionaire --

SIDNER: Right.

JONES: -- to talk -- hearing from trustees saying that there's a lot of concern here.

SIDNER: Yes, one who donates a lot of money to Harvard in particular. Athena Jones, thank you so much for all your reporting.

I'm going to go now to Matt Egan, who grabbed this news for us as we were talking, that the University of Pennsylvania board of trustees is now going to hold an emergency meeting. Matt, what do you know?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMY REPORTER: Yes, Sara. This is a hastily arranged meeting. I'm told it really was just arranged. It began at 9:00 a.m. and it was being -- it's being held virtually. Again, this is the board of trustees. And the timing here obviously is crucial because it comes just days after what can only be described as a disastrous hearing for the college presidents, including the University of Pennsylvania's president, Liz Magill. And we have heard these series of calls for the board to consider either removing Magill or asking for her resignation. We've heard these calls from, yes, the governor of Pennsylvania, but also from business leaders. We've heard from Mark Rowan, who has been very outspoken on this issue. He's asked the board to take action here. We've also heard from other business leaders.

So, I think, Sara, this is a clear sign that there is some intense pressure on the University of Pennsylvania's president, but really all university presidents right now.

SIDNER: Absolutely. And I just want to reiterate what we're just hearing, Matt Egan, from your reporting that the University of Pennsylvania board of trustees is holding an emergency meeting after what most people who watched that saw as a disastrous testimony on dealing with antisemitism on campus. Thank you so much for reporting. I appreciate it, Matt.

John.

Oh. Well, it's me, apparently. So, you know, as we go further here, we are going to delve into what happens in that board meeting.

And we are going to delve into what is happening with Donald Trump, who is at the court, facing his case against him by Letitia James for that $250 million lawsuit against him and his businesses. We'll be right back.

[10:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: All right. In a brand-new CNN poll finds that President Biden, who began the year with a 45 percent approval rating is now, which is 37 percent, 63 percent disapproved. Those are his worst numbers since taking office.

[10:40:00]

Joining us now, Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota, fresh off being elected the chair of the Democratic Governors Association.

Congratulations to you, Governor. A 37 percent approval rating for the Democratic President. How much of a drag is that on Democrats trying to get elected, Governor?

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), CHAIR, DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION: Well, good morning, John. Thanks for having me. Look, anything associated with Washington, I spent 12 years there in Congress, you get associated with the dysfunction, especially the House Republicans. And I think for us, as governors, you see us enacting Joe Biden's agenda all across the country. And Democratic governors have, you know, 20- point approval ratings above and beyond anybody else.

And so, I think we look at this, look, it's going to be a binary choice next year. It's going to be either the guy who's in court today or one of the folks who were weirdly on that stage last night versus a guy who's delivering. So, I don't worry that much about it. We -- I've lived this my life. Polls come and go. But what matters is, is are you affecting positively the people across the country? So, I think by the time we get to next November, they'll know what that choice is.

BERMAN: I'm sure you could already get your phone calls answered at the White House, but now that you're chair of the DGA, you really can get your phone calls answered. So, if you were to call the Oval Office and say to President Biden, look, here's the one thing I think you could do to turn those poll numbers around, what would it be?

WALZ: Well, the -- far be it from me to be giving advice out there. What I would tell him is, is be proud of what you're seeing out here. Governors certainly are across the country, whether it's Jay Inslee in Washington moving a climate agenda, or Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan strengthening the auto workers and building the middle class.

And I think the biggest thing is just tell the story. This dysfunction in Washington obviously always gets attached to the President. But I served under three Presidents on the Transportation Committee, waiting every week for Infrastructure Week. Joe Biden delivered it. We're cutting ribbons across this state, rebuilding roads, bridges, water treatment plants. I think just run on the record. He's got a record to be proud of, and we need to get out and make that message clear.

BERMAN: No question. The projects are being built, the unemployment rate is still low, the country has not gone into a recession that many people predicted, there is still economic growth. And yet, and yet in this latest CNN poll, only 29 percent of people polled would rate the country's economic conditions as good. 71 percent said poor. How do you explain that disconnect?

WALZ: Yes. Well, I think some of it is we've polarized our, you know, perceptions about everything. And inflation was real. It's global. I just came back from a trade mission to Australia where the Australians would gladly trade for our economy, and this is true across the world. But people did see prices rise and they don't necessarily decline. You don't see deflation. So, I think that's a part of it.

And I think a lot of times the data, whether real wages are up, which they are, it's hard to see that immediately. But it will become clear. I think folks recognize the high unemployment rates, the inability to deal with the COVID pandemic that we saw under the previous president. We're not going back to that.

So, I think it's just more messaging. I think there's a drumbeat. I see it here. We have positive economic news. We see a Mayo Clinic invest $5 billion and Republicans try and find a reason that that's a bad thing. So, I just think this is the nature that we're in.

We're going again, as I say this, it is not going to be an imaginary. You know, it could be better, or we could have this special candidate who would do it. It is going to be Donald Trump and the dysfunction and the things that they did versus Joe Biden's positive vision to help the middle class. So, I'm confident it'll get there. It's not that unusual. BERMAN: You say it's going to be Donald Trump. Did you watch the Republican presidential debate last night?

WALZ: I watched parts of it. I will say it was painful. I -- it's bizarre of where they're going. There is no vision for America. But look, it is going to be Donald Trump. The mega folks have a stranglehold on the Republican Party. Nobody has the courage to say anything. And, the lesson of Kevin McCarthy is where you'll end up with that. Have the courage to stand up and defend the democracy.

BERMAN: You called, just now, it bizarre. I saw a quote in "Politico." You did an interview in "Politico" after being elected chair of the DGA. And you said, basically, there's no such thing as a generic Republican. These guys are weird. Once they start running --

WALZ: Yes.

BERMAN: -- their weirdness shows up. What did you mean? What --

WALZ: Yes, I'll stand by that.

BERMAN: -- weird how?

WALZ: Well, look, just the strange things, they become obsessed with, demonizing our children, becoming obsessed with people's personal lives in their bedrooms, restricting freedoms. I'm surrounded by states who are spending their time figuring out how to ban "Charlotte's Web" in their schools while we're banishing hunger from ours with free breakfast and lunch.

That's what the public's looking for. That's what they're trying to get to. And they will weirdly obsess with everything to be mean and cruel and small in their ideas. And I didn't hear anything last night that did anything different to that. So, I'll stand by that. I just think Americans know this is just weird stuff to be focused on. And many of the times, it's just projection. We hear these stories every time. They want to project morality to us. And I say as your elected leaders, you don't need to hear a sermon from us, but you expect us to try and live one.

[10:45:00]

And I think whether it's making sure the middle class has what they need, protecting reproductive rights, truly addressing climate change. Governors are doing that across the country. They're popular with that. And I think we understand we'll be able to do that because of Joe Biden's policies. Whether it's the Infrastructure Act, CHIPS Act, bringing manufacturing back to America, those are things people want to hear about. Not demonizing some child because of who they are. At the end of the day, Americans are better than that.

BERMAN: Governor Tim Walz, again, congratulations for your elected chair of the DGA. We appreciate you being with us.

WALZ: Thanks so much.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: That was interesting.

Coming up for us, the House is voting on whether to censure Democratic Congressman Jamaal Bowman for pulling a false fire alarm. We're going to take you live to Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

BOLDUAN: So, police are learning more about a potential motive in yesterday's mass shooting on the campus of University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Multiple sources are telling CNN that investigators are looking into the possibility that the shooter was passed over for a job at UNLV.

Sources tell CNN, the suspect has been identified as a six -- as a 60 plus year old career college professor. He opened fire at the university's business school. That's how this all started playing out. Now, three people were murdered. One of them still in the hospital, recovering from injuries. The gunman also died in a confrontation with police.

Joining me now as the investigation is clearly far from over is retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent Daniel Brunner. Thanks for coming back in. Such sadness what happened on UNLV last night, and just the terror that took over that campus. The suspect's dead. They have his identity. The possible motive here. And what you're -- and what is being told to CNN. You hear that, that he was passed over for a job, and you think, what about this profile of this suspect?

DANIEL BRUNNER RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT AND PRESIDENT, BRUNNER SIERRA GROUP LLC: Good morning, Kate, and thanks for having me. The FBI, along with all the Las Vegas law enforcement, UNLV police, Las Vegas Metro and Clark County sheriffs are all going to work this together because, obviously, he had experience and he was working in Georgia and East Carolina University.

So, all of those locations they're going to be looking at to determine what was in his mind. What was the motivations for this? So, the investigation is going to take multiple aspects, multiple areas. They're going to look at everything. They're going to interview all of this -- all the persons that he talked to within the last one, two years to determine was their signs? Where their red flags? Whether this -- you know, why he was not accepted to work there at the university at UNLV.

Determine -- they're going to look at all his electronic devices, his phones, his laptops. Try and get into his mind the days before, the hours before and see if there was some sort of motivation to this. And most importantly, to learn from this and to see if there were signs along the way. What could have been seen by certain people if there were red flags along the way, so that in the future, the FBI and other law enforcement agencies can work towards identifying these red flags in advance to prevent shootings like this. BOLDUAN: Yes. How far back? I mean, the facts are right now. The suspect is dead. But you're saying, especially in the final days, looking at kind of the profile, what he was doing online and in reality, if you will. But how far back do investigators need to look to try to learn from this?

BRUNNER: Investigators are going to look as far back as they need to. And they're going to look back and see if there were incidents five years, 10 years from now. There's going to be no rock that's going to be unturned. No lead that will not be looked at and determine and to create the case because there's two investigations really going on here.

The homicide at the -- the homicides that occurred yesterday at -- on campus will be investigated by Las Vegas Metro P.D. They'll be the lead agency, but the FBI will be assisting them. And they will be running a federal case as well. Working with the ATF to determine where the weapons were obtained? Where they were purchased as they continue to move forward.

If there is a federal case, the FBI will be in the best position to run the case with the Department of Justice. You -- Las Vegas Metro P.D. will be doing the best they can with all the assets that the FBI and federal agencies and all the other local agencies can provide to them to get into his mindset to determine where he was going, what his motivations were in advance of it.

I think that the response by the detectives that responded to the area were -- was outstanding. It was exactly what was supposed to happen. And getting them -- getting the shooter neutralized before any other students could be harmed.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Dan Bruner, thank you so much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thanks, Kate.

Breaking news for you this morning, the House is voting right now on a Republican-led resolution to censure New York Democratic Congressman Jamaal Bowman for triggering that fire alarm in a House office building when there wasn't an emergency. The Congressman did it while Congress was in session, voting on a spending bill in September to avoid a government shutdown.

[10:55:00]

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill with us with more. We are watching the vote happen right now behind me there. What do you know this morning?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY AND CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we expect Jamaal Bowman to be censured, mostly along party lines. Right now, it's 214 votes voting in the affirmative 191 voting against it. There are three Democrats who voted to censure him, as well as including some vulnerable members in some swing districts. We do exultantly expect the votes to be there.

Censuring members used to be a pretty rare thing, almost usually for the most egregious of offenses. But over the last two years, several members have been censured for an increasing number of different issues, including recently Rashida Tlaib over remarks that were considered antisemitic. She was censored by this Republic-controlled House. Now, Jamaal Bowman, after pleading guilty to willfully pulling a false fire alarm during the congressional session as they were considering a spending bill to keep the government open.

Jamaal Bowman that -- would plead guilty to that misdemeanor. He had initially, though, said that was all an accident. He walked out of a fire -- he thought it was a -- an exit and he was confused by the situation and didn't realize that he was pulling the fire alarm. That, though, was not flew in the face of what he pleaded ultimately guilty to.

But nevertheless, Republicans trying to make a point here moving forward to pass this resolution along party lines to censure him, and they're expecting to go to the well of the House to be formally admonish. Essentially a formal slap on the wrist for his actions here in a matter of minutes, guys.

SIDNER: Yes, and it looks like that is actually happening right now. The vote is over and it looks like it did pass. Thank you so much, Manu Raju. Appreciate all your reporting.

John.

BERMAN: Yes. Saw Congressman Bowman walking onto the well right now, perhaps to take his medicine.

In the meantime, Donald Trump sitting in a New York courtroom, listening to testimony in his weeks-long fraud trial. He is not testifying today, so why is he there?

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