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Israeli Troops Breach Hamas Defense Lines; University Presidents Under Fire; House Republicans Push Ahead With Biden Impeachment Probe; Trump Attends New York Civil Fraud Trial. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired December 07, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:01:07]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: So, right now, former President Trump is inside of a New York courthouse. And he is watching this $250 million civil fraud trial that is threatening his business empire.

Trump and his adult sons, along with other Trump Org executives, are accused of inflating financial statements to obtain favorable loans and insurance deals.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Now, Trump is set to take the witness stand next week as the final defense witness.

Let's take you live outside the courthouse with CNN's Kara Scannell.

So, Kara, we have seen the former president make multiple public statements opining on how the trial is going. How have things played out so far?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris and Brianna, so far, they have had their final expert witness testifying. This is an accounting professor from NYU.

And he has given the Trump side their strongest and clearest defense so far from an expert witness. What he is testifying to today is that he said he examined these financial statements that are at the heart of this case, the accusation that they inflated the value of properties on them, and then used that to get better terms on loans and insurance.

Well, he testified unequivocally that there is no evidence whatsoever of accounting fraud. He said: "My analysis shows the financial statements for all of the years were not materially misstated." And the judge intervened here and asked him: "Are you saying that the attorney general's complaint has no merit?" He said: "That is absolutely my opinion."

He went on to say that there are some errors in the report, in the financial statements, but he said that those are not necessarily fraud. And he said that that is common when there are these unaudited financial statements that are used by sophisticated lenders, so really giving the Trump side their strongest defense.

And we heard from the former president when he was leaving at one of the breaks and he praised that expert accountant. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a highly respected man. I don't know him. But he's an expert witness. And he found no fraud whatsoever. He found no accounting fraud whatsoever.

And like everyone else, he said, what are we doing here?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: Now, the judge has already found that the financial statements in this case are fraudulent and found that Trump has committed repeated and persistent fraud, but much of Trump's defense is also playing toward the appeals court, because they have acknowledged that they accept that the judge is probably going to rule against them in the civil fraud trial, but they are making their case and creating a record so it can be heard by an appeals court.

And, on that note, we did learn some news today. The appeals court in New York is agreeing to a continuous stay. That is, they're not going to allow the dissolution of Trump's businesses until this trial and the appeal is wrapped up. So that went in favor of Trump today.

Now, the attorney general's office doubling down on their statements, their commitment that Trump has committed fraud. In a response to Trump's comments, the New York attorney general, Letitia James, tweeted that they have already proven a massive scale of fraud that Trump has committed.

And this case, as you say, will continue with Trump being on the stand next week as the final witness in their defense -- Boris, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Kara Scannell live outside of the courthouse there, thank you for that report.

Let's talk more about this now with CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen.

All right, Norm, starting just with this expert testimony that you heard there, what is your analysis of how much weight this will have?

NORMAN EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, as we know, experts are sometimes available for hire.

Mr. Bartov is an academic who works in this field, but there's been substantial testimony that the financial statements are fraudulent. So to attempt it to justify them defies the witnesses who've testified they're fraudulent, the experts for the state, the judge's own finding, where he's already granted partial summary judgment of fraud, and, if I may say so, common sense.

[13:05:10]

How can you say that an apartment that is a little more than 10,000 square feet is 30,000 square feet? I don't care how many professors come in. Are they going to put a math professor on next to say that 30,000 and 10,000 are equal?

So I think the weight of the evidence is that there were material misstatements of not just the apartment, but 40 Wall Street, Seven Springs, Mar-a-Lago. This case is going to be lost by Donald Trump. The battle will be on appeal. And the reason Trump's in court today, the one-two punches, he's going to attempt to back up what Professor Bartov has said to create that appellate record.

SANCHEZ: Well, Trump actually said something about an appellate court decision that he claims Judge Engoron is ignoring. I think we might have that clip. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The judge, as you know, was rebuked, in that he was overturned by the Appellate Division of the New York State Supreme Court, which is a higher court, much higher court than where we are right now.

The judge refused to acknowledge it. This case would be over, because that was about 90 percent of the case, having to do with statute of limitations. This case should be over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Norm was shaking his head as that clip was playing.

EISEN: Look, Trump, he's been -- and his lawyers have been back and forth to the appellate courts over and over again since that decision statute of limitations came down.

If the appellate courts thought that they were being defied, they would have shut the case down. They have declined to do that. Trump is mixing apples and oranges. Yes, there was a statute of limitations issue. That pared the case back, as you know. Ivanka Trump, as a result, is out of the case.

But it doesn't invalidate the attorney general's entire case. As is so often with the former president, he is not exactly 100 percent candid and truthful in how he's describing legal events.

SANCHEZ: Seeing things perhaps the way that he wants to see them.

KEILAR: Exactly. Exactly there.

And so let's talk about the gag order that is in place here. I think it's really worth mentioning. So he cannot comment about the court staff. He got in trouble for that before. There are things he can still talk about, the judge, the A.G., witness testimony, a whole lot more.

What's interesting here is that it seems that, having been fined a couple times, he is now staying within these boundaries, because they have been enforced. And I wonder if you think that is going to be a road map for judges in other cases, specifically the federal election subversion case here in D.C.

EISEN: I do, Brianna.

We have followed together the vicissitudes of the state gag order and the federal gag order, on again, off again. The state courts -- and I think this is a preview of what's going to happen with the federal gag order here in D.C. for the coming March trial. The state courts have now turned that gag order back on.

And, today, Trump was brought to heel. He had a press availability before the court, no attacks on judicial staff. He had one after he appeared in court again, no attacks, and no attacks in court. So it shows that he can be controlled. He is a rational actor.

And will that hold? Will he make a strategic choice to politically inflame his base by violating the gag order and having some drama? He may do it. But if he does it, today's compliance shows that will be intentional. And these gag orders are consistent with the First Amendment, as the New York appellate courts that Mr. Trump celebrated have found now.

SANCHEZ: So, Norm, we got some breaking news moments before we went on the air about Trump's revived effort to dismiss the federal election subversion case.

Essentially, his team is appealing a decision that rejected his effort to dismiss the case on certain grounds. Walk us through what this means for the broader case.

EISEN: Unlike some of the arguments we just heard, this is not frivolous or made up. There's a serious legal question here, one that Trump has lost and that he probably will lose again on appeal.

This is something I worked on when I was in the White House Counsel's Office. Presidents cannot normally be the subject of legal proceedings. It's called presidential immunity. It typically applies in the civil case. Trump tried in his federal prosecution for alleged election overthrow here in D.C. to take that civil rule and apply it in a criminal case and say, hey, Jack Smith, I'm the president. You can't prosecute me.

[13:10:13]

Judge Chutkan said, no, that's a monarchal idea. No one is above the law. If you break the law, you're a president, you get to be prosecuted. Now he's appealing that to the D.C. Circuit. He's going to try to get a stay. There will be a big fight about it.

But, fundamentally, I think Judge Chutkan was right. I have written about this, including for CNN. It's inimical to American law that there would be one person in our country who is never able to be held accountable for violating criminal laws simply because they're president.

He also lost an important immunity decision in the civil context. But, in criminal, it's even more important. He will fail, but it's a real issue. It's going to occasion a lot of attention. There will be a big fight over whether the whole thing should be stayed. So it's something else that we will be watching together in the weeks ahead.

SANCHEZ: Yes, definitely. And we hope you will come back to break down the decision once it's made.

Norm Eisen, thanks so much for the analysis.

EISEN: Thank you. Of course.

SANCHEZ: We want to focus on the nation's Capitol now, where House Republicans are escalating their probe into President Biden.

In the coming days, they're going to take a key procedural step toward formalizing their impeachment inquiry. The Rules Committee is set to consider a resolution on that next Tuesday. And if it passes, it'll face a vote on the House floor.

KEILAR: Let's go now to CNN's Manu Raju.

So, Manu, tell us how this is going to play out and why the GOP is taking this step now.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they want to show that this probe is escalating. And they're arguing that they would have more powers in court if it comes down to it by having a formal vote on the floor to authorize an inquiry.

Remember, this impeachment inquiry has been going on since then- Speaker Kevin McCarthy announced that it would happen. There does not actually need to be a vote, but they are taking this step in a symbolic gesture of sorts, but one they believe they can have greater power.

Now, the challenge in taking a vote like this is that they have a narrow majority. Democrats are going to vote against this in lockstep. That means that in this narrow Republican majority, Speaker Johnson can only afford to lose three Republican votes. And with 18 Republicans in Biden districts, that means that the pressure will be on them.

But in talking to several of those members, including some from New York, they are making very clear that they will side with the speaker now, but they are still uncertain about whether Biden should be impeached.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Is it a good politics to go down the road of impeachment?

REP. MARC MOLINARO (R-NY): The fundamental responsibility to provide oversight and check and balance on the executive branch isn't subjected to what's in the best political interest of everyone, anyone.

I didn't come to Washington to expel a member of Congress or impeach a president. The White House and the administration would do well by honoring subpoenas and participating in the investigation. RAJU: You don't think it puts moderate Republicans in a tough spot?

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): I think the people in the moderate Republicans, their constituents want to see this. I think people in moderate Democrat districts want to see it too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment coming from House Oversight Chairman James Comer, who plans to move forward with contempt proceedings if Hunter Biden, the president's son, does not comply with a subpoena to be deposed behind closed doors by mid-December.

Hunter Biden's team says that he will comply in public. He accuses Republicans of cherry-picking testimony, including what they expect to be his, behind closed doors. But that will not fly for Comer. He told me that he does believe he has the votes to hold Hunter Biden in contempt if he does not comply.

But then the question is, where does it go from here? Do they actually have the votes for impeachment? Can they make the -- just to draw the line between Hunter Biden's actions and Joe Biden's actions, suggested he acted corruptly while in office, something they have not done yet, all major questions as they press ahead here guys.

KEILAR: All right, Manu, thank you for that report live for us from Capitol Hill.

And, today, we have seen former President Trump. He's trying to turn, as he does so frequently, the courthouse into a bit of a campaign stop. But his GOP rivals, they're busy stumping in Iowa and New Hampshire, hoping to seize any momentum that they may have gained coming out of this debate last night.

And it was a night where you saw several candidates butting heads. Others made some unexpected alliances. There were some direct attacks on Trump, who, of course, skipped the event altogether.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But do I think he was kidding when he said he was a dictator? All you have to do is look at the history. His conduct is unacceptable. He's unfit.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is not a job for somebody that's pushing 80. We need somebody that's younger.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can't defeat Democrat chaos with Republican chaos. And that's what Donald Trump gives us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Is that enough, though, to chip away at the lead?

SANCHEZ: Yes. Yes.

[13:15:00]

CNN's Jessica Dean is here to break it all down.

Jessica, some feisty moments, the fourth debate. They have had time to adjust tactics. Nikki Haley was definitely the main target, I would say, yesterday. How much does this change the dynamic overall?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are now, just remind everyone, less than 40 days from the Iowa caucuses.

So the voters are going to tell us soon enough. And we really have to underscore that, until they start voting, we can prognosticate, and we can't read the tea leaves.

KEILAR: You keep telling us this.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: But I just like to remind people.

But what I think you can glean from last night in terms of where the race is today and the state of play is, Nikki Haley took a lot of incoming, as you both alluded to, and she acknowledged it on the stage. And it really illuminates her place in this race right now, which is to have a lot of momentum, and to go into the voting with a lot of wind at her back and a lot of support.

But we also saw Florida Governor Ron DeSantis really stepping up and having a bigger debate performance that we have seen previously, where he really dominated more of the conversation, because it came back to some of these culture wars, which is an issue.

If you talk to his team, that's what they want to be talking about. That's where they feel like he really excels and can sell himself to voters, especially evangelical voters in Iowa, but, again, Haley taking a lot of that incoming. I want you to just watch what she said earlier this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: These fellows, they would take every bit of that support, if it was going to them. They're just jealous that it's coming to me. And I mean, you look, last night, it was very clear we're surging in the polls. Every one of those guys sees it. And they showed it.

But we're picking and choosing our battles. It's not worth us dealing with Vivek.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And she mentioned Vivek Ramaswamy. They had obviously a lot of clashes. And then Chris Christie stepped in to say to him, like, knock it off. It's enough. Like, Nikki Haley and I are obviously running against each other, but what you're saying is crazy.

So it wasn't quite an alliance of sorts, but it did -- he did step in there. And we did hear from Governor Chris Christie again really drilling down on his anti-Trump message. That is what we have -- you all have spoken with him. And we have seen him time and time again come back to that message.

He's looking toward New Hampshire and those more moderate Republican voters. And that's where he really feels like he can make a difference. And that was more of the message that we heard from him last night on that stage.

KEILAR: Interesting the others were just sort of this, it's time for something new.

It's not exactly a hatchet, right?

SANCHEZ: Yes. And he called them out on it. He said that he -- Trump was like Voldemort from "Harry Potter," the one that should not be named, because they wouldn't directly call him out.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: He that shall not be named.

KEILAR: Not be named.

DEAN: I know. So there you go.

KEILAR: Jessica Dean, thank you for that.

DEAN: Yes.

KEILAR: Be sure to watch "THE LEAD" as well. Jake is going to have a one-on-one with former Congresswoman Liz Cheney. Their conversation airs at 5:00 p.m., as she considers what she's going to do, maybe throw her hat in the ring.

SANCHEZ: Yes, potential third-party run for her. I'm sure Jake will ask about that.

KEILAR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Still to come on NEWS CENTRAL: right now, trustees at one Ivy League school holding an emergency meeting hours after its school president testified on Capitol Hill, catching fire for her comments on antisemitism.

Plus, two Russians are being accused of hacking current and former U.S. government officials, all in an attempt to interfere with elections in the United Kingdom, a crazy web to untangle -- when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:22:29]

SANCHEZ: We have some new developments to bring you right now. The University of Pennsylvania's Board of Trustees has just wrapped up

an emergency meeting, as school president Liz Magill faces scathing criticism over her testimony at Tuesday's congressional hearing about antisemitism at the Ivy League school.

The presidents of Harvard and MIT are also under fire for their statements at that hearing.

CNN's Matt Egan joins us now with the details.

So, Matt, what are you hearing about this emergency meeting with the Penn trustees?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, here's what we know, Boris.

This was a virtual gathering of the school's powerful Board of Trustees. And while it wasn't a formal meeting, we do know it came together rather hastily, a university spokesperson telling me that this virtual gathering was organized around 2:00 p.m. yesterday.

And that timing is key, because that's just a few hours after the governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, condemned Penn president Liz Magill's testimony on Capitol Hill. And he actually call for the Board of Trustees to meet and decide whether or not that testimony lives up to the school's values.

Now, we don't know whether or not the fate of Liz Magill was the central focus of this virtual gathering. But you got to believe this was the elephant in the room. This hearing and that testimony came under enormous scrutiny.

In particular, there was an exchange between Liz Magill and Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik. Listen to that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): I am asking, specifically calling for the genocide of Jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment?

LIZ MAGILL, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: If it is directed and severe or pervasive, it is harassment.

STEFANIK: So the answer is yes?

It is a context-dependent decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Now, those answers faced intense scrutiny.

We heard from billionaire Bill Ackman calling on the Penn president, as well as the president of Harvard and MIT, to step down. The CEO of Pfizer slammed it, calling it one of the most disgraceful moments in the history of U.S. academia. Even the White House had to weigh in, making clear that there's no place for calls for genocide. Boris, it's clear that University of Pennsylvania faces a moment of

crisis. It's not clear yet whether or not Liz Magill will help lead the university's response to this crisis.

SANCHEZ: So, how is she personally responding to this criticism now?

EGAN: Well, after the hearing, the University of Pennsylvania's president, Liz Magill, she did go on X and try to clean up her response.

[13:25:03]

She clarified that the university does need to make some changes to their policies. Listen to what Liz Magill said on Twitter yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGILL: In that moment, I was focused on our university's longstanding policies aligned with the U.S. Constitution, which say that speech alone is not punishable.

I was not focused on, but I should have been, the irrefutable fact that a call for genocide of Jewish people is a call for some of the most terrible violence human beings can perpetrate. I want to be clear. A call for genocide of Jewish people is threatening, deeply so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Now, that response was not enough to silence some of the university's biggest critics.

Jonathan Greenblatt, the CEO of the ADL, he was speaking to our colleague Kate Bolduan earlier. He said that that Liz Magill response looked like a hostage video, and he said that he has lost confidence in her ability to lead.

SANCHEZ: Matt Egan, thanks so much for the update -- Brianna.

KEILAR: This just in. We have learned just now that President Biden spoke today with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to -- quote -- "discuss the latest developments in Israel and Gaza."

This is happening as the strikes and the suffering are continuing in Gaza today, exactly two months since the beginning of the war, when Hamas slaughtered some 1,200 people in Israel. Israel Defense Forces say they have breached Hamas' -- quote -- "defense lines" in several locations, including in Khan Yunis in the south.

A warning now that the video that you are about to see is disturbing. What it shows is just the flood of wounded Palestinians, as you can see, many of them children, rushing today into Nasser Hospital in the city after these strikes.

The Hamas-run Palestinian Health Ministry says more than 17,000 people have been killed in Gaza, another 46,000 wounded since October 7.

I want to turn now to CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who is in Sderot, Israel.

Jeremy, the IDF today said it has eliminated multiple senior leaders in Hamas. What can you tell us about this?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right.

The Israeli military is touting a series of what they call successes in eliminating senior Hamas commanders, both in the Northern Brigade of Hamas, saying that they eliminated the commander and the deputy commander of Hamas' Northern Brigade.

They showed a picture that shows 11 senior Hamas officials, saying that five of those were killed in a strike on a tunnel shaft in Northern Gaza. They also said that two other senior Hamas officials were killed in an attack on a Hamas intelligence center in an unknown location in Gaza, all of this coming, of course, as they're -- the Israeli military is ramping up its military activity in Southern Gaza we have seen, as there have been multiple airstrikes in Southern Gaza.

And, today, President Biden speaking directly with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This is the 16th call between these two leaders. And it comes, of course, as the U.S. has been pressuring Israel to conduct its operations in the south in a far more targeted manner, in a way that is much more cautious about civilian casualties, making clear to Israeli officials, effectively, that the carnage that we saw in Northern Gaza cannot -- repeated in the southern half of the Gaza Strip.

And yet the images that we are seeing today that you just showed our viewers from Southern Gaza, from an airstrike on Khan Yunis, as bodies and injured individuals, including many bloody children, being brought into a hospital in Southern Gaza, those are very similar images to what we have seen over the course of this war.

And they do not show a significant shift in Israeli tactics as it relates to this war, as we are continuing to see civilian casualties being brought in from a number of those apparent Israeli strikes.

KEILAR: Yes, heartbreaking to see and to see that ratio of civilians to combatants here.

Jeremy Diamond live for us in Israel, thank you for that report.

The Justice Department charging Russians over a yearslong hacking campaign against current and former U.S. officials. We will have new details next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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