Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Hunter Biden Charged With Nine Counts in Federal Tax Case; Trump to Testify Again in Civil Fraud Trial on Monday; University Presidents Face Calls to Step Down in Wake of Anti-Semitism Testimony. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 08, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Will he answer questions about his son? President Biden, due to leave the White House shortly, his first chance to comment on the new federal tax charges against Hunter Biden, an indictment with salacious new details.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And an emotional day in court as survivors and victims' families are right now giving impact statements before a judge decides the punishment for a Michigan teenager who killed four of his high school classmates.

BERMAN: New pressure for the president of the University of Pennsylvania to resign after her controversial answers about genocide. Could this be her final day on the job?

I'm John Berman with Fredricka Whitfield, Sara and Kate are off. This is CNN News Central.

All right, there's a live pictures of the White House were, shortly, it could be the first chance to hear from President Biden since his son was charged with new counts of federal tax evasion, charges that come with a litany of new salacious details.

The president is leaving a campaign in Nevada. We are watching to see if he stops to comment on the way to the helicopter.

Now, according to federal prosecutors, Hunter Biden, quote, engaged in a four-year scheme to not pay at least $1.4 million in taxes that he owed from 2016 through 2019. Prosecutors alleged that instead he spent hundreds of thousand dollars on drugs, escorts, exotic cars.

CNN's Jessica Schneider following this for us this morning. Jessica, what's the latest here?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. This is the second indictment against the president's son just this year. And it's actually these charges now out of California that really do bring much greater peril for Hunter Biden. He could face up to 17 years in prison if convicted on these nine counts. So, this latest indictment, what does it include? It includes failure to file and pay taxes, evasion of a tax assessment, and filing a false or fraudulent tax return. And prosecutors are describing it as Hunter Biden engaging in a four-year scheme to avoid paying at least $1.4 million in federal taxes that they say he owed for a span of several years.

Now, this is from the indictment. I'll read it for you. It says, between 2016 and October 15th, 2020, the defendant spent his money on drugs, escorts and girlfriends, luxury hotels and rental properties, exotic cars, clothing, and other items of a personal nature, in short, everything but his taxes.

And more specifically, prosecutors are saying that Hunter Biden subverted the payroll and tax withholding process of his company when he withdrew millions of dollars. They say it was all to subsidize his extravagant lifestyle. It included nearly $700,000 in payments to various women, nearly $200,000 in adult entertainment, and about $70,000 in rehab, among other things.

So, Hunter Biden's attorney immediately responded, Abbe Lowell, and he said this. He said, based on the facts and the law, if Hunter's last name was anything other than Biden, the charges in Delaware and now in California would not have been brought.

Now, President Biden was asked about this indictment, John, and here's what he's saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your son, while there's no ties, to you could be charged by your Department of Justice. How will that impact your presidency?

[10:05:00]

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: First of all, my son has done nothing wrong. I trust him. I have faith in him and it impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: So, that was actually from President Biden back in May.

Now, David Weiss, he's the special counsel now, he's been investigating this case for several years. He was named special counsel in August. Of course, that gives him wide latitude to investigate and prosecute.

And, of course, there is that other indictment against Hunter Biden out of Delaware. That stems from his illegal purchase of a handgun back in 2018.

So, John, now the president's son will be fighting criminal charges in California, also Delaware, all while his father mounts that re- election campaign and while Republicans continue to call into question Hunter Biden's international business dealings and, of course, their claims so far unsubstantiated that President Biden benefited from his son's business dealings in Ukraine and China.

We know that Republicans are moving toward an impeachment inquiry into President Biden, so there is a lot going on with the president and his son just as we're moving into this election year. John?

BERMAN: Jessica Schneider, thank you very much.

And as Jessica noted those comments that we heard from the president, those were from back in May. We are waiting to see if he makes new comments on this in really next few minutes as he walks out of the White House to travel to Nevada. Fred?

WHITFIELD: Right, and most likely, John, those comments were really in reference to the Delaware case. They probably didn't see this California case coming.

All right, let's discuss all of this now with Caroline Polisi, a federal and white collar criminal defense attorney. Good to see you.

So, how bad is this for Hunter Biden, in your view?

CAROLINE POLISI, LECTURER IN LAW, COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL: It's pretty bad, Fred. That indictment really spared no expense when it comes to really calling out Hunter Biden for the embarrassing things that he spent this money on as opposed to paying his taxes.

You'll recall, and as Jessica laid out there, he could have avoided these charges had that a plea deal not fallen through many months ago in Delaware. David Weiss alluded to the fact that these new tax charges were imminent.

They are much more serious than the gun charges that he's facing in Delaware. And now he's facing multiple charges, multiple coasts.

Abbe Lowell, his defense attorney, you'll note that that statement that he made immediately following this indictment coming down, didn't really defend the conduct, didn't say that he was innocent of the conduct. He just noted that this essentially was a political prosecution, and that were his name, anything other than Biden, they never would have been brought.

WHITFIELD: So, is it your view that that earlier failed plea deal in Delaware greatly influenced the pursuit of this California case?

POLISI: Absolutely. You know, many called that a sweetheart deal, those charges in Delaware, which were brought after the falling apart of the plea deal. Many people criticized them for being sort of trumped up, if you will, in that many people wouldn't have -- or many prosecutors really wouldn't have brought those gun related charges. He could have pleaded guilty to simply misdemeanors instead. They bump them up to felonies.

But these tax charges are more serious. I don't agree with Abbe Lowell. I think they would have been they would have been prosecuted by any prosecutor for anybody not with the last name Biden given just how egregious the conduct was because it's fraudulent conduct, right? There's difference between misdemeanor tax charges and the charges of this nature that there was really a campaign to hide money so that he didn't have to pay these taxes.

WHITFIELD: And you already said that Abbe Lowell's first response really doesn't say much about defending their client, Hunter Biden. So, how are they positioning themselves to defend Hunter Biden given these new charges?

POLISI: Look, I think they've already announced that they are going to make an argument, both on the gun charges and likely now these charges, that the original plea deal should have been honored. So, again, that's not fighting the facts of the indictment.

Also, Abbe Lowell has a reputation for being a real bulldog. He has represented Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. So, he doesn't discriminate in terms of his clientele.

He also sent a letter noting that he had asked prosecutors who brought these charges most recently to sit down with them. They denied that meeting. So, I think he's going to go the route of selective prosecution, vindictive prosecution, things, arguments that we've really seen Trump make in his prosecutions.

WHITFIELD: Trying to undermine the case in that way.

[10:10:00]

Caroline Polisi, good to see you. Thank you so much. John?

BERMAN: All right, Donald Trump set to take the stand in the New York Civil fraud trial against him. His attorney claimed to reporters that she tried to dissuade Trump from testifying while he is under a gag order, but she claims that Trump insisted.

CNN's Kara Scannell is outside the courthouse this morning. Kara. what can we expect here on Monday?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Donald Trump is taking the stand in his own defense. And as you remember, he already testified in this case, but then he was called by the state attorney's lawyers. This time, he will be questioned by his own lawyer.

So, they will be setting the table of what he wants to talk about in this case, and we will have a lot of latitude in the ground that he'll cover.

Now, as you mentioned, his attorney, Alina Habba, saying that she advised him against speaking because of the gag order. She also said he's not afraid and that he will clarify some matters.

Now, this gag order is pretty narrow. It just says that Trump can't make any comments about the judge's staff. So, that leads you to think that it's a possibility we might see a bit of a repeat of the last time Trump was on the stand when he turned that witness stand into a campaign event and was criticizing the judge who was sitting just a few feet from him, the New York attorney general, Letitia James, who was in the room, and the case writ large. And at some point, the judge even said to Trump's lawyer, you need to rein your client in or else I will.

So, we'll look to see if we learn anything new or see what kind of explanation Trump may give on what the allegations are in this case. This case is about him inflating the value of his properties on financial statements to obtain better rates on loans and insurance. And when Trump testified the last time, he acknowledged that he was familiar with these financial statements, that the banks did rely on them, but he said he relied on the accountants. John?

BERMAN: All right. Kara Scannell, outside the courthouse, a big week on the way there, Kara, thank you very much.

WHITFIELD: Indeed.

BERMAN: Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right. Happening right now, families of victims of the 2021 Oxford High School shooting in Michigan are getting a chance to address their killer for the first time in court. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my family, we can't say to each other that we miss Hannah (ph), even though we feel it in every atom of our body. We love her too much and those words are too hard. Because if we say that out loud to each other, we all have to face the fact that we have to miss her forever. It's not an instance where we can wait for her to come back. It is the rest of our lifetime without her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Soon, a judge will decide the fate of the teenage shooter, Ethan Crumbley, who pled guilty to killing four of his classmates. The 17-year-old could be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

CNN's Jean Casarez is joining us now from Pontiac, Michigan. So, Jean, what is the sense that you're getting right now from inside the court? I mean, these are some incredibly moving impact statements.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the defendant in this case actually killed four victims, injured seven. What we're hearing right now are the immediate family members of those that died. We're hearing from mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers.

And, technically, these are the family members of the crime victims. But as you listen to what they say, that they don't want to get out of bed in the morning, that they wake up every day thinking about their loved one, that they are in fear, they're concerned if they go outside, that something will happen to another one of their family members. You hear the post-traumatic stress that is part of every single family member. They are victims. They are crime victims. And under the Michigan Crime Victim Act, they are allowed to speak in court at sentencing for how long as they want to. And that is what we're hearing right now.

It's the first time we've heard from these victims' families, because they have been in court through all of the hearings, but they have stayed silent. They have cried in court because I have witnessed it. And they have a room outside of the courtroom, which is interesting, which is a room they can go to for peace and solace. They have had that from the beginning, along with a therapy dog, if these family members have needed it.

But the other aspect today is that this is the formal sentencing of Ethan Crumbley. And this is the person who confessed to 24 counts, including terrorism causing death. And he will have the possibility of life without any possibility of parole, which is an extraordinary punishment for a juvenile.

He was 15 when he committed this mass shooting and killings. He is 17 years old now. But the court determined, under the Supreme Court precedent of Miller versus Alabama, that he potentially is irreparably corrupt and will be able to be sentenced to without any possibility of parole.

[10:15:01]

But we don't know the final outcome. That will come after arguments from both sides. But right now, we are listening to the family members. And the judge must take into consideration what the family members are saying, and they are asking for life without any possibility of his freedom.

WHITFIELD: Very powerful. All right, Gene Casarez, keep us posted, thank you so much, because the impact statements are ongoing today. John?

BERMAN: Under pressure, the growing calls for the president of the University of Pennsylvania to resign after her remarks on genocide, after her answers about genocide. This as the House opens an investigation into the university's handling of the matter.

So, what's the one thing that presidential candidates keep on doing that might make no real difference at all? We have surprising new data coming in.

And a big jobs report in this morning beating expectations, it is the economy that just keeps on giving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

BERMAN: All right. Developing this morning, will the leaders of three prestigious universities have their jobs at the end of the day? The presidents of the University of Pennsylvania, Harvard and MIT, they're facing intense backlash after failing to explicitly say that calling for the genocide of Jews would violate their code of conduct on bullying or harassment.

Now, the U.S. House has launched an investigation with full subpoena power into all three schools. The University of Pennsylvania's Board of Trustees held an emergency meeting regarding its president, Liz Magill. The Wharton Board of Advisers is urging her to step down. Wharton is Penn's business school.

With us now is Joel Rubin. He is the former deputy assistant secretary of state for Legislative Affairs for the Obama administration. He's also running for Congress in Maryland.

Joel, do you think these university presidents should step down?

JOEL RUBIN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS: John, without a doubt, they should step down. You know, this has been a horrific week to be an American-Jew, and it's been a horrifying week to be an American and to watch the failure of leaders right now in the face of the scourge of anti-Semitism rising in front of all of us to basically say this is okay, we can accept a language that targets Jews, we can accept language that makes Jewish students feel afraid for their lives on campus, and that might be okay given a context.

You know, imagine if Russian-Americans, for example, were targeted repeatedly because of the invasion of Russia, or imagine if Chinese students, Chinese-American students, visiting Chinese students were targeted because the Chinese government's suppression of the Uyghurs, it's unacceptable, it's un-American. I can't believe that we've even having this discussion. It's been a horrifying display of failure of leadership, and they don't deserve to stay on these jobs.

BERMAN: So, what you're saying is that these universities, at least in the way they talk, they speak differently about things said about Jews than other minority groups?

RUBIN: Yes, John. Let's be very clear about what is happening right now. There has been a strategic political choice by activists who hate Israel, to be blunt, who really want Israel to disappear, to try to intimidate American-Jews into silence, in particular those Jews who speak out in support of Israel.

I myself look at my Twitter feed, the anti -Semitic attacks against me for expressing even a modicum of empathy for Israel are outlandish. And so this is a choice, to try to intimidate and silence through verbal violence, and now, you know, there's always the concern of the threat becoming real, because this is the single worst environment for Jews in terms of our threat level here in the United States since prior to the Tree of Life massacre, and that is frightening.

These are moments that leaders need to step up. And the leaders that we saw this past week of these universities have failed the test and they are now allowing hate speech to flourish as a result.

BERMAN: Again, suggesting that calling for genocide should somehow be protected on campus is one thing.

But I do wonder, have you thought about if you do support the Palestinian cause, not what happened on October 7th, but if you are supportive of the plight of Palestinians in the Middle East, what type of protest or demonstrations do you feel should be permitted on a college campus?

RUBIN: This has been a journey for me professionally and politically, I have to tell you, John. I was the founder of J Street, which is a progressive pro-Israel advocacy organization. I was the Jewish director for the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign in 2020. I've been a long time voice for Middle East peace, for Palestinian rights and statehood, even now throughout this period of the war between Israel and Hamas, consistently calling for aid to the Palestinians and a two-state solution.

But voices like mine are getting destroyed by people to the hard left who don't want these voices, don't want the broad middle, those of us who are fighting for peace. They want an elimination strategy. And so we have to continue to call for peace and partnership, but we have to push those voices outside the tent of normal dialogue.

They are not looking for dialogue. They're looking for elimination. And it's depressing as an American and an American-Jew who's been fighting for peace for years to have to say this. But this is what we're looking at right now. And I think this is a moment of decision for leaders.

And they have to decide what side are they on? Are they on the side of peace or are they on the side of hate?

[10:25:01]

And this past week, what we saw on Capitol Hill with that testimony unfortunately showed the latter one with these precedents.

BERMAN: Joe Rubin, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right. Still to come, Donald Trump's challengers for the Republican ticket on the trail in key primary states today, but are all their events translating to progress in the polls?

And the last jobs report of the year shows a 35th straight month of gains. The acting labor secretary joins us straight ahead live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]