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U.S. Presidential Election 2024; Rivals Take Campaign Trail in Crucial States as Trump Braces for Court; Interview with The Messina Group CEO And Former Obama Campaign Manager Jim Messina; Michigan High School Shooter's Sentencing for Killing Four Classmates; In November, U.S. Economy Created 199,000 New Employment; Interview with Acting Labor Secretary Julie Su; Tomorrow's Gillette Stadium Showdown Between Army and Navy. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 08, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: All right. Today, the 2024 Republican presidential candidates, they are on the campaign trail. Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, and Vivek Ramaswamy, they're in Iowa. Chris Christie's in New Hampshire. Are they wasting their time? This isn't a question. Do they have no chance against Donald Trump? But going on the campaign trail, how important is it really?

CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten is with us now. Harry, I love this topic because it gets to the issue of how candidates choose to run their campaigns. Do campaigns matter?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATE REPORTER: Do campaigns matter? Does going out and greeting the voters matter? Voters, they don't seem to care. Take a look here. This is the national polling average in days on the campaign trail. You can see of the top, four candidates in the polling average, the one who's campaigned the least on the campaign trail, Donald Trump, 55 days on the campaign trail, yet nationally he's at 61 percent. Vivek Ramaswamy, the most days on the campaign trail, 145, yet he's at just five percent. It seems to be an inverse correlation.

BERMAN: What does matter?

ENTEN: What does matter? How about media mentions? That's what Donald Trump does so well. So, this is "Fox News" mentions in 2023. Look at that, over 22,000, nearly 23,000. Then that correlates far better with that 61 percent. The fewest media mentions on "Fox News", look at that, Vivek Ramaswamy with just a little bit more than 2,000.

Now, there's a question whether this is correlation or causation.

BERMAN: Let me ask the question.

ENTEN: Yes.

BERMAN: Is this correlation or causation? ENTEN: Who really knows, but I will say that Donald Trump's media mentions have climbed ever higher during this year. It used to be that he and DeSantis were quite close, but right now he's basically getting three times the media mentions on "Fox News" than Ron DeSantis.

BERMAN: So, if campaigns themselves pressing the flesh doesn't matter, one might suggest that debates do. If you were doing a debate, you could make a dent maybe in Donald Trump's lead if you chose to talk about him. But what are these other Republicans talking about in the debate stage?

ENTEN: Yes, they're not talking about Donald Trump. Who are Trump's rivals attacking on the debates? 87 times they've attacked the other GOP candidates. Joe Biden comes in at second place at 62. Just 34 times they have attacked Donald Trump. And the fact is maybe they want to get into a one on one with Trump, that ain't going to work, folks, because choice for GOP nominee at the GOP nomination came down at Trump and DeSantis. Look at that, Trump with a 30-point lead. Trump and Haley, look at that, Trump with a 40-point lead.

So, whatever the GOP candidates not name Trump right now are doing, John, simply put, it just ain't working.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: With us now is Former Obama Campaign Manager Jim Messina, and CNN Senior Political Commentator and Former Special Assistant to George W. Bush, Scott Jennings.

I want to start with the premise of what Harry was saying there, because I do think it's fascinating. If going out there on the campaign trail, pressing the flesh doesn't move the needle, Scott, why do you keep sending the candidates you're working for out there to do it?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEROGE W. BUSH, AND COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: Well, what else are you going to do? I mean, there's two things you can do in a campaign. You can campaign. You can raise money and buy advertising. The problem for a lot of these Republicans right now is that no matter how well they do at either one of those things, the thing sitting on top of their head like an anvil is Donald Trump. He's sitting at 60 percent nationally and Republican voters still, by and large, like him. Even people who say they want to vote for someone else say they still like Donald Trump.

So, it is true that, you know, campaigning and pressing the flesh doesn't exactly change anything that people already think about the guy who's leading the race by a pretty wide margin.

BERMAN: Jim, I'm going to change the subject here, and you'll forgive me, but you are a kind of self-appointed adult diaper for the Democratic Party. You say that Democrats occasionally talk themselves into bedwetting over the state of the race, correct? However, as you look at the polls right now --

JIM MESSINA, CEO, THE MESSINA GROUP AND FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Correct.

BERMAN: -- President Biden is, you know, sagging in the polls at 37 percent approval rating as low as it has been. What worries you the most? What presses on your bladder the most, Jim?

MESSINA: A third-party candidacy. Some of these third parties that are out there like no labels talking about running. Because I still believe, you know, Harry and I've talked about this a lot. I think all these polls right now are garbage. They're too far out. Voters haven't started thinking about it. They're just not determinative of the election. And I really do believe in the bottom of my heart that once this is a choice between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, Joe Biden narrowly wins that choice.

But if there's third parties like labels. If we see, you know, people siphoning off votes from Joe Biden, that's the thing that keeps me up at night and does not allow me to sleep.

BERMAN: Scott, what keeps you up at night as a Republican? Is there anything that you think, what's the thing most likely to get President Biden re-elected?

JENNINGS: Well, I mean, if you're a Donald Trump supporter, the thing that could happen between now and next November is that he could be a convicted felon.

[10:35:00]

And I have said from the beginning that if he is a convicted felon before next November, there will be a cohort of Republicans and other, you know, centrist or center right independent voters who simply won't want to associate their franchise with a convicted felon. I doubt the Republican Party would take him out of the nomination if he has secured it by that time.

And so, you know, we've never had a convicted felon appear on the national ballot as a presidential candidate, but it just strikes me that it would be highly problematic to go out and ask for people's votes for president if you had just been convicted of a felony. So, that -- that's A clearest and most present danger to his candidacy, is just the legal situations. Not the civil cases, but the criminal cases that he's going to be involved in next year.

BERMAN: You know, Jim, is there any third-party candidate who siphons votes from Donald Trump?

MESSINA: Well, it's a good question. You can argue that RFK, Robert Kennedy Jr. could. He holds a bunch of same positions in some polling I've seen in the Midwest. He takes from both. So, it is a real question. We also don't know who's going to be on top of the ticket of no labels. If they put on someone like Larry Hogan, to Scott's very good point, and Trump gets convicted, maybe some Republicans vote for the former Republican governor of Maryland. So, you know, I think the question is who the candidates are, and we just don't know this far out.

BERMAN: All right. Jim Messina, Scott Jennings, great to --

JENNINGS: Jim --

BERMAN: Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

JENNINGS: John, let me --

BERMAN: What are you saying?

JENNINGS: One thing about the third-party candidates. I think Jim is totally correct. I think, you know, when you have an election where two candidates have some weakness and there's obviously some dissatisfaction with the idea of a rematch here. If a credible third- party candidate gets on the ballot in a state that was decided by, you know, 10,000, 12,000, 15,000 votes, you can easily see how this thing could be upended.

And although I think some of these people do take away from Biden, you cannot discount that one -- at least one could take away from Trump as well. And it doesn't take that many people to either sit it out or change their vote or, you know, sort of cast a protest vote to really, really possibly change the outcome of an election.

BERMAN: Scott Jennings, Jim Messina, thanks to both of you. Go drink a lot of fluids. Appreciate your time.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: All right. All morning long we've been listening to the impact statements coming from victims and the family members of victims in that Oxford High School shooting that took place more than two years ago.

And right now, facing sentencing, either life with parole or life without parole, that shooter is listening to these impact statements. Let's go right now to what we've been listening to this morning.

KYLIE OSSEGE, SURVIVED SCHOOL SHOOTING: -- like this. And I realized what had just happened. I was just shot and I thought I was going to die. As I laid on the floor, I attempted to get up, but my legs weren't moving. I repeatedly hit my legs with my hands like this in an attempt to regain any kind of feeling, any kind of feeling, but not a single thing. I then somehow tried to do a push up to somehow drag my body to a safe place where I could get some help, but with the weight of my Carhartt jacket, and my backpack full of laptops and textbooks, I was unable to do so. It was so painful.

I let myself drop back down onto the floor where I felt warmth on my face. Warmth from blood soaking into the carpet. I remember hearing a squish sound against my right ear and it was the sound of carpet mixed with blood going into my ear. I started yelling for help, but when I say, yelling, I mean a shout that was loud enough for someone around me to hear, yet quiet enough for the shooter not to hear me. No one ever came, but I did hear something.

I reached my hand over my head, and I realized it was Hana. I could hear her groaning beside me. Realizing that I wasn't alone, I kept trying to reassure her. Someone will come help us, don't worry, just keep breathing, just please stay with me, I said that to her a thousand times. At one point, a SWAT team member came running past us. He was the first person I had seen. I pleaded to him, please help us. He did a double take and said, someone will come back for you.

[10:40:00]

Hana and I were left in utter loneliness. I thought I was dying. I kept repeating my mom's phone number to make sure my brain was functioning. I was creating math problems in my head and solving them to make sure I wasn't dying. I continued to yell for help. 15 minutes of lying there absolutely helpless. 15 minutes of lying in a pool of my own blood. 15 minutes of hearing Hana St. Juliana's last sounds while stroking her hair and trying to encourage her.

When help finally came, they attended to Hana, attempting to wrap a tourniquet around her. Someone eventually came for me, too. I didn't know who it was, but I know it was a man.

WHITFIELD: Pain is indelible for -- indelible pain for kids who endured such heartache. This young lady talking about listening to and being with her dying friend while she was injured in that shooting almost three years ago. We're going to continue to watch the impact and listen to the impact statements coming from victims, family members of victims there in Pontiac, Michigan. We'll take a short break for now. We'll be right back.

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[10:45:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: A strong and resilient economy, as evident in the latest U.S. jobs report. 199,000 new jobs were added in November, beating expectations. The unemployment rate ticking down to 3.7 percent. That unemployment rate is key. It has remained below 4 percent for much of the past 18 months, despite a number of interest rate hikes from the Federal Reserve.

Joining us right now to discuss this report and more is Acting Labor Secretary Julie Su. Secretary, good to see you. So, your reaction to this report?

JULIE SU, ACTING LABOR SECRETARY: You too. Thank you very much. Yes, this is another strong job's report indicative of stable and steady growth. You mentioned the jobs numbers are up. In fact, that low unemployment rate is the lowest unemployment rate for the longest stretch since Diana Ross topped the charts.

And so, this is part of an overall story of how the economy is strong, Bidenomics is working. We are investing in America by investing in America's infrastructure, clean energy manufacturing and its workers, and labor force participation rate remains robust. And this is exactly what we want to see in a strong economy.

WHITFIELD: I wish I could think of a Diana Ross song off the top of my head that topped the charts because they all seem to have.

So, that being said, you know, CNN has a new poll that shows 71 percent of Americans view the economy as poor. So, that with consistently good jobs numbers, why do you believe people aren't as confident about the overall economy?

SU: Right. So, when we talk to the American people about President Biden's policies, you know, do they want to see more manufacturing jobs in the U.S.? Do they believe that investments in infrastructure are important? Should we be doing things to address the climate crisis? All of those are highly popular. At the same time, we are seeing unions get, you know, high positive ratings by the American public at the highest time in decades.

So, I think some of this is a, you know, reflection of the aftereffects of the pandemic and the, you know, global economic stress that that induced. People were still, you know, coming back from that sense of insecurity and we're making good progress.

But, to be frank, I think some of this is, you know, people feel like the economy has not been fair for too long. That's why the president says we have to build an economy from the middle out and the bottom up, in which everyone is included.

I talked about Diana Ross earlier, but if you look at the comparison between CEO pay and frontline worker pay, in 1970, CEO pay was something like 20 times higher. Today, it's 300 some times higher. And that feels unfair to people. It doesn't make them feel good. And we're doing everything we can to combat it. And I think when we succeed in that, it's going to make people feel better.

WHITFIELD: All right. People want the relief. That's for sure. Our Acting Labor Secretary, Julie Su. Thank you so much. Have a great weekend.

John.

BERMAN: I did not have Diana Ross on my bingo card for that interview.

WHITFIELD: I can't -- you know? She has so many. I'm like, "Stop! In The Name of Love". I mean, I could go on, but you don't want to hear me sing, really.

BERMAN: Never lose to Diana Ross.

All right. America's Game kicks off tomorrow. Army -- the Army Navy game. One of the most famous rivalries in all of sports is making new history this time.

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BERMAN: All right. For the first time ever, one of the best rivalries in sports will take place on one of the best places on Earth. The Army-Navy game tomorrow afternoon at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts.

CNN's Coy Wire is in Boston right now. Coy, I have to say this might be the first chance for some good football in Foxborough this year.

[10:55:00]

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and how about your Patriots last night with a big win over the Steelers? Good vibes here in your city, Boston, John. Welcome to Long Wharf. Constructed in 1710 that -- there is the custom house block built in the mid-1800s at the height of Boston's center for shipping here in this country. And there's the iconic skyline with the clock tower. I know you recognize so well, John.

And this Harbor, so why here in New England, for the first time ever, this Army-Navy game? Well, next weekend is the 250th anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Also, Massachusetts is considered the birthplace of both the U.S. Army and U.S. Navy. We caught up with both teams to ask why, though, this rivalry is so much more than a game.

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LEO LOWIN, ARMY LINEBACKER: We're playing for something bigger than ourselves. We're playing for each other. And, you know, I think it just means a lot. There's going to be a lot of passion, a lot of emotion. But you also kind of got to block that out at times, just execute.

JACOB BUSIC, NAVY DEFENSIVE END: It means the world. It's no longer what I've been doing over the course of the season. It's now what I've done over the course of four or five years, preparing for this one game. So, it means everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: One of the best rivalries in all of American sports, John, kickoff is tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. eastern. It features some of the best and brightest this country has to offer.

BERMAN: It is one of the greatest games there is. Coy Wire, so glad you're there. Have some chowder.

Fred.

WHITFIELD: Some chowder.

All right. This morning, we're taking a look at the fascinating life of Billie Jean King, an icon, a champion, and a trailblazer in more ways than one. CNN's Dana Bash recently spoke with the legendary tennis champ about her remarkable career, relentless pursuit of equality as well.

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DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AND CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS (voiceover): She says being gay quashed any political ambitions of her own.

BASH: Your sexual orientation, that was holding you back?

BILLIE JEAN KING, TENNIS LEGEND: Oh, there's no way. Yes, it was holding me back. There's no way. Are you kidding? I wouldn't got -- I wouldn't have gotten up the bat, never mind get the first base. No way in the 1970s. Are you kidding? No way. Well, maybe I'll have to start thinking about it again. I don't know. I thought about it.

BASH: What do you know now that you wish you knew 50 years ago?

KING: I didn't know who my authentic self was, and now I do. Huge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Wow. Now we all do. We've been watching. Be sure to tune in to Billy Jean King "Being Billy Jean King", it airs Sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern and Pacific only here on CNN.

BERMAN: All right. Just seconds ago, President Biden departed the White House and he faced shouted questions about the new indictments facing his son, Hunter. Hunter Biden charged with spending millions of dollars on drugs, escorts, pornography and cars without paying taxes. We have a live report coming up.

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