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Hunter Biden Accused Of 4-Year Scheme To Evade $1.4m In Taxes; Trump Expected To Testify Again In Civil Fraud Trial On Monday; Survivors, Victims' Families Detail Devastation Of MI HS Shooting. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired December 08, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:02:32]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: President Biden just leaving the White House. Did he say anything about the new tax charges against his son, Hunter? Prosecutor saying Hunter had the money to pay taxes but chose instead to spend lavish amounts on escorts, pornography and cars.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now we're hearing wrenching statements from parents of children killed in a mass shooting. A sentencing hearing is underway. An important legal precedent could be set here.

WHITFIELD: And the backlash over how the president of the University of Pennsylvania answered a question about genocide. Now a major donor is threatening to withdraw millions of dollars as calls for her to resign intensify. I'm Fredricka Whitfield with John Berman. Kate and Sarah are off today. And this is CNN News Central.

BERMAN: All right. President Biden just left the White House a short time ago facing shouted questions about his son, Hunter Biden. We'll get that video in in just moments. Hunter, of course, now accused of a four-year tax evasion scheme that allegedly spent millions of dollars on things including drugs, escorts, exotic cars, instead of paying his taxes.

The President did not answer those shouted questions. So far, we're waiting to see if he addresses them at Joint Base Andrews as he gets ready to depart on a campaign trip. Now with a nine-count indictment, Justice Department prosecutors say Hunter Biden, quote, willfully failed to pay his 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 taxes on time despite having access to funds.

The indictment lists his alleged expenses, things he did use his funds on, nearly $700,000 for payments to various women, nearly 200,000 for adult entertainment, 71,000 for rehab, ultimately a grand total of $4.9 billion. With us now CNN's senior crime and justice reporter, Katelyn Polantz, and former Manhattan prosecutor, Jeremy Saland. Katelyn, I want to start with you first on the details of this indictment. KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, there's a lot of details here. It's a long one where the prosecutors put together quite a lot of evidence, not just about what Hunter Biden was doing with the IRS or not doing not paying his taxes, not filling out the forms correctly. Lying to them is the felony allegations here. There are three felony charges.

But they also put together the amount of money that he had -- that he had taken in as someone who had a lot of business ventures including overseas, $7 million was the amount that he had and he failed to pay $1.4 million to the IRS. Now, as they're explaining all of this in these tax charges, this is going to be a major case in California in federal court that Hunter Biden is going to contest very likely go to trial.

[11:05:23]

But the prosecutors have a lot of meat on the bones about what they want to say happened in 2018. That's when Hunter Biden, in his memoir talked about being a drug addict and where a lot of these expenses really became quite outlandish, a Lamborghini rental, luxury hotels, all kinds of things that he was doing that really, when taken together are quite shocking. And then when prosecutors are saying the felony charge here, the thing that he did wrong in that year of 2018, that is so egregious, is what he was saying to the IRS, these are business deductions. These are business expenses.

In fact, they were not. The prosecutors say they are personal expenses. You'd have to pay taxes on that money. And just to highlight one of how in depth this is, one of the pieces, $27,000 is a business deduction that he wrote down. Prosecutors say that was spent on online porn, $27,000 on online porn in 2018 from this business account that he paid it out of, that was 20 percent of all of the expenditures in that business account.

BERMAN: All right. Wow on that. And again, President Biden heading from the White House to Joint Base Andrews where he's going to leave on a campaign trip very, very shortly. We're waiting to see if he comments at Joint Base Andrews. You're looking Marine One there at the airbase. Again, we'll bring those comments to you if they happen. He will be shouted questions unpredictable with President Biden whether or how he chooses to answer them.

All right, Jeremy Saland is here. Counselor, Hunter Biden there was a plea deal in place that fell apart. If you're his attorneys, how do you respond to these charges now?

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: There's a couple arguments. The initial one, which you already have heard is that plea deal that already happened, that already transpired, that didn't ultimately go through there was an agreement that should hold. You can't turn around and charge him for this crime that he already started proceeding on with that plea deal in place. That's one of their initial arguments.

A lesser argument, although it's certainly a practical one is we're finding Hunter Biden charged with a crime that if anyone else had done it, and you know, they might have been able to work this out civilly or without prosecution, it sounds like a lot of money. And to the average person it is, but we often routinely will see these tax types of crimes charged for far greater amounts, and that this is more from a political perspective and pressure coming from the Republican House and the investigation into the president. So there's a lot of issues that are at play here.

BERMAN: And again, you're looking at live pictures of Marine One at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland, where President Biden is arriving right now. We left the White House a short time ago, he did not respond to shouted questions about the new indictments against Hunter at the White House. Will he here? It does seem unlikely. But, yes, President Biden can be unpredictable when faced with questions particularly about his family.

And Katelyn will more on the subject of President Biden here. The U.S. House of Representatives is on the verge of putting a vote to the floor to launch this impeachment inquiry. There's already inquiry underway, it doesn't have the mandate of the full House yet. Is there anything in this indictment? What 56 pages at all that is in any way adjacent to Joe Biden? Hunter Biden is not the one who's facing an impeachment inquiry here, President Joe Biden is.

POLANTZ: Right, there isn't. Joe Biden isn't in this indictment. This is about Hunter Biden and the business ventures he has. But James Comer, the chair of the House Oversight Committee, who was really trying to gain steam on this inquiry into Joe Biden has tried to make it about the foreign business of Hunter Biden and is even calling for more investigation by the Justice Department into the President, not just his son.

But what's interesting about this indictment is, it isn't just about the tax, there clearly was work that the prosecutors did to trace those payments that were coming in to Hunter Biden from these foreign business associates or clients that he and his other business partners had. And they aren't bringing a foreign lobbying case or anything that would amount to what the House wants there to be, what House Republicans want, some sort of indication of bribery or political malfeasance. It just isn't fair.

BERMAN: So what does that tell you, Counselor Jeremy, and again, as we're watching President Biden shortly, get off Marine One here. We'll listen in very carefully to see if he faces any questions. Actually, let's pause for one minute here.

He's headed to Nevada for a camping trip and also for an infrastructure event. These are the places where occasionally reporters, members of the White House pool can get questions to the President of the United States, sometimes presidents including President Biden choose to answer them, plenty of times they don't.

[11:10:18]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President. Mr. President your reaction. BERMAN: All right, that's a hard pass from the President of the United States, Joe Biden, a hard pass on answering questions. The reporters, as far as we can tell, didn't even get to the question. They were just trying to get his attention to ask a question. President Biden choosing not to answer anything about his son, Hunter, at least today, Jeremy Saland, to Katelyn Polantz point there, there are not charges on foreign lobbying or anything outside the world of tax evasion, which is a more serious charge, than he would have pleaded guilty to in the plea agreement before this is felony tax evasion, not just not paying your taxes. But the fact that there are none of the other charges here. What do you read into that?

SALAND: Well, they're sticking the four corners of the indictment are very clear. And it's a much easier case to make out. Why extrapolate? And why make this effort to find other crimes when you have fairly easy and straightforward offenses right in front of you? And the special counsel may be may or may not be getting pressure or feeling pressure from the Republican Congress. But he's trying to solely indict or has indicted solely proceed on a case against Hunter.

If ultimately, when there's a trial, and if there's a trial, it turns out that his father, meaning President Biden was involved. They're going to get that evidence the House could use later on, but the four corners of this he is trying to be clean and easy. Why create more of a mess? Why create more issues? Why make it more political? Let's stick to what we have. And I think that's why the special counsel is handling in this manner.

BERMAN: All right, Jeremy Saland and Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much to both of you. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Donald Trump says he will take the stand again, Monday, in the New York civil fraud trial against him. His attorney told reporters that she tried to dissuade the former president from testifying again while he is under a gag order. But she claims Trump insists. CNN's Kara Scannell and Kristen Holmes are joining me right now. So Kara, you first. You know, how is this going to play out?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, so Donald Trump is expected to testify on Monday. This will be his second time on the witness stand in this case, the first time he was called by the state attorney general's office to answer your questions as they line them up. This time it will be his lawyers who will be setting this up directing the questions to him, allowing him to answer the questions in a way that they want.

So he'll have more control over these questions and his answers that his lawyer did say she advised him not to testify because of this gag order. But the gag order is limited to stopping Trump from making any comments about the judge's staff that has nothing to do with the underlying accusations in this case. But as we saw the last time that Trump testified, he was turning his opportunity on the witness stand into a bit of a campaign event using a lot of the same statements.

He is used time and again criticizing the New York Attorney General who was in the courtroom also criticizing the judge who has already ruled in this case that Trump's financial statements are fraudulent. So he's sitting just a few feet from him making criticisms to the judge's face and the judge at one point trying to or telling Trump's attorney that he needs to control his client. And if you didn't the judge would. So it was a bit of a bombastic testimony at times combative.

But Trump also did answer specific questions acknowledging had a role in the financial statements, that he knew that the banks had relied on them, and that he had relied on his accountants, his lawyer saying that he's not afraid to testify and saying that he wants to clarify some manners. We'll wait to see what those matters exactly on Monday. Fred?

WHITFIELD: And Kara, I mean, Kristen rather, you know, how are Trump and his team going to navigate these court appearances, you know, especially as the election season intensifies, it ramps up?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred. I mean, this is something that they have to do. It's more of a necessity than something that they want to do. We have seen Trump appearing at these various court appearances. And just a reminder that many of the times that he has been in the courtroom during this case, he has not had to be. That will be different from the other charges that he is facing from those other trials where he will have to sit in the courtroom.

And the way his -- he and his team are navigating this is, as Kara said, really turning this into a campaign event. You see Donald Trump going to the cameras at every opportunity they have alerting the press, when they're going to be at the courthouse, messaging that's really going to crosses the line between political and legal. And it sounds a lot like what you would hear him say when he is out on the campaign trail, and that's what they're going to continue doing particularly as they believe at least one of the trials that he is facing is going to happen before the 2024 election.

[11:15:06]

Again, this is going to be a real balancing act and one that they haven't quite mastered. They still think some of these dates are going to shift. But what they can do is try to turn this into a circus, a campaign circus and hijack these cases to get the most media attention that they can.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kristen Holmes, Kara Scannell, thanks to both of you ladies. Thank you. John?

BERMAN: All right, happening now, heartbreaking impact statements, survivors and victims' families sharing the pain they experienced since the deadly shooting at a high school two years ago. The shooter is soon to be sentenced. And there's important legal precedent here.

Growing pressure for the president of the University of Pennsylvania to resign, donors threatening to withhold millions of dollars over her answers on genocide. Real questions about whether her she will survive the day in her job.

And a woman is accused of trying to burn down Martin Luther King's home, the birth -- his birthplace, how tourist helped stop him.

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WHITFIELD: All right, right now in Pontiac, Michigan, we've been watching the sentencing hearing for the teen gunman who killed four of his classmates at Oxford High School. And we've been hearing emotional testimony over the past two hours from parents and siblings of the children who were killed and survivors of the November 2021 attack. Listen.

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CRAIG SHILLING, FATHER OF JUSTIN SHILLING: The act of taking another human beings life is not only exasperating but extremely selfish and unjust. I believe that once an individual crosses the boundaries of basic humanism, and admittedly maliciously kills another person, that individual should meet the same fate.

Unfortunately, based on the laws that govern our land, this has been deemed inhumane and as widely frowned upon in modern society. So in lieu of execution, I feel strongly that the individual should never be allowed to walk among his peers again. This is why I'm going to ask you to lock this -- for the rest of his pathetic life. His blatant lack of human decency and disturbing thoughts on life in general do not in any way warrant a second chance.

My son doesn't get a second chance, and neither should he. This individual has proven by carrying out these heinous and completely unnecessary acts of violence that he should never consider -- be considered fit to rejoin the society that despises this exact behavior. His very name should be condemned, recognize only by his cowardly, vile and malicious defiance of human law.

NICOLE BEAUSOLEIL, MOTHER OF MADISYN BALDWIN: As I don't wish death upon you, that would be too easy. I hope the thoughts consume you and they replay over and over in your head. The thoughts won't stop. I'm sure you heard that paraphrase before. I hope the screams keep you up at night. And they cause real hallucinations.

You won't be able to write it on paper for the attention that you so badly seek. Those four walls become your home suffocating in guilt. It will come, I promise you. I'm happy you decided not to be a coward that day and take your own life. I'd much rather you stick around to see what the life you have chosen for, what suffering really feels like. And that your significance is not above anyone else. I truly feel sorry for you that you thought this would be a better life choice.

REINA ST. JULIANA, SISTER OF HANA ST. JULIANA: Well either remember when you're 14, can you even? It's such a young age. I want you to think about everything that came after 14. Everything Hana doesn't ever get to experience. She was not supposed to be shot and killed not even three months after starting her first year of high school. She was supposed to grow old just as we all are right now. Experience the beauty of life, not feel its cruelty. The least that can be done for Hana is for it to be rolled life without parole. There is no justice that will ever be enough.

STEVE ST. JULIANA, FATHER OF HANA ST. JULIANA: Every day is a battle to attempt to move forward or struggle to get out of bed to go through the motions of everyday life while pretending that things are getting better. Simple everyday sights and actions bring pain as I think of what it should have been like with Hana there with us. I think of all the good times that we've shared together as a family and mourn all the memories that will never be.

I will never think back fondly of her high school and college graduations. I will never walk her down the aisle as she begins the journey of starting her own family. I am forever denied the chance to hold her or her future children in my arms.

KYLIE OSSEGE, SURVIVED OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING: Hana and I were left in utter loneliness. And I thought I was dying. I kept repeating my mom's phone number to make sure my brain was functioning. I was creating math problems in my head and solving them to make sure I wasn't dying. I continue to yell for help, 15 may -- 15 minutes of lying there absolutely helpless, 15 minutes of lying in a pool of my own blood, 15 minutes of hearing Hana St. Juliana's last sounds while stroking her hair and trying to encourage her.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[11:25:24]

WHITFIELD: Well, soon, the judge will decide the shooters fate if he gets life in prison without parole, or if he gets an opportunity to get out one day. I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Joey Jackson. I mean, those are some powerful statements.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, yes.

WHITFIELD: Ordinarily impact statements, do they make a difference in sentencing? Or do you see that, you know, this one --

JACKSON: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- is very unique.

JACKSON: You know, so good morning Fredricka. It's very unique, of course, whenever you have an instance like this that's affected so many at a school, you know, we talk about those issues, and we talk about them too much. But victim impact statements are important always. And yes, I do think that they influence a judge. Why? Because you have today, there's three real imperatives for today.

The first and the victims impact statement is you're going to want to talk about the victim and who they were, what their life meant, what was the value, and all they meant to so many. The second thing is how you as a family have been impacted by the emptiness and the absence of the person whose life was taken far too soon. And then the third thing, Fredricka, goes to the issue of accountability. And clearly these, you know, victims are -- they're just they're going through so much emotionally. And I think they want accountability. And I don't believe, Fredricka, that that's lost on the judge at all. So I do think it'll move the needle with respect to what the judge ultimately does.

WHITFIELD: And it's impacted an entire community.

JACKSON: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Not just the Oxford High School community and the family members. But this is also a unique case, because it's the first time a U.S. school shooter has also been charged with terrorism charges.

JACKSON: Right.

WHITFIELD: So, you know, the gravity is just very heavy here. What are some of the considerations that the judge is making, in terms of whether it should be life with parole or without?

JACKSON: Yes, so great question Fredricka. And in terms of the terrorism, I think the prosecutor has gone ahead and said, to your point that this has affected all of us, and it affected every child that was in that school that day, when you look at the judge's determination, there's also three things the judge will consider. Whenever you look at sentencing, you're looking at punishment, you're looking at deterrence, and you're looking at rehabilitation.

And so the judge has to fashion what is the appropriate punishment in this particular case. When you look at deterrence, not only to deter the individual, but others who might even consider and think about the acceptability of doing this, what message do I want to send. On the issue of rehabilitation, the judge largely considered that issue at that pre hearing and just very briefly, Fredricka, there was a pre hearing because he was 15 at the time he engaged in this horrific act.

And so the Supreme Court outlawed mandatory life sentences without parole for minors, there had to be a hearing at which the judge determined, you are irreconcilably corrupt, and you are not a person who can be rehabilitated. So those are the core factors the court will consider.

WHITFIELD: And even once there's a sentencing here, this is not over. His parents --

JACKSON: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- have been in jail for a year facing charges in connection with this horrific shooting. The outcome of this case will impact their cases how?

JACKSON: Yes, you know, Fredricka, that's such a great point. And I think also the prosecutor said I had enough. And as it relates to that, I'm not only going to hold your son accountable, but I'm going to hold you as the parents accountable. So what we're going to see is a trial for the parents coming up in January of next year. And the issue is going to be involuntary manslaughter.

What does that mean? It means you didn't have to pull the trigger. Were you careless? Were you on notice of signs of your son's distress mentally? Did he not write to you indicating that I'm paranoid, that I'm hallucinating? And because you knew that what steps if any did you take to help him and then to put a gun in his hand to purchase a gun under those circumstances?

So the prosecutor has said, I'm taking you to court, parents, they have tried to get out from under it, right?

WHITFIELD: Right.

JACKSON: But the courts in Michigan have said, you know what, you're very much going to stand trial. It's going to be up to a jury to determine whether you're guilty.

WHITFIELD: Boy. A lot of pain here. All right, we're going to continue to monitor the impact statements coming from victims and family members there in Pontiac, Michigan. Joey Jackson, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: John?

BERMAN: All right, breaking news, just moments ago, six members of Congress from Pennsylvania call for the President of the University of Pennsylvania to resign this after comments she made answer she gave about genocide. Will she survive the day in her job?

[11:29:58]

In just the last hour, the IDF has responded to questions about images of large groups of detainees stripped down and blindfolded in Gaza. Israel says they are members of Hamas or suspected members of Hamas.