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Pro-Trump Lawyer Cooperating In Fake Elector Probes; Trump Expected To Testify Monday In Civil Fraud Trial; Hunter Biden Faces 9 Counts Alleging Tax Evasion & More. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 08, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:01:01]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hunter Biden facing felony charges. The President's son is accused of a scheme to avoid paying at least $1.4 million in taxes. We'll break down the latest indictment and how he's responding to it. And we're following the sentencing hearing for the Michigan high school shooter. Dozens of heartbreaking victim impact statements being read in court detailing the hell that survivors and the victims' families have been through.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And amid threats from donors to pull money, emergency meetings among top officials are now growing calls from lawmakers to resign, UPenn's president is not budging at least so far. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: We begin with President Biden's son, Hunter, indicted again. And this time he is facing the most serious allegations yet. Three felony charges alleged tax evasion and fraud among the nine federal charges which accuse him of avoiding more than a million dollars in taxes. President Biden is not part of any of the charges against his son, we should note. The 56 page indictment says that between 2016 and October 15 of 2020 Hunter Biden, quote, "Spent this money on drugs, escorts and girlfriends, luxury hotels and rental properties, exotic cars, clothing and other items of a personal nature," in short, everything but his taxes.

The new charges add to the fallout from the collapse plea bargain that Hunter Biden initially had with federal prosecutors that fell apart in July.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, we need comments on the new charges against your son. Mr. President.

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KEILAR: Today, President Biden declining to respond to his son's latest legal troubles, but he did say this back in May.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My son has done nothing wrong. I trust him. I have faith in him. And practice my presidency by making me feel proud of him.

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KEILAR: We have CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paul Reid who is tracking all of this for us. Paula, tell us more about this indictment.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Remember, this case was supposed to be resolved with a plea deal where the president's son would have pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors. He is now facing nine counts including three felonies. And in this 56 page indictment, prosecutors included a lot of embarrassing details about what they say he spent his money on instead of paying his taxes on time. That includes 100s of 1000s of dollars to various women, nearly $200,000 on adult entertainment, as well as 10s of 1000s of dollars on drugs and rehab. The President's on has of course, been very open about his substance abuse issues.

In a statement, his attorney Abbe Lowell said that if Hunter Biden's name was anything other than Hunter Biden, that he would not be facing these criminal cases in Delaware and California. Now something else that might not happen if your last name wasn't Biden, a short time ago before this indictment in the past few months, Hunter Biden sat down with Moby for his podcast to talk about how he feels about all of this. Let's take a listen to what he said.

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HUNTER BIDEN, SON OF PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: They are trying to, in the in their most illegitimate way, but rational way, they're trying to destroy a presidency. And so, it's not about me, and their most base way, what they're trying to do is they're trying to kill me, knowing that it will be a pain greater than my father could be able to handle.

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REID: Now I want to reiterate that interview was recorded before this most recent indictment. But with these charges, he could face a maximum sentence of 17 years. Now it's rare that anyone gets the maximum sentence, and his lawyers are confident though if this case goes to trial they believe they will win because they say look especially when someone pays back their taxes as Hunter Biden did here with 100s of 1000s of dollars in fees and penalties, these cases are not brought. They argue it's politically motivated, and they will prevail at trial. And right now it's unclear when he will make his first appearance in federal court.

[13:05:18]

KEILAR: All right, Paula, thank you for the latest on that, obviously a huge development. Boris. SANCHEZ: Now to a CNN exclusive, pro-Trump lawyer, Kenneth Chesebro, who helped devise the 2020 fake electoral scheme is now cooperating with investigators in Michigan and Wisconsin. Sources tell us that Chesebro is hoping to avoid more criminal charges after he pleaded guilty to conspiracy in Georgia. CNN's Marshall Cohen joins us now.

And Marshall, that makes at least four states where Chesebro is helping investigators. What more are you learning?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: This really shows the transformation of Ken Chesebro from a conspirator in 2020 to a cooperator today. So, Boris, we knew that he was already helping state investigators in Georgia and Nevada. The development here is that that cooperation has expanded. He is also helping investigators in Michigan and Wisconsin. This is the first indication of a criminal investigation in Wisconsin.

And that means that six of the seven states that the Trump campaign targeted in 2020 now have investigations. Most famously Georgia, of course, with the racketeering case against Trump and so many others where Chesebro pleaded guilty. Also earlier this week in Nevada, they charged the fake electors there. And now, this also makes it clear that the investigation in Michigan where they charged the fake electors in July, clearly it's ramping up. It's -- at least it's still active sources myself and our colleague Zach Cohen, and Chesebro's cooperation is a big part of that.

SANCHEZ: So, Marshall, walk us through how this fits into the context of the federal election subversion case, the one being brought on by Special Counsel Jack Smith.

COHEN: Jack Smith charged Donald Trump and Donald Trump only. And he basically said that Trump had many different attempts and schemes to overturn the election, the fake electors being one part of a multi- pronged attempt. But Jack Smith went right to the top, he charged Donald Trump. These state cases clearly are going to the people on the ground, the fake electors, Republican activists and others, GOP county chairs and things like that in these states who actually sign the certificates, the false certificates and participated in the scheme.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we'll see how Chesebro winds up contributing to those investigations. Marshall Cohen, thank you so much.

Brianna.

KEILAR: In New York, the former president is preparing to take the stands -- in stand in a high stakes civil fraud trial against him and his real estate company. And this is coming despite his own attorneys' advice not to testify.

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ALINA HABBA, TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: He's still wants to take the stand. Even though my advice is, at this point, you should never take the stand with a gag order, but he is so firmly against what is happening in this court.

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KEILAR: CNN's Kara Scannell is live outside of the courthouse with more on this.

Kara, what should we be expecting?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, as you say Donald Trump will be taking the stand on Monday and this will be the first time he is questioned by his own attorneys. The last time he testified in this case, he was questioned by the New York Attorney General's Office as he set the tone and tenor of the questions. This time, it will be his lawyers' opportunity to ask the questions and give him, the former president, an opportunity to respond to them in a way that he wants to. I mean the last time he was on the stand, it was fairly combative. Trump used it as an opportunity to essentially become a campaign stop. He was criticizing the investigation.

He criticized the New York attorney general who was in the room and even criticized the judge who was already found that Trump's financial statements are fraudulent. That judge sitting just a few feet from him on the bench. So this time around, it will be Trump's team opportunity to present what they want him to say. And his attorney Alina Habba yesterday saying that Trump is not afraid to testify and saying that he will provide some clarity, speaking more about the loans that the banks had given him. So, I expect we'll hear both a lot of substance in his testimony, but also likely some more of his campaign speeches. And that's why his lawyer is saying she didn't think he should testify because of the gag order.

This gag order is very narrow. It just limits Trump from speaking about the judge's clerk. But that goes into Trump's argument, this is not a fair trial. So it's expected that we will hear some more of that as well on Monday. Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. We'll be looking for that. Kara Scannell live for us from New York.

Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's dig deeper on all of this with former federal prosecutor, Seth Waxman.

Seth, there's a lot to get to. Thanks so much for being with us. We heard there from Alina Habba, the attorney for President Trump saying that she counseled him not to take the stand, especially under a gag order. Should he testify? What are you anticipating?

SETH WAXMAN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, we have to remember this is a civil case. So, if there were really criminal charges that can be brought in the background. You, of course, as an attorney have a huge concern that your testimony could be used against you criminally in a future case. Now, it's not likely that there's a criminal case going to stem from this, but with Mr. Trump, look, putting him on the stand is always a huge risk.

[13:10:15] SANCHEZ: As we've seen him outside the courtroom multiple times, he has a tendency to be very boisterous, and potentially push the envelope with the judge and others involved in the case. I want to pivot from one presidential family on trial to another presidential matter, presidential legal matter. And that is Hunter Biden. He's facing nine new charges tied to tax fraud, allegations of tax fraud. These appear to be significantly more severe than what was in the plea agreement that fell apart over the summer, no?

WAXMAN: Sure, they certainly are. And this past summer, he was facing two misdemeanors in all likelihood, he would not have gone to jail, he would have moved on with his life. This new indictment, far more serious. The thing that gives me pause about this indictment is that Hunter Biden has paid back the money with penalties. So it's a question of prosecutorial discretion, should a case like this be brought given that the IRS has been made whole. And again, different people can reach a different conclusion on that.

SANCHEZ: Yes, prosecutors argue that though he paid the money back he lied multiple times to the IRS, and how do you think that plays out in a courtroom?

WAXMAN: Well, it's not a defense that you paid it back. So, certainly, if you don't file your tax returns correctly, you lie about your taxes, you can be found guilty of a crime. And the fact that you paid it back later, really is irrelevant. It's really more of a question of prosecutorial discretion. Does a prosecutor want to do this?

SANCHEZ: He does face a maximum penalty of 17 years in prison. How likely is it that he gets the max?

WAXMAN: No, not likely at all. I mean, there's sentencing guidelines, it would likely be much, much less than that. But still, it could involve a prison sentence, which is, of course, serious.

SANCHEZ: Republicans in the House have argued that he's been involved in all sorts of illicit and appropriate foreign business dealings. He's been investigated for those now for more than five years. This wasn't -- that wasn't in this new indictment, right? So, what does that tell you?

WAXMAN: Well, what it tells me first is that this prosecutor may be trying to bring a very narrow case. So he feels like he has the facts to prove beyond a reasonable doubt tax fraud. So why complicate things? Why bring in extraneous, other types of charges that could confuse a jury? Let's just stick to the tight facts and get a conviction.

SANCHEZ: Notably, Hunter has been subpoenaed by Congress. They've essentially asked him to show up for a closed door deposition next week or face a contempt of Congress charge. If you were advising him, would you tell him to show up?

WAXMAN: Well, no, not at this point. Clearly, he has the right to plead the fifth, he always has had that right. There's been a debate on -- between him in Congress as to whether he would appear in public or him behind closed doors. For me as a defense lawyer, you know, that would take all that off the table. I would not have him go in.

SANCHEZ: Yes, his argument is that House Republicans would potentially use select portions of his testimony against him and take them out of context.

Seth Waxman, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate the perspective. Sorry. Thanks, of course.

Still plenty more news to come on News Central, including growing pressure on the president of UPenn to resign with donors threatening to withhold millions of dollars. All of this after her congressional testimony on anti-Semitism that's led to outrage from both parties.

Also ahead, we're following the heartbreaking victim impact statements at the sentencing hearing for the gunman in the Oxford High School shooting.

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REINA ST. JULIANA, SISTER OF SHOOTING VICTIM HANA ST. JULIANA: I am so sorry Hana for leaving that building that day, that is that is in forever will be my biggest mistake and my biggest regret. I'm sorry that I cannot make you feel even a fraction of the world without Hana. If I could, the shooter would be dead. A creature who left Hana lie on her own pool of blood, crying in pain who went to go shoot her again, does not deserve to take another breath.

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KEILAR: Tears, anger, and yes, even forgiveness, a wide range of emotions playing out today in a Pontiac Michigan courtroom where school shooter Ethan Crumbley will soon be sentenced. But first the judge is hearing victim impact statements. Here are just a few examples from parents of the four victims, Hana St. Juliana, Justin Shilling, Tate Myre and Madisyn Baldwin.

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NICOLE BEAUSOLEIL, MADIYSN BALDWIN'S MOTHER: To the waste that took my daughter's life that name will never come out of my mouth. That life will cease to exist to me and just like trash, it will be forgotten thing.

BUCK MYRE, TATE MYRE'S FATHER: That stands out to me was what my wife said, she put her head in her hands and said, not my baby boy.

CRAIG SHILLING, JUSTIN SHILLING'S FATHER: There are no words that can accurately describe the pain that we feel on a daily basis. I have PTSD and struggle most days even get out of bed. Anxiety, stress, sleepless nights and uncontrolled emotional heartbreaks make even the simplest and most normal things difficult. JILL SOAVE, JUSTIN SHILLING'S MOTHER: If you were that lonely, that miserable that lost, and you really needed a friend, Justin would have been your friend if you had only asked.

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KEILAR: We have CNN's Jean Casarez who is following this for us. Those were some of the parents, Jean. I know you've also heard from siblings, from students, from teachers who were there, that very traumatic day. Tell us what you're seeing in that courtroom.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brianna, this is the first time that we've really heard from these family members, from the survivors, from those that were at the school that day because they have come time and time again during the hearings of this prosecution. I've watched them in the courtroom, they stay silent, but this is their day, even though it is the formal sentencing of the defendant in this case.

[13:20:18]

And I think the themes that we are seeing from them are to the commonalities. First of all, the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, many have been professionally diagnosed. We're hearing that they are afraid to go out afraid of being shot, afraid of something happening, have to run out of buildings. And we're also hearing another thing they are all asking, begging this judge to sentence the defendant to life without any possibility of parole, which is on the table. I want you to listen to a little bit more of the survivors, their families as they speak. First, Steve St. Juliana, his daughter was murdered on that day.

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STEVE ST. JULIANA, HANA ST. JULIANA FATHER: There can be no forgiveness. There can be no rehabilitation. There is absolutely nothing that the defendant can ever do to earn my forgiveness. His age plays no part. His potential is irrelevant.

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CASAREZ: There is a very important constitutional aspect of his sentencing. Also, in fact, in legal documents, it says that this sentencing is a case of first impression for the entire country. The reason is, in 2012, the U.S. Supreme Court in Miller versus Alabama ruled that for a minor, a juvenile, the sentence of life without any possibility of parole is excessive, except for the worst offender. Since 2012, there have been juveniles previously that were sentenced to life without any possibility parole, so they have been resentenced, as per the requirements of the U.S. Supreme Court. But the defendant in this courtroom here in Michigan, is the first one to ever be originally sentenced to life with or without the possibility of parole.

And as the judge said this summer at the Miller hearing, it's difficult because we don't really know if he can be rehabilitated, because he wasn't sentenced before, he has just been in jail pending the outcome of the current case. So it makes it in a sense more difficult, more for the defense to work with, the possibility that there will be rehabilitation. But across the board, the people speaking today do not want him to get out.

KEILAR: Yes, he was only 15 when this happened. And obviously that raises many legal questions.

These victim impact statements that we're hearing so difficult, you feel just the weight of what these families have dealt with every minute since they lost their loved ones. The judge can consider these, right, when it comes to aggravating and mitigating factors? Explain this.

CASAREZ: Absolutely, the judge has to look at this. And two things that strike me because I've been involved in so many sentences before, first of all, this judge is allowing them to speak directly to the defendant. Some judges do not, they only allow them to address the court. Second of all, when they finished their victim impact statement, I actually have never seen this before, Judge Kwame actually turns to them, the ones that have spoken and talks to them about their loved ones, and what they did on this earth and the beautifulness of their lives, and that I've never seen before, but he will take this into consideration. He will also look at the aggravating and mitigating factors.

The fact that he was a juvenile is a mitigating factor, the fact of his home life with his parents, and that was a very rough upbringing, according to the facts that we have in the record as evidence. But he planned this in his journal, he asked his father to get a gun for him knowing that he wanted to commit a mass murder. And the fact that he wrote in his journal, you know, it's just in me, I can't help myself, and I'm not sure if I want to be a mass murderer or if I want to be a serial killer, but I think I'll do -- be a mass murderer at this point and I'm going to kill the prettiest girl first, the girl that has a future.

KEILAR: Horrific. But we're hearing the impact. You know, these shootings happen again and again. And as we hear these parents, it is a reminder of what all of these parents, all of these family members go through.

Jean, thank you so much. We appreciate the report.

We'll be right back.

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[13:29:23]

SANCHEZ: The calls to resign are growing louder for officials at some of the United States most prestigious college campuses. A short time ago CNN learned that Rabbi David Wolpe, a member of Harvard's anti- Semitism Advisory Board has resigned. And there's no pressure on University of Pennsylvania President Liz Magill, after her disastrous testimony on Capitol Hill this week. In case you missed it, Magill, along with presidents from Harvard and MIT refused to outright condemn anti-Semitism on their campuses and the genocide of Jews, despite several shocking incidents at their schools since Israel's war with Hamas began two months ago. Listen to this exchange

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REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): I am asking specifically, calling for the genocide of Jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment?