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IA Poll: Trump Holds 32-Point GOP Lead 35 Days Ahead Of Caucuses; Giuliani Arrives For Jury Selection In His Defamation Trial; Trump Decides At Last Minute Not To Testify At Civil Fraud Trial Today. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 11, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRONNY JAMES, UNIV. OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GUARD: I just want to say I'm thankful for everything. Mayo Clinic everything they helped me with my parents, siblings supporting me through this is hard time of my life. Also my coach, my teammates, other coaches who've been with me since the start. And yes just want to be -- I just want to say I'm thankful for them.

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PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Obviously a proud moment for any parent. Best of luck to Bronny and Trojans for rest of the season unless you're a UCLA grad. You probably don't agree with that.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It's great to see him back on the car (ph). Thank you for starting, fight on, is what they told me in my -- your week with us. CNN News Central is now. See you tomorrow.

Is that the route? Is that the --

[09:00:47]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump dominating right now. This is the picture being painted from new polling out this morning. Polling in Georgia, polling in Michigan and in Iowa.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Will the President of Harvard be forced out of her job for what she said about genocide before Congress? Major developments expected before the end of the day.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And a trail of destruction in Tennessee, six people are dead after multiple tornadoes ripped through the northern and central parts of the state including the Nashville area. One of those tornadoes traveling more than 40 miles on the ground. We're following these major developments -- developing stories, rather, and many more all coming in right now right here to CNN News Central.

BOLDUAN: This morning, there is some new insight into where the presidential race stands right now and also where it may be headed with new CNN polling out this morning from two key battleground states. Donald Trump is leading President Biden in both in Georgia, Trump has a five point lead in Michigan in this hypothetical matchup, Trump is now a 10 point edge. Biden won both states in 2020. Yes, still a hypothetical matchup, still need to get through the primaries.

As for the more immediate focus then and more immediate concern for Trump's Republican rivals, new numbers are just coming in from Iowa as well. Now 35 days to the Iowa caucuses, Donald Trump is holding a 32 point lead. So important perspective on that. In the history of Des Moines Register polling, that is the largest lead that any Republican has held this close to the caucuses.

So how does this current state of the race impact the campaigns? We will see. Donald Trump for his part off the trail today and also not going to be in a courtroom as previously scheduled. Last night, he made a last minute decision to not testify as the final star witness in the civil fraud trial against him in New York. Fred.

WHITFIELD: Indeed. This morning, Donald Trump is not heading to his civil fraud trial like he was scheduled to be doing about right now. He scrapped the plans unexpectedly. In a last minute post yesterday writing he, quote, "Already testified to everything and has nothing more to say." The reversal also came after he doubled down on his dictator remarks at a dinner in New York City. CNN's Kristen Holmes joining us right now with more on all of this.

Kristen, no court today, more dictator to hawk and now more polling momentum. What are you hearing from that team?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Decision for him not to testify. His lawyers had been pushing back on the idea that he would show up in court. And it seems like they won out on that and Donald Trump decided not to actually take the stand but this is far from the end of his legal troubles. And when I talked to his team, what they're really trying to figure out now is how to navigate these various upcoming trials, including the one here in D.C., where he is charged with trying to overturn the 2020 election, which is slated to happen in March, which really will be the peak of primary season. So they're trying to figure out how to navigate that.

Now, as you look here, this is I want to show you, this calendar here in January, look at all of the dates here. This is what we're starting to see. This election season is ramping up. He is expected to travel at least two total weeks here between New Hampshire and Iowa leading into that caucus and then that primary. Again, legal troubles aren't over and they're still going to be discovered. He's still going to be needing to meet with various lawyers, that is going to impact how far out he can plan his travel.

And one thing to pay attention to, and I know that you noted this, as his polling numbers go up, as he seems to be getting more support from the Republican Party, he's also ramping up his rhetoric, including mentioning that dictator comment one more time over the weekend at an event in New York. Take a listen.

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DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Dictator for one day, but the "New York Times" said -- and you know why I wanted to be a dictator because I want a wall. Right? I want a wall and I want it drill, drill, drill.

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[09:05:04]

HOLMES: One thing just to point out here is that this was an answer saying that he wanted to be a dictator for a day. When he was asked by an ally, Sean Hannity, over and over again that if he were to be reelected, would he abuse power? And instead of answering directly, he deflected and said that he would be a dictator for a day. And as we have seen as his poll numbers continue to go up as it seems to be inching towards the nomination, that question was a response to a number of anti-Trump Republicans and Democrats who said that if Trump were to be reelected again, that they would -- they believed that he would be a dictator or abuse power. And again, when he was asked that directly, he deflected and now it seems that he's doubling down on that line, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk more about the new polling coming in this morning. The picture that it paints. Harry Enten is here.

Harry, we have the new CNN polling out of Georgia and Michigan. But let's start with the most immediate. How Republican caucus goers in Iowa are feeling? I mean, we're 35 ish days out from that big contest. What do you see in this?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I mean, look, I see Donald Trump a dominant front runner, you know, he's over 50 percent of the vote. Look, 45 percent plus in Iowa during the December for the caucuses, he's one of only five to ever reach that point. Ronald Reagan is the only other candidate who was at 50 percent of the vote plus. So when you're talking about history, we're talking about Donald Trump being matched by only one other candidate. Mondale, Gore Clinton all won those caucuses. Interestingly enough, Reagan lost the Iowa caucuses back in '80, so it's not quite over yet.

But there's another reason to believe that Trump's lead is solid. Mind made up. Look at this 70 percent of Trump backers say their mind is made up. Compare that to just 34 percent of Haley backers in Iowa, and just 30 percent of DeSantis backers in Iowa. And when you put it all together, Kate, what you see as a candidate polling much higher than pretty much anyone ever has an Iowa --

BOLDUAN: Yes.

ENTEN: -- and a candidate whose backers say they are very much behind him.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Where's the softness in that support? You're really not seeing it in Iowa. OK. Let's -- let me ask you then about hypothetical matchup between Trump and Biden in the very key states of Georgia and Michigan. What do you see in that?

ENTEN: Yes, what do I see here? I think that this is a big, big problem for Joe Biden in the center of the electorate. This is Independents who back Biden over Trump. In Georgia and Michigan in 2020, the majority of independents back Biden over Trump. Look at now, look at 2023 just 35 percent of Independents backing him in Georgia, just 30 percent in the state of Michigan. You can't win with those types of numbers if you're Joe Biden. Losing that support in the center of the electorate, it's not just on his far left, which I think a lot of people are focusing on, it's really in the center of the electorate where Joe Biden is losing a lot of support.

Let me just put this some more historical context. Michigan polls where Trump led Biden, the entire 2020 cycle, there were zero, Kate, zero, not a single one. In the 2024 cycle, so far, we're already at two polls. So this gives you an indication that these polls are very different than they were back in 2020. This is a much stronger Trump candidacy at this point. Whether or not that holds, I don't know if we know the answer to that.

BOLDUAN: And that's the thing, right? And when we're talking hypothetical, voters haven't gone to the polls in any contest quite yet. Historically speaking, this can shift in a big way. People are talking about how Barack Obama, at this point, you know, in the -- at this point he was behind in polling and then of course he pulled it out.

ENTEN: I think the one thing I will point out is this contest, you have 11 months ago. If you look in Iowa, you really only have one month to go. Yes, caucus polling can shift, yes, Ronald Reagan lost his lead in 1980, but the fact is, he still went on to win the nomination. And here's the other thing, Kate, it's not just Iowa, it's New Hampshire, it's South Carolina, it's National. Trump has a dominantly than the caucuses and primaries so far. Maybe something will change, but I'm not seeing at this point.

BOLDUAN: And what you're also saying is we've heard a little bit of is the whole idea of like strengthening the alternative with consolidating the field. You're not seeing that, you're seeing Donald Trump gaining space -- strength as a Republican field is narrowing.

ENTEN: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: And that's exactly where I'm going to pick up. With us now is Seung Min Kim, CNN Political Analyst and White House reporter for the Associated Press. And Seung Min, I want to read a quote from Ann Selzer who does the Des Moines Register poll, this new poll out a short time ago showing Donald Trump is 51 percent support. And Selzer says, the field may have shrunk, but it may have made Donald Trump even stronger than he was. I would call his lead commanding. There's not much benefit of fewer candidates for either Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley. The shrinking field not helping the opposition to Trump.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, the strategy behind the non-Trump candidates has been the thought that perhaps you could, you know, consolidate the vote by everyone dropping out, everyone aligning behind one candidate. That's what you're hearing a lot from Republican officials who don't want Trump to be their nominee. But you see from at least a Des Moines Register poll that that is not happening. So since the last major poll --

[09:10:11]

BERMAN: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They asked me if you -- if they would --

KIM: And you would think that maybe, you know, getting a fewer, fewer non Trump candidates would help the other -- someone else in the race. But yes, Trump is getting stronger here. And I think the only major bright spot for you know, either Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley, from the Des Moines Register poll is that about 46 percent of caucus goers. Still haven't made up -- likely caucus goers to make up their minds and take away that support for Donald Trump. But as Harry rightly pointed out, I mean, this is a commanding lead that Donald Trump has right now.

And it's unclear whether DeSantis or Haley or anyone else will be able to make that up in the next four weeks.

BERMAN: To that point of minds being made up though, as Harry pointed out, you know, 70 percent of Donald Trump's voters, and Trump is at 51 percent, most of Trump's voters have made up their minds. In other words, they're sticking with him while DeSantis and Haley only a third of their voters say they're going to stick with them. The issue of electability is a major calling card, particularly for Nikki Haley. Now, in this poll, the question of, do you believe Trump can win against Biden, the idea of electability for Donald Trump, it's getting better for him. In October just 65 percent said that they felt that Donald Trump could beat Joe Biden, now with 73 percent. So maybe that argument that Trump can't beat Biden, voters don't see it like that anymore.

KIM: Right. And that's actually the only major argument that Haley and DeSantis are making against Donald Trump right now. If you look at their comments from over the past weekend, campaigning in Iowa, that was their main criticisms primarily of Donald Trump. They keep pointing out over and over that in a general election where you do have independent voters, you have obviously Democrats voting in the race, that Donald Trump cannot win another national election, but obviously polls right now, bear that perhaps not to be true. And again, we are a year out from the election.

You know, there's plenty of time for voters' minds to change and these head to head matchups, clearly. But right now, if the election were today, the numbers don't look good for, you know, not only President Biden but also for that argument from his -- from Donald Trump's other challengers that he can't win a national race. Because according to this polling, according to, you know, the CNN polls out today in Georgia and Michigan, these two critical swing states in a general election, Donald Trump certainly can win again.

BERMAN: If you are Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley, particularly in Iowa, what you're trying to do is figure out where those votes might be, that can help you gain against Donald Trump. In one of those areas is first time voters, people who've never voted in a caucus before, right? Those people who may not have been old enough last time, the problem is that among first time caucus goers, the new voters this time around, Donald Trump is trouncing them, he's at 63 percent among first time caucus goers with DeSantis and Haley at 12 and 11. How do you explain that?

KIM: It's -- it was one of the most fascinating results from that poll. So it appears that Donald Trump is attracting, you know, perhaps a younger caucus goers who would be obviously first time voters in the sense and bringing out people who perhaps chose to sat out in the previous contests. And it all just speaks to, I don't want to say inevitability because nothing is inevitable at this stage, but it just shows this commanding lead that may be insurmountable for any of his challengers. In the next several weeks till the caucuses in the next several months through the through the campaign caught through the primary campaign season.

BERMAN: Yes, it's hard to figure out where Haley and DeSantis go in Iowa to find these votes. They do have a month left to figure it out.

Seung Min Kim, thank you very much for that.

Kate.

KIM: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, Rudy Giuliani heading to court to find out just how much the lies he pushed in Georgia, especially about two Georgia election workers. How much it will cost him? And hundreds of Harvard faculty members are throwing their support behind the university's president. This is pressure is mounting for her to resign over that disastrous congressional testimony and questions about genocide.

And with billions of dollars in aid on the line, President Biden has invited the Ukrainian president to the White House. We'll be hosting him tomorrow. Can President Zelenskyy win over Republican lawmakers? We'll be back.

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[09:19:05] BOLDUAN: All right, we have video in from just moments ago showing Rudy Giuliani arriving to a federal courthouse in Washington, D.C. Why he's doing that? That's because jury selection is underway right now in the federal defamation trial against Rudy Giuliani. Donald Trump's former attorney has been sued by two Georgia -- for two former Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and her daughter Shaye Moss, you may remember them, you should remember them. The judge here has already found Giuliani liable for defaming them. They say that he essentially ruined their lives when Giuliani falsely accused them of tampering with ballots during the 2020 election.

This was all part of Giuliani's efforts to help Donald Trump overturn Trump's 2020 election loss in the state. CNET's Katelyn Polantz joining us now with much more on this.

Katelyn, what is at stake here? As we know, the jury selection is underway. What's at stake here for Rudy Giuliani?

[09:20:05]

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Kate, there is the potential that Rudy Giuliani could face a staggering amount of that he will have to pay these two women. Let's just start with that what they're asking for from this jury. So because Rudy Giuliani said many things about them that the judge has already found he is liable for, he did defame them, he was claiming that they were switching votes as they counted ballots, it just wasn't true. And they faced a significant harassment because of how far those messages were sent from Rudy Giuliani.

The amounts are asking for reputational damage alone, they're asking this jury to find -- to award them between 15.5 and $43 million. On top of that, they want the jury to award them payment for the emotional distress that they -- that he had caused them after the election, not just him, either Donald Trump as well, the Trump campaign, everyone who was putting forward what Giuliani was saying and repeating those things. And then on top of that, they're asking for what's called punitive damages, that is punishment. The punishment for his outrageous conduct, and an amount of money that would deter Rudy Giuliani and others from doing something like this in the future to them or other people. And so, all of that put together could be an enormous amount of money that Giuliani already is saying he doesn't even have a few $100,000 to pay them for attorney's fees that they've been awarded.

And so, that alone is significant. On top of that, this is going to be an episode in court where we see in this federal court in Washington the real harm that took place after the election to these two women. Giuliani is expected to testify for himself if Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss's attorneys don't call him first to the stand. They also are going to be taking the stand to testify and we're going to be hearing clips of testimony, recorded video testimony of others who were working with Donald Trump at the Trump campaign and Rudy Giuliani after the 2020 elections. So, an episode, a mini trial of all that is very likely to be tried again in criminal cases against Donald Trump and others. BOLDUAN: And two people who not only say that they were truly harmed by the lives toll that a judge has found, they were as well. Katelyn, thank you very much.

Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, joining me right now for more on all this, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.

All right, Elie, wow, those are some big figures. I'm still stunned by that.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

WHITFIELD: I mean, you know, so the judges already found the former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani liable for defamation. And now it's about rendering what's going to be the penalty a jury is going to make that decision.

HONIG: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Jury selection beginning. What are the challenges of seating a jury for one of perhaps the most -- one of the most famous politicians in this country?

HONIG: That's a great question. How do you see the jury when everyone knows Rudy Giuliani? And by the way, we're going to see a bigger version of this in a few months when Donald Trump goes to trial criminal case there, this is a civil case.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HONIG: The answer is first of all, you do not need to find a whole pool of jurors who've never heard of Rudy Giuliani, ideally, you would like that, but that's impossible here. What you have to do, what they'll ask the jurors starting today is do you have any predetermined views on this case that would prevent you from ruling fairly based solely on the evidence you hear in court? Now the jurors will answer, some of them might say, no, I despise the guy, could ever give him a fair trial. Some people might say, I really admire him, and I would rule in his favor. But as a lawyer, you have to use your common sense, do I believe this juror, and then you have the ability to eliminate certain jurors if you think they are bias.

So, the goal is not to get people who've never heard of Rudy Giuliani, the goal is to get people who can be fair.

WHITFIELD: What's going to be the process here? Because we're talking about 15.5 to $43 million, potentially in damages. What are some of the things that the jurors are going to hear or have to weigh?

HONIG: Yes. So, we're in a sort of unusual posture here because Rudy Giuliani's team has already agreed stipulated that his comments were defamatory. He said he's not going to contest that. That's why we jump right over into the damages phase. So the jury is going to hear evidence, almost like a trial, a mini trial, they will certainly, I would assume hear from Ms. Moss and Miss Freeman, the plaintiffs here, about how their lives were upended. We got a sense of that.

WHITFIELD: A big taste of that when they were --

HONIG: They testified --

WHITFIELD: -- in Capitol Hill.

HONIG: Yes, unforgettably. They testified in the January 6 committee. Sounds like Rudy Giuliani will testify. I don't know what he's going to say.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Why would that be advantageous for him?

HONIG: I don't know, is the short answer. I mean, his team could argue, well --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HONIG: -- the amount these people were damaged, the financial damages were somehow --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HONIG: -- limited, but I don't know what Rudy's testimony could add to that. Maybe he'll -- I mean, who knows? Maybe he'll apologize, maybe he'll express some remorse. Maybe he'll say he was misunderstood or he misspoke. Something to try to mitigate damages because that's what we're talking about here is how much of the damage is going to be.

WHITFIELD: All right, now let's shift gears to, you know, his buddy who, you know, former president --

[09:25:00]

HONIG: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- who was to be in court today for his New York civil fraud case. He promised everybody, he touted he was going to be there, and then he had second thoughts have a president who was to be in court today for his New York civil fraud case. He promised everybody. He touted he was going to be there and then he had second thoughts. I mean, why?

HONIG: It was the least bad option for him. I think he found the least bad option and declining to testify. There's no upside for him. It's all risk. He's already testified in this case, it didn't go great.

The judge has already ruled against him on one of the counts. He's put on -- they've put on a fairly vigorous fulsome defense. They've had bank witnesses saying, no, we knew, we loaned him freely, and he paid us back, we made profits, everything's fine. They called experts, accountants, that kind of thing, there's no benefit for him taking the stand. And the thing is, if he did take the stand, he'd be questioned by his own lawyers first, then he'd be cross examined by the AG's office.

I mean, if I --

WHITFIELD: And that's what you would be most nervous about?

HONIG: Absolutely. If I'm his lawyer, I'm sure I've said on this show, I would be advising him as strongly as possible. And as a lawyer, you can only advise, you can't force.

WHITFIELD: Right.

HONIG: But I would say do not take the stand, there's no need. We have we need to make our argument. Let it go. Be the better band for sort of taking a step back here.

So, I don't know what's in his mind. But legally, I think any lawyer would tell you it's the right move not to testify.

WHITFIELD: All right, Elie Honig, great to see you.

HONIG: Thanks, Fred. All right.

WHITFIELD: John.

BERMAN: All right. Will Harvard's president be the next one forced out for what she said about genocide before Congress? The aftermath of devastating tornado, several people killed as severe weather bears down now on the east.

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