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Tonight: DeSantis To Appear At CNN Town Hall In Iowa; Zelenskyy Wraps Up Critical Meetings On Capitol Hill; Speaker Johnson Gives Update After Meeting With Zelenskyy. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired December 12, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:33:04]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: New this morning. Sources tell CNN Nikki Haley is about to pick up a key endorsement from New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu. It could happen tonight as he's scheduled to appear with Haley at a rally in Manchester.

Now, the campaign for her rival, Ron DeSantis, is now trying to downplay this new boost for Haley putting out this statement saying in part, what happens in New Hampshire will significantly be impacted by the outcome in Iowa where the true Trump alternative will emerge. And clearly, Ron DeSantis is putting everything into being that alternative. He's in Iowa tonight appearing at a "CNN Presidential Town Hall."

Let's go there. CNN's Jessica Dean is standing by in Des Moines. Jessica, what does tonight mean for Ron DeSantis? What are you hearing?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, you mentioned that you know, he's putting everything into becoming that Trump alternative. And that starts here. And it really has been the center of gravity for the Ron DeSantis campaign in this stage of the primary race.

He's visited all 99 counties. He spent a lot of time here. He and his team really believed that this is a great state for him with his message. A lot of evangelical voters that make up the base of the Republican Party here in the state of Iowa. So, that is why they continue to put so much into it.

And as you heard from the statement, they said their theory of the case is that doing well in Iowa -- winning in Iowa can change the entire trajectory going into the states that follow. So, tonight will be big because if you look at the new Des Moines Register NBC News poll that we got out from yesterday, you see that the former president maintains this incredible hold over the race here with 51 percent. DeSantis then at 19 percent, and Haley at 16 percent.

So, now he's kind of got this two front-battle that he's got. He needs to obviously beat the former president, and there's a lot of room to make up there. And then in the battle for second place, Haley is nipping at his heels.

[11:35:04]

So, we have seen him start to sharpen his attacks. They have grown ever sharper in the months we have been following him. Because remember, he's really pitching himself to voters as the former president but without all of the baggage. Without the chaos that follows him.

A lot of his policies are similar, and a lot of the voters that would vote for Governor DeSantis are the same voters that voted for Donald Trump in the last two elections. So, they don't want to offend those voters. But they also have to give them a reason to come over to the Governor's side.

And so, to that end, we've seen him sharpening his attacks on Trump, with even a tweet, alluding to him being -- like really, he's calling him a coward, essentially, for not showing up on the debate stage. So, really kind of direct words. Kate, I'm watching tonight to see how much of that happens on the stage behind me and what the reaction will be in the room.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I'm very interested to see how he presents tonight. And the questions he gets, and how he handles those. It's going to be an important evening. Good to see you.

DEAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Sara?

DEAN: Yes.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: All right. To talk all about this, joining me now for more on the political world out there with the whole thing going on, town hall. We've got the two amazing people here. CNN political commentators S.E. Cupp, and CNN senior political analyst John Avalon.

I was hoping to have you in here so we could have a little bit of a party, but I guess I'll bite my tongue. I want to talk with you first, S.E. Iowa's horse up first. Ron DeSantis though is being forced to respond to some news out of New Hampshire reporting that Governor Sununu is expected to endorse Nikki Haley.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

SIDNER: The campaign has said basically look, the true Trump alternative, in their words, will first emerge in Iowa. What are your thoughts on that?

CUPP: I mean, this is par for the course for DeSantis's campaign just as he's hoping to get some momentum, some things, some deus ex machina events swoop in, and kind of takes the wind out of his sails. I mean, I was just listening to Jessica talk about DeSantis becoming the Trump alternative. He has been becoming for years and he's never become, OK? I mean, he announced six months ago that he had a shadow campaign for over a year. It's only 35 days until Iowa. When's he going to become Trump without the baggage, the Trump alternative? Nikki Haley is going up in the polls. DeSantis is either stagnant or even dropping in some of the polls.

So, this invention really by, like the donor class, that DeSantis was going to be the Trump alternative just has not manifested. And pretending that suddenly on the day of the Iowa caucus, that's going to appear magically before us. I think it's kind of a fantasy.

SIDNER: And speaking of which, DeSantis has also said the polls are never accurate when it comes to the Iowa caucuses. John, really?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST & ANCHOR: I mean, he's got a point. I -- the Iowa's caucuses can change a great deal in the final weeks left. Rick Santorum, who ultimately narrowly won in 2012 over Mitt Romney. He'd been in low single digits two months out.

The caucuses are unlike anything else. It's neighborhood versus -- two neighborhoods trying to use persuasion. I think the issue is that Donald Trump's core supporters are so intensely in his corner. It leaves the other candidates, kind of fighting for some of the persuadable.

Look. DeSantis is all-in in Iowa because he has to be. If he -- if he doesn't outperform expectations in Iowa, he's done. He's toast. Stick a fork in him.

But he's got a lot of strong momentum on the ground in terms of organization. Momentum, maybe too strong a word. He got Kim Reynolds' endorsement, the popular and effective Governor of Iowa that was highly sought after. And evangelical leaders like Bob Vander Plaats.

That should translate into support. If it doesn't, it's not going because of the lack of ground game and endorsements, it's going to because of Ron DeSantis. And the fact that he's just had a hard time connecting with actual humans in the retail politics -- (INAUDIBLE)

SIDNER: Yes. And look, there's a pro-DeSantis super PAC that has launched a new ad. They're going after Nikki Haley, interestingly, not going after the front-runner.

AVLON: Yes.

SIDNER: But they're going after Haley for flip-flopping and such things that you hear on many campaigns. Why, S.E., is DeSantis going after Haley? It is very, very, very clear who the front runner is. And the only thing that you hear him going after Donald Trump for a lot is not showing up for the debate.

CUPP: Yes. That seems to be the hill he's willing to die on. And really the only Hill. It's -- he's kind of laid off Donald Trump.

And that's the problem. I think Donald Trump is on top because, for eight years, he conditioned an environment for voters to only trust him and discard everything and everyone else. He did that with the help of a lot of Republicans who are currently running for president.

[11:40:00]

And so now, for all of those folks who -- I don't know, like Ron DeSantis cut commercials, featuring their kids reading Donald Trump bedtime stories, to suddenly say, but he's not debating so vote for me.

SIDNER: Yes.

CUPP: That seems -- I mean, a little -- you know, too little too late. And it's just not believable. You all help Donald Trump create this environment where he could potentially run from prison, and maybe even still win. And now, you're begging those same voters for your vote.

The place should always have been, for people not named Trump, to go after the moderates, independents, and disaffected Republicans and Democrats. And instead, they tried completely, you know, ineffectively to peel off Trump voters at the same time. It doesn't work. You can't do both.

SIDNER: Yes. And I can't believe that we're actually 11 months or so away from another presidential election. John Avalon, tonight, you know, we're going to see DeSantis on the stage.

He's got a platform where he can say what he wants. What do you expect to hear from him? Do you think it will move the needle at all?

AVLON: Not much has to date but he is speaking to a national audience. He's got to show he can take questions from actual voters, as well as, you know, questions from an interviewer who's actually going to interrogate him. And do so with a sense of humor while making a positive case for his own you know being president.

And he's going to have to take some shots of Donald Trump for reasons of contrast. Campaigns are after all about contrast. Not simply related to his decision to abandon the debate stage.

So, this is as high stakes as it gets for Ron DeSantis. He's been a talented politician in the past. I think S.E. Cupp raises a great point about the significance of his campaign for governor where he had his children playing with -- teaching them to spell with Trump and blocks. But he won in a resounding reelection in Florida. He's got to show some of that political savvy and talent.

CUPP: Yes.

AVLON: And not simply be this sort of wooden automaton that's had a hard time connecting with folks.

SIDNER: Yes. The polling is not in his favor.

AVLON: No.

SIDNER: But as you said, Iowa caucuses not always -- the polls don't always get it right. S.E. Cupp, John Avlon, you're the best. Thank you both.

AVLON: You bet. Thank you.

CUPP: Sure.

SIDNER: And with only as we mentioned, five weeks until the Iowa caucuses, Florida governor and Republican presidential hopeful Ron DeSantis joins Jake Tapper live from Iowa to take questions directly from voters. The "CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall" airs at 9:00 p.m. tonight, Eastern. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right, we are standing by to hear from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy what he is saying to U.S. lawmakers right now behind closed doors.

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[11:47:08]

BERMAN: All right, this was just moments ago on Capitol Hill, the House side. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, you can see his head right there amidst that group of people walking down the hallway. We believe he is coming out of his meeting with U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson right now. We've been watching him move through the Capitol building all morning long waiting for him to comment if he chooses to do so, so far, he has not chosen to do so as we watch him walk away there.

Though we are getting new information about the pitch he is making behind closed doors to lawmakers from some of those lawmakers themselves who have emerged from those meetings and then been chased down by roving news finder Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Manu, what have you heard about what's taking place at these meetings?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Zelenskyy is actually telling these members that he does not expect the United States to fail in its push to try to provide aid to Ukraine. In fact, he said they are still counting on money from the United States. And it did push back against Russia, even though things are stalled on Capitol Hill and the dynamics simply have not changed despite the urgent pleas behind closed doors by Volodymyr Zelenskyy to improve aid immediately, deal with the air missile defense system, that he believes we -- is essential at this moment to push back against Russia. Warning that if Ukraine falls, they would exacerbate a migrant crisis that provide -- lead to migrants surging to other European countries as well as the United States.

But the migrant crisis here in the United States is the reason why things are stalled. Republicans are demanding changes on the U.S. border with Mexico -- policy changes in order to greenlight aid to Ukraine. Now, I'm told that Zelenskyy did not specifically address that debate as he pushed for more aid to Ukraine.

But in talking to senators who have left that meeting, Republican Senators, in particular, they made clear that their minds were not changed, including Senator Markwayne Mullin, who I had just caught up with. And said that House Republicans and Senate Republicans are united on their push for immigration policy to be dealt with first before greenlighting aid to Ukraine.

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SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): There are zero chance that an aid package to Ukraine and to Israel will pass the House without real meaningful -- real meaningful Border Security. And I will tell you, Republicans alike. We all stand and step with the House Republicans in doing so.

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RAJU: Now, the question is if speaker Johnson's approach has changed at all after meeting for roughly 30 minutes with Volodymyr Zelenskyy just now. We expect Johnson to address reporters in a matter of minutes. But so far, his approach has not changed in line with senators like Markwayne Mullin saying immigration first, Ukraine later. But the problem is no deal is in sight on the issue of immigration. John.

[11:50:05]

BERMAN: All right. Manu Raju, thank you very much. We see that microphone there. That is where we expect to see the House Speaker, Mike Johnson any minute now with that group of expected reporters. We'll monitor that very closely. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Coming up also for us. The president of Harvard will be keeping her job. Why does the school's governing body say it is backing Claudine Gay after the outrage sparked by her handling of antisemitism on campus and congressional testimony about genocide?

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BOLDUAN: Let's go back to Capitol Hill. House Speaker Mike Johnson, talking to reporters after his meeting with President Zelenskyy. Let's listen.

[11:55:06]

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REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Thank you all for being here. Just had a good meeting with President Zelenskyy. I reiterated to him that we stand with him and against Putin's brutal invasion. The American people stand for freedom and they're on the right side of this fight.

I have asked the White House since the day that I was handed the gavel as speaker for clarity. We need a clear articulation of the strategy to allow Ukraine to win. And thus far, their responses have been insufficient.

They have not provided us the clarity and the detail that we requested over and over since literally 24 hours after I was handed the gavel as Speaker of the House. And so, what the Biden administration seems to be asking for is billions of additional dollars with no appropriate oversight, no clear strategy to win, and none of the answers that I think the American people are owed. I have also made very clear from day one --

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SIDNER: All right, listening to that, it doesn't seem like Zelenskyy pushed him to a different decision. Thank you so much for joining us. There's much more on this coming up. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

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