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Interview With Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ); Harvard's Board Will Not Remove President Claudine Gay; Man Freed After Serving 18 Years For Bogus Murder Charge. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired December 12, 2023 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[13:32:58]
RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: Welcome back. It is now seven days since jailed Russian opposition leader, Alexei Navalny, has reportedly been missing. His trial was postponed today after his legal team said that it lost contact with him.
Navalny's spokesperson says that there is no concrete evidence of where he is, but they had been told that he quote, "left a Russian prison colony."
Navalny is serving sentences totaling more than 30 years in maximum security penal colonies near Moscow.
Now the White House and State Department both say that they are deeply concerned about his well-being.
But earlier today, the Kremlin pushed back against those concerns. The spokesperson saying that it does not have the capacity nor the willingness to monitor the whereabouts of prisoners.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: One thing that is definitely on the Kremlin's radar today's is the meeting between President Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, happening in the next hour.
Our cameras at the White House are monitoring Zelenskyy's arrival. Earlier today, the Ukrainian president was on Capitol Hill. He met with members of the U.S. Senate.
Including Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, who joins us now live.
Senator Kelly, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.
Do you think that President Zelenskyy's visit changed the minds of your colleagues who oppose sending more aid to Ukraine?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Boris, he presented a compelling case. He talked about how they're inflicting huge losses. They've made a lot of progress. They have more work to do.
We can't ignore and abandon our allies here in this time of need. I mean, they need our support.
The problem that we are seeing on Capitol Hill is but we usually see, and it's frustrating. They are running out of ammunition, and we have to provide that combat power back to replenish what they have.
SANCHEZ: Senator Kelly, I just want to let our viewers know that this is a live picture from the White House where, again, we are anticipating the Ukrainian president's arrival at any moment.
Sir, one objection from those Republican colleagues you mentioned is that there is no clear endgame for Ukraine. The White House says that this is Ukraine's war, that they should define would victory looks like.
[13:35:03]
But Zelenskyy even appears to be in disagreement with his own generals over the approach. The counteroffensive also has not met expectations.
In your mind, what does an obtainable victory look like in Ukraine? Is it the retaking of Crimea?
BORIS: There will be a clear winner and loser in this conflict. I mean, everybody needs to understand that. There will be an end to this. And we need to make sure that the Ukrainians win.
I mean, if we let Putin take over Ukraine, he is going to set his sights on another target. And that target could be a Baltic country. It could be Poland. It will be a NATO ally.
Then we end up in a situation where we are going to have to defend our allies. And that means committing combat troops.
We have eliminated, by helping Ukraine, a lot of the combat capacity of Russia. And the Ukrainian people have fought really, really hard.
I've been to Ukraine twice this year. A young woman, who made this compelling case for getting F-16s to me personally, I worked on that. They now have F-16 pilots training in Arizona.
They are learning how to bring this platform into the fight. We can't let the dysfunction in Washington prevent us from doing what is right.
SANCHEZ: That point is taken. However, I'm still short of the specifics of what victory looks like. Do you think it's Ukraine retaking Crimea? Because it doesn't seem like there is the political will to get them the kind of aid that they would need to do that.
KELLY: Well let's start with them not losing. I mean, if they lose, you're talking about the deaths of thousands if not tens of thousands of more Ukrainians and their families.
The Russians have stolen children. I mean, that is not who we are to let that happen to one of our allies.
This thing has not gone exactly as we would have liked. But if you go back two years, we thought Russia was going to run through this country in a matter of just days or weeks. They have not done that.
And with our support, we can help them fight back against this dictator. We cannot give Putin his Christmas present.
I mean, he is looking for this. He is waiting. Even commented on what happened here last week when we started to seem like we had some trouble here.
And you know who else is watching this? It is the Chinese president. The leadership in Iran. The dictator in North Korea. They are watching what's happening here.
And if we fail, if we fail in this moment, I think history is not going to judge us well.
SANCHEZ: Senator, the other objection from some of your colleagues has to do with corruption. Zelenskyy has argued that Ukraine has made a lot of reforms to ensure that aid is not being misused.
But domestically, and I'm sure you've heard from some constituents who feel that all of the money that is going to Ukraine would be better spent here at home. I'm wondering what your response is to those skeptics.
KELLY: Boris, when I was in Ukraine on my last trip, and met with the Tenth Mountain Division and talked about that specifically. You know, saw where they keep all of the paperwork of everything that we are transferred to Ukraine.
I went through the entire process. Including where weapons are loaded onto the trucks, you know? Poles who are bringing these weapons into Ukraine. I've talked to the ambassador about this in detail.
There's no evidence that any of these weapons are showing up in other countries.
We talked about this with Zelenskyy today. They have made reforms. They have complied so far with 100 percent of the items that we have asked them to look into.
So I think that this is -- at this point, this allegation of corruption, sure, Ukraine's had corruption problems in the past.
They are in an existential fight with Vladimir Putin, who wants to take over Ukraine and end them as a country. We cannot let that happen.
SANCHEZ: So that -- that sort of allegation, would you describe it as a talking point? Do you think it is made up by Republicans that want to appease Donald Trump? We know how he feels about getting aid to Ukraine.
KELLY: I can just tell you what I have seen, and my conversations with the Ukrainians and the ambassador, including her staff.
There is a process that we have put into place to monitor, to account for, to audit their systems. We're helping with that. I don't see any evidence of this yet.
SANCHEZ: So in order to get more aid to Ukraine, Republicans say they want concessions from Democrats on border policy. Immigration is obviously a key issue for your state. It figures to be a major issue for the 2024 election.
There's a recent "New York Times" poll that shows Donald Trump with a slight edge over Joe Biden in Arizona, a state that helped propel Biden to the White House in 2020.
[13:40:00]
What is your read on the presidents struggles right now? How can he turn it around? And it's some kind of deal on immigration a part of that?
KELLY: Hey, nobody argues that the border is not in a crisis situation. I've been dealing with this for three years.
We have provided more support for Border Patrol. We need to do more. The presidents supplemental had funding and there for Border Patrol agents, asylum officers, judges. These are the things that we agree on.
We are talking about Ukraine aid, Israel, humanitarian assistance, funding for INDOPACCOM, with a -- future issues with China, let me leave it at that.
For this to be caught up in the politics of the border would be a mistake. There is a lot that we agree upon. Resources for border control, CBP, rebuilding ports of entry.
On policy, we need to continue to talk about it. There's been a proposal from the White House. We have to come to an agreement.
For us to abandoned Ukraine and Israel and, by the way, not be prepared in the western Pacific would be a colossal mistake for us.
SANCHEZ: Senator Mark Kelly, we very much appreciate your time and perspectives. Thanks for coming on.
KELLY: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Of course.
We are going to stay on top of these pictures, live from the White House. Right now, Presidents Zelenskyy of Ukraine set to arrive at any moment and meeting with President Biden. Said to start just after 2:00 p.m.
Stay with us at CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We will bring you the very latest.
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[13:46:00] SANCHEZ: This is video from moments ago. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy arriving at the White House, being greeted by President Biden. We are said to hear from both leaders as they speak from the Oval Office in just minutes. We will bring you their remarks.
Meantime, Harvard University's leadership is standing unanimously in support of President Claudine Gay despite her coming under fire for congressional testimony related to anti-Semitism on campus.
The statement from the board reads, in part, quote, "We today reaffirm our support for President Gay's continued leadership of Harvard University."
SOLOMON: Now the decision comes after more than 700 faculty signed a petition in support of Gay after a firestorm of criticism over her Capitol Hill testimony on campus anti-Semitism.
Let me bring in CNN's Matt Egan. He's been following this story.
So, Matt, it seems like the president is still facing some pretty strong criticism, and that the statement from the board may not be the final word on the matter. What is the latest here?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well Rahel and Boris, this really was a monumental decision facing Harvard. They even had to accept Claudine Gay's apology or push out the first black president in Harvard's nearly 400-year history.
And so after what they described as extensive deliberations, the Harvard corporation announced that they don't want Claudine Gay to go anywhere. They praised her as the, quote, "right leader to help a community heal." They pledged their unanimous support.
I would note, though, that the statement, it did offer some criticism, saying that the Harvard initial reaction to the October 7th Hamas attacks should have been an immediate and unequivocal condemnation.
Still though, this is a huge relief to the more than 700 faculty members of Harvard who were pleading with officials not to cave to outside pressure.
I spoke to Harvard economics professor, Jason Furman, the former Obama official, and he told me that he is glad that the Harvard corporation made its own decision instead of quote, "outsourcing it to others."
Not surprisingly, though this is not silencing Harvard's critics. We heard from Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik who, remember, it was her questioning during the hearing just a week ago that sparked all of this controversy.
Listen to what Stefanik said today.
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REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): This is a moral failure of Harvard's leadership and higher education leadership at the highest levels. And the only change that they have made to their code of conduct,
where they failed to condemn calls for genocide of the Jewish people, the only update to the code of conduct is to allow a plagiarist as the president of Harvard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EGAN: So Stefanik there referencing some allegations that Gay had plagiarized some of her academic work, including her 1997 dissertation.
For her part, we should, note that Gay says she stands by the integrity of her scholarship.
The Harvard corporation says that they did an independent review here. While they did find a few instances of inadequate citation, they did not find a violation of the university's standards.
The bottom line here is the controversy at Harvard is not over. But officials have decided that Claudine Gay is the person that they want to lead them out of this crisis.
SOLOMON: OK, at least the support's there.
Matt Egan, thank you.
And coming up, he was imprisoned as a teenager, and now, nearly two decades later, he is walking out of jail a free man.
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SOLOMON: Next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, the story of a man wrongfully convicted of murder who is now looking forward to the future.
We'll be right back.
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[13:54:23]
SOLOMON: Welcome back. And we are following two big economic headlines this hour.
A key economic indicator shows that U.S. prices are still on the rise, but inflation continues to cool. The Consumer Price Index, or CPI, for November, on an annual headline basis, came in at 3.1 percent. That pretty much met economists' expectations.
So when you look at categories like rent, it continued to go up. Food continued to go up. But it was offset by a drop in gas prices. Analysts do not think the latest CPI report will have a great impact
on the Fed in its decision, which, by the way, that meet today and tomorrow, and are expecting to keep interest rates unchanged. We will learn in almost exactly 24 hours.
[13:55:03]
Also tough times for the maker of Play-Doh and Nerf guns. Hasbro slashing nearly 20 percent of its workforce, announcing it is laying off 1,100 employees in a memo to employees yesterday. The company cut 800 staffers earlier this year.
And the CEO says that Hasbro foresees a, quote, "challenging market ahead" after coming off historic highs during the pandemic.
SANCHEZ: "A terrible injustice" -- that is how a Minnesota prosecutor describes the ordeal of a man finally released after nearly two decades behind bars on a wrongful murder conviction.
Marvin Haynes walked out of prison a free man on Monday after serving 19 years. He was sentenced to life after he was convicted of killing a man at a Minneapolis flower shop back in 2004.
Haynes was just 16 years old at the time, and on one day a judge vacated that conviction.
Haynes told CNN today that he appreciates the hard work of his lawyers, and prosecutors who helped right this terrible wrong.
He says he is looking forward to what the future holds. Listen.
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MARVIN HAYNES, RELEASED FROM PRISON AFTER CONVICTION OVERTURNED: It's been a long journey. So to hear those words from somebody, to acknowledge I'm actually innocent, and help me get my life back on track. I can't even explain what it means to me.
I went to a nice dinner with my lawyer. We enjoyed each other. And I was so appreciative of them. They helped save my life. So, you know, just correct my narrative. So I was so happy about that.
But I'm looking forward to getting a job, just getting my life in order, and just, yes, try to work me a little job. Have discipline and try to help my family out.
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SANCHEZ: Prosecutors say the case against Haynes relied entirely on eyewitness testimony. There was no physical evidence that tied him to the crime.
Stay with CNN. We're back in just a few minutes.
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