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Inside The 2020 Oval Photo-Op "Gone South"; Sexual Assault Survivors Testify On Capitol Hill After CNN Exposes Secret Coast Guard Investigation; Sources: White House Signals It's Open To Policy Changes At Southern Border To Push Ukraine Aid Forward. Aired 11:30a- 12p ET
Aired December 13, 2023 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00]
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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: New reporting exclusive to CNN. Kenneth Chesebro, the pro-Trump attorney turned state's witness after a plea deal with Georgia prosecutors. He's heard on new audio obtained by CNN describing a pivotal Oval Office meeting that happened a month after the 2020 election. A meeting where Chesebro says Trump was told he lost the election.
CNN's Marshall Cohen, CNN's Katelyn Polantz, they have all of this reporting for us. Marshall, let me start with you. Donald Trump -- what was Donald Trump told in this meeting that we're just -- that we're talking about here, specifically about Wisconsin? Why does it matter?
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Yes. Hey, Kate. Chesebro described this as a photo-op gone wrong. This was in December 2020. Trump had just lost his election challenge in Wisconsin, the lawyers from that state who worked on that case were in D.C., and they got a meet and greet with the President in the Oval Office.
They were supposed to just, you know, take pictures, and do some handshakes. But it turned into a pretty elaborate discussion about the election. They were told before they went in, Kate, do not get Trump's hopes up about overturning the results.
And his lead attorney from Wisconsin toed the line and he delivered the bad news. That man is Jim Troupis. Here is Ken Chesebro describing what the president was told about Wisconsin.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KENNETH CHESEBRO, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: It's clear that Troupis personally told the president there was zero hope for Wisconsin. As part of this message, I think crafted to try to get him to concede or just you know, give up this long-shot challenge. So, there was a -- there was a conscious effort to deflect him from a sense of any possibility that he could pull out the election.
(END AUDIO CLIP) COHEN: So, that's the bad news. There's no chance you can win. We all know what happened though, Kate. Trump continued to contest the results in Wisconsin and the other states.
This is big and important to evidence possibly for Special Counsel Jack Smith. That federal indictment against Trump is loaded with examples of Trump being told by his lawyers, by his advisors that he lost. And it doesn't mention this Oval Office meeting. So, these new revelations build on the existing evidence against Trump, Kate.
BOLDUAN: And, Marshall, your reporting also shows that Chesebro says that that's not the only thing that happened in this photo-op gone bad -- this Oval Office meeting. What happened next?
COHEN: Well, after they talked about Wisconsin, the conversation moved to Arizona. And that's when Chesebro chimed in. This was the first time he was ever meeting President Trump.
Remember, he was told don't egg this on. Don't indulge Trump's hopes of overturning the results. But that's exactly what he ended up doing. Listen to Chesebro describing that moment.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CHESEBRO: So, I ended up explaining that Arizona was still hypothetically possible because the alternate electors had voted. And I explained the whole logic -- because the alternate electors had voted, we had more time win the litigation. So, it was, I think, clear in a way that maybe it hadn't been before that we had until January 6 to win.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COHEN: So, he went off script. He told Trump that you can keep fighting. And apparently, Trump embraced that. He heard what he wanted to hear and continued contesting the results all the way through January 6 as we all know.
The problem for Chesebro was that he wasn't supposed to do that. And the fallout was immediate. Kate, Reince Priebus, the RNC chairman who helped this meeting get arranged because he was also from Wisconsin, he was in the room. He was livid and really lashed out at Chesebro after they all walked out. Here's Chesebro describing the fallout.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CHESEBRO: Right after the meeting, Troupis -- well, Troupis said that Reince Priebus is extremely concerned with what I told the president about Arizona and about the real deadline being January 6 and that he was going to do damage control. Reince was going to follow up. And I mean I -- was trying to mitigate whatever optimist I guess I created.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COHEN: So, Kate, it was supposed to be a meeting greet and a photo op, but it turned into an impromptu briefing about fake electors and how to keep fighting until January 6.
[11:35:08]
BOLDUAN: Katelyn, let me bring you in now as -- there's more to this as well, which is you've got Chesebro. He's talking to Michigan State prosecutors -- investigators there. But what does this all mean then for federal prosecutors and their case against Donald Trump?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN JUSTICE & CRIME REPORTER: Well, it means that there is another example out there of how Donald Trump was being told he lost. In each of these investigations, there's the Michigan investigation, there's several other states, there's the Georgia case, there's the federal case, all of these turn on who was being duped and who knew that the election lies were false, who made the conscious choice to continue pushing disinformation about the election. In the federal case, the prosecutors are saying it was Trump and he had co- conspirators and some of those co-conspirators were people like Ken Chesebro, who knew that there was no chance for Donald Trump to win the election after the votes came in, but yet, they continued to push this idea that there could be a way for him to eke out a win.
And so, hearing something like this, that this is what Ken Chesebro recalls from that period of time, it is another example. Now, whether that means that the special counsel's office is going to want to call Ken Chesebro or even talk to him at this point, we just don't know. We have no evidence of that right now.
He's also a co-conspirator in their case, and they're ready to go to trial against Donald Trump. So, we might not hear from him in that venue. But it just underlines that this is something that Ken Chesebro has to say as just as many people in the political world around Donald Trump have also said he lost he knew it.
BOLDUAN: Great reporting, guys. Katelyn, thank you. Marshall, thank you both so much. Sara.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Coming up. Stunning testimony on Capitol Hill. Several women recount their experience with sexual harassment and assault at the Coast Guard Academy after a CNN investigation brought all this to light. We're hearing from top senators who are blasting what they say has been a culture of cover- up.
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SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): This testimony is some of the most powerful I've heard in my entire term in the United States Senate, And I've heard a lot of powerful testimony. This is horrifying and heartbreaking.
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[11:41:56] SIDNER: A deeply emotional hearing on Capitol Hill where several women who were victims of sexual harassment and assault at the Coast Guard testified yesterday before a Senate subcommittee. Lawmakers upon hearing it, blasted the Coast Guard for mishandling and covering up sexual abuse for years. But we may not have heard about all of this until CNN started reporting on it. And now, our chief investigative correspondent Pamela Brown and her team have been working on this and telling these stories.
Pamela, you and your team expose this to the public that this had been going on for a very long time. And there was an investigation. What can you tell us about what we can expect going further?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the big question here. There's four investigations going on right now, so we do expect more to come out of all of this. But in terms of the hearing, Sara, you know, it is so rare to get bipartisan agreement in Washington these days. But both Senator Richard Blumenthal and Republican Senator Ron Johnson said this was the most powerful testimony they have heard. And that's because four brave women agreed to tell their stories of sexual assault, including a current cadet at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy.
CNN as you noted, Sara, uncovered a long history of rapes and other sexual assaults within the Coast Guard that were often mishandled or hidden. And when the Coast Guard did a years-long investigation to figure out the depth of that problem, they kept the results a secret. So, that meant the Coast Guard didn't fix its issues. Though the Coast Guard Commandant, the current one, has ordered sweeping changes since our first report five months ago.
Now, the women who testified represent decades of service in the Coast Guard, all from different eras. And most of them faulted Coast Guard leadership, which in the past made it difficult to report sexual assaults. They spoke of having to work alongside their attackers of not being protected. Many times, the victims were punished. For example, if alcohol was involved, well, their assailants would freed. Sometimes they were promoted.
Current Cadet Kyra Grace Holmstrup was raped by a fellow Cadet on campus. And she says, while the reporting process has improved and she was given a victim's advocate and counselor, she still had difficulty with leadership.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CADET KYRA GRACE HOLMSTRUP, U.S. COAST GUARD: We are always told that you just have to say no. But no to him was an invitation to try again. I was 19. What I didn't know then was that after making an unrestricted report out of fear for my safety, I would be thrown into the darkest year of my life.
My classmates stopped talking to me as I spiraled into a deep depression. We always talk about how trauma stems from the assault. But the reporting system continues to re-victimize and causes trauma of its own. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Yes. And on that note, another witness who testified that I spoke to yesterday said the investigation after she reported the assault was worse than the actual assault she experienced. For so many of the women who testified and the dozens of others CNN spoke to, the fact that the Coast Guard has never properly dealt with the culture within the Coast Guard made it even worse.
[11:45:05]
Women we talked to, dealt not only with sexual assault but then as Coast Guard members, years of daily sexual harassment and abuse. And it can have devastating impacts. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. MELISSA MCCAFFERTY (RET), U.S. COAST GUARD: For some, including myself, when the abuse becomes so unrelenting, so omnipresent, and so insufferable, we seek relief and suicide. I survived my attempt. Tragically, many, many of my shipmates did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, this was such an emotional testimony, Sara. But one of the women who testified said it made her feel stronger. It gave her her voice back, Sara.
SIDNER: That was incredibly powerful to hear from those who were in the Coast Guard and those currently serving, and the punishment they received after already being victims of sexual assault. Let me ask you if you have some sense of what's going to happen next. Are there going to be changes? What should we expect?
BROWN: That's the big question. And the women we spoke to are skeptical that there will be changes because there have been past reports, and they feel like nothing happened. Now, last week, the Coast Guard released the very critical result of its own 90-day review, and it's vowing to make a series of changes going forward.
But you know -- look, the fact as you noted, the Coast Guard hasn't held many of the past perpetrators responsible. And so there is -- you know, looking ahead, there's a lot of these survivors are wondering, are they going to be held accountable? What's going to happen to them?
Now, the Coast Guard said in a statement to CNN after this testimony. We recognize and applaud the tremendous courage of the witnesses who came forward. Their reflections and recommendations and those of all survivors are essential to our efforts to continuously improve our prevention and response policies. And you know, once again, the Coast Guard did apologize to these survivors, Sara.
SIDNER: Pam Brown, it's such excellent reporting from you and your team. Thank you for letting us all see what is going on there. And hopefully, changes will be made. Appreciate it.
BROWN: Thank you.
SIDNER: John?
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So, fresh off after getting a big endorsement in New Hampshire, Nikki Haley just sat down with Dana Bash for a new and revealing interview. Stick around.
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[11:52:00]
SIDNER: New developments in the battle for more funding for Ukraine. Sources telling us the White House has signaled it's now open to major policy changes on the southern border in an effort to get Republicans on board, finally, with pushing aid forward to Ukraine and its fight with Russia. That if Congress fails to pass an aid package, it would give Russian president -- the Russian president according to Joe Biden, the greatest Christmas gift.
Joining me now is Petro Poroshenko, the former President of Ukraine. Thank you, sir, for taking the time. I do want to ask you first. You have the support of the president. That is clear.
But hearing from the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. He said look there -- if there is no clear winning strategy, he does not necessarily support giving money. What do you say to him?
PETRO POROSHENKO, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Look, everybody should understand what is the atmosphere here in Kyiv -- I mean, Ukraine. This night, 10 Russian ballistic and cruise missiles attacking civilian objects in Kyiv. 53 persons including children were heavily wounded because of this missile attack.
Yesterday, the Russian cruise missiles also attacked Kyiv, and one of them was falling 500 meters from my house because of the Ukrainian air defense. And every single day of delay, this is the new lives of Ukrainian civilians and new victims with this situation.
And we kindly ask you, first of all, please do not delay. Second, please do not make Ukraine as a hostage, especially a hostage about their internal discussion. Because Ukraine now -- this is the question of values. Ukraine now is the question for freedom. It's a question for democracy.
Behind me. This is the 300 FPV drone, which tomorrow me delivered to our troops which fighting on these. Why are we using the kamikaze drone? Because we have a lack of ammunition.
And with that situation, we should do our best to demonstrate to Putin he never has any chance. And I want to use this opportunity to thanks President Biden for his leadership, to thanks United States Congress for the bipartisan support. And we definitely count that this bipartisan support which you demonstrated 10 years already can help us to stop Putin because Putin is afraid of bipartisan support. And Putin will --
SIDNER: President Poroshenko, he has -- Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: And that is true. And you talk about the drones that are behind you. But if you do not get this money, what is going to happen?
POROSHENKO: We will continue to fight. We simply do not have this or any other option. But the price we pay, it would be much higher. And the price you pay would be much higher. Because if you can't spend one dollar to stop Putin here in Ukraine, you should spend $10 to stop Putin outside of Ukraine.
[11:55:15]
SIDNER: Former President --
POROSHENKO: (INAUDIBLE) That is the best investment and it's cheaper.
SIDNER: Former President Petro Poroshenko, thank you so much for taking the time to come with us and giving us that view of all those drones there. Appreciate it.
All right. Thank you for joining us.
BERMAN: Yes, it has been a jam-packed CNN NEWS CENTRAL for sure.
SIDNER: Yes.
BOLDUAN: Yes, just lock on, on the day.
BERMAN: Breaking news all over the place. And coming up on "INSIDE POLITICS." Don't forget, CNN's Dana Bash has an interview with Nikki Haley and New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu fresh off his endorsement for Haley last night. So, don't go anywhere.
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