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Trump Makes Iowa Push; Suspected Terror Plot in Europe. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 14, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:53]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news this hour.

Israeli intelligence officials say a Hamas terrorist plot set to be carried out in Europe has been foiled. Multiple terror suspects are now behind bars. But who were they targeting? We will dig into that story.

Plus, a federal judge pumping the brakes on Donald Trump's 2020 election interference case, potentially delaying it further into campaign season. What does that mean for Trump and the Republicans running against him?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And a top White House officials in Israel right now meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and members of his war Cabinet, this as CNN is the first Western media outlet to get access to Southern Gaza and report independently. We're going to show you that report this hour.

Very busy day for us. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. I'm Boris Sanchez, alongside Pam Brown, in the nation's capital.

And we're following fast-moving developments, a suspected terror plot foiled in Europe. German and Israeli officials say that several Hamas members were arrested for allegedly planning to attack Jewish institutions in Europe. The operations apparently involve law enforcement from Germany and the Netherlands.

Now, terror-related arrests have also been made in Denmark. But authorities tell CNN that there's no direct connection with the German arrests. These arrests are the latest alarming example of a world on edge because of the Israel-Hamas conflict.

BROWN: Yes, we have global coverage.

So let's start with CNN's Alex Marquardt in Tel Aviv, Israel.

So, Alex, what are Israeli officials saying about these arrests?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam and Boris, it appears that the -- that Israel has been speaking with Denmark about this terror plot that was interrupted about these alleged Hamas members who were arrested, and that the German arrests -- and the Germans are talking about arresting Hamas members -- that these are separate things.

So what we're hearing from the Mossad intelligence agency, the Shin Bet security agency here in Israel is thanks to the Danes for thwarting what the Israelis are saying is an attack to be carried out by people who are affiliated with Hamas.

Earlier today, we got a statement from the prime minister's office here in Israel, this thanks to the Danes, to the PET, which is the Danish security agency, that says that they managed to thwart an attack on behalf of the Hamas terrorist organization. They went on to say that this plot was to kill innocent civilians on European soil.

So, as you were saying, Boris, it's not exactly clear where in Europe this attack was due to take place, whether it was in Denmark or elsewhere. Three of the four arrests, according to the Danes, took place in Denmark. There was a fourth arrest that took place in the Netherlands.

Now, PET, the Danish security agency, they don't mention Hamas in their statement. They also don't mention that they worked alongside the Israelis, but they certainly are hinting or actually saying quite clearly that they collaborated with what they call foreign colleagues.

Now, the people they arrested, so four people, they say were preparing an act of terrorism in connection with other countries. They also talk about an awareness of Jewish places. So that could mean that the target or targets for these individuals were Jewish institutions.

Jewish institutions across Israel -- across -- excuse me -- across Europe have been on high alert during this war in Gaza. Now, the Israelis are also saying that Hamas has been working on expanding its operations to be able to carry out attacks outside of Israel, in Europe and elsewhere.

And so we really need a bit more clarification from the Israelis about what this line, "on behalf of the Hamas organization," means. Were these Hamas members? Were these people who were inspired by Hamas? Do they belong to other terrorist organizations?

For now, we know that there have been a number of arrests made in connection with a potential attack that was thwarted, but we still have lots of questions -- Pam, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Alex, please stand by.

[13:05:00]

Let's go to Europe now with CNN's Fred Pleitgen, who is live for us in Berlin.

Fred, what are you hearing from German officials?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Boris.

Well, it's so interesting, because Alex was just talking about what's going on in Denmark. And there's no relations, apparently, to what's been going on here in Germany. But there certainly are some similarities. Here in Germany also, four people were arrested in total, but one of those arrests also took place in the Netherlands as well.

This is as far as the German federal prosecutor is concerned. Three people were arrested here in Berlin. And what we have from the federal prosecutor's office, from the German authorities is, they say all three people who were arrested were longstanding members of Hamas or are longstanding members of Hamas.

And they went even further to say that all of them have very close and direct ties to the leadership of the military wing of Hamas, which is, of course, the al-Qassam Brigades. Now, what the Germans are saying is that they believe that the Hamas has started to put a weapons depot together here in Germany, and that these three suspects, apparently, were trying to find that weapons depot to stockpile those weapons.

They apparently were tasked with taking those weapons out of the depot and bringing the weapons to Berlin also for attacks, as the Germans put it, against Jewish institutions across Europe as well. It's unclear whether or not there were any direct plans, imminent plans for attacks.

But, certainly, the Germans obviously saying that this is a very pressing issue for them. All three of the people have been arrested, one person detained in the Netherlands. As we said, apparently, they are going to go before a federal judge here in Germany tomorrow to then be decided how long they're going to remain in custody.

But, obviously, this is a matter for the German authorities. That is of the highest priority. In fact, we heard tonight from the German interior minister. Her name is Nancy Faeser.

Here's what she had to say. She said -- quote -- "The protection of Jews is our top priority. We use all constitutional means against those who threaten the lives of Jews and the existence of the state of Israel."

So, obviously, top priority for the Germans. One of the things that we have been seeing here in Germany, and, no doubt, which has been happening in other European countries as well is that security at Jewish institutions has been upped immensely, has been increased to a large degree, with more police presence, obviously, in all these places, as you can see, the Germans obviously taking this extremely seriously, guys.

BROWN: All right, thanks so much, Fred Pleitgen. Alex, thank you.

I want to bring in CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen.

So, Peter, put this into perspective for us. What does all of this tell you? PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, one thing, Pam, is

-- it's hard to prove negatives, but Hamas doesn't really have a long record of carrying out terrorist attacks in Europe. So that's sort of striking to me that we have now cases in Germany and also in Denmark.

As Alex and Fred Pleitgen were reporting, the Danish case seems to be about people affiliated with Hamas. What that means isn't really clear. Is that people who sort of sympathize? And then the German case, these appear to be members of Hamas.

We have certainly seen a sharp rise in antisemitic incidents across Europe since October 7. But I think this is certainly a new phenomenon, where Hamas appears to be allegedly carrying out or trying to carry out terrorist attacks in Europe against Jewish sites. That, to me, is new.

BROWN: And does it represent an expansion of Hamas' scope and what its goals are now?

BERGEN: I think it does, because Hamas has traditionally been very focused on Gaza, the West Bank and Israel.

And, here, we're seeing an expansion. By the way, this was somewhat predicted by FBI Director Christopher Wray and also Christy Abizaid, who runs the National Counterterrorism Center, who testified in late October that terrorist groups around the world were going to be sort of inspired by the events of October 7 and are using that as a rallying cry.

And, unfortunately, this -- if these allegations are true, this seems to confirm that analysis.

SANCHEZ: And, Peter, from Alex's reporting, it's not exactly clear just the extent of Israel's role in intelligence sharing and gathering, but, obviously, in a scenario like this, with Hamas apparently now trying to carry out its agenda on other continents, how significant is that intelligence sharing?

And how easily do these nations coordinate with one another to stop attacks that are planned like this?

BERGEN: Well, I'm going to speculate here, Boris, but I think that I mean, clearly, maybe signals intelligence was implicated here.

Here, a lot of the information that we're getting about this particular set of allegations is coming from the Israelis, who are thanking the Danish security services for their work. It's -- we still don't know a lot. And we know less about the Danish case than we know about the German case, which the Germans are very clear that these were Hamas operatives.

[13:10:18]

In the Danish case, it's possible that they are simply people who are inspired by Hamas. We don't really know. One point to mention is, of course, Denmark has been a frequent target of jihadist terrorist. There's a particular emphasis amongst jihadists because of the "Jyllands-Posten" newspaper, which published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.

So, there have been multiple attempts against that newspaper over the years and that attack on the Danish Embassy in Pakistan back in 2008. So, Denmark is certainly a country that jihadist terrorists have had in their sights. There's been a spate of Koran burnings in Denmark and in Sweden which have caused a lot of angst amongst these groups.

I don't know if that's -- these arrests are in any way related to that. But the fact is that there are -- that Denmark has suddenly faced these kinds of jihadist terrorist threats in the past. And here we seem to be again.

BROWN: So I just want to follow up with you, Peter, because Germany is saying these are actual Hamas operatives. It's unclear, on the other arrest, whether they were acting on behalf of Hamas as sympathizers or actual operatives.

But does that matter? Is that a distinction without a difference? Or does it matter to determine whether they were just sympathizers trying to help Hamas' cause versus actual operatives attached to Hamas?

BERGEN: I mean, if a bomb goes off, it's a distinction without a difference to the victims.

On the other hand, I think as a sort of -- as a legal matter, and as an intelligence matter, if people are actually bona fide members of Hamas, the terrorist organization, most countries -- many countries have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization.

Belonging to it, raising money for it is illegal in a lot of countries. And so there is certainly a legal distinction to be made. If you're simply a sympathizer without being part of the organization, that would change the legal framework around which you might be prosecuted., certainly if you were in the United States.

But, also, many European countries also have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization. So I don't -- I do think it matters as a legal matter.

SANCHEZ: Peter Bergen, thank you so much for the analysis.

BERGEN: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL: Donald Trump sharpening his message for caucus-goers in Iowa. Hear what he's saying to try to galvanize Republican support in the Hawkeye State.

And CNN the first U.S. news organization the ground in Gaza without an Israeli escort. What we're hearing from the injured inside a field hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: "The world isn't listening to us," she says. "Nobody cares about us. We have been dying for over 60 days, dying from the bombing. And nobody did anything."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[13:17:19]

SANCHEZ: We are fewer than five weeks away from the Iowa caucuses.

And despite dominating in the polls, former President Donald Trump took his campaign to the Hawkeye State for the third time this month, telling voters not to take his front-runner status for granted. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are leading by a lot, but you have to go out and vote.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Because so much means -- going out -- the margin of victory is very important. It's just very important, even for foreign countries watching. But it's very important. That margin of victory is so, so powerful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us live with more on the Trump campaign's final push in Iowa.

Kristen, what is Trump's message leading up to the caucuses?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Pam and Boris, look, first of all, let's just talk about what he just said, because this is something that Trump's team really fundamentally believes. When they talk about that margin, they do want that margin to look like the "Des Moines Register" poll, which had him at 51 percent and DeSantis at 19 percent, because they believe that will help him build momentum going into New Hampshire and eventually South Carolina.

Now, in terms of what his message was directly to Iowans, he really wanted to push forward, saying this wasn't just about the primary, but about the general election, hoping to galvanize voters by really using Joe Biden's unpopularity and sending a message that, if you were happier -- this is to Iowa caucus-goers -- when I was in office, then you should vote for me again at the caucus.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: During this holiday season, families all across America are struggling under the brutal weight of Bidenomics. You know Bidenomics. It means a lot of bad things.

This year alone, the typical American family is $7,500 poorer because crooked Joe's globalist blunders and greedy betrayals have really hurt us badly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, if he is to win the nomination, his team does believe the economy would be a very big argument for them.

However, obviously, we have seen that the Dow is surging. The big question is, there still a year to go before the general. Donald Trump would still have to win the nomination. How would that impact people's wallets ahead of a general election? That's really going to be the case as we head into that season.

SANCHEZ: Kristen Holmes, thanks so much for the reporting.

Let's get some analysis now with former Trump White House Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Matthews and former Biden 2020 campaign senior adviser Alencia Johnson.

Thank you both so much for being here.

Sarah, we should point out you're not backing your former boss in the primary. You're behind former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley.

I'm wondering, though, if Donald Trump wins Iowa by 20 or 30 points, the way that polls are trending right now, is this race over?

[13:20:00]

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Obviously, we're still going to have other voting contests after that.

Nikki Haley is performing well in New Hampshire and in South Carolina right now. So, I think that her best bet is to bank on those states. Obviously, in somewhere like Iowa, the vote is pretty divided because Ron DeSantis is polling well there as well.

But his campaign is now kind of a one state strategy solely focused on Iowa. Chris Christie, who's still in the race, has a one-state strategy solely focused on New Hampshire. But Nikki Haley is at play in multiple states.

Unfortunately, I don't know if it's going to be enough to overtake Trump. Right now, there's still too many people in the race. And even if all these other folks dropped out and backed Nikki Haley, his lead just might be too commanding for them to overtake her.

But I have long said that the best way to defeat Donald Trump in the primary is to have one alternative to challenge him. And, right now, it seems like no one's going to drop out and coalesce around that one person.

SANCHEZ: Alencia, on the other side, a president going into a reelection effort never wants to be associated with the word impeachment, right?

But, paradoxically, this could wind up helping Joe Biden.

ALENCIA JOHNSON, FORMER BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Yes, it absolutely could help Joe Biden, because a lot of American people see this as a political sham investigation.

And what we're paying attention to are those 18 Republican members of Congress who were elected in Biden-held districts, right? They voted for this inquiry. That might be helpful for them to get Republican donors to help them with their reelection campaign.

However, for Democrats, that is motivation for us in the general election, the reelection next year, to make sure that they have to be held accountable for this. Additionally, American people are concerned about Congress doing something around the economy. They are concerned about what's happening around abortion rights, voting rights.

The list goes on and on and on. And so these sham investigations versus actually having a conversation about the American people want does help Democrats in the long run.

BROWN: And you mentioned abortion rights. Of course, that has been very motivating for Democrats. It looks like the so-called soft landing to avoid a recession could happen.

And then you have Biden running against a likely winner of the Republican nominee, Donald Trump, who has nearly 100 criminal charges, right, who said he's going to be a dictator on day one for one day. You got to take out his word.

JOHNSON: Absolutely.

BROWN: Why is Biden -- how do you explain why how Biden is still running behind, though, from Trump, if you look at some of the latest polls?

JOHNSON: Yes, look, polling this early on, it still doesn't have a key -- a full indicator of how voters are going to vote come a year from now. A lot of things can happen within this year.

I will say I think it is a compounded poll that we are looking at. If you take Biden out of the equation and look at the issues that the Democratic Party platform stands on, those are winning issue. There -- issues.

There are concerns with President Biden that I do think he can overcome. And voters are taking that into account as they're responding to some of this polling. I will say this. Should the campaign be extremely worried? I wouldn't say so. But I do think the Biden reelection campaign has to pay attention to these numbers and adjust accordingly and listen to our coalition, our very diverse coalition that has some very real concerns.

SANCHEZ: Sarah, going back to Donald Trump for a moment, we have some sound from former House Speaker Paul Ryan. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI): Historically speaking, all of his tendencies are basically where narcissism takes him, which is whatever makes him popular makes him feel good at any given moment, and he doesn't think in classical liberal, conservative terms.

He thinks in an authoritarian way, and he's been able to get a big chunk of the Republican base to follow him, because he's the culture warrior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: How significant is that attachment that certain voters have to Donald Trump?

Because Ryan mentions culture warrior. Ron DeSantis is running on culture war issues, but he's not having the same kind of penetration with those voters. What do you think would work for someone like Ron DeSantis at this point?

MATTHEWS: I think it's almost too little too late for someone like Ron DeSantis. Obviously, we have seen him become more aggressive in his attacks against Donald Trump.

But I wish he was doing that six to nine months ago, when he was pulling ahead of Donald Trump. But he kind of let Donald Trump define him and create this narrative around him. And I think he was largely untested on a national scale, and we have seen kind of his personality come forward and him tend to be a bit awkward with voters.

So I don't know if there's anything that he can do to course-correct at this point. But I do want to say, on former Speaker Paul Ryan's comments, that when he says things like Donald Trump is an authoritarian narcissist, he's saying publicly what a lot of Republicans feel privately.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MATTHEWS: And so I commend him for coming forward and saying these things now.

And I know it sounds a bit alarmist to people at home when they hear the word authoritarian being thrown around, but we need to be paying close attention to what Donald Trump is saying on the campaign trail. I think voters have become a little bit desensitized to his crazy statements.

[13:25:03]

But he is using authoritarian rhetoric, saying things like, let's do away with parts of the Constitution, that he's going to weaponize the DOJ to enact revenge on his enemies.

And so I think that it's encouraging to see Republicans like the former speaker come forward and highlight these things. But, obviously, Donald Trump still has a hold on the base, which is about 30 to 40 percent of the Republican Party. So it will be tough to defeat him in a primary.

JOHNSON: And then are any of these Republicans going to get behind Joe Biden if Donald Trump becomes the nomination?

So, they can continue to make these cases about who Donald Trump will be, but then what are they going to do in the general? Are they going to support the Democrat? Because that's the only other option.

BROWN: That's true.

All right, thank you so much, Sarah Matthews and Alencia Johnson. Thank you.

Still ahead, a CNN exclusive: U.S. intelligence finds nearly half of the Israeli munitions dropped on Gaza are imprecise dumb bombs, this as the president's national security adviser meets with the Israeli war cabinet to discuss efforts to be more surgical and targeting of Hamas.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We will be right back.

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