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Israel Dropping "Dumb Bombs" On Gaza; White House Briefing As National Security Adviser Visits Israel; CNN Gets Rare, Independent Access Into Southern Gaza; Humanitarian Groups Plead For Ceasefire In Gaza; Dow Muscles Higher, Adding To Thursday's Record. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 14, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:30]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Dumb bombs and how imprecise they have been, right?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: So, Boris, what we have learned is that there's a U.S. intelligence assessment compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

And described to my colleague, Natasha Bertrand, and I that says that 40 to 45 percent of the surface-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza since the start of this conflict have been unguided munitions, so-called gravity bombs or dumb bombs.

Experts that we spoke to emphasized that dumb bombs are less precise and pose a greater danger to the civilian population on the ground than do precision-guided munitions.

And particularly, in a place as densely populated as Gaza where the difference in life and death can be the matter of few feet, right? It's one of the reasons why the United States has phased out their own use of unguided munitions over the past decade.

And so for some of the current and former U.S. officials that we spoke to, what they say is that Israel's heavy reliance on these unguided munitions really strains the credibility of they're saying that they are doing everything they can to protect civilian life on the ground.

Now I should emphasize that there are ways to make unguided munitions more precise, in particular through sort of pairing them with a -- with a kind of tail fin with sort of a targeting tip or tail that you can put on them.

But it's not clear at this point how many of these Israel has, is it using them, and what are the rules of engagement? What do they consider to be the acceptable level of potential civilian casualties for anyone strike.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And you've been talking to experts. I'm wondering what the reaction is in terms of the number. Nearly half of the bombs are these dumb bombs, according to your reporting.

Are they surprised by how high that number is?

LILLIS: We spoke to both outside experts as well as some U.S. officials within the U.S. government who say that that is an extraordinarily high number.

Now one U.S. official that we spoke to did say that one thing that Israel is doing to try to make this a more precise method is to use a delivery method called dive bombing, where they are literally just getting closer to the target before they release the munition.

How effective that is, that's disputed?

SANCHEZ: Katie Bo Lillis, thank you so much for the reporting.

We want to take you straight to the White House now where the spokesperson for the National Security Council, John Kirby, is addressing questions about casualties killed in Gaza,

Let's listen.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- the U.S. consider support for Israel?

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: It's a great hypothetical. I'm not going to engage.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You also said that the U.S. is also remaining committed to try to get back to the table to broker a potential pause and negotiations to get hostages out.

But the Israeli government called off the trip ahead of the travel to restart the hostage negotiations. Saying they felt the conditions are not right. Does the U.S. agree with that assessment?

KIRBY: We are still working by the hour to try to get a call back in place so that hostages can get released. I'll let the Israelis speak to their negotiators, and where they, and what they are going to focus on.

I can tell you one of the things Jake is doing in the region, I mean, if you need proof that we still want to see a pause, just look at where the national advisor is today.

I mean, we are engaging at all levels to try to get that back in place, and we still believe it's possible.

I just want to follow up on the west bank violence. 275 people have been killed, there including 12 over the past three days.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: John, I just want to follow up on the -- (INAUDIBLE). Apparently, 225 people have been killed there since October 7th and -- (INAUDIBLE) -- just the last three days --

[13:35:05] SANCHEZ: We've been listening to National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby at the White House. He was asked by CNN White House correspondent, Arlette Saenz, about the status of negotiations to release more hostages from Gaza.

Former Rear Admiral John Kirby saying that negotiations are still underway. They are trying to get them restarted. The administration engaging at all levels to try to institute a pause to hostilities in Gaza and get the hostages out.

We will, of course, keep monitoring the story to bring you the very latest.

We should note that the Israeli military says that since October 7th, it has hit more than 22,000 targets in Gaza, an enclave that's just about 25 miles long and seven miles wide.

Tens of thousands of civilians have been caught in the middle, either wounded or killed.

BROWN: Today, we are going to take you inside one hospital in Gaza that is treating some of the survivors. CNN is the first Western media outlet to be given independent access to southern Gaza without an Israeli military escort.

Here's CNN's Clarissa Ward.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

WARD (voice-over): Arriving at the Emirati field hospital, we meet Dr. Abdullah Al-Naqbi. No sooner does our tour begin when --

(EXPLOSION)

WARD (on camera): And this is what you hear all the time now?

DR. ABDULLAH AL-NAQBI, UAE FIELD HOSPITAL: Yes, at least 20 times a day.

WARD: At least 20 times a day.

AL-NAQBI: Maybe more sometimes. I think we're used to it.

WARD (voice-over): One thing none of the doctors here have gotten used to is the number of children they are treating. The U.N. estimates that some two-thirds of those killed in this round of the conflict have been women and children.

And 8-old-year Jinan (ph) was lucky enough to survive a strike on her family home that crushed her femur but spared her immediate family. JINAN, GAZA RESIDENT: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WARD (on camera): She says she's not in pain. So that's cool.

HIBA, GAZA RESIDENT: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WARD (voice-over): Her mother, Hiba (ph), was out when it happened.

"I went to the hospital to look for her," she says. "And I came here and I found her here. The doctors told me what happened with her and I made sure that she's OK, thank God."

JINAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WARD: "They bombed the house in front of us and then our home," Jinan tells us. "I was sitting next to my grandfather. And my grandfather held me. And my uncle was fine. So he is the one who took us out."

(on camera): Don't cry.

(voice-over): But Dr. Ahmed Almazrouei says it is hard not to.

DR. AHMED ALMAZROUEI, UAE FIELD HOSPITAL: I work with all people, like adults, but the children, something touching your heart.

WARD: Touches your heart and tests your faith in humanity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Our thanks to Clarissa Ward for that reporting. We will be speaking to her at 3:00 p.m. Eastern for a more extensive view of her coverage in Gaza. So stay tuned for that.

Right now, we want to dig deeper with Samah Hadid. She's the head of advocacy for the Middle East, for the Norwegian Refugee Council.

Samah, thank you so much for spending part of your afternoon with us.

Your organization with five other major humanitarian groups wrote about Gazan this week in a "New York Times" opinion piece.

And in it, the groups write that even for organizations like yours, which often see human suffering up close, you've, quote, "seen nothing like the siege of Gaza."

Help us understand why.

SAMAH HADID, HEAD OF ADVOCACY FOR THE MIDDLE EAST, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: Well, the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza just worsens by the day. The suffering is growing. And it's immense. It cannot be described anymore.

Hundreds of thousands of people are in overcrowded shelters, tens of thousands of people are on the streets of southern Gaza under constant bombardment. We are now incredibly worried about the winter period. Almost 1.9 million people who are displaced ,who don't have adequate shelter, who are facing starvation, who are at risk now of disease.

We have already seen heavy rains compound of the human suffering in Gaza and so we really fear now that this winter period, which will be catastrophic.

This comes as the health system has collapsed. The outbreak of disease threatens more lives, in addition to the ongoing bombardments that has lasted for months now.

[13:40:01]

With the ongoing violence and the hostilities, the humanitarian system is at risk of total collapse in Gaza.

And so we are pleading with the international community to end the violence, two and the suffering so that we can save lives, so that lifesaving aid can reach people in desperate need.

SANCHEZ: Samah, walk us through what the NRCC is doing right now in Gaza.

HADID: We are providing assistance in the form of blankets, mattresses, supporting people to get through winter and providing other essential items.

It's not enough. Not enough aid is coming through into Gaza because of the restrictions. The Rafah crossing is simply not enough to allow the amount of aid that is required to meet the scale of needs that we've seen across Gaza.

So we desperately need all crossings to be fully opened into Gaza, so that aid supplies can come in. But humanitarian aid is simply not enough.

We need to see more commercial goods and supplies also enter so that markets can be restored, so that services can be restored to help people survive now, but also in the future.

But above all else, we desperately need a ceasefire so that people can get access to life-saving aid that is really needed right now and so that millions can be protected.

SANCHEZ: Samah, I want to point out, in the op-ed, the groups mentioned a fear that this crisis is becoming normalized in the eyes of the world. That's a from the piece.

It appears that President Biden has a different perspective. According to our recent reporting, he privately told supporters that he believes that Israel is actually going to lose global support.

Do you get any sense that the situation may soon start to shift?

HADID: Well, unfortunately, it's not shifting fast enough. People are suffering on a widespread scale. Already, we've seen widespread destruction across Gaza, immense loss of life. Children in the thousands have been killed.

So enough is enough. We need to see a dramatic shift from Israel, from allies of Israel, including the U.S. government, to allow a scale up of aid, to allow civilians to be protected, to allow people in Gaza to survive on the day to day.

The destruction, the displacement, the human suffering is simply on bearable, and it needs to and.

SANCHEZ: Samah Hadid, we very much appreciate you sharing your perspective with us. Thanks.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just a moment.

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[13:47:32]

SANCHEZ: There are some fresh signs of life in the U.S. economy. Americans spending big in November. That sent retail sales jumping for the month. Surprising experts and sending another positive signal for the economy.

BROWN: It is helping the Dow power even higher, adding to its gains on top of last night's record.

Let's bring in CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich.

What's the latest on mortgage rates? So many Americans want to know.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. Some good news on that front.

So rents fell by 2 percent in November year over year. That's the biggest drop we have seen since February of 2020. That is encouraging news for renters. Not quite where we were pre-pandemic, but still a little bit more affordable.

Also on mortgage rates, just this afternoon, we are seeing mortgage rates dipped below 7 percent for the first time since August. Also encouraging for first time home buyers.

Just to note that this data we just got actually doesn't really include the decisions that the Fed made yesterday about pausing rate hikes in the new year but also potentially cutting rates in the new year.

So we could see rents fall even more, we could see mortgages fall even more, as we head into 2024. Some really good news for Americans.

BROWN: We welcome that good news, for sure.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BROWN: Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much.

[13:48:54]

Still ahead, an experimental vaccine for cancer. We will have new details on a new trial with some promising results. We'll be right back.

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[13:53:41]

BROWN: An experimental cancer vaccine is driving change in the fight against melanoma. A trial for an mRNA vaccine from Moderna shows that when combined with the immunotherapy, the vaccine shows benefits for patients with high-risk forms of the skin cancer.

SANCHEZ: Yes. CNN medical correspondent, Meg Tirrell, joins us now.

Meg, tell us more about what the trial discovered.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a really cool science. It really is very similar to Moderna's mRNA vaccines for Covid but, this time, they' actually doing a personalized approach to help patients treat their cancer.

What do they do is they look at what's driving the melanoma, and they constructed personalized mRNA vaccine that then trains that a person's immune system to better recognize and fight the cancer.

They found that when they combine this approach with an existing immunotherapy drug called Keytruda that that reduced the risk of the cancer recurring or of death by 49 percent out of a three-year follow- up in this study.

And so in terms of side effects, those kinds of things, those are also similar to what we see with the Covid vaccine, fatigue, chills, injection site pain.

So there's a lot of hope that mRNA vaccines could actually improve cancer treatment as well -- guys?

BROWN: It seems like a big breakthrough.

SANCHEZ: Yes, it's huge.

So, Meg, when can this be made available?

TIRRELL: Well, they are in late-stage clinical trials right now in melanoma.

[13:54:59]

I talked with the CEO of Moderna this morning. He said they are preparing for potential accelerated approval as early as 2025. Actually building a new manufacturing plant to be able to do those personalized therapies as soon as that year. And melanoma is not the only space where they're working. They're also running late-state trials in lung cancer as well.

So a lot of hope for the space overall -- guys.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Definitely, a lot of reasons to be hopeful.

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SANCHEZ: Meg Tirrell, thank you so much.

We're continuing to follow the breaking news. Alleged Hamas operatives arrested in Europe. Officials accusing them of a terror plot against Jewish sites. The latest details after a quick break. Stay with CNN.

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