Return to Transcripts main page
CNN News Central
Interview with Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR); Stocks Push Higher, Mortgage Rates Fall; 4 Innocent Prisoners Exonerated In 3 Days; Warriors' Draymond Green Suspended Indefinitely After Altercation. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired December 14, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:11]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: To Capitol Hill now where the odds of Congress passing a deal to provide new aid to Ukraine and Israel is not looking great.
There is a sliver of hope though. CNN has learned that Majority Leader Chuck Schumer may let Senators leave the capitol today, but they must return on Monday.
Still, this morning, two of the top Republican negotiators, Senator Lindsey Graham and John Thune, said they doubt a deal will be possible before the end of the year.
Let's discuss the status of these talks with Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon. He's a member of the Foreign Relations Committee as well, we should note.
Senator, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Lawmakers are divided right now as to whether a deal is going to get hammered out. I'm wondering, what is your sense of things, where they stand right now? Are you and your colleagues ready to stay until the holiday?
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Here's the vision, which is that the team from both sides was working, along with the administration, until three 3:00 a.m. this morning.
They decided they had made enough progress that they have a fair chance, a fair chance of hammering out a complete framework over the weekend to have that ready for Monday, not the legislative language but the framework.
And that, simultaneously, they will be working on putting the legislative language.
It's a very complicated undertaking. The best we can consider is a 50/50 proposition whether we can get this done. But absolutely we are willing to be here.
We will lose momentum on this incredibly important legislation if folks will go home for the holidays, and we are not coming back until January 8th. We have to secure this funding for Ukraine.
SANCHEZ: What about Senators like Tom Cotton who say both sides are still very far apart? They do not share your optimism.
MERKLEY: If you say the odds are 50/50, and enough that Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer and the president think they have a fair chance of hammering out for Monday, well, they are the leaders. So I will go with that.
I want to say something optimistic here. I mean, nobody is claiming we've got the deal done.
But think about how important this is. If we fail to fund Ukraine, then essentially, those who are opposing it are saying to Vladimir Putin you can take Ukraine.
This is chamberlain goes to Munich and tells Hitler he can take a chunk of Czechoslovakia. We cannot let that happen. We cannot have Putin appeasement carry the day.
SANCHEZ: Some Democrats think the White House has made a mistake, locking itself into a corner by pairing the critical aid to Ukraine and Israel with a contentious issue like immigration, which Congress hasn't agreed on.
Do you think President Biden made a mistake bundling these together and potentially giving Republicans huge concessions on this issue?
MERKLEY: You know, he made the decision to put the funding for the borders, some $14 billion, really an answer to Republicans requests that we address all the borders together, the Ukrainian borders, the Israeli borders, our borders.
What that was met with is, hey, thank you very much, but now we want to do Steve Miller-style policies to essentially round up people across America and throw them out of our country.
And just things, like separating children from their parents. Things that are unacceptable.
Clearly, we have to work hard to figure out how we can address the surging folks coming to the border. The real issue that we have to deal with, some 10,000 people coming a day, but how we deal with it.
I'm kind of glad I'm not the person in the room trying to figure this out. I know how complicated policy on the border is.
SANCHEZ: Yes, and how divisive it can be, even within your own party.
MERKLEY: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: To that point, the White House has voiced some support for expanding and expulsion authority, something like Title 42, which let officials quickly turn back migrants during Covid.
Biden has reportedly also considered raising the credible fear standard for asylum seekers, increasing deportations.
Some in your party think these steps could hurt President Biden with his base and limit his chances of getting reelected. Do you share those concerns?
MERKLEY: What has been conveyed to us is that many of the public reports are not accurate. We do not have the details directly from the administration.
Certainly, there are immigration majors, I would be deeply disturbed by, but I will hold and see what the outlines of a deal look like if a deal can be brought together.
And I know that we do have a very real challenge. The president said let's invest a lot of money to do things like more security at the border.
[14:35:06]
Have case managers who make sure that people show up to their hearings. Reduce the wait time for asylums. It should not be four years. It should be six months. He made a lot of steps forward.
All of those pieces are pieces I can agree with. But what else gets put on the table? I think we will have to wait and see.
SANCHEZ: I want to focus on the question of an end to the war in Ukraine, because last night, Vladimir Putin argued that Ukraine has to agree to peace on Moscow's terms or he would have to, quote, "solve the problem with force."
A few weeks ago, "The Washington Post" reported the Biden administration privately encouraged Ukraine to, quote, "signal an openness to negotiate with Russia and to drop their refusal to engage in peace talks."
Is that the right move now given that public support for Ukraine appears to be waning and there is a logjam in Congress?
MERKLEY: This is why we have to send the aid to Ukraine. We know Europe is ready to continue in this partnership. All the democracies have to stay together to defend the people of Ukraine against the aggression from Russia.
But it's not just about that. If we fail Ukraine, every dictator in the world is going to want to take a slice of the neighboring country. We saw that unfold --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Senator, I understand that.
But I just want clarity on the reporting that the White House is encouraging Ukraine to signal to the Kremlin that they are open to having a conversation toward some kind of an arrangement that would end the war.
Is that the right move when Vladimir Putin is essentially saying that it is peace on his terms or else?
MERKLEY: So it's a complicated question. Let's look at it this way. There has essentially been a stalemate for months. At some point in every battle there is a point when people begin to say it's time to see if we can reach an agreement.
If that is what the administration is saying that you have to be open to thinking about that possibility, then I think that's right.
But understand this. Right now, I am very concerned that we are not at a point where Ukraine can strike that deal, and that Putin is not at a point where he can strike that deal.
Putin is saying I can outlast you all, and the signals we are sending to Ukraine is encouraging Putin. In fact, Russia has been putting up media thanking Republican Senators for undermining the Ukrainians.
That should send a signal to us that we are not helping the prospect of peace by slow walking this support for Ukraine.
SANCHEZ: Senator Jeff Merkley, we very much appreciate you sharing your time. Please keep us posted on --
MERKLEY: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: -- how negotiations are going.
MERKLEY: Thank you, Boris.
SANCHEZ: Take care.
Still ahead, are there real reasons for optimism when it comes to the U.S. economy next year? We are seeing positive new reports on housing and retail sales as the Dow heads towards another record high.
And another important story we have been following, a recent flurry of people exonerated after having spent years in prison. Two more men in California have now been set free after collectively spending decades behind bars. We will bring you their story in just a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:42:31]
SANCHEZ: The Dow is pushing further into record territory today as we take a live look. It has added some 70-plus points to last night's record close.
That is after news that retail sales jumped in November, surprising economists, with cheaper gas freeing up money for spending.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And of course, the background is that the Fed is pivoting into a more positive mode.
Joining us now with how that breaks down is CNN's Matt Egan.
Matt, what is the latest when it comes to housing mortgage rates are falling and landlords are finally lowering the rent, too, right?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Boris and Pamela, we know the high cost of living is really the main reason why a lot of voters say they just don't like the economy. But we are starting to see some glimmers of hope.
Good news for home buyers because mortgage rates have now fallen for seven weeks in a row, dipping below 7 percent for the first time since August.
Now it's not cheap to get a mortgage. Three years ago, mortgage rates were historically low. We may never see sub-3 percent mortgage rates again.
But things are starting to move in the right direction. And this trend could continue because the Fed is preparing to start cutting interest rates, perhaps as soon as March.
Renters are also starting to catch a little bit of a break. The median asking rent fell by 2 percent year over year in November. That is the biggest drop since 2020, being driven by a building boom that is starting to increase vacancies.
So that means, for all you renters out there, you may finally start to have a little more bargaining power with your landlords. And that, of course, is good news of course.
SANCHEZ: That means more free cash for Christmas presents or holiday presents. Probably a good idea to gather those right about now.
Matt, you mentioned the Federal Reserve potentially cutting rates next year. How much of that has to do with what we are seeing on Wall Street?
EGAN: Boris, that is the big reason why investors are celebrating. Wall Street reacted with basically the equivalent of a standing ovation yesterday when the Fed penciled in interest rate cuts for next year.
We saw the Dow zoom over the 37,000 level for the first time ever. You look at that, and the market is on track for another record high. We have not seen record highs since January 2022.
What is funny is that despite all of this gloom and doom about the economy, it has been a blockbuster year for the stock market. You look at the Dow, it's up 12 percent year to date from just two weeks ago. The S&P 500 is up 24 percent. The NASDAQ is up 40 percent.
[14:44:57]
And we know the stock market is not the economy, but I do think that these monster returns on Wall Street should give us all a reason to be cautiously optimistic about 2024.
Because rate cuts mean cheaper borrowing costs. So it would be easier to wipe credit card debt, get a mortgage, buy a car. And it also will lower the risk of a recession.
And the fact that the Fed has started to talk about rate cuts means that Fed officials are confident that this inflation crisis is just about over.
SANCHEZ: High potential for a soft landing.
Matt Egan, thanks so much for the reporting.
Pivoting now to some really eye-opening reports. Four exonerations in three days. These cases are bringing renewed attention to America's shameful number of wrong convictions. The latest exonerations happened in California and involved two separate murder cases.
BROWN: CNN's security correspondent, Josh Campbell, is in Los Angeles with the details.
Josh, one common theme in all four of these latest exaggerations, police relied on a specific type of evidence. Tell us more.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Pam. Faulty witness testimony. That is the blue line in all four of these recently announced exonerations.
Now witnesses are obviously important investigative tools. When someone is at the scene of the crime, police want to know what they saw.
But there's danger when police focus on just one witness statement, and perhaps exclude other evidence, which is what prosecutors say happened in these cases.
In one case announced yesterday, a man named Miguel Solorio had been in prison for 25 years. When authorities say it was a botched photo lineup that led to authorities arresting the wrong person.
In the second case, a man who was 14 at the time, Giovanni Hernandez, he told police he was nowhere near the scene of the crime, but a witness said they thought they saw him there.
The prosecutors actually brought in the FBI that did a forensic examination of this phone and determined he wasn't there. His phone and him were both at home, which is what he claimed all along.
So that just goes to show you how this witness testimony can be so flawed.
Now both men, along with their advocates, spoke yesterday describing what this ordeal has been like.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIGUEL SOLORIO, EXONERATED: I was wrongfully convicted of a murder I had no knowledge of. I was only 19 years old.
SARAH PACE, NORTHERN CALIFORNIA INNOCENT PROJECT: Miguel's wrongful conviction and wrongful imprisonment were the result of law enforcement's tunnel vision, putting their own judgment of guilt or innocence above the facts.
GIOVANNI HERNANDEZ, EXONERATED: My case, Miguel's case, are not unique. There are still more people in there who are innocent of a crime they did not commit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMPBELL: Pam and Boris, it's worth pointing out that none of these reversed convictions happened because of law enforcement. This was the work of public defenders and nonprofits and advocates who work to ensure that people are not being held unjustly.
They are the ones who brought this to the attention of the D.A., who then took another look.
I can tell you that I worked in law enforcement, I put a lot of people behind bars, but law enforcement officers are not infallible.
Which is why it's so important these outside groups are essentially checking the work of the police to ensure that people don't go to jail for crimes they do not commit.
BROWN: Yes. It's just outrageous they were behind bars for all that time, given everything you laid out. Thank goodness for all their hard work, those advocates who worked to get them released.
Josh Campbell, thank you so much.
CAMPBELL: You bet.
BROWN: Also, stick around, because, next hour, we will be speaking with one of those four Americans exonerated this week. Brian Beals was just freed after spending 35 years in prison for a murder he did not commit.
And still ahead, a rare and definite suspension in the NBA. Golden State Warriors' Draymond Green suspended again for his on-court behavior. This time, for striking a Phoenix Suns player. What the league is saying about what the controversial big man has to do before returning to the court. Up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:53:15]
BROWN: And now to some of the other headlines we are watching this hour. A group of current and former Alabama prisoners have filed a federal
lawsuit calling the state prison system a modern-day form of slavery, forcing prisoners to work for little to no compensation.
The suit claims this practice has resulted in an estimated $450 million in annual profits for the state and private companies since 2018. The attorney general's office and Correction's Department had no comment on the lawsuit.
And in Atlanta, federal, state and local law enforcement agencies are offering a $200,000 reward for finding a, quote, "very small group of people" accused of setting fires to protest the public training center called Cop City.
A mid-morning snarl for train passengers between New Jersey and New York after a bull -- you heard that right -- a bull showed up on the tracks, bringing service to a halt.
Police were able to get it into a fenced lot without incident or injury. And officials, well, they don't know where that bull came from and say it'll go to a local animal sanctuary.
SANCHEZ: It must have taken the wrong train.
BROWN: Yes --
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Now to some big stories on the NBA court. Starting with Golden State Warrior star, Draymond Green, who has now been suspended by the league indefinitely.
BROWN: CNN's Andy Scholes has the details.
What happened here, Andy?
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Pam and Boris, this is the NBA basically saying we have had enough of the antics. The latest coming Tuesday when Draymond clocked Jusuf Nurkic in the game against the Phoenix Suns.
Afterwards, he didn't really admit to what he did. He said it was an accident. And everyone kind of side eyed that like, come on, Draymond, we've seen this so many times before.
[14:55:01]
You know, earlier this year, he was suspended five games for choking Rudy Gobert in the game against the Timberwolves. You remember the last playoffs, he got suspended for stomping on Domantas Sabonis' chest.
This time around, it wasn't one game or five games. This time the NBA said this is going to be an indefinite suspension, Draymond, until you figure out how to stop this.
He's going to have to meet team and league requirements before he's reinstated onto the Warriors' roster. When that is, guys, who knows. It sounds like it's going to be more than five and some people are speculating it could be 15 to 20.
BROWN: All right. Andy, thanks so much.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Andy from his backyard maybe? It looks lovely behind you.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: It looks like we might see some deer frolicking in the background.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHOLES: It is a nice day.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much.
BROWN: Thanks so much, Andy.
Still ahead, European authorities arrested multiple terror suspects. We're following the breaking news coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
