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IDF Says It Mistakenly Killed 3 Israeli Hostages; Interview with Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD); Terror Suspects Arrested In Europe, 4 More Still At Large; CDC Urges Americans To Get Vaccinated As Flu, Covid, RSV Cases Rise. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 15, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Which we know, as the war was beginning, those rules of engagement were, indeed, loosened, we know that as Israeli forces were preparing to move into northern Gaza.

One of the ways in which the Israeli military officials have talked to me about how they plan to move in was, effectively, to view any people they saw in northern Gaza as a threat.

Even as they insisted that they would try to distinguish between civilians and militants.

But in this case, these loosened rules of engagement perhaps may have been partly to blame for what we are seeing here. Of course, we do not know that for certain. We do not know exactly what has happened.

But we do know the Israeli military has been operating in very, very intense combat. Several Israeli soldiers have been killed in fighting in that area earlier this week.

And now, apparently, Boris, tragically, three Israeli hostages are also among the dozen.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A tragic update from our Jeremy Diamond in Sderot. Three hostages being held by Hamas mistakenly identified as threats by the IDF and subsequently killed.

Jeremy Diamond, please keep us up to date with what you're learning about exactly what happened here.

We, of course, will continue to monitor this story and bring you the latest updates.

Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, let's discuss with Democratic Senator, Chris Van Hollen, from Maryland.

Senator, I want to start with your reaction to this news that the IDF mistakenly killed three Israeli hostages.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Pamela, it is an incredible tragedy, as you just reported. My heart goes out to those families.

It is essential that all of the hostages be released. As you know, there's also been an ongoing debate in Israel about whether or not the release of the hostages should be a priority.

President Biden, rightly, in my view, said that we really need to focus on the release of the hostages. There are many parts of the right-wing Netanyahu government in Israel that have prioritized the release of the hostages.

And I am sure that this will open up that debate, again.

BROWN: Right now, on Capitol Hill, as you well know, there is an ongoing debate about the U.S. providing more aid to Israel, as well as Ukraine.

Of course, Republicans want the aid to Ukraine tied with more restrictions on the border, right, integration, comprehensive immigration.

Where do things stand after this morning's meeting with Secretary Mayorkas? What is the timeline, as you understand it?

VAN HOLLEN: Two things, Pamela. First of all, it is essential that we provide additional military assistance to the people of Ukraine. They are in the fight of their lives.

They are spilling blood. Their people are losing their lives in defense of their freedom. And it would be a huge discredit to the United States if we walked away from them at this point. We need to get that done.

Republicans in the Congress have linked that to border security talks. Those are ongoing.

I should point out that President Biden's proposal that is before the Congress right now already includes lots of resources for additional border security, including new machines to screen Fentanyl and catch and identify and stop Fentanyl from coming into the United States.

But those talks are ongoing right now. It is imperative that we provide the people of Ukraine with the military assistance they need to fight off Putin.

BROWN: On that note, CNN is reporting that Western officials think Ukraine is certain to fail as Kyiv does not get more aid from the U.S.

You heard Democratic Congressman, Mike Quigley, saying that there will be a domino effect of the U.S. decreases aid to Ukraine. The concern is that other allies would pull out.

Is that how you see it?

VAN HOLLEN: I think that there is a real concern. One thing for sure is the Ukrainians will fight on. President Zelenskyy was clear when he met with us in the Senate recently, they will keep fighting. But their ability to fight off Putin will be dramatically diminished.

So, it is a big risk that if the United States does not continue to provide support, then others will also step back.

That will not only be a loss for the people of Ukraine, it will be a huge loss to U.S. leadership around the world and U.S. credibility around the world. Our allies won't believe us anymore when we say we will stand with them.

And that will be true not only of our allies in Europe but around the world, including in East Asia. The flipside is that authoritarian leaders like President Xi of China will be emboldened.

So this is a really important historical moment and a big moment for American leadership.

BROWN: Be emboldened as it pertains to Taiwan, I am assuming you are trying to say.

[13:34:57]

So, you know, I think the big question for some Americans who are sitting at home wondering, why is the U.S. continuing to fund this war that has been going on for so long? You know, what is your message to them? What does it look like if Ukraine fails?

VAN HOLLEN: It would be a complete collapse of those forces that are fighting back against the tyranny and against Putin's aggression.

And what it would mean is folks around the world would see Putin and authoritarianism on the rise. And democracy and the rule of law on the decline.

That would, clearly, be a huge loss for the people of the United States. And that is really what is at stake here.

Now what really worries me is that you've got many members of Congress here who seem not to recognize this moment. In Moscow, you have Vladimir Putin and his allies actually applauding Republican members of Congress for blocking aid to Ukraine.

So whether they recognize it or not, they are aiding and abetting Putin's attack on freedom and democracy in Ukraine. And, in fact, by extension, the attack on democracy around the world.

And of course, Trump has also been front and center in that effort to undermine democracy here at home and around the world.

BROWN: When you talk to Republicans, what do they say, if you talk to them about?

Do you think your glossing of the consequences? Do you think Democrats and some Republicans, like Mitch McConnell, need to do a better job explaining to the everyday American about why they should care about this?

Why they should still care and why this is so important for the United States, and democracy, at large.

VAN HOLLEN: I think that we all have an obligation to do a better job, Pamela, of explaining what is at stake in this moment.

There have been other very important times in world history. We, of course, had the Munich moment when Hitler was emboldened.

We need to recognize that this is a moment where, if we do not collectively stand up against Putin, he will be further emboldened throughout the region. But as we were saying earlier, so will autocrats around the world.

Yes, I was referring to President Xi who has one eye on Taiwan as he has the other eye on whether or not the United States and its allies will remain true to the people of Ukraine.

Look, the people of Ukraine are asking for weapons. They are the ones putting their lives on the line. They are spilling blood. In my view, it is the very least we can do both for them and to stand up for democracy to provide them with the assistance that they need.

Waving the white flag right now would be a loss for Ukraine, a loss for America, and a loss for democracy across the world.

BROWN: Lastly, before we go, you pointed out, on the defense bill that just passed, it bars any president from unilaterally pulling out of NATO. This was a bipartisan measure, we should note, spearheaded by Senators Kaine and Rubio.

Tell us more about the motivation behind this provision.

VAN HOLLEN: We know, when he was president, Donald Trump attacked NATO. He weakened NATO. He called into question the purpose of NATO.

So we just want to make sure that any president in the future cannot unilaterally decide to withdraw from NATO.

In other words, congressional consent would be required before any president, Republican or Democrat, could decide to just unilaterally abandon NATO.

Because this is an important alliance. Its importance has been reinforced by Putin's attack on Ukraine.

BROWN: Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much. We appreciate your time today.

And just updating our breaking news. The IDF saying that Israeli forces mistakenly shot and killed three hostages today in northern Gaza. We will have much more on this at the top of the hour.

[13:39:23]

Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: A search is underway right now for four more terrorism suspects connected to arrests made yesterday in Denmark.

Danish authorities have not yet outlined details of the charges, but Israeli security services claim that terror suspects were arrested in Denmark for acting on behalf of Hamas.

It all coincides with what officials say is a separate case in which four alleged Hamas members were arrested in Germany and the Netherlands. They are accused of plotting terror attacks on Jewish institutions in Europe.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Berlin.

Fred, what's the latest details that we are learning about the suspects and the plot in Germany?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Boris. This is all moving forward in Germany pretty quickly. These suspects were today in front of a judge here in Germany from the federal prosecutor's office.

And all of them were formerly arrested. The three that were detained here in Germany and also the one who was detained in the Netherlands as well. All in front of the federal prosecutor, brought to a judge, and then formally arrested.

That obviously means that the authorities believe there is a pretty hard case that they were up to something that could have been very dangerous, especially to Jewish institutions are in the country.

[13:44:57]

Of course, we have to point out that the Germans have been very open about the fact that they say that at least three members of this group were in very close contact with Hamas. In fact, were Hamas members for a long period of time and had very good contacts also to the military leadership of Hamas.

Just to bring our viewers up to date, what the Germans are saying is that apparently Hamas had been stockpiling weapons here in Germany in what the Germans say was a weapons depot.

These people were then apparently tasked with finding these weapons, bringing them to Berlin for possible use in attacks against Jewish places in Europe.

Looking at the debate that we have been seeing around Germany over the past day or day and a half this was going on, one of the things that we have to point out is that Hamas is an organization that was not banned in Germany until after the October 7th attacks.

They were operating quite openly here in Germany trying to get funding and organizing here in Germany as well.

One of the things that the authorities fear, because these people after the ban then tried to get to that weapons depot, is that Hamas might be moving into a more active phase than it was here in Germany before it was banned.

It's a big concern here in Germany. It's obviously a big concern in Europe as well. Around Jewish institutions, the security has certainly increased a great deal -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Fred, are you getting any new details on the terrorism cases in Denmark?

PLEITGEN: Yes. I mean, they seem to be bigger than even the size we saw yesterday. Of course, yesterday, the Danish authorities announced that they had country wide raids that took place.

As you noted, they said they had arrested three people in Denmark. One person was also arrested in the Netherlands in what the Danes also called an anti-terror operation.

It was the Israelis who came forward who said it was ordered by Hamas. That it was, essentially, a Hamas plot that was foiled.

The Danes are essentially saying there are other suspects out there. They have already formally issued arrest warrants for those suspects, but they don't have the suspects in custody. They call this detention in absentia.

So clearly a manhunt is going on right now in Denmark as the Danish authorities clearly believe there seems to be members of the cell out there that could be quite dangerous -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Fred Pleitgen, live from Berlin. Thanks so much, Fred.

So if you thought that it seems like everyone you know is sick, it's not just you. The rates of flu and other illnesses are soaring. Now the CDC is out with a warning, telling us that we may urgently need to go get vaccinated. More on that straight ahead.

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[13:52:14]

BROWN: Well, the CDC is sounding the alarm, saying there is an urgent need to get more people vaccinated against Covid, flu and RSV. Health officials warn these respiratory diseases are on the rise.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us.

So just how bad are these vaccination rates right now?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We are sort of sleepwalking our way into this respiratory season. That's what Dr. Tom Frieden said. When you look at the overall numbers, they are concerning.

I will show you these, but I preface this by saying we have never been great in this country about vaccination rates, even before the pandemic. Flu vaccination was typically below 50 percent.

But it's even lower now. So compare last year to this year, for example, for kids and for adults, the numbers are lower. They are too low.

If you look at Covid -- I sort of made this graph for you, Pamela, to take a look at since the beginning of vaccines, where we have been and where we are now.

You can see, as we put up that graphic, that the red line there is sort of -- those are the first shots that came out. A lot of people got those first shots. The blue line are some of the second shots. That is still pretty high.

The bottom right of the screen, if you can even see it there, Pamela, that's right now. That is the most updated Covid shots. Fewer than 20 percent of people in the country have gotten that.

And then RSV. We did not even have a vaccine for this up until recently. People over the age of 60, they are recommended to get it, but only around 16 percent of people have received it so far.

One thing I will say is that it's not too late still. So people may think the time window has passed. It has not. And the numbers are still increasing. So go out and get it if you can still get one.

BROWN: I was just going to ask you about that.

So there's a lot of viruses going around right now, which typically happens around this time of year.

GUPTA: Yes.

BROWN: How have these low vaccination rates impacted how sick people have been getting this season?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, that is the question. What is the price we are paying for these low rates of vaccination?

We know they can do a great job in terms of protecting people against getting severely ill, hospitalization and death. That is what they are good for.

If you look at these numbers compared to last month, so just over the last month, look at the flu, 200 percent increase in hospitalizations, Covid, 50 percent and RSV 60 percent.

So as you point out, this is the season. We know this is respiratory virus season, but the numbers have been going up pretty significantly just over this last month.

As we go into the holidays more and more people are gathering at getting together. So the expectation, sadly, is that the numbers will go up even more.

But I think that is part of the reason, Pamela, that the CDC is sounding this alarm right now.

[13:55:01]

BROWN: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Good to see you.

GUPTA: You got it.

BROWN: We are following breaking news out of Israel. The IDF saying it mistakenly shot and killed three Israeli hostages in northern Gaza. We are live from Israel after a quick break.

We will be right back. Stay with us.

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