Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

IDF Says It Mistakenly Killed 3 Israeli Hostages In Gaza; Interview With Robert D'Amico, Former Deputy Operations Chief, FBI Hostage Rescue Team; Interview With Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL); Potent Storms Headed For Florida And East Coast. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 15, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:33:39]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: More now on the breaking news in Israel's war on Hamas. The IDF said it mistakenly killed three Israeli hostages in Gaza. A IDF spokesperson saying that the victims were misidentified as threatening and then shot and killed.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Joining us now, Rob D'Amico, former deputy operations chief for the FBI Hostage Rescue Team.

Thank you for joining us.

The IDF spokesperson who we just spoke to said that these three hostages were out in the open. They were wearing civilian clothes. He said we have seen other Hamas fighters wear civilian clothes. It's challenging.

Obviously, they really regret what happened here. They say they learned lessons. What do you make of what the IDF spokesperson said about this?

ROBERT D'AMICO, FORMER DEPUTY OPERATIONS CHIEF & MEMBER, FBI HOSTAGE RESCUE TEAM: First thing, it is Hamas's responsibility that this happened. It's like a crime over here.

If you kidnap someone and a team comes in to rescue them, and they accidentally killed the person, you're going to be charged with that person's murder. I think it's the same way here.

But with all teams in that, like if the hostage rescue team did a hostage rescue and we killed one of the hostages, you have to do it a very critical after-action report with everything followed, with all the rules of engagement were followed.

How did they perceive a threat by these three people? Were they armed? Did they have something that looked like they were armed? In fact, maybe the soldiers engaged them.

[14:35:01]

We've had our special mission units do hostage rescues and people have been killed on it. Some of them have been disciplined.

It was not that it was anyone's fault. But they look at the policies and the procedures and they find out that the soldiers or SEALs disregarded someone or did something that wasn't within their rules of engagement to cause that.

It doesn't mean it's still not the terrorist's ultimate responsibility that that hostage was there in that situation.

SANCHEZ: So our reporting from Jeremy Diamond indicates that Israel adjusted the rules of engagement after October 7th, to sort of, to loosen them, as they were approaching Hamas targets in Gaza.

We just heard from IDF spokesperson, Lieutenant General Jonathan Conricus, who effectively denied that.

I'm wondering, do you anticipate that this might change the approach, whether it is described as rules of engagement or just as something else? Do you think this changes the approach for Israel?

D'AMICO: I think it may. I think, especially with our visit over there at the time, telling them to strengthen up some things.

But it's one of those, they really have to uncover what happened, how it transpired to see that, was it something that maybe got through?

And there's rumors out there, too. It could have been that the IDF did not pass anything on it, but some rumors came down that, oh, yes, we have lessened the rules of engagement.

Rumors throughout the military during war can get crazy. I mean, that's where commanders and leaders come in. And it could have been something that was triggered from that or it could have been truly where they thought they were being engaged by something running at them.

Did they have night vision on? Were they allowed to see into the area that they are looking? All of those things come into play. It's a complex situation.

Again, it goes back to people taking hostages when they shouldn't be.

Israel has to get critical and say, hey, what really caused this? Was it the fault of a soldier or passing information on rules of engagement that were not understood?

That is why the FBI never changes the rules of engagement. There were some talks a few years ago with Ruby Ridge. It never came down. But people got in trouble over that.

That is why it's so critical to understand what you're allowed to engage with in a situation like this.

BROWN: Yes. And I think you make an important point of emphasizing, ultimately, it is Hamas's fault, right? But as we just heard from the IDF spokesperson, they're going back,

they're scrutinizing this, making sure that it can be prevented in the future.

The IDF says, quote, "Immediate lessons from the event have been learned, which have all been passed on to the IDF troops in the field."

What do you think the troops are being told right now?

D'AMICO: They're being told that any good unit in law enforcement has to be very self-critical.

Even when we did offsets that went well, the good operators would admit, I didn't do well, and when I took that turn, I was exposing you, and you get very down to it. Those are the ones that go well.

So the ones that don't go well, they really have to look at it and think -- I really think they're going to talk about positive identification of what a threat is.

Though it could have been, hey, he was reaching into his coat, I thought it was a hand grenade, and you look at it that way, and then it's hard to decipher.

But I think they're going to sit down and talk to the soldiers and say, what did you -- why did you engage him? What do you see as a threat? Was it just their -- were they running at you?

When you do a delivered hostage rescue, you also know there is hostages there. So was this even briefed that there was a possibility of hostages in this area? That can put a spin on it, too.

Where if you are doing a delivered hostage rescue and you know there's four hostages in there or that you're looking for that when you start engaging people, you are a little more critical in what you're looking for.

So was not even briefed as a possibility that hostages were in the area that they were operating?

BROWN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Robert D'Amico, really important perspective.

BROWN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much.

D'AMICO: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

So in just a few moments, we will speak to a key member of Congress on this breaking news out of Israel.

[14:39:26]

CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns in just a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back to CNN NEWS CENTRAL. I want to get straight to Capitol Hill and Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley of Illinois who joins me now.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

I know you've been tracking the breaking news into CNN. The IDF acknowledging that three Israeli hostages were killed by IDF soldiers mistakenly identified as members of Hamas.

Congressman, I'm wondering what your reaction to that news is.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Yes, I'm reminded this week, I met with one of the former hostages who traveled to Washington, D.C., to hear her account of the horrors of her captivity.

Obviously, with any conflict, there is the tragedy of friendly fire deaths. We've already heard about the fog of war causing these in this conflict. Obviously, today is a great tragedy as well.

And understanding, of course, that corrections have to be made, greater scrutiny and more protections put in place to prevent against such things.

But ultimately, Hamas is responsible for having hostages in the first place.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, to that point of steps that have to be taken, the national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, is in the region having discussions with Israeli officials among others.

[14:45:06]

And one of the messages we understand he has taken coming from the Biden White House is that Israel needs to be much more selective when it comes to civilian life in Gaza.

President Biden described some of the targeting of Hamas entities in Gaza as indiscriminate bombing by Israel.

What would be your message to the IDF, to leaders in Israel, over the way that they are handling this war?

QUIGLEY: First, I want to begin by saying I was in Gaza some time ago after a similar conflict, smaller in nature, but I could see firsthand just how difficult that task is.

Having said that, I agree with Mr. Sullivan that that needs to take place.

First, it is the right thing to do. Humanitarian aid has to get in. There has to be humanitarian corridors. And they have to be much more protective of civilians in the area.

It is the right thing to do. But it is also the smart thing to do.

I fully appreciate their absolute right to try to dismantle and destroy Hamas. They never will completely. But while you are attempting to dismantle Hamas, you don't want to recruit future Hamas soldiers.

It is not just the military force. It is a movement. So the manner in which they do this will impact a great deal the challenges they face in the coming years.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, I want to pivot now to Ukraine. We originally invited you on to talk about the stalled status of negotiations over sending aid to eastern Europe.

CNN has also learned that there are serious concerns among not just U.S. officials but officials in Europe as well, that without significant aid, Ukraine could quickly fall to Russian forces.

Given that your Republican colleagues have been calling for a more well-defined end game in Ukraine, they want the White House to define victory, how would you define victory for Ukraine? Is it President Zelenskyy's call that Ukraine must retake Crimea?

QUIGLEY: Well, if someone invaded the United States and took several of our states, we would not have agreed with other countries saying, well, you should be satisfied with only losing some of your region.

They have an absolute right to their territorial integrity. I think that is part of victory. I think guaranteed security provisions in the future, a rebuilt Ukraine is part of that victory.

And holding those accountable for the horrors of war that I witnessed firsthand. I've been in Ukraine twice since the conflict and I saw evidence of Putin's atrocities, including the mass graves at Bucha.

So I think that is the ultimate victory.

For someone to suggest that some other countries should sacrifice because we aren't willing to back up the fight for the reasons we fought the Second World War, why we fought and formed the United Nations and the E.U. and NATO. Ukraine is doing our dirty work.

And finally, if any of them imagined that Putin would be satisfied with Ukraine, they would not form a federation with public governments and Belarus, Ukraine. Move on Moldova, Georgia, a land bridge to Kaliningrad and beyond.

Look, Secretary Austin, General Milley said it best, if we don't halt Putin's aggression now, there will be more money to be spent with double our defense budget and there will be more bloodshed in the future.

SANCHEZ: And yet, Congressman, "The Washington Post" reported a few weeks ago that the White House has told Ukrainian leaders that they should signal to the Kremlin that they are open to peace talks.

Given that the counteroffensive is stalled, given that aid -- conversations to send aid to Ukraine has met a logjam in Congress, do you think it's time for Ukraine to perhaps revisit its ambitions?

QUIGLEY: Absolutely not. I would not expect our country today that.

I also understand how our national security is involved in that. And the horrible message we would be sending to other adversaries with eyes on Taiwan, for just one example.

We would be telling autocrats across the world that it's fair game. That we will defend democracy on a limited basis in a limited time. If you're patient, you can do whatever you want.

SANCHEZ: So then, is it a mistake for the White House to tell Ukrainians leaders to signal to the Kremlin that they're open toward peace talks with Vladimir Putin right now?

QUIGLEY: I have not been told by the White House that they did that. But if they did, it would be a mistake, and I would strongly disagree.

[14:50:00]

I would support Ukraine to the ultimate victory, just because it is in our interest, clearly in the interest of eastern Europe in our allies there.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Mike Quigley, we have to leave the conversation there. We very much appreciate your time. And happy holidays, sir.

QUIGLEY: Thank you. You, as well.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

When we come back, heavy rain and wind expected to slam into Florida and then travel up the east coast. More on the timing of this major storm that may impact your holiday shopping, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A significant storm is expected to start strengthening as it moves from the Gulf of Mexico into Florida and up the east coast this weekend. It is bringing the chance of heavy rain and wind gusts and could possibly spawn a few tornadoes.

[14:55:07]

Meteorologist Chad Myers is here with more.

What do people need to know about what is coming? How do we prepare for this, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Pam, two months ago, this would have a tropical storm name. A month from now, again, in advance, we would have a major snow nor'easter. But we're right in the middle here. But Florida, you are going to get rain tomorrow. The coastal Carolinas on Sunday. And then a big wind event for the northeast for Monday morning.

A flight warning out of Boston, New York, LaGuardia, Philadelphia, going to be delayed on Monday.

Here we go, though, for tomorrow afternoon, the rain gets into the low country. Then, on up across Cape Hatteras and then on up toward the northeast where the winds are going to be blowing 60 miles per hour.

A lot of events across parts of Florida are actually getting canceled because of this, even maritime events, because of the wind and the rain. And you know, you don't have boats on a parade when you're talking about winds of 40 miles an hour.

We're also going to see two to four inches of rainfall all the way up the east coast. But not significant snow. Highest elevations, sure, in the Appalachians. But really, this is a rain event, not a snow event.

But it is the wind that will be a big problem for Charlotte and Raleigh, all the way up through the Delmarva, I mentioned New England.

There will be hundreds of thousands of people, Pam, without power by Monday morning.

BROWN: Yes, that is rough going.

Chad Myers, thanks so much.

MYERS: Yes.

BROWN: We are following breaking news out of Israel where the IDF now says it accidentally shot and killed three hostages in Gaza. We're going to Israel for a live report after a quick break.

Be sure to stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)