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Trump Tests New Campaign Strategy in Iowa Ahead of Caucuses; Soon, Funeral for Sandra Day O'Connor, First Woman on Supreme Court; Lawmakers Skeptical Border Deal, Ukraine, Aid Will Pass This Year. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 19, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Trying out a new strategy with less than a month to the Iowa caucus is how the Trump campaign may be using this as a test run for the general election.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Funding for Ukraine, funding for Israel, stronger, stricter border policies, could Congress get its act together this week? Simple answer from one top Republican, no way. So, is there any hope for the holidays here?

SIDNER: And remembering an American trailblazer, the funeral for Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, the first woman to serve on the Supreme Court, starts in just an hour. We'll take you live to Washington National Cathedral for the service.

I'm Sara Sidner, alongside Kate Bolduan, John Berman, off today, and this is CNN News Central.

BOLDUAN: Today, nearly every 2024 Republican presidential candidate is in one place, Iowa, maybe not surprisingly, for some final and truly critical pre-Christmas campaigning. They're right up against it, folks. January 15th is caucus day.

And this morning, we're learning more about the Donald Trump campaign test case. The strategy they're trying to deploy in Iowa and why they're hoping it sets a model for the general.

CNN's Alayna Treene has this new reporting. She's back with us. Alayna, what is this test case?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yes. Well, Kate, essentially what they're trying to do in Iowa is not only go after likely caucus-goers, which the other campaigns are doing, and we're seeing the polls keep track of, but they're trying to find and create first-time caucus- goers and essentially expand the electorate in Iowa in Donald Trump's favor.

And they think that by doing this, you know, they'll be able to turn out a lot more people on caucus day for Donald Trump than anyone was anticipating. And if that strategy is successful in Iowa, which the campaign, of course, thinks it will be, they will be using that in the other early-nominating states as well as potentially a general election if Donald Trump were able to get that far and receive the nomination.

Now, part of that strategy as well, I'm told by Donald Trump's advisers, is this program that they've created called Ten for Trump. They've essentially picked hundreds of caucus goers in the state of Iowa, calling them caucus captains, and they assigned them to target ten specific people, first-time caucus-goers that they'd be going after, and have them call up these people and ask them to come out. That's just one way that they're trying to implement this strategy.

Of course, they have an extensive amount of data that they're mining and pulling on these people in order to reach out.

I'm also told that the former president has been personally making calls to these caucus-goers, to these voters, trying to ensure that they come out for him on January 15th, and also ensure that first-time caucus-goers are aware that they should be coming out and teaching them how to caucus.

I think what's been really interesting, just having attended many of Donald Trump's rallies, particularly in the state of Iowa over the last several months, is that they are very focused on teaching caucus- goers essentially how to caucus, teaching them where to go, how to get there on caucus day, helping provide them with transportation to get to the polls, all of these things in their goal of trying to set a new record in Iowa on January 15th. Kate?

BOLDUAN: I think that that bit of reporting you have that Donald Trump is personally calling kind of these potential, maybe sort of caucus-goers, first-time caucus-goers, that's a fascinating bit of Donald Trump getting down into the weeds we haven't really seen it. It's really interesting, Alayna, great reporting. Thank you.

SIDNER: Associated Press Reporter Meg Kinnard is joining us now. First, just your reaction to Alayna's new reporting that the Trump campaign has set up really an extensive ground game, something that we didn't really see in 2016, is this going to be really important in its success?

MEG KINNARD, REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Hey, good morning. It's good to be with you all. And, yes, this is definitely a different tact than we've seen from the Trump campaign in cycles past. In 2016, it was admittedly kind of a more scattershot effort in Iowa and some of these other early states.

But now, this intentionality from the Trump campaign, this acknowledgement of if we're going to expand our footprint, if we're going to be able to draw in some new caucus-goers, people who've never been through this process before, people who might be energized from what they saw in 2016 from the Trump campaign, being able to expand that footprint might be something that really could make a splash in Iowa if the Trump campaign or any other effort that's aiming to do something similar could really get that off the ground in January 15, which is going to be here before we know it. [10:05:18]

SIDNER: Speaking of expanding a footprint, Nikki Haley releasing an ad slamming Donald Trump. And now, her campaign is responding to a new attack ad from a pro-Trump super PAC, issuing a statement titled, Trump getting scared in New Hampshire. Could these ads really sway voters' minds or are we in the situation where they've already kind of made up their minds and the numbers show, polling-wise, that they're going to go for Trump?

KINNARD: Certainly, the polls have been in Donald Trump's favor in Iowa, in New Hampshire and a lot of these other early places we're looking at. But it is interesting to see in these closing weeks before there are actually any votes cast by any of these places to see the candidates directly talking about Trump. That's something that Chris Christie, who's also competing heavily in New Hampshire, had really taken Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis to task over, saying they're really not talking about the guy who's in the top of the polls. I'm the only one going after him directly. And as you know, we see that actually starting to happen.

Last night, Nikki Haley sending out a tweet, basically to Donald Trump to bring it, if he's going to start criticizing her, that she'll be willing to do the same. Yet to be known if any voters are actually swayed by this, but without Donald Trump having participated in any of the GOP primary debates thus far, it's really the only opportunity that voters in any state are really getting to see these candidates talking to him directly, even if it's just through ads.

SIDNER: I want to respond to something we heard from Governor Kim Reynolds from Iowa, who has backed DeSantis and wanted to get your thoughts on what she has said about these battles, if you will, that are going out on television. Listen.

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GOV. KIM REYNOLDS (R-IA): Now, he's using me to mislead Iowans as if I'm endorsing him. And I want to be clear. I supported President Trump in 2016. I voted for him. I supported him in 2020. I agreed with his policies. But it's a different day, it's a different time, and we need a leader that doesn't have -- that's not distracted, and that person is Ron DeSantis.

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SIDNER: The numbers show in Iowa, in particular, that Donald Trump is the clear frontrunner, someone that is almost impossible to catch. Do her words make a difference here?

KINNARD: It is very interesting to see these GOP politicians in a variety of different offices who previously may have supported Donald Trump, now picking another candidate in the horse race against him and being asked about some of their previous support and prior statements. There's a lot of it out there over the past almost eight years, really, since he's been in the national political sphere. So, that is something that people like Kim Reynolds, like maybe Chris Sununu, not that he's really been in the pro-Trump camp to speak of, but he is endorsing another candidate in 2024. So, really kind of looking back at some of these issues and knowing that the Trump campaign being more organized now than it perhaps was the first time is really compiling all of that evidence that it would, say, could be used to try to take some of these surrogates and endorsers and at least flick at pieces of the past where they've been in support of their guys opposed to whoever they're with now.

SIDNER: Meg Kinnard, great analysis. Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Right now, the nation's top leaders are gathering in Washington to say goodbye to an icon, the first woman to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court. The funeral for the late Justice Sandra Day O'Connor is going to begin in less than an hour from now, and Justice O'Connor, you can see some live pictures from inside the Washington National Cathedral right there.

Justice O'Connor passed away earlier this month at the age of 93. She served on the high court for more than two decades. She was at the center of some of the most consequential decisions impacting the lives of all Americans.

CNN's Joan Biskupic is joining us now with more on this. Joan, O'Connor played such an important role on the -- I think we have an audio issue. I don't think, Joan, can hear us? Joan, can you hear us? I don't think so. We're going to work on reconnecting with Joan, but we can promise you to stay with us because we will have special coverage of the funeral service honoring the late Sandra Day O'Connor that will begin shortly, a little later this hour.

I think in the meantime, we've been able to reconnect with Joan Biskupic. Joan, can you hear me?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: How are you?

BOLDUAN: I'm doing great. Talk to me about what today is going to look like. I mean, all of Washington and beyond, far beyond Washington gathering at this iconic cathedral to remember an icon.

BISKUPIC: That's right. And plenty of Arizona will be there.

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That's where Sandra Day O'Connor was born, reared, and really established much of her professional life as a state senator.

But, Kate, it will be like a state funeral. It will be of that magnitude. We saw back in 2018 former President George H. W. Bush was celebrated for his life at the National Cathedral, and that's the kind of thing we'll see this morning. We'll see President Joe Biden will speak. Chief Justice John Roberts will speak. All nine justices will be in attendance. Retired Justice Anthony Kennedy, who was a close friend of Justice O'Connor's, will be there. Family, friends will be there to celebrate. And the music will, I think, reflect a lot of the joy that she inspired in people because this is where she worshiped, Kate. When she was in Washington, she worshiped at the National Cathedral there. So, it was her home as well as a place that today is very fitting for someone who was the first woman on the Supreme Court.

I remember back in 1993, Kate, when Thurgood Marshall was the last Supreme Court justice to get a National Cathedral funeral. And I remember being there for that and how his life was celebrated. But it was elevated because of the national setting, which, as I say, is normally a place of state funerals.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. I mean, it's such a beautiful cathedral, and, as you said, just showing how important this day is going to be and how special it is to honor her. President Biden will be speaking there as well as the chief justice.

Joan, thank you so much. Joan is going to be helping us walk through it as the minutes go by. CNN's special coverage of Sandra Day O'Connor's funeral begins in just about 30 minutes.

SIDNER: And coming up in the next few minutes, can lawmakers finally secure critical funding for Ukraine and Israel and to keep running the U.S. government before the end of the year? We'll ask Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley about where those negotiations stand now.

And nearly 22 weeks into her pregnancy, an Ohio woman suffered a miscarriage at home. Now, she's being charged with a felony. We'll discuss that story next.

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BOLDUAN: Ukraine needs military aid to bolster its defenses against Russia. Israel needs more U.S. support. And the southern border is in crisis as the broken immigration system has now left tens of thousands of migrants in custody with border facilities overwhelmed. All major issues all stuck, as Congress can't seem to make a deal.

Here's the blunt take from one top Senate Republican, John Thune. Listen to this.

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MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It seems like there's no way an immigration deal can be voted on in the Senate this week.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): That is a fact. Yes, yes, there's no way.

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BOLDUAN: There's no way. Joining me now, Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley from Oregon, he serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thank you for coming on. Do you agree with John Thune on this, no chance of a vote on the border this week?

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): It does in fact take both parties to agree to a framework, get the language drafted, and if the Republican side is saying that they don't want to dance, then there won't be a dance.

BOLDUAN: I'm not sure that's what Thune was saying. I think Thune was giving a blunt assessment of the two sides haven't come together, just practically speaking, that there is not going to be a vote this week. Do you agree?

MERKLEY: Well, I think that is fair. You're talking about, well, three major world issues, in terms of the Middle East, Ukraine and the border. And it isn't just funding the programs on the border. If it was just about more security on the border, more case managers, more folks who are holding the asylum hearings so we can get rid of this backlog, that would be fairly straightforward.

But the Republicans are getting a lot of messages from the Steve Miller faction, which is a faction that says, use this as leverage for every diabolical, if you will, strategy to throw people out of the country. And so we're really hung up over policy issues being tied into this funding bill. And there is no kind of big overlap of agreement right now. And if there was, you'd still have to get it drafted. It's very complicated.

So, I think it's an accurate assessment and the exclamation mark is that many Republicans have not even bothered to come back to Washington, D.C. I think we were missing 20 last night.

BOLDUAN: It's just definitely a statement on anyone's confidence that anything was going to get done with these negotiations. But you've said that you do not think that it was a mistake for President Biden to tie border money to Ukraine aid in the original ask, in the original proposal.

Now seeing how this is going nowhere fast, would you have started there? Would you have opened the door to tying border money to Ukraine aid from the get-go?

MERKLEY: Well, listen, Biden didn't do this in a vacuum. He did it because Republicans were saying that the border has to be part of the deal. So, he put forward $14 billion to address many of the key functions where we are so short.

I mean, we have -- everyone acknowledges, we have a significant challenge on the border. What we have right now is such a huge flow, some 10,000 plus a day. It's overwhelmed the initial credible fear interviews of which only about 700 a day can be conducted.

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And people now know how to get through those credible fear interviews, what they need to say, and therefore all of those who didn't get the credible fear interview, plus those who did and passed it, are basically getting ticket to be in the country for four plus years while we wait for their asylum hearings.

Well, the fix of this is a massive increase in case managers, a massive increase in asylum hearings, and that's where the partnership could occur. But when you throw in the complicated policies over how you define credible fear, or how you decide asylum, or whether you can round up people in America and throw them out of this country, now you have a very complex, tangled web.

And it really -- you know, you have a significant part of the Republican Party, they do not want to get to an agreement on this.

BOLDUAN: No matter what, though, that is the reality of divided government and Joe Biden knows that -- Joe Biden as well as everyone knows that that is a reality of a divided government This is not a surprise of where -- how Republicans and Democrats feel differently on border policy, which is why it is a surprise to some that the opening salvo came with adding border aid into Ukraine -- border money into Ukraine aid when it is stated that Ukraine funding is so critical to help Ukraine survive this assault from Russia.

But I want to also ask you about the left and progressives' reaction to Biden. Because Biden's openness now to a series of border changes, cracking down harder on the border in order to get to a yes, it is angering some progressive Democrats and they're speaking out publicly about it.

You yourself signed on to a letter in late November. It stated, any proposal considering permanent changes to our asylum and immigration system, it needs to include a clear path to legalization for longstanding undocumented immigrants There's no indication senator that that is going to be included.

Is that a hard red line for you? Could you see yourself voting against a bill with Ukraine aid in it if this isn't included?

MERKLEY: There are so many difficult pieces, but the piece you're referring to, which is the DREAMERs, who have grown up in this country, no other country, this would be an ideal time. We've had bipartisan support for that in the past. We've also had bipartisan support for a lot more work visas because we have a big labor shortage in this country. And if you have legal-controlled immigration on a framework that has accountability, it's a much better place to be that has bipartisan support.

So, there are pieces that Democrats are saying, we've had support for these issues. Let's include these in the conversation.

But, Kate, I do want to go back for a moment to your underlying point, where you were saying maybe Biden made a big error of putting immigration in, like, if you will, our border along with Ukrainian issues and Middle East issues, but, quite frankly, that was a Republican demand. So, he was responding, trying to find that middle ground. And we can look at it now and say, well, we should have held out and thrown that into the negotiation later. I just don't think that gets us anywhere. I mean, the big issue here is Biden's willing to fund the key programs to restore the structure of law. A lot of Republicans don't want this issue to be resolved because they want to keep it open for next year's November elections.

BOLDUAN: I do hear you on that front, and I've seen some reporting on how Republicans have kind of even evolved on why they won't support Ukraine aid, which has to do with pointing to Donald Trump as the motivation.

Just trying to get at the heart of -- at the core of this does come political calculation, and I have heard you say that you think Ukraine aid is the -- you said during a hearing, I think it will be one of the biggest foreign policy mistakes we could make in a generations if we bail on Ukraine.

And that's where I'm wondering, why not cut the deal that you can get with Republicans on the border if it's that important?

MERKLEY: Well, certainly that's why there's been intense negotiations going on for several weeks, including through the weekend, negotiators who came back from events, ones who went through 3:00 in the morning.

But let me emphasize that point you're making on Ukraine. Let us remember that in 1938, Chamberlain went to Munich and he told Hitler, you know what, we'll just let you take that big slice, a third of Czechoslovakia. We'll look the other way and we'll declare peace in our time and we'll resolve this.

Right now, it's equivalent, if we tell Putin by not funding Ukraine that you can just take Ukraine, not only is it a horrific tragedy for the people of Ukraine, which have been fighting with their lives in every conceivable way against an overwhelming superpower next door and doing more than anyone ever thought possible because of their conviction in the cause.

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But it means that the U.S. is saying, hey, dictators of the world, you can outlast our attention. You want to take over democracy next door? Go right ahead. It sends a message to China about Taiwan. It will really fracture the Atlantic alliance because we asked the rest of Europe to come in with us and partner to defend Ukraine. It will put cracks into NATO about what our commitment will be if Russia tries to take a piece of NATO territory.

And so it is -- this is why I'm saying it could be the start of a much bigger war in which essentially dictators take pieces of other countries. We start to respond. How much do we respond? We need to stand with Ukraine and we need to sustain this alliance. It's that important.

And the Republicans realize it's that important, which is why they've decided this is the leverage point to enact the Trumpian policies on immigration that they can -- BOLDUAN: This is putting -- but what you're saying is putting a perfect point on why. It's head-scratching for a lot of folks outside of Washington to understand why it can't get done when you lay out the stakes.

It's good to have you on, Senator. Thank you for your time.

MERKLEY: Thank you, Kate.

SIDNER: Still ahead, an Ohio woman who suffered a miscarriage in her bathroom at home is now facing felony abuse charges and could face prison time, according to The Washington Post. We will dig much deeper into the story, next.

Also, the largest credit union in the United States is facing new scrutiny over racial disparities in its mortgage lending. Following a CNN investigative report, that's ahead.

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