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Confidence of US Consumers Reached Its Highest Point Since July; Inside the Hamas Tunnels; Since October 7, Israeli Military Discovered 1,500 Tunnels Gaza; Interview with New York Times Magazine Staff Writer and "Rise and Kill First, The Secret History of Israel's Targeted Assassinations" Author Ronen Bergman; Judge Orders Release of Docs Naming Epstein Associates; 2024 U.S. Presidential Election; Republican Presidential Contenders Host Town Halls in Iowa Before Caucuses; Interview with The Gazette Des Moines Bureau Chief Aaron Murphy; DeSantis Addresses Colorado Decision that Excludes Trump Off Ballot; Colorado 2024 Primary Ballot: Trump Excluded; At an Iowa Event, Trump Justifies Remarks About "Poisoning the Blood". Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 20, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: New this morning, consumer confidence grew for the third month in a row. New data showing that confidence levels are now at their highest since July.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has much more on this. What is in the numbers? Tell me.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: So, for weeks, we have been talking about price levels. What are people seeing in terms of prices? This is what people are feeling. And this is a really good indicator. And we are seeing that people in the month of December are feeling much better about the economy, and that's great news.

The index at 110.7, rising from the previous month, which was at about 102, the highest since July. And then there is the present situation, how people are feeling right now, that's 148.5, that is up more than 10 index points. And expectations, which is really important is how people feel the economy is going to be doing over the next six months.

For the past few months, that number has been below 80, and that usually indicates that people are feeling like a recession is coming. Now that that number is above 80, it's 85.6, it is encouraging. People are feeling like we're going to potentially avoid a recession. And when you look at who is feeling this way, it's across all age groups, but particularly people between 35 and 54 are feeling the most optimistic right now.

BOLDUAN: What's behind that, do you think?

YURKEVICH: I -- BOLDUAN: I mean, it's hard to judge, but --

YURKEVICH: I think these are also -- I will say, these are also higher earners. These are people who are making over 125,000. And so, probably they are looking at, you know, potentially their 401(k)s, their savings, moves that they're going to make in the economy.

And a lot of folks in this survey are saying that they believe that interest rates will fall. They believe the stock market will rise. And a lot of people saying that they are potentially going to be making big purchases now. Specifically on homes, and we have seen mortgage rates come down.

BOLDUAN: Especially because that's been kind of the stickiest --

YURKEVICH: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- and most stubborn when we've been talking about inflation.

YURKEVICH: Right. And people have been sitting on the sidelines, waiting for prices to come down, and now that's what they're starting to see. However, when you dig into this report, the biggest issue for people still is rising prices. And when people were asked about their current family financial conditions, they weren't feeling good about it in the moment right now, as they were asked, but as they were asked about the future, they were feeling more encouraged.

So, overall, this is very good news in terms of how people are feeling. We'll also get another survey on Friday, Consumer Sentiment, and so we will see if that tracks in line with this. But a very good number about how people are feeling today.

BOLDUAN: That's really interesting. It's good to see you, Vanessa. Thank you.

YURKEVICH: Thank you.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: All right. Israeli military officials say that since October 7th, they have discovered some 1,500 tunnel shafts in Gaza, all part of a vast underground world that is complicating Israel's war against Hamas. Many of these shafts are located in civilian areas and inside civilian structures. The largest discovered on Sunday is wide enough for a large vehicle and is equipped with electricity, ventilation, and communication systems inside that tunnel.

Joining us with more on this, one of the Western journalists who was allowed inside to get a look, Ronen Bergman. You're a staff writer for "The New York Times Magazine" and author of "Rise and Kill First, The Secret History of Israel's Targeted Assassinations." It is a dense book and it reads like a novel. It's very well done. Ronen, thank you so much for joining us.

[10:35:00] First of all, you went into these tunnels, one of these major, the biggest one so far, and took some stunning photos. I'm curious just what your initial impression was being inside of that massive tunnel.

RONEN BERGMAN, STAFF WRITER, NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE AND AUTHOR OF "RISE AND KILL FIRST, THE SECRET HISTORY OF ISRAEL'S TARGETED ASSASSINATIONS": Thanks. Thanks, Sara. It's not just being inside the tunnel. Being inside the tunnel, it is in a walkable distance from the Israeli border. You see when you -- actually walking from the -- some of us prefer to walk from the Israeli border, you see the ruins of the towers, the communication centers and the automatic machine, that's the Hamas destroyed the first day of the attack.

And then you look at the tunnel, this is the biggest tunnel the IDF told us that they have found so far. In fact, off the record with some confidential sources, they say that they were not -- they didn't know that Hamas built such a tunnel that the big car, maybe a small truck can go through. In fact, they found in one of the raids on Hamas headquarters, they found a video of Muhammad Sinwar, the brother of the leader of Hamas, who is the leader of the tunnel project driving his -- in his private car in the passenger seat through this tunnel.

And the feeling was, first of all, I don't want to say admiration, but respect towards the -- this kind of unbelievable, digging capabilities while knowing that this was done instead of building Gaza, they built tunnels. Second, the fact that Israeli intelligence missed that, and Israeli leaders did not devote enough tension -- enough attention to destroy those towns. And third, this was just about -- just by the border with Israel. And so, walking there, I think, gave a very clear understanding per the constructing -- construction and military capabilities of Hamas.

SIDNER: I mean, looking at those pictures, it is remarkable to see just how much technology is in there, how big it is, what could come through there. You touched on this, and I want to go back to it. Israel's intelligence agencies have always had this reputation of being almost all-knowing about what is happening in and around Israel, October 7th really tore that reputation apart. And then when it comes to these tunnels, I mean, did their scale and their technological intricacies and the vast network surprise, not only the military but some of your sources at high levels in the intelligence agencies?

BERGMAN: So, just to put things in proportion, in 2014, Israel discovered that Hamas was building what they called attack tunnels. So, Hamas was planning its invasion into Israel with this kind, they called it the orchard because of the shape, the orchard tunnel. They didn't know it's so big, but they know that they exist, they destroyed some of them in 2014.

And the Israeli conclusion was to build a massive subterrain fence or barrier that was successful. It stopped the attacking tunnels from crossing into Israel. This was an achievement, a technological achievement, an intelligence achievement, understanding that, but it led to a catastrophe. Because while the Israelis felt that they basically stopped the big plan, we now know that the code name is Jericho, Jericho North (ph). The Hamas just found the -- a much harder way, which is -- was to go --

SIDNER: Yes, you're looking at the pictures that you took and some of the video that your photographer took there inside of those tunnels, where you have soldiers coming out side by side. Ronen Bergman, joined us now. We just -- we -- I think we've just lost his communications.

But these are incredible pictures and you heard him talk about Yahya Sinwar's brother, Muhammad, where they found a video of him driving through those very tunnels with a truck. It is remarkable what Ronen has been able to report and see. We thank him for coming on this morning from Tel Aviv.

BOLDUAN: Those really are remarkable pictures of what he's learned.

Coming up still for us, a federal judge in New York just ordered the names of some of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged associates to be made public. Why and what this could mean now?

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[10:40:00]

SIDNER: Three presidential hopefuls are fanned out across Iowa today as the caucuses are just a few weeks away. I think 26. That's happening on January 15th. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis spoke earlier in Urbandale, and will be joining the Never Back Down PAC later in the day. Vivek Ramaswamy just began a town hall in Cedar Falls. And Nikki Haley's town hall in Burlington starts in less than an hour.

All of this is happening mere hours after Colorado's Supreme Court made history by ruling GOP front-runner Donald Trump is constitutionally unable to run in their state. Citing the 14th Amendment ban on insurrectionists holding public office. "The Gazette" Bureau Chief Aaron Murphy is joining us now from Des Moines.

Thank you so much for being here. Give me a sense of how you see -- I just want to talk about Colorado quickly first.

[10:45:00]

How you see the candidates basically defending Donald Trump, making a pitch for themselves in other ways to Iowans who are about to go into caucus.

AARON MURPHY, DES MOINES BUREAU CHIEF, THE GAZETTE: Yes, much like they have had to do with other topics involving the former president. The candidates have tried to walk a fine line here. You mentioned, I was at the event this morning in Urbandale with Governor DeSantis, and he said that he believes what the Colorado Supreme Court ruled was wrong. He believes the U.S. Supreme Court will overturn it. But he also said that whether or not it is fair, that is the kind of thing that follows Former President Trump, and he made that as a case for why Iowa Republican voters should look at him instead of the former president.

So, you know, there -- he's careful to criticize the Supreme Court ruling, the Colorado Supreme Court ruling, but also use it as an example of why voters should look away from Former President Trump.

SIDNER: You're very diplomatic. I would say turning themselves into pretzels trying to figure out how to use this, but also not be extremely critical of the person that they have to beat in order to go to the general.

All right. I do want to ask you because you have spent a lot of time talking to Iowa voters. And what are they saying about, if there is for them, an alternative to Donald Trump, who the numbers show is the clear front-runner in Iowa?

MURPHY: Yes. Well, my sense of it is that that's really two different populations here in Iowa. The folks who are in Former President Trump's camp are pretty staunchly in Former President Trump's camp. There's a very small slice of that pie that remains open to a different candidate. Those supporters are in his camp and they're not budging for anything. And this Colorado Supreme Court ruling, I highly doubt will be anything that changes that either.

So, that leaves Governor DeSantis and Nikki Haley, sort of, competing for a smaller piece of the Iowa Republican electorate here as they try to be the candidate that has a late charge here in Iowa. And that has happened in the past, that still could happen, and be someone that gets closer to the former president, at least comes out of the state, if not beating Trump, at least with some momentum.

SIDNER: All right. I do want to talk about these -- the words that Donald Trump has been using in a new poll that's out among likely GOP caucus goers in Iowa. About Trump's comments where he said that immigrants are poisoning the blood of America and how it impacts their vote. And here's what it looks like. They're more likely to vote for him, 42 percent. It's a really high number. What does that tell you about voters in Iowa and the rhetoric that he's -- that -- that's been used? It's been widely criticized especially, of course, by, Democrats, but by a lot of different groups.

MURPHY: Yes, that just speaks to what I alluded to is that the folks who support Former President Trump are with him through thick and thin. And there's people who, when he says things like that, they're with him. They believe the same thing, and it doesn't bother them what kind of historical context something like that may or may not have. And then there's other people and in that same pool, another 30 percent said it doesn't change their mind one way or the other.

So, you have seven out of 10 people that it actually proves their opinion of him or it doesn't matter at all. They hear things like that and say, oh, I wish he wouldn't say things like that, but it doesn't change their mind about supporting him because they have their other reasons for supporting him. That again, this just -- every time something like this comes up, we see the same thing and it speaks to how firmly his support is entrenched.

SIDNER: Yes, it's a really good way to put it, spoken plainly and clearly from Des Moines, Iowa. Thank you so much, Aaron. And we'll be back with you probably in the next week or so. Stick around.

MURPHY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, a federal judge has ordered the names of several of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged victims and associates to be made public. What could be learned from the newly unsealed document?

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[10:50:00]

BOLDUAN: A federal judge has now ordered the names of dozens of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged victims and associates be made public. This is the latest development in a case that was actually settled years ago against Epstein's former girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, who was convicted in 2021 of sex trafficking charges involving multiple victims that goes beyond, of course, what Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of.

CNN's Kara Scannell following this now. Kara, why is a federal judge making this move now? What does it do?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, this has been at the request of some media organizations to, you know, try to understand the full universe of Jeffrey Epstein because it has been a story that has percolated for years --

BOLDUAN: So long.

SCANNELL: -- and then, you know, ultimately with Maxwell's conviction in 2021. So, the judge has gone through this. And it's not just going to be a list of names.

She went through Jane Doe and John Doe's, one by one, deciding what information could be unsealed and what couldn't. And what she decided that could be unsealed were in the case of a number of these Does here they didn't object to the unsealing of the materials that relate to them. You know, others -- the determination was that these people had already become public either because they themselves gave me the interviews or they became public through court cases and including at the trial where their identities came out.

And then in other, she said, the material that includes their name is not salacious in any way, so there was no harm to them. The right of public access was something that she thought was of greater importance here.

[10:55:00]

You know, this has been a case where there's been a lot of famous names that have been out around this, you know, and all those men have denied any knowledge of Epstein's sexual trafficking operation. But this will shed more light on this. I mean, what won't be unsealed will be the identities of some of these victims who were minors at the time and have chosen not to go public in any way. So, the judge is going to protect their privacy in this.

You know, she is still giving everyone 14 days, over the holidays, to object to this, to file an appeal if they want to stop it. And that -- but if not, then these names can become public, you know, beginning in the year, possibly January 1st, that's a holiday for the courts, or January 2nd, unless there's any, you know, stay by in appeals court.

BOLDUAN: It is interesting. And just like the long tail of everything that has happened around this. And I did misspeak, I want to correct myself. Epstein was not convicted. He died by suicide while he was awaiting trial, but charged and indicted on many sex trafficking charges in 2019. It's great to see you. Thank you so much for the update.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, coming up. It was an unprecedented decision. The Colorado Supreme Court voting to remove Former President Trump from the state's 2024 ballot. Reaction from the former president and the 2024 GOP hopefuls, that's coming up.

Plus, we're standing by to hear from Secretary of State Antony Blinken at his end of year press conference. This is Israel and Hamas, maybe on the verge, potentially, of another hostage deal, although they are still pretty far apart.

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