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Trump Barred From Colorado Ballot; Iceland Volcano; Israel Resumes Hostage Negotiations With Hamas; Interview With Rep. Chrissy Houlahan (D-PA). Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired December 20, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:11]

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: A sad day in America. This morning, Donald Trump is reacting to the Colorado Supreme Court decision keeping him off the state's 2024 primary ballot. Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold joins us to talk about the unprecedented ruling.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: New hope in Israel. The stalled negotiations to try and get more Israeli hostages released from Hamas captivity, they're beginning once again. The new details on a proposal to pause fighting to try to pull this off.

SIDNER: Plus, officials are saying the level of Iran-backed rebel attacks on shipping vessels in the Red Sea is the worst in two generations. The U.S. now launching a new coalition to try and to protect those critical shipping lanes.

I'm Sara Sidner, with Kate Bolduan. John Berman is off. And this is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: Taking it to the U.S. Supreme Court, that is the promise from Donald Trump's team this morning after the Colorado Supreme Court removed his name from the state's primary ballot.

Now, the 4-3 ruling from Colorado's High Court leaned on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. It's known as the insurrection ban. It prohibits people from taking an oath of office if they have engaged in an insurrection or rebellion.

Now, if Trump's team is going to appeal, they and the U.S. Supreme Court are looking at a tight timeline. Colorado election officials say that they need a certified list of candidates by January 5, which is just three months exactly before the state's primary in March.

CNN's Joan Biskupic has much more on this.

And, really, now the focus, Joan, does turn to the U.S. Supreme Court. What could happen here?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yes, a lot and very fast.

The Colorado state Supreme Court is the first court in the country to say that Donald Trump should be kept off a ballot based on that provision of the 14th Amendment.

It said in its ruling that it concluded that the evidence, the great bulk of which had been proved at trial, established that President Trump engaged in insurrection. President Trump's direct and express efforts over several months, exhorting his supporters to march to the Capitol to prevent what he falsely characterized as an alleged fraud on the people of this country were indisputably overt and voluntary.

Now, I should tell you, Kate, that the three dissenters in this 4-3 case stressed that Donald Trump had never been convicted of insurrection. And there are other questions about whether Donald Trump should even be covered by this provision of the 14th Amendment, as a Colorado trial judge had said, so very weighty questions that are going to be put to the Supreme Court that will affect not just Colorado, but other litigation that's percolating up here.

The timeline you asked about that, the Colorado Supreme Court said that it's ruling should be put on hold until January 4. But if Trump's lawyers get to the Supreme Court by then and at least appeal this, then there could be an indefinite hold until the Supreme Court itself acts.

But we already know from the secretary of state that there's a January 5 deadline for certifying the ballots. There are other deadlines later in January that the state faces to get these ballots out to people. So, time is really going to be of the essence here, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Do you think this will encourage other states to follow suit?

BISKUPIC: I think that some -- first of all, this is a very groundbreaking decision.

As I mentioned, other lower court -- other states' lower courts had not gone this far. But it could open up the potential for these lawsuits to be brought in other places. And, Kate, we're in the primary election cycle now. This could continue until the general election cycle, unless the Supreme Court quickly and definitively resolves whether President -- former President Donald Trump would be covered by this provision -- Kate.

[11:05:12]

BOLDUAN: There is a lot going on here.

Joan, thank you very much.

BISKUPIC: Sure.

SIDNER: Meanwhile, the former president is using this ruling to drive voters to donate to his campaign. His allies and supporters are rallying around him. Even those who are running against him are rallying around him from the Republican Party.

Joining us now is CNN's Jeff Zeleny from Iowa, where the candidates are all over Iowa, trying to convince voters that they are the ones that should be in the front-runner seat, even though Donald Trump clearly is right now in the polling.

What are you hearing?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And, Sara, it certainly is complicated by the fact that every time these candidates are on the verge of trying to draw these distinctions, and really sort of shake voters into reconsidering their choices in this race, they are rallying around the former president and defending him or at least talking against the court rulings.

We heard Nikki Haley, for example, saying that voters should make these decisions. She says: "We're going to win this the correct way. Judges should not be."

But some interesting sound and thinking from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis just a short time ago. He did call the ruling in Colorado unfair. He said that he believes that voters should make these decisions. But he also asked if voters want all this drama hanging over their lives and their presidential race for the next year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Have 2024 to be about this trial, that case, this case, having to put hundreds of millions of dollars into legal stuff, or do we want 2024 to be about your issues, about the country's future?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So that's an electability argument he is making right there, really asking voters if they want to live through all the legal cases and the drama.

That's a word that Nikki Haley uses as well. So, this ruling is just less than a day old. We will see in the coming days here if the Republican rival candidates can get back to their original message.

But it is an uphill road with Republican voters. That was made clear by the overwhelming support for the former president and the sentiment expressed at a rally he held last night here in Iowa shortly after that ruling. This is what some of them had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE HEIPLE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: It's not right that they should take him off the ballot. It's what the people want. Isn't it odd that everything that he does, they attack him for, they file court proceedings against him, but the Democrats can get away with everything?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Of course, there's no sense the Democrats at a national level or local level are involved in this at all. But that is just a whisper, a hint of the conspiracy theories that the former president often espouses, that he's being attacked by his rivals. So, Sara, the bottom line to all of this, the Supreme Court now is going to be a central stop, as well as all the other legal jurisdictions in this presidential campaign. But the first votes begin here in 26 days, if you take the holidays out of there, not much time for campaigning.

But these candidates are still making their way across the state all day today, trying to make their case -- Sara.

SIDNER: We will have to let the caucus-goers make those decisions and see what happens. I know you will be there, Jeff Zeleny. Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Now, moments ago, President Biden's campaign actually held a press call and responded to the Colorado ruling. And this is the first reaction and response we have received from -- Joe Biden has not written, not offered any reaction -- but from his campaign to this Colorado ruling.

And what they said is, they wouldn't comment on ongoing litigation, but did say this -- quote -- "We are prepared for whoever is going to emerge from the primary."

So, there you have that.

Joining us right now is White House correspondent for "USA Today" Francesca Chambers.

It's great to see you, Francesca.

What do you think of that reaction from the Biden campaign? Maybe we shouldn't expect much more than that.

FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, "USA TODAY": This has been consistent with what their strategy has been so far, Kate, which is to not get into any of the legal issues, to say that that is up to the courts, because one of their central arguments has been that the Department of Justice is independent, that the courts are independent, so that Donald Trump cannot make the kinds of claims like his campaign is making that somehow Democrats are involved in this, which there is no evidence of that.

BOLDUAN: Let me play for you -- we had a Democratic senator, close ally of Joe Biden's on the show. Chris Coons was on the show earlier, and I asked him about this Colorado ruling. Let me play what Chris Coons -- how he reacted to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): So, whether it is a court that determines he's unfit to hold office because he took up force against our Constitution or mobilized a mob against our Constitution, or because the electorate throws him out, I don't think it really matters.

If he's unfit to hold office, we should all be encouraged by any action that makes it less likely that he will return to the presidency.

[11:10:04]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I found that kind of an interesting take hearing that from Coons, who is so closely -- who is such a close ally of President Biden's and how he reacted, in saying that, no matter how it comes about, whatever avenue it is that makes him less likely to be president is a good one, in his view.

CHAMBERS: And campaign surrogates can say things that the campaign themselves cannot say were or will not say. And so that could be one of the roles that Chris Coons is playing there.

But he hits on a point that's somewhat similar to what Chris Christie was saying, who has been one of the most vocal people against Donald Trump in the race, to say, well, I don't hate the guy, and, also, I believe that he's unfit to be president. However, this is something that the voters should decide.

And you have heard the other Republican presidential candidates chime in there as well and say, we want the voters to decide, Haley saying she wants to win fair and square.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

I had Chip Roy, Republican congressman, now, speaking of surrogates, a surrogate for Ron DeSantis. He's in Iowa with Ron DeSantis right now today. He was on with me earlier. And he -- it seemed like he was trying his level best to move on from this ruling and not talk about it.

Separating the legal from the political, could one reason be is that this ruling and how Donald Trump talks about it, that it could benefit him in how this is unfolding when it comes to Republican voters?

CHAMBERS: And that's what we have seen in the past is that, every time that Donald Trump lines up in court, that it has often just improved his numbers as he goes out and claims that this is an assault on him and then it's an assault on his supporters.

And when you look at a state like Iowa, where in two polls in the last week, he is at 50 percent or above, for the other candidates to be able to catch up to him, they're going to have to win over some of his voters. They can certainly try to turn out new caucus-goers as well, which is a strategy that his campaign is employing, but, seemingly, to catch up to him, they need to pull over some of the people who are supporting him.

And so far, we have seen the campaigns take the strategy that they think that criticizing him is not the way to do that.

BOLDUAN: You have been following the Nikki Haley campaign very closely. And I wanted to ask you kind of on what you're hearing in terms of the state of play there, because, again, I want to play now -- I want to play now something from Congressman Chip Roy, because he spent a lot of time attacking Nikki Haley and trying to make that distinction, a very firm distinction between Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis, especially as he's standing in Iowa.

Let me play a little bit about what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): With respect to Governor Haley, I mean, look, they're the ones that have dumped $30 million combined in attacking Governor DeSantis. Now, why would that be? Is that because Governor DeSantis can't win, that he's the guy, that's he's falling, or is it that they view him as the front-runner in Iowa, and they're attacking him?

That's the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Which is exactly what the argument that Nikki Haley is making about why Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis are attacking her because of how she is doing.

CHAMBERS: So, in the closing days of the Iowa caucus, we have seen both of these camps do -- the DeSantis camp and the Haley camp, to try and drag down each other's numbers, because both of these campaigns are hopeful that they will get into a head-to-head race with Donald Trump.

And so, in one sense, if the Haley campaign can cool down DeSantis' numbers are enough in Iowa, and it's somehow a blowout for Donald Trump, then potentially forced him in a position where he needs to make a decision heading into New Hampshire, what they hope to have is a situation where, either in New Hampshire or South Carolina, she's in a head-to-head with Donald Trump because they think, in that situation, that they be beat him.

And, certainly, the DeSantis campaign has been saying the same thing for a long time as well. If we can just get a head-to-head race, then we will have a real chance here.

BOLDUAN: Racing towards the endpoint, or the beginning point, really, of it all.

CHAMBERS: Depends on how you look at it.

BOLDUAN: It where you stand on this one.

It's great to see you, Francesca. Thank you.

CHAMBERS: Thanks.

SIDNER: This morning, there are new concerns as a volcanic eruption releases toxic gases into the air.

Look at those pictures taken Tuesday. Potentially, those gases could reach the capital of Iceland. Monday's eruption sent lava and thick plumes of smoke into the air from a vent over two miles' long.

CNN senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen is in Grindavik, Iceland, for us.

You have made it there, where residents are not allowed to be home for Christmas. Fred, can you give us some sense, first of all, what you're seeing, what you're feeling? It is still freezing out there. And yet you have this huge, explosive volcano that is wreaking all sorts of havoc. What can you tell us?

[11:15:00]

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Sara.

Yes, we're actually in a pretty special time right now, because we have just been allowed inside the exclusion zone, essentially, that's been cordoned off by the authorities. We're as close as the authorities are going to let us get right now. We can zoom into what we're seeing right now, Sara. I think we're about a mile, maybe a mile-and-a-half away from the actual fissure that you saw there on that video, where you had those massive explosions that were going on.

SIDNER: Wow.

PLEITGEN: The activity has calmed down a little bit, the authorities are saying, but they are still very concerned.

You mentioned that vent that they were talking about that was spewing lava and magma dozens of feet into the air, sometimes 100 feet into the air. That is still going on. But it's now going on in fewer places.

However, the authorities are saying that they fear that new vents could open up and that then the explosions could get worse. Again, right now, it's not clear. Of course, we know this is all geology. This is seismic activity. This is lava activity that's going on.

So, right now, things have calmed down a little bit. But, certainly, they say the danger has not passed. And one of the things that you were mentioning as well is those toxic gases that the authorities believe are being released right now. We are very close to the Icelandic capital. We are also very close to the main airport here of Iceland.

Right now, those gases haven't become a problem for the authorities yet, but it's, of course, also something that they're looking for as well. I can tell you, from being here on the ground, though, it is quite a natural spectacle, if you will. It is something that is incredible to see, the force of nature, the power of our planet, as it spews this magma into the air.

To be able to see that up close is certainly something that is very special. There's actually a lot of tourists that have come out here as well. For the residents here of this area, they have been told they're not going to be able to return to their houses until at least Christmas. And, of course, if you have something like what you're seeing behind me very close to your house, that's probably not a surprise to most of the folks who have been evacuated.

SIDNER: And, Fred, you don't know this about me, but I am obsessed with volcanoes. And those pictures are just incredible.

You're a full mile away, and we can see it exploding out of the ground from that far away. Absolutely incredible, where you and your team got, and I -- and our hearts go out to those who are out of their homes now and worried about the air quality as well.

Fred Pleitgen, thank you to you and your team for getting there and showing us this amazing pictures.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us: Israel back in negotiations with Hamas to secure the release of more hostages who have been held captive by Hamas in Gaza for nearly three months now, and just as some members of Congress are now urging President Biden to push for a -- the way they're saying it, is a significant shift in Israel's military strategy. More on that.

And the Colorado Supreme Court has spoken, and now we're going to speak to Colorado's top elections official, Colorado's secretary of state, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:22:24]

SIDNER: As Israel reenters hostage negotiations in exchange for a pause in fighting, the war grinds on and civilians in Gaza are still suffering the brunt of those battles.

Here in the United States, a group of House Democrats is calling on President Biden to push Israel for a -- quote -- "immediate and significant shift" of military strategy in Gaza. The plea came in a letter sent to President Biden's desk this week and signed by six Democrats who sit on national security committees.

One of those lawmakers is Democratic Pennsylvania Congresswoman Chrissy Houlahan. She's a member of the House Intelligence and Armed Services committees. And she's joining us now from Pennsylvania, your home state, this morning.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Let's talk about what has happened so far. So far, we have seen the Biden administration send in their top Cabinet members, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan, to Israel. Secretary of State -- Defense -- excuse me -- Lloyd Austin went this week to send a message to change tack and protect civilians better.

Netanyahu, for his part, the prime minister of Israel, doesn't seem to be listening. So what other types of leverage do you think that the Biden administration should and can use?

REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): First of all, thank you for having me again.

And, yes, the letter that we all collectively wrote was an opportunity to speak publicly about some of the things that we, frankly, have been speaking behind the scenes about for quite some time, a real concern that the level of civilian casualties is far too high.

We all understand and agree that Hamas must be eliminated and decapitated and less powerful, but it cannot be at the expense of the Palestinian people. And so what our letter is, is publicly asking our president to make sure he is using all the leverage -- levers that he can.

And those levers, as you have mentioned, are things like diplomatic pressure, things like pressure on the Netanyahu -- on Netanyahu's administration. We have those levers. And then I'm hopeful that some of those are coming to fruition. As you have mentioned, there's conversations in Poland and in Egypt and in Israel about this particular conflict right now.

And I am hopeful that it will resolve in a durable and lasting peace. We have a responsibility to tell Israel honestly, as allies, as strong allies, that we have seen this play before, and we have learned lessons about this sort of a conflict before. We need -- we cannot bomb our way into peace.

We need to make sure that we have a strategy, and that is one of the things that we're trying to articulate publicly, as this group of Democrats has done.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about one of the potential levers.

[11:25:00]

The Biden administration has been very clear publicly that it has no current plans to place any conditions on military aid to Israel. Would you like those conditions to be placed on the aid?

HOULAHAN: I hope that it would never come to that, honestly.

And I think one of the things that I'm frustrated at is the fact that we now have our Congress going home for the holidays without having addressed the issue of aid to Israel, or the issue of aid to Ukraine, or, frankly, the issue of support for our Southern border.

These are all things, in my opinion, that are very much tied to one another. And I want to make sure that we address those really pressing needs. And I'm frustrated, frankly, that this Congress has been so unproductive that we aren't able to support our allies in Ukraine, our allies in Israel, and of course, our own national security through our border.

So I guess my answer would be, this is why we have these conversations. We want to make sure that we are indicating that we are here to help Israel. They are our strongest ally and a beacon of democracy in the Middle East. We want to make sure that what they're doing represents those values, and that we are supportive of them. SIDNER: When you talk about conditions, because you said you hope it

doesn't come to putting conditions on the aid, what conditions? What are some things, other than sending in Cabinet members to have very stark and talks often about the casualty numbers, about the civilians in Gaza, about that the United States believes that Israel is going to really lose a lot of its allies, if you will, when it comes to dealing with this problem as they see so many people being killed?

What conditions specifically do you think have not been met? In other words, what more can the United States and the Biden administration do?

HOULAHAN: We can help in terms of our military experience and advice.

Many of the colleagues who wrote that letter, co-wrote that letter with me were part of the war on terror, decades-long war that we fought in a fairly similar situation, where we learned really hard lessons. We're trying to articulate to the Israeli administration, the Israeli government and the Israeli military how to be more thoughtful, more strategic, and less reactionary to this threat.

I think that those are things that we have also learned and communicated with our help in Ukraine, with our ally with Ukraine. And so I think those are some of the things that we're able to do to help, is under -- explain to people how to be more thoughtful and more forward-thinking in terms of what a durable and lasting peace would look like.

So I think that that's some of the things that are happening behind the scenes, so to speak.

SIDNER: All right, Congresswoman, thank you so much, Chrissy Houlahan, for joining us there from Pennsylvania. And have a wonderful holiday.

HOULAHAN: Thank you. You as well.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us: The Colorado Supreme Court removes Donald Trump from the primary ballot, saying he incited an insurrection on January 6.

Colorado's secretary of state, Jena Griswold, says she will uphold the court's decision, and she joins us next week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)