Return to Transcripts main page
CNN News Central
Headline Info; Headline Info. Aired 09:30-09:59a ET; TX Governor Flies About 100 Migrants to Chicago; Immigration Policy a Key Issue in 2024 Politics, Campaigns; Poll: 42% of IA Caucusgoers "More Likely" to Support Trump After Anti-migrant Remarks; Desantis: Trump "Blood" Language Doesn't "Move the Ball Forward"; Barr: Co Ruling Will "Backfire," End up Helping Trump; Supreme Court Now at Center of Trump Legal Fights & 2024 Election; Hamas: No Hostage Talks Until IDF Ends Military Operation; Dems Sign Letter to Biden Urging Him to Push Israel for "Immediate and Significant Shift" of Military Strategy; AAA Forecasts Record-Setting Air Travel This Week; Today: Winter Begins as Millions Set Out for Holiday. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired December 21, 2023 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: It's starting to be able to find shelter for these migrants. There are more flights coming in, continuing to strain the resources. And then finally, Omar, to put it plainly, Governor Greg Abbott says this is in direct retaliation for a city ordinance that allows them to impound buses who drop migrants off at places that are not designated to take migrants. We know that in at least one case, a bus was impounded, apparently angering Governor Greg Abbott, who is now taking to flying migrants to Chicago. Omar.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it highlights some of the issues that mayors in major cities across the country have been dealing with, especially there, as you mentioned, with Mayor Brandon Johnson in Chicago. Whitney Wild, thank you so much.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And seeing the crisis at the border continue, Donald Trump is leaning in as only Donald Trump would. He was criticized as we've been talking about this week after his anti- immigrant comments on the trail telling supporters that migrants are quote, "poisoning the blood of the country."
The anger over that rhetoric though, not showing signs of hurting him among some key Republican voters in this moment. The Des Moines Register, NBC Mediacom poll showing 42% of likely Iowa Republican caucusgoers saying they are more likely to support Trump after his poisoning the blood comment, not less.
Ron DeSantis is now talking about Trump's campaign, the Trump's immigration campaign pitch. Here's his take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you start talking about using those types of terms, I don't think that that helps us move the ball forward. I would not put it in those terms. I want to stop the invasion at the border 100%, but then legal immigration should really only be for people that buy into our core values as a country and that actually want to assimilate into American society.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Joining me now, CNN Senior Political Analyst & Anchor John Avlon and CNN Senior Political Commentator Scott Jennings. Thanks for being here guys. Okay, John, 42% of likely Republican Iowa caucusgoers saying they're more likely to support Trump after his poison comments. Is this not the lesson of what we have learned from eight years of Donald Trump in public life, which is he says this and he gets more support amongst his core Republican base?
What does it tell you?
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST & ANCHOR: Well, first of all, I appreciate you kind of saying, what can we learn? What have we learned over the last eight years?
BOLDUAN: I'm big on lessons.
AVLON: Yeah, lessons. I'm a fan. Look, clearly Donald Trump has a hardcore constituency inside the Republican Party. Some recent New York Times poll put it at 37% of Republicans say they'll support him no matter what.
And for some folks on the far right, they're poisoning the blood of our country language, which is lifted from sort of, you know, demagogues and dictators throughout history apparently resonates. I will say, Iowa, which is one of the most educated states in the country per capita, and famed for Iowa nice, this seems to be out of step with that.
But a state--
BOLDUAN: They hear strength. They don't hear the -- that's what you have to think, Iowa Republican voters. They hear strength, they hear stronger on the border.
AVLON: I think we need to do a better job, if you -- the most educated state in the country per capita, distinguished between strength and demagoguery that demonizes people in order to scapegoat them for whatever frustrations you might be feeling because that's the age old game that's being playing.
But I think it does require Republicans, and Iowa Republicans also, to look in the mirror. And for the grass topped leaders in that state to say, this is not ultimately who we are. Yeah, he's got a constituency, but it can't define the Republican Party, nor should it define the state.
BOLDUAN: And then Scott, on the heels of that, we heard from Ron DeSantis now saying that he doesn't think those comments are helpful, they don't move the ball forward. But how does that fit into the case that he's trying to make to Republicans? SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he's trying to argue that rhetoric and being tough in rhetoric is different than being tough in actually trying to get something done. Part of the overall DeSantis pitch is that no matter what Donald Trump says, he made you a lot of promises on illegal immigration that he didn't keep.
And so, once again, on another topic, that's really the core of the DeSantis argument, is effectiveness over rhetoric. I think on this rhetoric, you know, you ask, what have we learned? Well, we've learned a couple of things. Number one, Republicans do not like illegal immigration, and they see this as a real crisis, and they want someone to be publicly tough.
But remember guys, number two, who's going crazy about this right now? The press, the media is going crazy about this language. And so, when Republicans see the media going nuts about something that Trump said, they reflexively rally to Trump. Have we learned anything? In the last eight years? No, we have not learned anything because that's what the Republicans--
BOLDUAN: It's this--
JENNINGS: Are looking for. Who's mad about this?
BOLDUAN: Well, it's --
JENNINGS: And if the right people are mad about it, or I'm going to back Trump on it.
BOLDUAN: It's interesting we've talked, the three of us have talked about this extensively, is how the need to discuss something that is newsworthy to discuss and the need to not --
JENNINGS: Yeah.
BOLDUAN: I'm just going to use the word hyperventilate because I can't--
JENNINGS: Mm-hmm.
BOLDUAN: Think of a better word for it right now.
But how to get that right is the eight years long lesson that I'm still trying to work out. Let me add something else into this conversation, Scott. The fight over what is happening at the border is now also becoming center stage on Capitol Hill too. Democrats, Republicans are negotiating over this tougher immigration rules linked to the supplemental, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, regardless, they're negotiating over the border at this moment.
[09:35:04]
JENNINGS: Yeah.
BOLDUAN: And McConnell and Schumer actually seem to be playing really nice and trying to work-- JENNINGS: Yeah.
BOLDUAN: Together to get through this on this, but then you have you've got Jeff Merkley who told me on the show this week. He thinks Republicans don't want an immigration deal because they want to preserve it as an election issue. And then you have Schumer saying this in a new interview to the Washington Post, which I thought was really interesting.
He says, I think they, Republicans, realize it's the right thing to do, and I think they realize that Democrats have moved--
JENNINGS: Mm-hmm.
BOLDUAN: Much more to the middle on border security. Going on to say, I think Republicans are seeing that Democrats are real about border security, consistent with our principles. I saw that and it really kind of made my ears pop up.
Because it's telling me --
SCOTT: Yeah.
BOLDUAN: How strong a factor immigration really could be this cycle, Scott.
SCOTT: Huh.
JENNINGS: Oh, look, everybody needs a deal here. Joe. Worst of all, Joe Biden. I mean, if I were Joe Biden, I'd go up to Capitol Hill and say, I will literally sign anything you put in front of me and not listen to the carping from the left that he's getting right now.
This thing is dragging him down. The people think he has failed on it. And what he needs to do is A rekindle the conversation that he started in 2020 about being a bipartisan dealmaker and B inoculate himself because if he signs off, on what the Republicans want to do then when the attacks come in the fall he can say, well, I don't know what your problem is, I signed your bill. Failure to get a deal here for him is bad, that's why he should sign whatever.
I totally disagree, I think Republicans want a deal, I think their constituents are screaming for border security and they all know it and I know there's a lot of cynicism around this conversation right now but I'm very hopeful that the political circumstances may produce something here that everybody can be proud of.
BOLDUAN: Me? Cynical? How dare you, Scott?
SCOTT: I mean, please, look. You know, we all know that, you know, cynicism passes for wisdom in Washington for a reason, but it is good to see McConnell and Schumer working together to try to solve a problem. And if this gets done, it'll be because there'll be 60 senators in the center.
From the Republican and Democratic Party who support it. And that's the way things usually get done at the end of the day. So, I agree with Scott about the opportunity to solve a problem. And there's actual political upside for people that want to be, you know, problem solvers opposed to demagogues.
BOLDUAN: New Year's resolution that Kate will be less cynical--
SCOTT: Come on.
BOLDUAN: And Scott will be so much nicer to me. I'm just kidding. Real quick, John, I just want to get your take.
SCOTT: Okay.
BOLDUAN: Bill Barr's --
SCOTT: Mm-hmm.
BOLDUAN: Bill Barr talking to Jake Tapper and saying that he thinks that regardless of he disagrees with the legal basis of the Colorado ruling removing Trump from the ballot, he thinks that it is only going to help him.
What is it? He's like -- I'm going to read it.
SCOTT: Uh-huh.
BOLDUAN: He feeds on grievance just like fire feeds on oxygen. Do you think that's kind of it in a nutshell?
SCOTT: I think that's a good description of the short-term political impact, but it's exactly the wrong reasoning for why you shouldn't apply the law.
The Constitution says what it says. The 14th Amendment exists. Doing it a la carte or feeling like it shouldn't be imposed because it's too difficult politically is a terrible idea. This should be applied without regard to partisanship, just looking at the underlying principles. And on that, my analysis, and, you know, due respect to Bill Barr, you look at the history, it was designed to apply to people who gave aid or comfort to an insurrection, and it was designed to apply to a president.
BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, John. Wonderful to see you, Scott. Thank you.
JENNINGS: Kate, if the Supreme Court upholds this thing, I'll wash your car for a year.
SCOTT: There is no way! There's no way this court's going to uphold it!
BOLDUAN: Now --
JENNINGS: Now who's cynical?
BOLDUAN: Now I can't be an unbiased arbiter of this! Now clearly, I need my car washed! Thanks guys! Alright--
SCOTT: See you.
BOLDUAN: Thank you guys for coming up for us. Talks to try to free more hostages being held captive by Hamas. They have hit a wall. What Hamas is declaring this morning the terrorist organization drawing a hard line and Harvard is responding now to new allegations against the school's president why Congress is launching a new investigation into the Harvard leader.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:43:28]
BOLDUAN: New this morning, Hamas says that there will be no talks about releasing any more hostages until Israel ends its military operation in Gaza. They put out a statement this morning saying just that. This comes after Israel has said it had proposed a week long pause in fighting in exchange for the release of 40 hostages, a similar deal to the one last month that brought about a temporary truce.
Let's talk about this. Joining us right now is Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, Seth Moulton. He sits on the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, thanks for coming in.
You know, one of the assumptions--
SETH MOULTON, (D) Massachusetts: Good to see you.
BOLDUAN: All along was that Hamas would always hold some hostages because it is their only leverage.
The CIA Director, Bill Burns, he's become central in trying to keep these negotiations to get hostages released going. What do you think the administration can do or should do, or how should they advise Israel on what they should do right now after Hamas declares this this morning?
MOULTON: Well, first of all, let's be honest.
There's not too much that the administration can do. But the administration has been pretty central to getting the hostages returned that have been given back. It's important to remember that the only reason that a lot of hostages were returned in the last deal is because there was a deal. It wasn't a unilateral ceasefire by Israel.
A lot of people in America have been calling for a unilateral ceasefire. And if Israel had just had a ceasefire on its own without making a hostage deal, those hostages would still be in Hamas custody. So, there has to be a dialogue. That dialogue is happening in Qatar. It's being facilitated in part by the Americans. But at the end of the day, it's really up to the two players on the ground, to Israel and Hamas, to make the deal.
[09:45:14]
BOLDUAN: Yeah. You signed onto a letter this week, sent to the Biden administration with some other key members of Congress, some of the key committees, really imploring them to do more to get Israel to shift its military strategy kind of away from the high intensity operations we've been seeing in the bombings in Gaza.
But all signs point to the fact that the administration isn't already has been doing this, Defense Secretary was in Israel this week, pressing for a strategy shift. Biden has done the same, even saying, you know, to fundraiser last week that he thinks Israel's losing international support because of indiscriminate bombing of Gaza.
So if it hasn't happened, what do you think is going to bring about that shift that you think Israel needs to turn to and still take out Hamas?
MOULTON: No, it's a fair question, Kate, because I think there was good evidence that Israel was listening to the administration at the beginning of the war. In fact, we in Congress were briefed in a classified setting that the invasion would start much sooner than it did.
They delayed the invasion based on administration advice to take it more slowly, to devise a better plan before they went into Gaza. But it's hard to say that Israel is listening to us now. They're clearly doubling down on these same tactics. But all of us, all of us, including the veterans in Congress who wrote this letter, want to see Israel succeed in its mission to eliminate Hamas.
Hamas has to be eliminated if Israel is ever going to be secure and if the Palestinians are ever going to be free. Let's not forget Hamas is an organization with the destruction of Israel written into its charter, an organization that uses its own people, the people of the Gaza Strip as human shields in this conflict.
So, we want to see Israel succeed in getting rid of Hamas and we're concerned that their current tactics are not going to achieve that goal. That you can't win what is fundamentally a counterinsurgency fight just by killing your way out of a solution. Because every time you kill innocent civilians, and we know that Israel has done a lot of that.
You help recruit terrorists to the cause. So, my hope is that ultimately Israel will see what we're trying to tell them. We're trying to share a bunch of lessons that we learned painfully over years of fighting insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our hope is that Israel will finally see that their success is dependent on their changing their tactics.
BOLDUAN: Add to this, something that Secretary Blinken raised yesterday in his press conference. He's talking about the growing international pressure that's mounting on Israel to back down and to stop the war as opposed to Hamas. And the way that the secretary talks about it is he says, you know, he said it was striking to him to hear many countries urging Israel to stop the war.
Virtually everyone demanding that, but virtually no one saying that Hamas needs to stop and Hamas needs to stop hiding behind civilians. Hamas isn't, you know, he says, like, and Hamas could end this tomorrow. Hamas isn't going to do that. So, how do you get this right then?
MOULTON: Well, you're right. I mean, we can't stop to emphasize that all of this would end if Hamas, this terrorist organization, would simply give up.
It'd be good for them. Fewer of them would get killed. It'd be much better for the Palestinians. It would save a lot of lives in Gaza. And of course, that's at the end of the day what we want to see happen for Israel. So, yes, this is very true, I mean, look, this is similar to why it's so absurd that you hear people like Donald Trump pressuring Ukraine to essentially surrender and negotiate with the Russians, when Putin could end that war in a heartbeat by stopping his illegal invasion.
So, the bottom line is yes. Just like Putin is the aggressor in Ukraine, Hamas is the aggressor here with Israel and Gaza. But the reality is, as you said, Kate, they're not just going to stop on their own. So, what Israel needs to do is change its tactics to a way that envisions a political solution that both sides can buy into.
And ultimately tries to not just eliminate Hamas terrorists, but also win over the people of Palestine to that idea, to that political future. International support is important for this because I don't think anyone believes that you can have a successful political two state solution without the support of Arab nations.
So, when Secretary Blinken cautions Israel that they're losing international support, that's not just a backhanded way to put pressure on them to change their tactics. That's a real serious recognition that if you want peace at the end of the day, you're probably going to need an international coalition to help make it happen.
BOLDUAN: Nothing easy about this in the slightest.
MOULTON: No.
BOLDUAN: Congressman, thank you for coming in. It's good to see you.
MOULTON: Good to see you too, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Thanks.
JIMENEZ: All right, we still got a lot more news to cover this morning. For one, today is expected to be the busiest day for holiday air travel. We're going to have a live look at how things are moving.
Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:54:06]
JIMENEZ: If your holiday plans start today, you're in good company, just not my company because I'm still working. But triple A forecast record setting air travel between Christmas and New Year's with back to back three day weekends driving up holiday travel numbers. The Transportation Secretary, Pete Buttigieg, is warning severe weather could cause major delays.
CNN Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean is live at Reagan National Airport. Why can't we just have a normal holiday travel without weather being a concern? That would be -- yeah, yeah. So Pete, what are things looking like this morning? What should people be watching out for?
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Things are pretty smooth today, you know, the FAA is warning of possible ground stops today for the three major New York airports and in Boston because of high wind, but the numbers are pretty low. About 50 cancellations, according to FlightAware 840 delays. Today is the official start of the holiday travel rush, according to the TSA.
It anticipated 2.5 million people at airports across the country today. They just updated that number 2.65 million people is the new expectation. 2.69 people tomorrow. Think about where we were a year ago today. It was the official start of the Southwest Airlines 10 day long meltdown. 16, 900 flights cancelled, 2 million people stranded. The good news is airlines have done a lot better this year, especially when you look at Thanksgiving. About 1.3% of all flights cancelled this year.
About 20% of all flights delayed though, an average of 52 minutes. And I asked Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg about that number, and he says there still needs to be work on delays.
[09:55:48]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Now, so far this year on the cancellation front, we're at 1.2%. Below 2 is what I would consider healthy.
Closer to 1, if we can keep it that way, that's encouraging. That does invite us to pay more attention to the issue of delays and to press the airlines on how they're behaving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MUNTEAN: The warning from the Transportation Secretary, we could see some weather. Snag things later on as this week develops. The good news, though, is today looks like it will be relatively smooth for all those people traveling.
The FAA says 49, 000 flights anticipated to be handled by the nation's air traffic controllers. JIMENEZ: And look, I know people have already been trying to forget, but if we made it through the meltdown that was the last holiday season and travel, the bar is pretty low for how things go this time around. Sounds like it's starting out smoothly.
Pete Muntean, thanks so much.
BOLDUAN: The mayor of Reagan Airport back at it again. We'll get back to being together throughout the show. Coming up for us, Donald Trump's campaign now crafting a strategy to directly capitalize off that Colorado Supreme Court ruling. We'll be right back.
[10:00:00]
