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2024 U.S. President Election; DeSantis Now at a Campaign Rally in Iowa; Before Caucuses, Republican Candidates Campaign Throughout Iowa; GOP Challengers of Trump for 2024 Criticize the Colorado Judgment; Czech Police: Several Killed, Dozens Wounded in Charles University Shooting; Hamas Says No Talks on Hostages Until IDF Military Operation Ends; Israel-Hamas War; U.S. Intelligence Agencies Worry About Hamas's Increasing Power; CNN Crew Takes Helicopter Tour of Iceland's Erupting Volcano. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 21, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

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SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): That's why I think all this should happen.

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY AND CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But the split Congress has not been productive.

MANCHIN: This has not been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, just even if there is a deal on the border, there are still so many questions about how that would play out. Because as I said, you cut a deal on the border, perhaps you move forward with Ukraine and Israel aid, but the Liberals -- the members of the president's own party are concerned about the concessions that he is making to try to cut a deal for more restrictive immigration policies. Then you have folks on the right who are concerned that it is not going far enough when it comes to more immigration restrictions, particularly in the Republican-led house.

So, you can see right there the challenges of getting any proposal through that could deal with that issue and also help Ukraine and Israel at a time of war, not to mention those key-ish deadlines that are coming up. That will be here fast to keep the government open, which is why you're hearing a lot of fears and concerns about what comes next in the new year. Omar.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Manu, if you sleep, get a lot of it in the next few weeks because that sounds like it's going to be a busy January. Mine --

RAJU: Thanks, Omar. Yes.

JIMENEZ: Thank you so much. KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Also, right now, Ron DeSantis is in Coralville, Iowa campaigning, making his final pitch to as many caucus scores as he can meet. As for the front-runner, Donald Trump, he's busy on social media. Declaring just now he is, "Not an insurrectionist." Quite a declaration one feels that they must make these days. This is after the Colorado Supreme Court, of course, ruled that he needs to be removed from the ballot there for inciting insurrection on January 6th.

Joining us right now for more on this is CNN Political Analyst and New York Times national politics reporter Astead Herndon. So, Astead, let's start there, and talk about Colorado. Donald Trump is fundraising off of it. He's declaring he's not an insurrectionist on social media. And, broadly, every Republican candidate also out there is essentially coming to his defense.

When I -- he -- and how I hear them talking about it, do you think it's just the safest political place for them to be in the primary? They don't want to be talking about him. They want to be talking themselves.

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That's very clear. But now they're, kind of, coming having to come out to defend them.

HERNDON: This is the juxtaposition that's been true the whole race. This week, you have Ron DeSantis in Iowa. You have Nikki Haley holding 10 events there.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

HERNDON: But Donald Trump is talking about this Colorado case, and they're having to defend him because, to your point, they do think that's the safest political bet. They need his voters, and enough of the Republican base has rallied around him in recent weeks for, I think, there's a sense that you cannot come out against him. And so, you'll hear them talk about baggage.

You'll hear them talk about maybe he has some parts of his history that are not palatable to independents or swing voters, but they will not say Donald Trump has committed acts that make him unpresidential. They're not going to the kind of core disqualification point, and I think that that's really the baseline of what you'll see from Republican candidates.

BOLDUAN: It also feels to me safe in the sense that because that gets decided by a court.

HERNDON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: I don't have to weigh in on that they can say. What -- and it is -- it sounds like a strong political argument when talking about voters, which is but I'm not afraid to take them on. I want to -- I want the voters to decide. HERNDON: Exactly. They're passing the buck to the voters. And I think there is some truth to that. I mean --

BOLDUAN: I agree.

HERNDON: -- when you think about -- and say impeachment, right? There was a political process that could have disqualified Donald Trump on the grounds of insurrection, but Senate Republicans didn't take that up. Now, you're, kind of, seeing the candidates really pass the buck and say, well, voters should defeat him at the ballot box.

But I do think we should acknowledge that there's a legal system here for a reason. And I think it's kind of incompatible for some folks to say that they see Donald Trump as someone who committed an act of insurrection. And then say, oh, well, it's out of the court's hands. I mean, some of these questions put us in uncharted waters.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

HERNDON: But at the same time, I do think there is a rock and a hard place that Republican candidates are in where the political and the legal are in conflict.

BOLDUAN: That's true. So, I want to read just a bit that Dave -- how David Frum wrote about this. He wrote a column for -- this in "The Atlantic". And the way he put it is, if upheld by the Supreme Court, the Colorado's court decision might yet save the GOP from itself. The immediate reaction of many of them -- the candidates.

HERNDON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Was as usual to cower and truckle. I don't know. Truckle is not a word I use. I'm just going to say. To take Trump's side against their own, this is their last exit. If they drive past, there will not be another before the primary is finished. I don't know. What do you think?

HERNDON: I would actually say, I would go even further than that. I mean, Republicans have not even tilled the ground. They have not made a kind of permission structure for candidates. So, at this point, if they say, fine, this is the final straw. You should turn on Donald Trump. A lot of these voters have seen the last couple years develop, and they're kind of in the cadence of coming to his defense.

We were talking to folks at the Iowa State Fair, and I remember one guy telling me this has never -- this make his resolve stronger to vote for Donald Trump, even if he was considered in other candidates. So, if other candidates want to rest the way Trump's voters, they're going to have to speak directly to that, and that's not something they've been willing to do so far.

BOLDUAN: What do you think -- different topic that's coming equally front and center. What do you think of how the conversation around the border in immigration has also once again become front and center, and it's not just in the Republican primary.

HERNDON: Yes.

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BOLDUAN: The quotes I'm seeing from Chuck Schumer to "The Washington Post", saying that they need to realize that Democrats are getting real on immigration in the border as well. That really shows this, the crisis that's playing out of the border, is not just a political talking about. It's a policy problem that all of them are facing too.

HERNDON: It's been a policy problem, and I think the politics are --

BOLDUAN: For three decades, but yes.

HERNDON: And the politics is really late to this, I think we should say is that -- actually, Democrats and Republicans are acknowledging the share of policy problem. Maybe for the first time, the way I think a public is kind of pushing them to do so.

BOLDUAN: That's a good point.

HERNDON: I remember back in the Democratic primary in 2019 and 2020, you would hear a lot of Democrats call out Donald Trump for his immigration policy and rhetoric. They've said they're -- they said very little about what their kind of projections would be when they're in office. I think some of that is coming back around right now because there is a legitimate kind of question about what that policy should be.

And I think that we're going to have -- there's real tensions within the Democratic Party and the electorate around that, and some of that is coming to the fore right now. But you see the White House making very clear that they're open to new kind of restrictions on the border, and I think that plays to who their audience is for a general election. They do not want Republicans to be able to say that President Biden did nothing on this issue. And I think that's why you see Chuck Schumer and the White House really come out on this front.

BOLDUAN: It is really interesting how it -- I don't even want to know if I call it an evolution, but the conversation around immigration --

HERNDON: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- and the politics of it, it's a really interesting moment in that as well. It's great to see you, Astead.

HERNDON: Yes, thank you for having me.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming in.

JIMENEZ: Coming up next, we are following a deadly shooting in the Czech Republic where police say several have been killed at Charles University in Prague, the latest just ahead.

Plus, talks to try to free more hostages being held captive by Hamas have hit a wall. What Hamas is declaring this morning, the U.S. designated terrorist organization is drawing a hard line, that's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BOLDUAN: We're continuing to follow the breaking news this hour out of Prague. There are some new images coming in as Czech police are responding to a deadly shooting at Charles University. Now, police have put out information, a tweet saying that the gunman has, in their words, been eliminated, but also saying in the new information released that there are several dead and injured at the scene.

Now, early information is that the shooting happened at the philosophy building at Charles University in Central Prague. So much unknown as this is very clearly unfolding as we speak.

I want to get over to CNN Senior Producer Ivana Kottasova joins us now on the phone near Prague. Ivana, tell me what you are hearing. What is the very latest that you've been able to get?

IVANA KOTTASOVA, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: Hi, Kate. The very latest indeed is that the shooter has been eliminated, as the police say. We know that there is number of dead people. The police nor the emergency services have not told us the exact number, but the emergency services are speaking about single digit dead people, and a bigger number of injured people. We know that all the Prague hospitals and the whole emergency system has put into place an emergency plan, so all of the hospitals are ready to receive injured people.

What I can tell you about the area, this is extremely busy place just downtown in Prague. This is very touristy, very popular place. If you ever visit Prague, this is one of the places where you'll certainly go. It's a beautiful place. You can see the castle just across the river. So, chances are there would have been large number of people in the area when this incident unfolded. A large number of tourists as well.

BOLDUAN: And, also -- I mean, we're just right before the holidays. I know exactly where this is in the in the very few times that I've been to Prague. Were -- are students at the university still, obviously, it's right before Christmas. Would -- tell me what you're hearing about that.

KOTTASOVA: I believe so. So, the students would have been in the building. I'm not sure whether lectures would have been held at that particular time, but it is just before the holidays. So, this -- the -- but the college has not broken up for Christmas yet. So, students would have been in the building indeed.

BOLDUAN: Ivana, trying to gather some more information. Thanks so much for jumping on so quickly. We're going to stay close to you.

In the meantime, let me bring in CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem for more on this. Juliette, early information but it sounds terrifying what people are going through there if this shooting takes place in the philosophy building at this university, really in the center of downtown Prague, which creates its own dangers and risks and count -- and complications for authorities as they're trying to respond.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DHS: That's exactly right. Look, this is a unique, obviously. Czechoslovakia has permits gun ownership with a very, very serious registration requirement. It has one of the lowest gun ownerships in Europe for its population. So, it's not that they don't -- aren't aware that this could happen. It is just not familiar to them in the way that it is, say, in the United States. That being said, two pieces right now, and we -- and we're still getting information.

[10:45:00]

One is clearly the family unification and family notification. You do have dead victims. We don't know if they're students. It's the holidays. It's a busy time. They're -- and they need to get that in order, which is what they're clearly doing by these notifications that we're seeing.

The second is, of course, the motive. We don't know now. And so, we'll be really, really careful. The motive will be, easier to come by because they have the gunman, presumably it's a man. And they will look to three categories. You know, one is going to be, pure just randomness. Someone just goes into a busy area and shoots. The other is some affiliation with the university. Our producer said it was a specific building, the philosophy building, so they'll try to determine was this a student, a staff member, a faculty member? And the third is, of course, is there a political motive based on the threat environment today? And that's all we know right now as we assess this tragedy.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And it's been much more information. We will be gathering and bringing it to our viewers. But what Juliette points out is also really noteworthy, and thanks for highlighting it, Juliette. It's just how unique and rare this is where in Prague. This is why this is one thing to keep an eye on as we gather more information from Czech authorities on this. Juliette, thank you so much.

Juliette's going to stay close to us. We have a CNN senior producer who's going to be --

KAYYEM: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: -- gathering more information for us as well on the ground. We're going to bring you those updates when we get them.

Omar.

JIMENEZ: Yes. We'll continue to stay on it. I also want to bring in some new reporting this morning. Hamas says, there will be no talks about releasing any of the hostages until the Israeli military operation in Gaza is over. Meanwhile, there are disturbing new warnings from U.S. intelligence agency. There's a flurry of new analysis showing that the credibility and influence of Hamas has grown since the brutal October 7th attacks on Israel. So, joining us with more on the growing influence of Hamas, Retired US Air Force Colonel and CNN Military Analyst Cedric Leighton. Always good to see you. So, for starters -- I mean, Hamas's influence globally has grown as our reporting has shown since Israel's war campaign has waned due in part to seeing images and videos, like these out of Gaza. This is out of Jabalya in Gaza in particular. So, this appears to be the aftermath of some sort of strike. There are bodies in the street there as well. How might some of these images change the global perspective or how might some of these images shift Israel's military tactics at all in the context of the global perception here?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, FORMER MEMBER OF JOINT STAFF, PENTAGON, AND FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR TRAINING, NSA: Yes, Omar, good morning. It's great to be with you. The built problem that the Israelis have is precisely what you're pointing out there, Omar. And that fact is this, you know, we're seeing almost daily, if not hourly, videos of this type. And what they show, of course, is the destruction that the IDF has brought about within Gaza.

And what we're also seeing is in, perhaps, an unfiltered way, in some cases, the suffering of the civilian population there. That resonates with people all around the world. And from a practical strategic standpoint, you're looking at a situation where that influences people's perceptions. They tend to forget about what happened on October 7th and with the Hamas attack on the Israeli civilians, and so -- in Israel that killed about 1,200 or so people. That is, you know, now put on the wayside as horrible as that was, and then we take a look at what's happening now.

So, the tactics that the Israelis are using as part of their strategy to confront Hamas, those tactics are appeared to be heavy handed, and they, of course, are costing a lot of lives. And that resonates with people all around the world, and really difficult for the Israelis and to their supporters in the U.S. to really move forward --

JIMENEZ: And there are still --

LEIGHTON: -- from a diplomatic standpoint.

JIMENEZ: Sorry. Sorry to cut you off there. But there are still 129 hostages in Gaza according to the Israeli prime minister's office. They are obviously weighing that with their other proposed goal of trying to destroy Hamas outright. I want to also just mention that the United States is weighing a potential U.N. Security Council vote today on a resolution to end the war.

Some major points here, halt to hostilities, unhindered humanitarian access into Gaza. I mean, based on what's on table right now, do you see that as a potential issue for the United States to sign on to what could potentially be proposed at the U.N. today, or where do you anticipate some of the sticking points being?

LEIGHTON: Yes. I think, Omar, one of the main sticking points seems to be the difference in verbiage between ceasefire and a pause in fighting. The U.S. has previously signed on to the idea of a pause in the fighting. A ceasefire has been seen as, in essence, stopping Israel in its tracks and preventing it from achieving its goal of destroying Hamas.

[10:50:00]

The U.S. shares Israel's goal of destroying Hamas, especially after what happened on October 7th. But I -- in terms of this U.N. resolution or this possible U.N. resolution, I -- it probably won't go anywhere because the United States won't agree to the idea of not having a pause as opposed to a ceasefire. And that, I think, is going to cause some problems.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Yes, well, we will see. Again, we expect that U.N. Security Council vote today after what have been a number of delays at this point. So, we will see. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, flying over an active volcano. CNN with a new look at Iceland's erupting volcano from an incredible vantage point, that's ahead.

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[10:55:00]

BOLDUAN: This morning, we have new views of the volcanic eruption in Iceland from the sky. A CNN team captured these images of the miles- long eruption. The -- and the unpredictable nature of this volcano is also forcing nearby residents out of their homes still and meaning that also includes for the Christmas holiday.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is joining us. He's in Iceland. And, Fred, you had the opportunity to do this, to fly over this thing. What did you see?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It certainly was really remarkable. It was a nighttime flight, actually, over the eruption zone because it is almost always night here in this Arctic area. But the -- you can see that the eruption is still very much ongoing, but certainly the seismic activity and the volcanic activity has died down a great deal.

What we didn't see is vents that were spewing lava as we have in the past couple of days, but, certainly, you could still see the magma under us. And you know what was really remarkable about the whole thing, Kate, is that we could not only see the lava below us, but we could also smell the eruption as well. You could smell those gases that the authorities here have been talking about. You don't want to be exposed to that for an extended period of time, you could also feel the heat because we were flying fairly low over that magma field.

Now, what seismologists were saying, we had one actually with us on the flight that we were taking, is they say that this is an eruption that is -- was extremely furious at the beginning. We saw those images of those fountains of magma spewing into the air, but also seems to be dying down quickly. But one of the things that you mentioned is absolutely correct, is that the danger has not passed.

In fact, I just came back from a town called Grindavik, which is just down the road from where I am right now, and there are cracks already in the ground there because the magma tunnel that led to that eruption is right under that town, and that's why the folks from that town, they can go in there for a short period of time. They definitely cannot stay overnight. And as you mentioned, unfortunately, they certainly won't be home for Christmas, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Unbelievable. Thank you so much, Fred. It's great to have you there.

JIMENEZ: Coming up for us, the highest court in the land is in the middle of several legal battles that could shape the 2024 election and who's in it? That's next.

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