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Detroit News Reports, Trump Pressured Election Workers to Not Certify Vote; Key Indicators Released Today Show Inflation Slowing; Biden Campaign Heads into 2024 Ready to Make Case Against Trump. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 22, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A Trump call recorded again. This time, he's heard pressuring two local Michigan election workers to not certify the 2020 presidential election. The call, the promises made on the call and the potential fallout today.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, President Biden heading into the New Year with a campaign game plan and a target. Yes, as you might imagine, the target is Donald Trump. The message he plans on delivering to voters in key battleground states, that's ahead.

BOLDUAN: If you're traveling for the holidays, take comfort in knowing you'll be joined by millions of your closest friends that you have never met yet. The busiest Christmas air travel season ever is underway and we're tracking how things are going for you.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sarah Sidner. John is off today. This is CNN News Central.

SIDNER: Donald Trump, again, recorded pressuring officials in his futile attempts to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 election. First, it was in Georgia, where he called the secretary of state and everyone heard that phone call. Then it was Arizona, where he called the governor and House speaker. We have heard that testimony. Now, The Detroit News has unearthed audio in Michigan, where Donald Trump was recorded pressuring election workers, not to certify the vote there.

Imagine getting that phone call. Here's how it all went down. On November 17th, 2020, canvassers in Wayne County met to certify the election in favor of Joe Biden because he won. Two GOP workers initially voted no, but were then chastised by their fellow Canvassers. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All those who oppose, say nay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no reason under the sun for us to not certify this election. I believe that politics made its presence here today.

This is reckless and irresponsible actioned by this board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Those words got some traction, they changed their votes then to yes to certify the election. The next day, they were sent to come back in to sign that certification, but before they formally signed the papers, the then-president, Donald Trump, called those two workers.

In a newly released transcript from the Detroit News who broke this story, it says Trump asked them, quote, how can anybody sign something when you have more votes than people?

It's important to note that CNN does not have these recordings and we do not and we are not able to independently listen to them, but The Detroit News is a great paper.

So, CNN's Marshall Cohen joins us now from D.C. Marshall, what else did Trump get caught saying on that call and what's happening after this?

[10:05:00]

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Sara, he said a lot. And it is incredible that we are now finally getting to learn exactly what he said. We knew at the time in November 2020 that he had made these calls, but we didn't know what happened on the calls. And now, thanks to The Detroit News, we know.

So, let me read for you some of these quotes. This is Donald Trump on this phone call with the local officials in Wayne County. That's in Detroit. He said, quote, we can't let these people take our country away from us. Everybody knows that Detroit is crooked as hell.

He was peddling false claims about dead people voting in Detroit and shifting the votes away from him and towards Joe Biden. Of course, that was a complete lie.

This is where it really gets serious, this next quote. Ronna McDaniel, who is the chairwoman of the RNC, she's also from Michigan, she was on the call, too. And she told them, do not sign it, referring to those certification papers, do not sign it. We will get you attorneys. And that is where Trump followed up and said, we'll take care of that.

Sara, why would you need an attorney if you're not doing anything wrong? It's a critical question. And this is why tapes like these will definitely factor into the criminal trial here in D.C. against Donald Trump, where he is accused of doing stuff just like this to disenfranchise voters and overturn the results of an election that he lawfully lost. SIDNER: Yes. Calling the attorney sometimes indicates consciousness of guilt, a term I have learned from Elie Honig, by the way.

This does implicate not only Trump, but has some tentacles to RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, how is her camp responding this morning? And what's Donald Trump's camp saying?

COHEN: Well, look, McDaniel said that all she ever wanted was a check of the votes, an audit of the votes. She says that there's always shenanigans in Detroit, and she just wanted an audit and was not trying to interfere with the results.

Okay. There's also what the Trump campaign has said in response. This is a statement put out from Stephen Cheung, the top spokesman for the Trump campaign. Quote, all of President Trump's actions were taken in furtherance of his duty as president of the United States to faithfully take care of the laws and ensure election integrity. But, look, Sara, trying to overturn an election, that's not election integrity.

SIDNER: Correct. Since it has been proven time and again by courts and everyone else that the votes were what they were and Joe Biden won the 2020 election.

Marshall Cohen, thank you for all your great reporting throughout this. There's been a lot of things dug up. And thank you to the Detroit News for their exclusive today. I appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: And joining us now for more on all of this is Matt Lewis, senior columnist at The Daily Beast and CNN Political Commentator and former Communications Director for Ted Cruz Alice Stewart. It's good to see you both.

So, Alice, jumping off of everything that Marshall just laid out, what do you think when you hear all of this?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think of three things, Kate. One, Donald Trump does not like to lose. Two, when he does lose, he likes to deny that and try and overturn the numbers. And, three, win or lose for Donald Trump, I have full and complete confidence in our election process and our election officials across the country. And what we're seeing here is a perfect example of that.

Look, clearly, Donald Trump and Ronna McDaniel didn't like the outcome in Wayne County, and according to Ronna McDaniel, she felt as though there was reason to have an inquiry, but this is not how you do it. You don't get the president of the United States on the line with people at that level and try and intimidate them and pressure them to not signing off on them.

I have been deputy secretary of state. I have overseen elections at the state level. I know how it works. And I support the Michigan secretary of state, Jocelyn Benson, who has confidence in how they handle this. And, look, this just goes to show yet again that regardless of the outcome of these elections, we can look back at the people that are running these elections and certifying these elections, doing the right thing, and, fortunately, not being pressured by anyone, including the president of the United States, to try and change the outcome.

BOLDUAN: Matt, yes, it's the first time that anyone is hearing these details, but it's more of what everyone knows Donald Trump was doing after the election. And I'm kind of left -- just imagine what it was like, what it's like to be a local Republican getting this call.

MATT LEWIS, SENIOR COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST: I can't imagine it. So, I mean, obviously we've seen examples where you've had poll workers who were intimidated. This is a little different. I think this would be maybe not fear, but a sense of almost duty.

I mean, if you are a Republican canvasser who -- and the president of the United States calls you up, think of the immense temptation, even if you're not afraid of any sort of retribution, by the way, from a guy who promises retribution, just the temptation to want to please him, to want to say, yes, I mean, that's really -- the power differential there is unbelievable. And, look, it worked to a certain extent, right? They tried to change their vote.

So, I agree with Alice. I think there have been a lot of Republican officials around the country, especially in Georgia, who did rise to the occasion, who ultimately did the right thing. But I don't just think that's automatically going to happen, that the system will always hold, because when you have a president telling you to do something, you typically do it.

BOLDUAN: Alice, let's broaden this out now. It's new information like this and new reporting coming out that continues to put Donald Trump's Republican rivals in a sticky spot. Call them out or don't, no matter what. But no matter what, as Ron DeSantis has said in a new interview, it's Donald Trump again sucking the oxygen out of the primary and it's 24 days to Iowa.

I want to play what Nikki Haley is now facing in this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to support you. I also want to hear from you that you also think there's a danger here.

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wouldn't be running if I didn't think that he's not the right person at the right time. I have said multiple times I don't think it's good for the country for Donald Trump to become president again. I've made that very clear.

The problem is what I have faced, anti-Trumpers think I don't hate him enough. Pro-Trumpers think I don't love him enough. The reality is I just call it like I see it. It's not personal for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I am fascinated, Alice, by this interaction between Nikki Haley and a voter who says he wants to support her. He wants to see more, though. What do you think of how she responded and what it says about kind of her strategy?

STEWART: Look, let me just say this. From a standpoint of having worked on three presidential campaigns, winning three Iowa caucus, understanding what the people are --

BOLDUAN: Meaning, I've got credentials, yes. Keep going.

STEWART: No. I'm just saying that question is an outlier. Most people in Iowa are asking, what are you going to do to help me put food on the table? What are you going to do to keep things safe? What are you going to do to fix immigration? How are you going to turn the economy around? And when she gets a question like that, she obviously will address it.

But I've spoken with every of these campaigns that are out there. Most of the questions they're getting are about the economy and health care and jobs. And when they're asked about nitpicking every stupid thing that Donald Trump says or does or his denying the election results, I feel like they have done what they needed to do is push back on his statements and his actions, but trying to do so in a way that does not alienate his base.

And to this point, they have done that. But now, as we're two weeks out from the Iowa caucuses or a few weeks out, the gloves are off and they're becoming a little bit more forceful against Donald Trump. But, again, those aren't what voters in these early states are asking about writ large when they're at these town halls.

BOLDUAN: Matt, let me ask you, because -- let's take the Ron DeSantis approach and what he's -- to your know, Ron DeSantis will say that he wants to focus on those kitchen table issues. We've been hearing it from surrogates when they've been on the show. He's trying to differentiate himself by saying Trump is not a real conservative. He's not conservative enough on things like abortion.

Same time, I'm seeing commentary like op-eds in the New York Times making a pretty interesting case that the secret sauce of Trump is actually that he's like a secret moderate when you look at his policies versus his rhetoric. Please tell me what you think about this.

LEWIS: Well, look, I think it's an interesting thing that Ron DeSantis is doing, right? I agree, Donald Trump is not an ideologically pure conservative. I wouldn't trust him to necessarily implement conservative policy.

I don't think most voters care about that, though. I think that actually most of the voters are more comfortable with Donald Trump being moderate, for example, on the abortion issue.

So, I think DeSantis is running Ted Cruz's campaign. Now, why would he be doing that, though? Let's ask ourselves that. Ted Cruz lost, right? Yes, he did. But guess what Ted Cruz won. He won Iowa. So I think that everything Ron DeSantis is doing now is about one thing, winning Iowa. That's what he hopes to do. I think it's a failed strategy if he wants to be the nominee. But right now, he has to live to fight another day. This is all about winning Iowa. That's Cruz's play.

BOLDUAN: 24 days to pull it off.

LEWIS: I'm sorry, DeSantis' play.

BOLDUAN: I know what you're saying. They look exactly the same when you see them in policy. It's great to see you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

STEWART: Thanks, Kate.

LEWIS: Thank you.

SIDNER: All right, still ahead, two new reports this morning show inflation is eased thing and people are actually starting to feel better about the economy.

[10:10:03]

We'll break down the numbers for you next.

Plus, President Biden's campaign plan for 2024 show voters Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. We'll discuss their strategy for the New Year, coming up.

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SIDNER: Just in, well, the state of the economy, looking good in the neighborhood, like consumer sentiment is soaring, almost 14 percent in December, reversing all of the declines from the last four months. Those new numbers from the University of Michigan also show consumers' worries over inflation is fading.

Vanessa Yurkevich is looking at this.

[10:20:00]

I'm assuming the reason why they're worries about inflation is fading because inflation has gone down, correct?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: That's a very good analysis, very good analysis. But we always want to know how people are feeling, and this report essentially tells us. You are seeing a huge jump in consumer sentiment from November to December, December consumer sentiment, 69.7, up 13.7 percent from the month before.

And as you said, this has led because people are feeling better about inflation, those cooling numbers potentially cooling prices a little bit. And even expectations in this report, how people are feeling about the future of the economy, they're feeling much better about it, too. So, the outlook is also really good.

And that's important because so much can change, obviously, in such a short period of time. But we have really good indicators about what's going on with the economy, and especially from the Federal Reserve, who has projected rate cuts in 2024. That's encouraging news. And maybe people are taking that in a little bit.

SIDNER: And you're looking at the sort of Fed's favorite sort of inflation gauge, the price index. What's it telling us?

YURKEVICH: Yes. PCE, personal consumption expenditure, and potentially why we're seeing such good consumer sentiment numbers is because of a report like this.

So, we actually saw cooling in November, the first time we've seen that since April of 2020, when the pandemic began. And that annual rate, 2.6 percent, that's cooling from what the reading was the month before, we are in the twos. That is really good news. That is where the Fed wants us to be, in the twos.

We do have a ways to go, and the Federal Reserve has made it clear the fight against inflation is certainly not over yet. But we're moving in the right direction, and potentially the way Americans are feeling about that is catching up to all of this data.

SIDNER: I can tell you from personal experience, having lived in California a long time, the gas prices are so much better than they were. That's all anyone talks about. And when you feel like you're paying, and you are, less for gas, you're going to spend that money somewhere else.

YURKEVICH: Yes, exactly.

SIDNER: Usually me at Starbucks. But, anyway, whatever. Vanessa, thank you so much.

YURKEVICH: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, Donald Trump wants to delay another trial. This time, it's the E. Jean Carroll civil defamation trial. Could this case also end up before the Supreme Court now?

Plus, President Biden is making new moves against Russia, targeting financial institutions that support the country's military in order to hit Russia from another angle. Details on that ahead.

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[10:25:00]

SIDNER: This morning, we're getting some insight and new details about President Biden's campaign strategy heading into the New Year. It won't surprise you. The GOP hasn't picked a candidate yet, but Biden's team is setting its sights on Donald Trump just looking at the numbers, like everyone else is as the inevitable nominee for the Republicans. Part of the plan is to convince voters in key states that Trump is truly a threat to democracy.

CNN Political Analyst and White House Reporter for the Associated Press Seung Min Kim is joining us now.

As Biden heads into 2024, it is clear that it's going to take two attacks. One is reproductive health and the attack and assault, as they call it on that, and the other is really about the democracy in this country. How do you see them tackling this? Because these are two things that I think polling-wise he's doing pretty well in, correct?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, they certainly are in terms of President Biden and his team. And I think you can actually lump those two issues together in the overall concept of freedom, which is kind of a theme if you recall back to April when President Biden formally launched his re-election campaign and did so with an ad.

That idea of freedom, whether it's freedom just in a democracy in the classic sense, or freedom such as reproductive freedom, freedom to vote, that's been the overarching theme of his campaign. And that's what you're going to be hearing hammering. That's what you're going to hear Democrats hammer for months up until November because they do feel that's a contrast that works and it resonates with a broad swath of voters.

SIDNER: Okay. So, I'm going to move on to something else and what you think about this polling that's come out. We've talked a lot and there's new information coming out of Gaza right now. There's information coming out of Israel, as they're trying to get some of those hostages back. But the humanitarian crisis there has really hit some Democrats very hard and made them think about even being part of the Biden administration, as well as the voters have been very loud and clear, for example, in a place like Michigan, where you have the highest population or second highest population of Arab-Americans who are looking at this and could potentially vote.

And I just want to throw up this poll real quick. Among voters under 30, 72 percent were shown to disapprove of how Biden was handling the war. And I'm curious if you think that's going to play any role in these swing states, like Michigan, as we go further, even though obviously we're just under a year out from the election.

KIM: Well, certainly, when you're talking about these swing states, such as Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, every vote really is going to matter, especially when the battleground, where those really contested states aren't that big.

[10:30:00]

You're looking at the blue wall. Certainly, Biden's campaign is looking to retain Georgia, Arizona. They have their eyes set on North Carolina. They're carefully watching Nevada.