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Biden's Top Economist Bets On "Soft Landing," Avoiding Recession; DeSantis' Record On Smokable Medical Marijuana In Florida Raises Questions About His Promise To "Drain The Swamp" In The State; Rap Legend Chuck D On How Hip-Hop Changed The World. Aired 11:30a-12p ET
Aired December 25, 2023 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00]
SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: Quarter, the strongest in nearly two years. And in November, inflation cooled to 2.6 percent. Meaning prices fell on a month-to-month basis for the first time since April of -- three years ago, 2020.
Now, despite this news though, an increasing pay and rising stock prices, the White House has really struggled to sell the president's economic message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Bill increased the middle class, the poor have a shot and the wealthy still do very well. The middle class does well, and we all do well. That's what we call Bidenomics.
By the way, so far, we've created 14 million new jobs. More jobs in three years than any president has created in four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Joining me now CNN global economic analyst and associate editor of the Financial Times, Rana Foroohar. Thank you so much for being here.
I began with a laugh because finally, we're saying something nice about the economy. We have all waited for that. But I did want to ask you because this doesn't seem to be resonating so much the idea of Bidenomics, which I hear Biden doesn't really like the name. But why isn't the message resonating when you're seeing these numbers and attitudes getting better about the economy?
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Well, it's a great question, Sara. And you know, the truth of the matter is, the data's been great, right? I mean, we've had a few quarters now of strong job market, inflation starting to come down finally.
I mean, this is the Goldilocks economy, right? Not too hot, not too cold, that we've all wanted. And so, it is really surprising in some ways that consumers and voters aren't picking up on this yet. Few reasons for that. One, sentiment. Consumer sentiment. Voter sentiment. It tends to be a trailing indicator. So, it takes a little while -- it takes a few quarters of people really feeling hey, inflation is coming down, you know that meal out, paying my electric bill. These are not more expensive. Maybe they're going to get less expensive. Takes a little time for that to resonate.
You also mentioned that the president himself isn't crazy about the word Bidenomics. You know, it's funny, some people, even within the Democratic Party were a little concerned about pegging these economic policies to one president. You know, it's a little bit of a -- well, not a little bit. It's a lot of a partisan environment right now, in terms of politics in the U.S. so people here Bidenomics. If you're not inclined to like the president, maybe you don't want to hear more about those policies.
And then there's a final reason I would say. This White House is trying to orchestrate a change that's not about one quarter, it's not about one year. I mean, it's about years, even decades of moving from an economy that it sits -- was based essentially on asset prices going up, on stocks going up, on housing prices going up, and people feeling richer in a financial sense, if in fact, they own those assets, to one in which it's work, not wealth, right?
Its income going up. It's a sense that there's a bottom-up middle-out sort of approach. That takes time. And you know, we're living in a tic-tac environment here. You know, it's hard to get people to pay attention for more than a few minutes.
SIDNER: Yes, that's a really good -- that's a good point. But if you notice, if the prices are higher at the grocery store or the prices are higher at the gas station, those have come down a bit.
FOROOHAR: Yes.
SIDNER: So, we'll see sort of where sentiment goes. I do want to get your read, though, on what may be some potential problems for the economy going forward.
FOROOHAR: Yes. Well, so I've been a little bit more bearish, I think, than some folks that look at the markets. Stock markets have been going nuts because the Fed has said, hey, we're going to see three rate cuts in the coming year, you know. We're -- we think that we're really going to have a soft landing, and all it's going to be well.
But there's a lot going on in the global picture. If you step back, the pandemic changed everything, right? I mean, we're still feeling the impact of this.
And one of the impacts is that different regions, different industries aren't moving in sync anymore, you know. We came through a period where it was 40 or 50 years of everything rising or falling together. And that was quite predictable. Now, things -- you know, Europe, China, the U.S., things are going in different directions. And that means the possibility of more risk. The other thing I would point out is even though interest rates are falling, some people are locked into higher rates. Some people have lower rates for example, on a home mortgage. Like, I'm locked into a 2.875 rate.
Even though rates now are much higher, my rate will eventually reset. So, there's going to be years of ups and downs and bumps as these changes that we've gone through in the last few years play out. And so, I just think that this recovery cycle is going to be different than the ones that we've seen before.
And I would caution against getting too much ahead of things you know. Buckle in, keep -- you know, keep your savings, don't take on too much debt, and you know, look forward to hopefully what will -- what will be a better year ahead.
SIDNER: Rana, a 2.8 percent interest rate for a home? You go.
FOROOHAR: Oh, yes.
SIDNER: Like, that is the best Christmas present anybody could have.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: New Year's, Hanukkah, Valentine's Day, pick a --
SIDNER: New Year's, Hanukkah, it doesn't matter. Pick a day.
BOLDUAN: I mean, yes.
FOROOHAR: I'm not --
SIDNER: We want to thank you.
FOROOHAR: I'm a -- (INAUDIBLE) your Kate. You know that.
[11:35:09]
SIDNER: We've got two Hoosiers here. And I'm going to give you the love. I mean you're wearing the red.
BOLDUAN: That's why I'm wearing the red.
SIDNER: You're welcome.
BOLDUAN: That's why I love her, and I love --
SIDNER: You're welcome, Indiana. Thank you, Rana.
BOLDUAN: Honorary Hoosier.
FOROOHAR: Oh, yes.
BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, a CNN investigation. Raising new questions about Ron DeSantis's track record in promising to "drain the swamp."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SIDNER: Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis is criticizing Donald Trump for failing to drain the swamp in Washington while he was in the White House. But DeSantis made a similar pledge in his campaign for Florida Governor. Now, the CNN investigation is raising questions about his record on special interest and campaign donors. As Randi Kaye reports, it has to do with legalizing smokeable medical marijuana in Florida.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Thank you. God bless.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): After Ron DeSantis was elected governor of Florida in 2018, the very first bill he signed into law legalized smokeable medical marijuana in Florida.
[11:40:04]
DESANTIS: Whether they have to smoke it or not, who am I to judge that? I want people to be able to have their suffering relieved.
KAYE (voiceover): A CNN investigation reveals how DeSantis was courted by key figures in the medical marijuana industry who donated to his campaign. He got a political boost, and they got a financial one. Yet, DeSantis is still boasting that he drained the swamp in Florida.
DESANTIS: We've drained the swamp in here.
KAYE (voiceover): That all sounds good, but did he really drain the swamp? Turns out, Trulieve, one of the leading medical marijuana companies in the U.S. today contributed $50,000 to the Florida GOP, which helped pay for DeSantis his campaign ads. Trulieve then boasted of record profits just months after DeSantis signed that law. Telling investors that patient growth was driven primarily by the introduction of smokeable flowers, which by then constituted half of its sales in Florida.
Florida hand surgeon turned marijuana entrepreneur Jason Pirozzolo was among those who co-hosted fundraisers for DeSantis. This one, in his posh Lakeside home near Orlando, just weeks before Election Day in 2018. CNN obtained this exclusive video.
That's Pirozzolo arriving for the fundraiser with Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, who as a state lawmaker in 2014, introduced legislation that became Florida's first marijuana law. Pirozzolo's attorney says he never discussed marijuana legislation with DeSantis.
Also at the party, then-Florida State Representative Halsey Beshears. His family's tree farm later joined with other nurseries to become Trulieve, that top medical marijuana producer which donated to DeSantis's campaign. All three of them have ties to Florida's billion- dollar marijuana industry.
DESANTIS: It's an honor to be here. I thank you guys for your support.
KAYE (voiceover): All of them, a united force in raising money for DeSantis.
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): One of the things that really impressed me about Ron is that he pushes against the grain.
KAYE (voiceover): DeSantis would also soon play a key role in Florida's so-called green rush, which gave rise to a billion-dollar industry.
LEV PARNAS, FORMER REPUBLICAN FUNDRAISER: The reason why Ron DeSantis became governor of Florida is because of the little plant called cannabis.
KAYE (voiceover): That's Lev Parnas, a one-time associate of Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump. In May of 2018 when Ron DeSantis's campaign for governor was in trouble, Parnas says DeSantis sought him out.
KAYE: You met him at the Trump Hotel in Washington, D.C.
PARNAS: I met him at the Trump Hotel. Ron approached me. Introduced himself to me. Told me that he's running for the governor of Florida.
KAYE: Were you traveling in Trump circles at that time, then?
PARNAS: Oh, very much so.
KAYE (voiceover): If his name sounds familiar to you, that may be because Lev Parnas played a role in the impeachment of Trump. He coordinated with Giuliani to try and dig up dirt on Joe Biden and Ukraine. Parnas was also convicted of trying to illegally secure recreational marijuana licenses in other states and sentenced to 20 months in prison last year.
During our interview at his Florida home, Parnas told us DeSantis came to him seeking help for his struggling gubernatorial campaign.
KAYE: Did DeSantis make it clear to you that he needed Trump's endorsement?
PARNAS: Absolutely. That's how he approached me. He said he needed to get Trump's endorsement.
KAYE (voiceover): When he met DeSantis, Parnas was looking to get into the lucrative marijuana industry in Florida. DeSantis had previously taken a stand against marijuana. As a U.S. Congressman, he voted against making cannabis more accessible to veterans.
PARNAS: I realized that he was not pro-cannabis. With all due respect, I said I -- how can I support you to be the governor of Florida where, you know, would be going against things that I personally believe in?
KAYE (voiceover): After that, Parnas says DeSantis had a change of heart.
PARNAS: He would be willing to look at cannabis in a different light. And I was like, whoa. That was -- that was a quick shift. KAYE (voiceover): Parnas says DeSantis told him he wouldn't stand in the way of expanding the legalization of marijuana in Florida. At this point, smoking medical marijuana was illegal, and so was all recreational pot.
KAYE: Did DeSantis ever tell you specifically if you can get Trump to endorse me, then I will change my mind about legalized medical marijuana here?
PARNAS: You know, I don't recall us having an exact conversation like a quid pro quo type of a situation. But the whole conversation was a quid pro quo.
KAYE (voiceover): Parnas says he went to Rudy Giuliani and convinced him to get Trump to endorse DeSantis which Trump did in June 2018, tweeting that he will be a great governor. Parnas also donated $50,000 to DeSantis and attended rallies with him. After his victory speech on election night in 2018, one of the people DeSantis hugged was Lev Parnas.
PARNAS: He hugs. And congratulations -- I congratulated him, and he thanked me. He says we did it.
KAYE: Under DeSantis, medical marijuana has become an estimated $1.8 billion industry in Florida. On his first day as governor, there were fewer than one hundred dispensaries in the state. Now, there are nearly 600. Serving more than 800,000 Floridians.
[11:45:05]
KAYE (voiceover): As for Lev Parnas, he says he didn't benefit from that growth. CNN was unable to independently verify Parnas's account regarding Trump's endorsement. DeSantis returned Parnas's $50,000 contribution and declined to answer questions about their interactions, accusing CNN of reporting opposition narratives about his campaign.
Neither the Trump campaign nor Giuliani would comment either. Parnas admits others may also have had a hand in securing Trump's endorsement for DeSantis but insists he played a key role.
KAYE: Would you have connected Trump and DeSantis if DeSantis hadn't changed his mind on marijuana?
PARNAS: No, never.
KAYE (voiceover): Randi Kaye, CNN, Boca Raton, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: Randi Kaye, thank you so much for that.
Coming up for us. Chuck D needs no introduction. As the lead voice of Public Enemy, he is a hip-hop legend. He is now using his voice in a different way. Chuck D joins CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:07]
SIDNER: This year, hip hop got its A.A.R.P. card. It really did. The worldwide culture-changing juggernaut of a music genre turned 50 this year. It's pioneers shine the light on a world filled with hardships, brutality, misogyny, poverty, and yes, even love. Now, some of the OGs are turning their attention to a really serious matter for too marry -- many Americans. Hospital bills, which is one of the most common ways Americans go bankrupt.
I sat down with hip-hop legend Chuck D, who rose up as the frontman of Public Enemy, rapping bangers like Fight The Power. And now, 50 years in, his new fight is giving power to the patients.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIDNER: We are here with the man, the legend, hip-hop pioneer, Chuck D. Thank you for showing up. Thank you for being here today.
CHUCK D, RAPPER: Thank you, Sara.
SIDNER: We're at what, 50 years of hip hop.
CHUCK D: Right.
SIDNER: Hip hop has an A.A.R.P. card. Isn't that something?
CHUCK D: A.A.R.A.P.
SIDNER: Oh, A.A.R.A.P.?
CHUCK D: Yes. well, there you go.
SIDNER: See, that's why you do what you do and why I do what I do.
CHUCK D: Right.
SIDNER: What kind of impact do you see that hip-hop has had on particularly American culture, although it's gone out to the world?
CHUCK D: Well, number one, it started out being a voice of the voiceless, the voice of the underserved. It started out as a voice that came out of the community that was just left to -- left for dead and left for drive. You want to say the Bronx was the center point.
The Bronx is Mecca -- you know, the Bronx is ground zero. So, from that, out of the ashes rose this thing called hip--hop, which is a cultural -- pretty much like a cultural understanding around the world like 45 years later.
SIDNER: The message that has been -- being sent out. What is the message that you want hip-hop to impart to the rest of the country? Because there are all kinds of different artists and all kinds of different things. You help found Public Enemy. And there was a very clear message. It was often to the government about what was happening to black folks in this country.
CHUCK D: We wasn't covered by media as far as artists. Black artists weren't even covered by major media when we started out R&B, and that's Reagan and Bush. So, out of this, the voices, you know, spoke loudly.
Yes, we wanted to do the party thing. But every party got to have security by the door. And a narrative of what you wanted to do is leave the party better than how you came in.
So, what it did in society was basically be a voice that understood, you got to be accountable, and also responsible to the people that came from as well. And tell the world like, listen, we're part of the human family, respect us for that, too. So, which leads us to even talk about hip-hop 50, or even power to the patients, you know, the program I'm involved with.
SIDNER: Yes.
CHUCK D: Which talks about the balancing of being able to be having some kind of transparency and the cost of health care. Since you got like, 1/3 of American citizens if you want to just say in this country, you know, we're debt-ridden based on health, and the bank -- we're bankrupt because of health.
And when you talk about black folk and brown folk, and people of color, and just as they say, poor folk in the United States of America, health is almost like that haunted house. It's like that scary thing, where half of the people are looking over their shoulders at the health costs monster.
So, being involved with that, and there was look like naysayers, like, why are you going to get a bunch of rappers? Because why should our voices just be used for, like, economic frivolous things, like, go out and get this big cargo. All the stereotypical things --
SIDNER: All changed --
CHUCK D: And then being covered on the news --
SIDNER: Yes.
CHUCK D: Always for the worse.
SIDNER: Yes.
CHUCK D: So, you know, myself being invited people like Fat Joe, Method Man, you know, and the French Montana's of the world or college, you know, OK, you're going to hear these voices all the time on the woodwork. Now, let's hear something that's really relevant. And that's talking about the cost of health care, how patients could basically come out of this with overstanding that the system is fair for them to go about, you know, taking care of their health.
SIDNER: Yes.
CHUCK D: You know, people from our community. They're afraid of hospitals.
SIDNER: Of course.
CHUCK D: Rightfully so because you're not talking about doctors and nurses and their concerns. You're talking about the business of medical care in the United States.
SIDNER: It bankrupts people.
CHUCK D: Yes.
SIDNER: I mean, this one of the number one thing that bankrupts Americans --
CHUCK D: Yes.
SIDNER: -- is those bills that come after you've been sick and you go into hospital, and you had no idea how much that you were supposed to pay. You get that afterwards.
CHUCK D: So, stress is real, right?
SIDNER: Yes.
CHUCK D: And as we go into the future, you're finding out that stress is that seed factor that causes a lot of things that come tumbling down.
SIDNER: It's a killer.
CHUCK D: So -- it's the killer.
SIDNER: Yes.
CHUCK D: So -- I mean, just kind of living as a person of color in this country, your stress-ridden. Out of the music and out of the culture, these screams, and hollering about how do we alleviate the conditions around. How do we make it better? How do you understand that we have to make it better?
[11:55:16]
So, I was proud to be part of that program and part of that program. So, when I was asked, I said, yes. This is something I'm dealing with, just in our families.
Another thing is whenever you look at hip-hop 50, which is why I was saying that hip-hop 49 was important. Hop-hop 51 is important.
SIDNER: Yes. CHUCK D: But you know we're connected. So even if they say, oh, man, that person, yes, I know you. I know you're doing well. But we're connected to the next personnel family that might have not. So, you know, that's that's real.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: Chucked D, why are -- why isn't on me? We should be talking together. That was a really cool conversation.
SIDNER: Yes, it's -- he's really taking up this idea that so many people are afraid of. And that is hospital bills and doctor's bills. And it's amazing to see rappers who back in the day, were just like pounding out these great hits to turn around and say listen, I'm 50 now. And there are other problems that need to be pounded on. And they're doing it. They're doing the work.
BOLDUAN: Using his voice and his stature --
SIDNER: Yes.
BOLDUAN: And his awesomeness just in this way --
SIDNER: Yes.
BOLDUAN: Is just like a really cool new chapter.
SIDNER: That's right.
BOLDUAN: That's really great. Coming up still for us. A white Christmas is beautiful. But it's snow going to be getting in the way of all the holiday travel. Ahead, we have the forecast for you.
And before we take a quick break, we want to share some holiday greetings from U.S. service members serving abroad this Christmas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADISON CHRIS, U.S. ARMY: Hey, what's going on, guys? I'm Madison Chris (PH). Just want to wish my family a Merry Christmas. My wife out in Norfolk, Virginia, and my mom is out in Medford, Oregon. Love you guys.
KOBE CASHEW, U.S. ARMY: Kobe Cashew (PH) aboard USS Bataan. I like to give a shout-out to my mom, dad, brother, and my girlfriend Hannah back in Pittsboro, North Carolina. Merry Christmas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
