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Appeals Court to Hear Trump Immunity Arguments; Benjamin Netanyahu Visits Troops in Gaza; Alexey Navalny Moved to Siberian Prison. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 25, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:01:48]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Merry Christmas to you. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington.

It is a new, bleak prison for Alexey Navalny. Supporters of the opposition leader say he has been found, but his new home may be the worst yet. It's a penal colony known as Polar Wolf.

Canceled Christmas, no public celebration of the holiday in Bethlehem, as the horrific death toll mounts, with just two -- with 250 killed in just the last 24 hours alone. Israel's prime minister now vowing to intensify the war.

And push for immunity. Former President Donald Trump urging an appeal court to throw out one case against him. Will they accept his argument?

We're following these major developing stories and many more. It's all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

Vladimir Putin's most famous critic has been found in one of Russia's most remote prisons. Alexey Navalny is -- quote -- "doing well," despite being at a penal colony in Siberia known as Polar Wolf. That's according to his legal team's spokesman. That prison is nearly 2,000 miles from where Navalny was held before.

The 47-year-old opposition leader had been missing since December 11, and his team said he'd never been -- quote -- "hidden" for so long before. Navalny missed two scheduled court appearances last week. His yearslong protest of Putin was the subject of a CNN film and HBO Max documentary that won an Oscar this year.

CNN's Nada Bashir is covering the latest for us from London.

Nada, do we know why Navalny was moved in the first place?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jessica, there still isn't very much clarity on why exactly he was moved.

We are still getting more details as to the conditions he is facing and how Navalny was moved from that penal colony some 150 miles east of Moscow now to where he has been located, in the Northwestern Siberia region, as you mentioned, in that colony known as the Polar Wolf penal colony.

Now, there has been widespread concern over Navalny's safety and security over the last two weeks since his legal team and other associates lost contact entirely with the Kremlin critic. We have now had confirmation from his spokesperson that his lawyer was able to meet with him today to confirm his location at this penal colony.

We have seen a statement now from the director of Navalny's anti- corruption foundation, giving some details around the penal colony that he is currently being held in, just a few short hours ago saying Navalny is in colony IK-3 in Kharp called Polar Wolf, one of the northernmost and most remote colonies.

The conditions there are harsh, with a special regime in the permafrost zone. It is very difficult to get there. And there are no letter delivery systems. Now, of course, while it has come as a relief to have the confirmation of Navalny's location after two weeks of his whereabouts being unknown, there is still deep-seated concern over the conditions he may face at this penal colony.

Navalny was, of course, sentenced back in August of this year to 19 years in prison over extremism-related charges. These are charges, of course, that he has repeatedly denied. He had already been serving 11.5 years for other charges that he had been accused of, including fraud and corruption.

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These are charges and allegations that his legal team say have been put against him with political motivation, an attempt, they say, to stifle Navalny's criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Navalny, of course, a well-known prominent figure in critiquing both Putin and the Kremlin.

He has organized anti-government demonstrations in the streets of Moscow. He has, of course, been quite vocal on his blog and social media in outlining alleged corruption within the Kremlin. He has been perhaps the most prominent and most challenging threat to Vladimir Putin's legitimacy as leader of Russia.

This has been a huge, of course, focus for many of his team, his whereabouts. Now, the focus will continue to be ensuring that he is safe, but also, of course, they continue to demand that he is released.

DEAN: All right, Nada Bashir for us with the latest from London that, thanks so much for that reporting.

And a warning for you now, some disturbing video we're going to show you in the latest update of the Israel-Hamas war. These are some of the victims after a deadly 24 hours in Central Gaza. The Hamas-run Health Ministry says at least 250 people were killed from Israeli strikes; 70 of the victims were at the Al-Maghazi refugee camp Sunday.

Israel Defense Forces told CNN -- quote -- "In response to Hamas' barbaric attacks, the IDF is operating to dismantle Hamas military and administrative capabilities."

Also today, Israelis' -- Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was in Gaza, his second trip to the battlefield, vowing to continue the -- quote -- "long fight" a day after promising to intensify the campaign against Hamas. The IDF says, since Friday, at least 15 of its soldiers have been killed in Gaza.

CNN senior international correspondent Will Ripley is in Tel Aviv.

Will, tell us more about what the prime minister said to troops today during that visit to Gaza.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's certainly there to send them encouragement, to say that their sacrifice -- this was one of the deadliest weekends in this 80-day war for the Israeli military, just like it was one of the deadliest 24- hour periods in Gaza since this war began back on October 7.

Eighty days, and you have more than 20,600 people who have been killed on the Palestinian side, along with more than 53,000 injuries. And even though Israel's death toll is much lower, they do say that they are adhering, Jessica, to international law, that they are not indiscriminately targeting civilians, but they're going after specific military targets based on intelligence.

They say their targeting changes as different intelligence comes in. And they say the fact that Hamas is choosing to position itself in areas densely packed with civilians who are sheltering, civilians who are displaced, that makes Hamas just as culpable for this skyrocketing death toll, this is the Israeli argument, as it does Israel itself.

So, despite that we had this U.N. resolution last week that, of course, was quite watered down from the original draft that the United States vetoed, and then there were several delays as they were rewriting it, Israel says they're not going to stop until they obtain their objective, which is to eliminate the leadership of Hamas.

And they have not been able to do that yet. Netanyahu in Northern Gaza, where they have essentially obtained operational control, meeting with the troops and saying that this war will continue. President Biden in a phone call with the prime minister of Israel encouraging a more -- slower, more focused, streamlined technique, not such a large-scale casualty type of situation.

President Biden, speaking with Democratic donors, did, on one instance, use the word indiscriminate bombing, which would be a violation of international law. But then the Israelis really said that that one reference from the U.S. president is not reflective of their reality on the ground.

And so the fighting absolutely continues, and you have a Christmas Day where we have now just had some of the deadliest incidents since this war began 80 days ago.

DEAN: And, Will, before we let you go, the IDF has also revealed these new details about the Hamas tunnel network that they have been trying to destroy and penetrate there. What can you tell us about that?

RIPLEY: So this is a network of tunnels underneath Gaza.

Hamas has publicly stated in the past that they have built hundreds of miles of tunnels under Gaza, although the exact number of the tunnels is unknown and impossible to independently verify. But what Israel says they discovered and uncovered is a very elaborate tunnel system, very high-tech, with capability to house weapons facilities, bunkers, command headquarters, even living quarters, apartments for the Hamas senior leadership.

And they also say that they recovered the bodies of five Israeli hostages, three of them soldiers, two of them civilians. And once those five bodies were recovered and repatriated back here to Israel, that underground tunnel complex that was housing the Hamas leadership and a lot of the leadership operations was destroyed.

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Of course, the leadership has since moved on to another location, Jessica, Israel trying to track them down. But this is a fight that experts say is likely to continue for many, many months to come, because Hamas is actually getting more resources funneled in from their supporters, amongst whom they have actually gained credibility since October 7, for keeping this fight going.

And so they're going to get more money, they're going to get more weapons, and Israel says they're going to have to keep fighting.

DEAN: Will Ripley for us tonight in Tel Aviv.

Thanks so much for that reporting, Will. We appreciate it.

And joining us now to talk a little bit more about this is retired Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt.

Thanks so much for being here on this Christmas Day. We really do appreciate it.

I want to start first with some of Will's reporting there. We know that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that Israeli forces are intensifying -- that's his word -- operations inside the Gaza Strip.

What do you think an intensification looks like at this point?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), FORMER U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR PLANS AND STRATEGY: Well, I think it means probably putting more ground troops in to finish up the fight inside of Gaza, seeing more ground troops to finish the fight in Khan Yunis.

I think it also means that they may step up the amount of air attacks that are going into both those cities, because I think that they recognize that international criticism cannot continue at this level. So, the sooner they mop this up, sooner they clean this up, the better. And, candidly, that saves lives by speeding it up, simply because you won't be finding as many days when you hear casually tolls of 250- plus.

DEAN: And his statement, Benjamin Netanyahu's statement, is coming after Secretary of State Antony Blinken said last week that this conflict -- quote -- "needs to move to a lower-intensity phase," so obviously the opposite there.

You mentioned international support and outside support for Israel. What do you anticipate the U.S. support for Israel is going to look like as we continue moving forward?

KIMMITT: Well, look, these types of operations consume a significant amount of ammunition, a significant amount of bombs, significant amount of artillery rounds.

I think we will continue to provide those assets, which, oh, by the way, we are also and need to continue to provide to Ukraine. I certainly hope that part of those ammunition packages include precision-guided weapons, so that the Israelis can be more precise in their attacks.

DEAN: And let's talk more about the tunnels that Will also kind of walked us through there in his reporting before we came to you.

They're -- the IDF has this new disclosure about what the tunnel network looks like in Gaza, kind of where they have been able to go, and they also reported the bodies that they found of the five Israeli hostages that had been recovered.

What are you taking away from this information about these tunnels and what the IDF is finding there?

KIMMITT: Well, what it indicates to me is that, for many, many years, money, that has been provided by the United Nations has been siphoned off to buy the concrete, to buy the sand, to buy the material that is necessary to build these 300 miles of tunnels that had no other purpose than to fight wars.

So I think it's not only a criticism of the barbarity of Hamas, but it's an implicit criticism of the U.N. accounting for the money that they have been providing over the years.

DEAN: Because you're saying that you -- that that has -- that's where some of it has gone.

KIMMITT: I don't know how else these tunnels could have appeared without the funding necessary, and there's no other real source of funding inside of Gaza except the money provided by the U.N. and some money that's been provided by Qatar.

DEAN: And just quickly, lastly, before I let you go, they talked about the five bodies of the hostages that were found there. We're now closing in on three months in this conflict, and there are still dozens, over 100 hostages that remain in Gaza. Where do you see this going? Does that rely solely on a diplomatic

solution, or is there any sort of military intervention that you see coming down the road at all?

KIMMITT: I would be very surprised if even the highest-end military soldiers inside the special operations community of Israel would be capable of bringing back even a percentage of the hostages.

So it will depend on diplomacy. But, nonetheless, one of the messages that Prime Minister Netanyahu gave to his troops on the ground is, keep fighting. The soldiers need to focus on fighting, because they can't depend on diplomacy to fix this. And so they're going to keep fighting until this war is over. That seems to be certain.

DEAN: All right, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, thanks so much again. We appreciate it. And merry Christmas to you.

KIMMITT: And you as well.

DEAN: Still ahead today: former President Donald Trump asking an appeals court to throw out the federal election interference case against him, claiming his actions were all part of his presidential duties. But will his immunity claim work?

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Plus, right now, a manhunt under way after a man was killed and a woman wounded at a mall shooting in Central Florida. A suspect has now been identified on that.

And we will have more for you on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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DEAN: Former President Donald Trump is now asking a federal appeals court to grant him immunity from being prosecuted for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Over the weekend, his lawyers filed a motion asking the court to toss special counsel Jack Smith's election interference case, arguing Trump cannot be held accountable for things he did while in office.

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CNN's Katelyn Polantz is joining us now.

And, Katelyn, what can you tell us about the new filing and then also where things stand with this particular case right now?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Jessica, Donald Trump lost this attempt he had made to toss the charges against him in federal court in Washington related to the 2020 election whenever the question was before the trial judge.

And so now everybody's getting their legal arguments on paper for an appeals court, who is going to consider whether there is immunity around the presidency, whether Donald Trump can be tried for his alleged crimes after the 2020 election.

So, what his lawyers argued in their filing over the weekend is that Trump should not be prosecuted for things that he was doing while he was president. And what he says is that what was happening after the election, as he was spreading disinformation and wanting to block the transfer of power, that was all part of his official duties as president questioning the election.

Now, the special counsel's office has pushed back very strongly on that, and courts have found that what was happening after the 2020 election was campaigning, electioneering, not something that's part of the presidency. But this question still has to be answered by the appeals court.

And Trump's team, they also are putting in some of their typical language that speaks to the politics of the moment as well. They're saying it's a plague on the nation to have a former president being accused of crimes like this and that it's dangerous for the country for Donald Trump to be going to trial.

That trial is set for the beginning of March, but it depends on how fast the appeals court works here and also if the Supreme Court gets involved later down the line.

DEAN: Right. Those are the key things, it seems, to really watch as we see the timeline play out.

All right, Katelyn Polantz for us, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

And joining us now to talk more about all of this is CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen. He served as House Judiciary special counsel in Trump's first impeachment trial.

Norm, thanks so much for being with us today.

Let's just talk first about what you make of Trump's attorneys arguing he has absolute immunity. That's been something across all of his legal problems,it seems, that he continues to keep trying to make that case.

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a very tough argument in American law to say that a president is absolutely immune.

There's no legal authority for it. And Judge Chutkan, the trial court judge, threw it out. Looking at the prior history of the panel of the Court of Appeals, the D.C. Circuit that's about to hear this, on an extraordinarily fast timeline -- it'll be fully briefed and then we will have argument on January 9 -- that court is likely to throw it out as well.

And I think the Supreme Court will look askance at the argument that there's absolute immunity. But Donald Trump's focus is not just on succeeding. It's on burning as much time on the calendar as possible.

DEAN: Right, because let's just remind everyone that all of these cases, this one in particular, was scheduled to come up first in this year, where we're going to have an election, where he is running for president. So it's this incredibly unprecedented kind of situation.

So, is -- and we have seen him time and time again try to just delay, delay, delay, delay. Do you think he will be successful in doing that, as you kind of follow the parallel track with the primary calendar that's going to kick off January 15 in Iowa?

EISEN: Well, the odds are the likelihood is that Donald Trump won't be successful, although we won't know for sure until the Court of Appeals decides and then it goes up to the Supreme Court.

Probably, this March 4 trial date for the federal election overturn case brought by Jack Smith is going to slip. And if you had to guess, you would say 60 to 90 days of slippage. Again, no one knows for sure. But that case most likely will go to trial in 2024.

The effect of that case slipping means there are other cases that might go first. And that starts with New York DA Alvin Bragg's 2016 election interference case, which is currently set for trial on March 25. And if the federal case slips for 2020 alleged election interference, then the state case will move in New York for 2016 election interference.

And there's two more criminal cases beyond that. So I don't think Donald Trump is avoiding criminal juries in 2024.

DEAN: Right. It's just a question of exactly when.

Back to this particular case with Jack Smith, Trump's lawyers have been claiming that he can't be prosecuted for election interference because he was never convicted by the U.S. Senate, which obviously did not impeach him in that -- or in that impeachment trial.

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What do you make of that argument?

EISEN: That's a silly argument.

Donald Trump has two arguments here. One is that a president is absolutely immune for any official acts. That's wrong. But there's an argument to be had there. The claim that the Constitution when it says that you can be prosecuted if you're a president after an impeachment means that you have to be convicted in the impeachment trial before you can be prosecuted,that's turning the language of the Constitution upside down.

I handled the first impeachment. That's not what it says. That impeachment-first argument is silly. It's frivolous. It's wrong. And that's not going to slow anybody down.

DEAN: All right, well, more to come in 2024.

Norm, I think you will be very busy. We will see you a lot here on CNN.

(LAUGHTER) DEAN: Thanks so much for being with us. I like your Nutcracker decor in the background there. Very festive. It's good to see you.

(LAUGHTER)

EISEN: Special for today. Thanks very much.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: Thanks.

When we come back: Thousands of migrants are making their way from Southern Mexico to the U.S. border in the largest migrant caravan that we have seen in over a year. America's top diplomat will be in Mexico this week to try to address this unprecedented surge. And we're going to have a live report from the border for you next.

Also, a heartwarming story on this Christmas Day. A stray dog that survived in the wild after going missing for nearly seven years has now been rescued. We will have more on Rose's incredible journey -- when we come back.

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