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Trump Remains on Michigan Ballot; Frustration Erupts over Migrant Surge; U.S. Navy Intercepts Missiles from Yemen; Ben Hodges is Interviewed about the Middle East; Trump Shares Word Cloud. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired December 27, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:37]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Biden is about to leave the White House, just as his secretary of state is on a mission in Mexico to try to find some agreement to ease the crush of migrants at the U.S. southern border. What's their plan now?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Power? Revenge? Dictatorship? Three words front and center on a word cloud as voters describe Donald Trump's political goals. So, why did Trump decide to post this himself?

BOLDUAN: And CNN investigates a cryptocurrency scam that is cheating Americans out of billions of dollars.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a living hell day in and day out.

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BOLDUAN: I'm Kate Bolduan, with Sara Sidner. John Berman is on the night shift today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: We begin with breaking news this hour. A new court move that impacts the 2024 election. A state supreme court in Michigan has just rejected an effort to remove Donald Trump from that state's primary ballot.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz has all the details coming in early today.

Katelyn, this ruling comes eight days after Colorado's supreme court ruled that Trump should be removed from the ballot. Tell us about what the supreme court in Michigan is saying now.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, every state is following their own rules and their own processes for how to have candidates on the ballots. And this is why we're seeing something so different in Michigan today. The highest court in Michigan, seven justices, determining they're not going to get involved. The lower courts in Michigan said that -- they acknowledged that there were challenges to Trump being on the primary ballot there and the lower court said, we also are not getting involved. This is not something for us to determine. And they weren't weighing in on the general election either at that time.

And so now this case goes to the Michigan supreme court. They looked at it and they said, yes, we're not going to do anything here either.

But one of the justices in Michigan did write today in this ruling that Michigan is very different from Colorado. The laws are different around who qualifies for their primary ballots there. And that is one of the reasons why that state is ending up with a different situation about determining whether Donald Trump can be on the ballot because of the constitutional ban on insurrectionists running for office. In Colorado there was a limitation on who can be on the primary ballot. You have to qualify for it. In Michigan it's different than that.

And so now we have Michigan's highest court saying, we are not persuaded. The questions presented should be reviewed by this court related to the primary election in Michigan and whether Trump qualifies and can be voted for in that election.

Still remains to be seen what happens in the general if he does win the primary votes across the nation for the Republican nomination. And also a big question remains of what the Supreme Court will do whenever he very likely goes to them and asks for some clarity on these laws.

BOLDUAN: Is this -- Katelyn, is this the final word? Is there an opportunity for appeal for this effort in Michigan?

POLANTZ: I mean my understanding is this is the highest court in Michigan.

BOLDUAN: Right.

POLANTZ: So, this would be the final word for them.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

POLANTZ: There always are opportunities to go to the Supreme Court and ask for clarity on these sorts of issues, where the states will split. But one of the things to remember here is, it's not the final word on all of the insurrectionist ban challenges to Donald Trump on the ballots. A lot of these states, including Michigan, are having to look at it, Colorado, too, they're having to look at it and the primary election right now because that's what's pending, how -- what are the state's rules for who gets to be on their primary ballots? The general election, in some of these states, is going to be a different question that arises whether Donald Trump wins or loses and gets to be on those ballots.

BOLDUAN: Wow. I mean getting even more complicated than it already is.

POLANTZ: Extremely.

BOLDUAN: And now we have an - now we have an answer out of Michigan in this one situation.

Thank you so much for jumping on, Katelyn. Appreciate it. SIDNER: All right, we're standing by now to see if President Biden

says anything to reporters as he leaves for vacation, which is going to happen any minute now. We'll bring it to you as soon as we see him coming.

He is sending his top officials at this moment to Mexico amid mounting pressure to do something about the unprecedented migrant crisis that is happening right now on the southern border.

[09:05:08]

Hours from now, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and White House Homeland Security Adviser Li Sherwood-Randall, they will all meet with officials in Mexico with hopes of trying to drive down the record levels at the border crossings. This morning, 11,000 migrants are waiting just to cross the border in Mexico, 3,800 are in Tijuana and more than 7,000 more near Texas' southern tip.

There are scenes of long lines at cross points as a new caravan of migrants with roughly 3,000 more people is trekking north. Although that number is actually down in the last few days. Frustrations are now reaching a fever pitch on the border, in Washington and, as you might imagine, on the 2024 campaign trail as the White House faces fierce criticism.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now.

What do we expect the president to say potentially as he leaves knowing that some of his cabinet members are in Mexico now trying to deal with this unprecedented crisis?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, the president has been coming under increasing pressure from border towns who are simply overwhelmed by this unprecedented surge. And his senior U.S. officials will be going down to Mexico with specific asks to have them drive down or at least help drive down the numbers at the U.S. southern border. And it's clear just how urgent this is by who is going. His highest-ranking officials, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

Now, officials tell me that these requests include the following, for example, moving migrants who are in the northern border of Mexico further south. Also controlling railways which are used by migrants to more quickly get to the U.S. southern border. And also providing incentives like visas for migrants to remain in Mexico and not continue to regularly migrate to the U.S. southern border.

And all of this, of course, an extension of that call between President Biden and the Mexican president last week where the two agreed that additional enforcement is needed. And the U.S. has often and historically looked at Mexico for help when it came to moments of crises like we're seeing now. And this is a step that the U.S. is taking to try to provide some relief to these border towns.

But, Sara, this year started with the president speaking with his Mexican counterpart in Mexico to talk about tackling migration and how to handle the record flows of people in the western hemisphere, especially after the pandemic. It is now ending with that same topic as the two countries still try to get a grasp over this situation, which is only worsened over the last few months.

SIDNER: Yes, I mean the policies of other countries as well play a huge role in this, and also the level of poverty. We will be watching this and I know you've been all over this story.

Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much for your reporting.

BOLDUAN: There are also new warnings this morning out of the Middle East that the Israel-Hamas war could spill over to become the bigger, broader war in the region. Over a ten-hour period Tuesday, the U.S. Navy intercepted a barrage of drones and missiles over the Red Sea. U.S. Central Command says that they were fired by the Iranian backed Houthi rebels out of Yemen. And one day before that, President Biden ordered strikes on another Iran-backed group in Iraq as retaliation for an attack that wounded U.S. service members at Erbil Air Base.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is tracking all of this in Washington for us and joins us now.

Natasha, this round of attacks over the Red Sea yesterday, what more are you learning about this?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Just a very chaotic day yesterday in the Red Sea with the Houthis firing roughly 17 missiles and drones that the U.S. then intercepted. A U.S. Navy destroyer as well as U.S. fighter jets intercepted these missiles and drones over the southern Red Sea.

And, you know, this comes as the Houthis have really not been deterred at all by a U.S. maritime task force that was set up essentially just last week that would - that was aimed at bolstering security in the Red Sea, bolstering the presence of U.S. and allied ships there to try to get the Houthis to back off essentially. And it has not worked clearly. But, you know, in the barrage yesterday there were 12 one-way attack drones, three anti-ship ballistic missiles and two land attack cruise missiles. Just a really, really dramatic escalation here.

And the U.S. is really bearing the brunt of it, shooting down a lot of these, you know, attacks coming from the Houthis, although there are other allied ships in the region that are there to try to reassure commercial ships that they will be secure if they transit through the southern Red Sea and up through the Suez Canal. A lot of these ships are still opting to not go through that area. And it's really having a major impact on international trade and commerce here.

But it's important to note that the Houthis are not doing this alone, according to the National Security Council, which released declassified intelligence on Friday about this.

[09:10:05]

The Iranians have actually provided the Houthis with very specific tactical intelligence that has allowed them to target these commercial vessels in the southern Red Sea on a very specific basis. And according to the National Security Council spokesperson, quote, "Iranian support throughout the Gaza crisis has enabled the Houthis to launch attacks against Israel and maritime targets, though Iran has offered deferred operational decision-making authority to the Houthis." So, the Houthis have some independence, in other words, in what they target, but they are getting very specific targeting information from the Iranians. And this is why the U.S. has made clear to Iran that they expect them to try to rein in these Iran-backed proxy groups, but so far, obviously, Iran is not listening to that, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Natasha, thank you so much.

Joining us now to talk more about just this very thing, retired Army Lieutenant General Ben Hodges.

Lieutenant General, it's good to see you.

Let's talk about the broader threat. The pace of the attacks on U.S. and allied forces and interests in the region, it really has picked up significantly. This week is a perfect example, as Natasha is laying out, from the Red Sea to the Indian Ocean, from Israel and Lebanon, now to Iraq and Syria. How close do you think this is getting to spilling over to being a broader regional war, drawing the U.S. in further?

LT. GEN. BEN HODGES (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. ARMY FORCES IN EUROPE: Well, Kate, obviously Iran is the center of gravity for all of this. I mean everything that you just described is linked to Iran and Iranian influence, weapons, intelligence and resources. So, until the United States looks -- connects the dots, if you will, of all of these different things back to Iran, and starts using all the different elements of national power that we have, along with our allies, including economic power, diplomatic power, not only military power, then we're going to continue to have to deal with this.

And, of course, Iran is Russia's most important ally. So, I don't think this is a coincidence that now we're being distracted away from support for Ukraine. All of these things are connected. And, unfortunately, as much good as the administration has done, there's now a legacy of escalation avoidance in Russia -- or in Ukraine against Russia, as well as in the Middle East. And so, you know, if we don't flatten the sites from which all these missiles are coming, we're going to keep doing this.

BOLDUAN: I want to ask you about escalation avoidance, as you put it. I had an Army major on yesterday. The way he described U.S. deterrence strategy right now in the Middle East is like playing Whack-a-Mole and not showing Iran really that the United States is serious about this. Talk to me about what you see in U.S. deterrence strategy so far. What is working? What isn't working?

HODGES: Of course, deterrence requires capability, demonstrated capability, and demonstrated will to use that capability. And we waited an awful long time before we started hitting back at forces that were attacking American bases in Iraq and Syria. And now they've been shooting -- the Houthis have been launching missiles at ships out in the Red Sea and now even the Indian Ocean. And it's been quite a while before we actually started shooting back.

Now, of course, avoiding escalation is going to be at the top of the list for any administration. The problem is, because we did so much over the last several years to avoid any kind of provocation on Russia, an escalation there, the signal to Iran, Russia's most important ally, is that we would also seek to avoid escalation here. And so now we're having to -- we're having to pay the price for everybody feeling like they could attack us whenever they wanted.

So, you know, if you step back and look at the whole region, not just the Middle East, but connect it to Russia, and think about what we have to do diplomatically, coalitions, economically, isolating Iran from everybody, as well as having the adequate military capability to really damage their capabilities, that's -- we are not going to be effective in trying to deter this.

And, of course, as you know, Kate, China is watching all of this. Does the United States have the political will, the defense industrial capacity and military capability with our allies to address all these. And I think right now they're not sure that we do.

BOLDUAN: Bottom line, no matter how complicated and complex it is, which it is, there's -- there's no questioning that, more is what I'm hearing from you, more is needed in order to stop this from spilling over, spreading, whatever word you want to use it, getting a whole lot worse for a lot more people.

Lieutenant General Ben Hodges --

HODGES: Yes, that -

BOLDUAN: Oh, go ahead.

HODGES: I was just going to say, a legacy of escalation avoidance guarantees more escalation.

BOLDUAN: Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, thank you for coming in.

SIDNER: And still ahead, Donald Trump leans into the most dire warnings about his potential second term, reposting a word cloud that includes things like "revenge," "dictatorship" and "corruption."

[09:15:11]

We'll talk about that ahead.

Plus, a man left trapped in his mangled truck over Christmas after an accident, drinking only rain water for six days to survive. You have to hear how he was finally spotted and finally rescued.

Also, protesters over the war in Gaza add an extra layer of concern to New Year's Eve celebrations here in New York City. What the mayor says they're going to do to try to beef up security this year. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Here's what voters told "The Daily Mail" They think Donald Trump is after "revenge," "dictatorship" and "power" if he wins the White House again. And the former president seems to agree with them.

[09:20:02]

Trump shared this word cloud on his social media account. It shows the top results of a poll where voters were asked to describe what both President Trump and Biden want out of their second term.

"Axios" senior contributor Margaret Talev and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Alice Stewart is joining us now.

Let's start with you, Margaret. Donald Trump is leaning into this idea of dictatorship, of power, of revenge. Is this something that is -- I mean it clearly is working for him, is it not? The polls still show he is the number one frontrunner for the Republican Party.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, "AXIOS": Good morning, Sara. Thanks for having me.

Look, it is sort of stunning to see a former president who's running for president again lean into something like this and embrace these descriptors. I would look at this in two ways. First of all, he's not, at this exact moment, running for general election. He's running to secure wins in key early states in the primaries and first caucuses. So, Iowa, New Hampshire, I don't know if it will work as well in New Hampshire, but he's still in a primary election.

But second of all, this is sort of a long tested, sort of, Donald Trump play, which is, when confronted with something critical, you don't apologize or change course or back away, you embrace it and you lean into it. So maybe that's all that this is.

There's something else interesting at work, though. There's a really interesting Harvard Caps (ph) poll that came out a couple of weeks ago that shows that more than half of Americans think that if Donald Trump were re-elected he would behave more like a dictator in the second term -- in a subsequent term, but also even more of respondents said that they believed Democrats are trying to scare people into thinking Donald Trump is going to behave like a dictator. So, I think that is part of the strategy at play here.

SIDNER: It's interesting. He himself said that he would be dictator for a day when he was asked during a town hall.

I want to -- I'm curious, Alice, when you see these words and that 1,000 likely voters all use sort of some of the same words, the big ones coming up like "dictator" and "revenge," in the end what do you think voters as a whole will do when you consider that this is something that's on the top of their minds when it comes to the general election?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Again, I agree with Margaret in terms of, he embraces these words because this is music to the ears of his base. And any other person would run from these types of words used to describe them. But this is Donald Trump's dream scenario, for people to perceive him as someone with these attributes and seeking revenge. That's what he's been trying to encourage and explain to his base for the last several years. And he's actually, obviously, happy that they recognize that. Most other leaders would prefer to have words like "leader," "empathetic," "proven leader," someone who can get things done, "accomplished," but this is not Donald Trump. And he's embracing this kind of language. He uses this really as a badge of honor. And, if nothing else, this just goes to show, if anyone thought he was going to turn the page or soften the rhetoric, they're sadly mistaken because he is doubling down on this.

And this is certainly going to help him as he makes his way through Iowa and New Hampshire and these GOP states, but that is not the kind of language and descriptors you want for someone who is heading into a general election. That's why these other candidates are leaning in on the message that they are optimistic, they are a younger generation, they will work across the aisle. Those are the kind of words that anyone who wants to do well and be electable in a general election are going to be using.

SIDNER: Alice, I want to talk to you quickly about a conversation I had with -

TALEV: Although -

SIDNER: And I'll get back to you, Margaret -- a conversation we had with New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, who has full-heartedly endorsed Nikki Haley. Here's what he told you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): I'm not anti-Trump, as much as I am pro Republican Party, right? So, you know, I supported Trump in 2016 and 2020 and we had a great working relationship. Thank you for your service. We're moving forward. For me it's about galvanizing the Republican Party, getting the country to move forward, not kind of, you know, litigating the past. That's it. And Nikki can do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Interesting to say, I'm not anti-Trump, I'm pro Republican Party, which seems a little bit like an oxymoron in that people believe that the party is Donald Trump's.

When you hear Chris Sununu saying that, is this something that can catch fire with voters do you think?

STEWART: Well, it appears to be because Nikki Haley is gaining in support, and that's a similar message that she's been communicating as she campaigns in Iowa and New Hampshire. And following up on my conversation I had just about half an hour ago with the governor, his point with Donald Trump is that, look, he's -- hasn't won. He's a proven loser. He didn't promise -- he promised to build a wall and didn't follow through on it. [09:25:02]

He added to the debt. He has certainly made things more divisive in this country and indicates over and over that Donald Trump is not where we need to go in terms of winning a general election. And he pivots back to what Nikki Haley has been able to do in terms of communicating a message that resonates with not just primary voters but general election voters. And her message and her idea resonates well in New Hampshire, the live free or die state. She looks at supporting individual rights and reducing federal government regulations. And that's a winning message, he believes, in New Hampshire. And I think a lot of Republican voters are looking to, again, not anti-Trump, not never Trumpers, but they are pro Republican Party. And that's the message they want to get out there moving forward.

SIDNER: Margaret, what is your take on this idea? I mean Sununu is really popular in New Hampshire. He's been re-elected many times. And he's really putting his weight behind Nikki Haley. But it is just one state.

TALEV: But it's a state that could matter a lot, right? So, Nikki Haley still has a deficit, the polling suggests, to overcome in New Hampshire. Chris Sununu does not have a job to do in Iowa, he does not have a job to do in South Carolina. You know, he has a job to do in New Hampshire. And what he's trying to do here is twofold. He's trying to consolidate the non-Trump vote around Nikki Haley to move, you know, past Chris Christie or anyone else who's left in the field, make it all about Haley. Number two, to address those questions that the pro Trump PAC put out recently suggesting -- using sort of misleading context to suggest that she was going to raise people's taxes and stuff. When Chris Sununu is talking about live free or die, he's talking about two things, about taxes and a more subtle message to female voters in New Hampshire about preserving their right to make their own reproductive choices, which Haley is, you know, anti- abortion, but has also suggested that she doesn't want to take away rights in states for individual women. So -

SIDNER: Yes, she's sort of threaded that needle in a way.

STEWART: And I -

SIDNER: Yes, go ahead.

STEWART: Right, and made it more of a nuanced message in terms of, let's not talk about abortion ban, but abortion limits that both sides could come to an agreement on.

TALEV: Yes.

SIDNER: Yes, which the - which the polling numbers do show that Americans sort of back that, not be banned but limits.

Margaret Talev and Alice Stewart, thank you both so much for coming on this holiday week. Appreciate you. BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, there are new concerns around security for

New Year's Eve celebrations in Times Square. What the mayor is now saying. We'll bring you that.

And trapped in his car for a week. How two fishermen saved this man's life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I looked inside and moved the white air bag, and he -- there was a body in there. And I went to touch it, and he turned around. And that just -- it almost killed me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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