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How Long Will Israel-Hamas War Last?; Interview With Fmr. Rep. Will Hurd (R-TX); Migrant Surge. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 27, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:44]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Stopping the surge. Today, top White House officials are in Mexico City seeking help to stop the flow of migrants coming to the United States, that as a caravan of thousands slowly makes its way to the Southern border. We're going to hear from those U.S. officials.

Plus, in Michigan, Donald Trump's staying on the ballot, the state Supreme Court rejecting an attempt to kick the former president off a primary ballot for his actions on January 6. We have details on those legal arguments coming up.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: And a man is trapped in his car after crashing it under a bridge. For six days, he waited to be rescued., then assumed he'd be given up for dead, until the unlikeliest things possible happened.

We're following these developing stories and many more. It's all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Good afternoon. I'm Boris Sanchez with Jessica Dean in Washington, D.C. Our colleague Brianna Keilar has the day off.

Just moments ago, some of President Biden's top officials landed in Mexico City. They're about to meet with Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador to discuss one of the most difficult issues facing the Biden administration, the near record number of migrants trying to enter the United States right now.

American border towns and major cities have been overwhelmed by those arrivals. Notably, earlier this month, the U.S. reported a seven-day average of more than 9,600 migrant encounters per day along the Southern border.

DEAN: Now, that's higher than November's average of 6,800 a day. Yesterday, there was a slight drop at 6,000 apprehensions.

At this hour, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas are expected to press Mexico for help in reducing the influx of migrants.

CNN White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez is here.

Priscilla, what specifically will the secretaries ask of the Mexican president?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, U.S. officials have prepared a series of measures that they want the Mexicans to take to try to drive down the number of border crossings at the U.S. Southern border.

Now, I'm told that those include, for example, moving migrants out, those being the migrants that are at Mexico's northern border, to decongest that area, as well as controlling railways, which migrants often use to more quickly get to the U.S. Southern border, and also providing incentives like visas so that migrants remain in the country and not travel up to the U.S. Southern border.

But, clearly, this is an urgent issue, not only because of the numbers, but also because of who the president is sending to have these talks. This was an extension of President Biden's call with Mexican president Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador last week, where the both, both of them agreed that additional enforcement was urgently needed.

So, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and Homeland Security Adviser Liz Sherwood-Randall in these talks that are going to happen in the next hour. Now, again, as you mentioned there earlier, the numbers have dropped slightly since a few days ago, with yesterday there being 6,000 encounters at the U.S. Southern border.

Officials say that this could be because of the holidays, and they're still bracing for what the next few days could bring, but these are still high numbers. They still overwhelm border towns that have grown increasingly restless and put pressure on the Biden administration to do more.

And so this meeting today is a step in that direction to try to provide some relief for these towns on the U.S. Southern border.

SANCHEZ: Priscilla Alvarez live from the White House, thank you so much.

Let's take you now live at the Southern border, the epicenter of the crisis, with CNN's Rosa Flores, who's live for us in Eagle Pass, Texas.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, Rosa, as Priscilla mentioned, that there was a slight drop in migrant arrivals reported yesterday in the United States. What are you seeing where you are in Eagle Pass?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Boris, there is a slight drop, but you have to think about like this.

If your house is flooded with five feet and the water levels drop about two or three inches, your house is still flooded. That's what we're seeing here on the U.S. Southern border, U.S. Border Patrol still overwhelmed. They are stretched thin, which creates gaps in border security.

[13:05:03]

Now, for its part, the Biden administration has surged resources to the border. And these are personnel from other agencies that are sent here to the border to help with the processing and also with the transportation of migrants. They have also surged transportation assets, these are buses, vans, to try to move migrants to areas where they can be processed very quickly.

They have also closed several ports of entry along the U.S. Southern border, including one bridge here in Eagle Pass, Texas. That's one of two bridges. Now, this is where it's impacting and having a real impact on communities and the economy, including here in Eagle Pass.

We have talked to individuals who are very frustrated because of the wait times in the bridge that is just here to my left. I just checked. The wait time is 15 hours. Now, locals tell me that normally when they cross back and forth for everyday business, to go to a restaurant or visit family, normally, it takes them, on a bad day, two to three hours. Right now, it's 15 hours.

Now, that is legal trade and travel impacted by this border surge, by the migrant crisis going on right now. Now, there's also another debate here happening in border towns. And that is what to do about this migrant crisis because individuals, Americans are being impacted.

And one business owner here in Eagle Pass tells us that it's tearing this community apart. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSIE FUENTES, BUSINESS OWNER: But I can tell that tempers are flaring. Everywhere you go, it's the topic of discussion. And I'm afraid of what's coming. So that's why I'm hoping that there is a peaceful resolution to this crisis and that we, state and federal, work together.

But if we don't get together, it's going to be bad. If you think it's bad right now, it's going to get worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, Jessie and other locals hope that after these top-level talks in Mexico City that this bridge here in Eagle Pass will open.

Boris and Jessica, one of the other things that I'm going to be looking at as a first clue if there is actual action from these talks is looking on the Mexican side. You can see it over my shoulder. That's Mexico. In other instances, we have seen more law enforcement. We have seen a change in posture.

So we're going to be looking at that to see if that happens after these top-level talks in Mexico City today -- back to you guys.

DEAN: All right, Rosa Flores for us in Eagle Pass, Texas, thanks so much for that update and that reporting, Rosa. And let's discuss this further with someone who represented border

towns, former Texas Congressman Will Hurd. He also made a run this year for the 2024 Republican nomination.

Will, thanks so much for making time and coming on with us today.

There are lawmakers on both sides of the aisle that represent border states and border communities that are ringing the alarm here and have been for some time. If you were part of the meetings today with Mexico's president, what are you saying to him?

FMR. REP. WILL HURD (R-TX): Well, this is part of the problem, what shows that the Biden administration doesn't know what they're doing.

The fact that Antony -- the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, and Alejandro Mayorkas are in Mexico City is part of the problem. The solutions to this border crisis are not in Mexico City. The solutions are in Washington, D.C. It's the policies of the Biden administration that has led to 5.8 million people being apprehended during Joe Biden's administration.

And to give some context to that number, that's 1.35 million more than the previous 10 years. And that's only a three-year period, that 5.8 number. So if I was advising the Biden administration, which I don't do, I would say go to Laredo and talk to Henry Cuellar and listen to him and change these policies.

CNN has done some great reporting today on the interviews that they're having with many of these migrants that are coming here illegally. And all of them have said, we thought it was easier to get into the country. That's because these policies and the Biden administration is treating everybody as an asylum seeker.

So those are the -- that's what the Biden administration needs to address, not trying to have these -- look, Mexico can do more. There's no question about that. This is a problem to Mexico. And I guarantee you that, when this meeting happens, President Lopez Obrador is going to be telling Blinken and Mayorkas, what the heck are you all doing to stop this sucking sound that the United States is causing in other parts of Latin and South America?

SANCHEZ: Congressman, we will dig into what the U.S. can do to fix the issues.

But digging into the visit by the secretary of state that's unfolding right now, Priscilla had outlined some of the steps that the U.S. administration is seeking from Mexico, including moving migrants from the Southern border further south to decongest that area, to better control railways, which is how migrants are getting to the border to begin with, and also from Mexico to offer visas for migrants from other countries to stay there as opposed to moving to the United States.

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How does the U.S. get Mexico to agree to take those steps? HURD: Look, I think the only way you agree that if you say, hey, this

is what we're going to be doing on our side, is to look at this joint problem.

I think the U.S. also needs to be working with the Mexican government on dismantling the human smuggling operations that are moving the majority of these people. Those smuggling operations are impacting the Mexican economy just as much as it is the American economy.

And so I think there's a package there of sharing intelligence and information to some of the groups that we can work with in Mexico in order to dismantle those human smugglers that are moving all these people and creating this humanitarian chaos.

Those would be two things that I think should be on the table in these negotiations with the Mexican government.

DEAN: And, Will, I hear you on what you're saying about the policies, your criticism of the Biden administration policies. There is an effort, a bipartisan effort in the Senate right now, trying to work through some immigration reform.

We will see where that ends up going. Republicans want that tied to aid to other countries. But the fact of the matter remains, immigration is an issue that Congress has had the option and ability to go after and fix and reform for decades now and just simply cannot get it done. Is it too far gone now?

And why is this such a vexing question for America's lawmaker?

HURD: Sure. Great questions. I will answer that first question -- the last question first.

The reason this is vexing is because Republicans and Democrats would rather use this issue as a political bludgeon to knock each other over the head, rather than to solve the problem. And, ultimately, in this negotiation right now, the Democrats are the ones that have an upper hand in the Senate.

But they're being frauds as well, because they're not willing to streamline legal immigration. The fact that they have historically been against that, a lot of that is pressure from the various big unions to not streamline legal immigration, not to streamline the H-2A program, to fix H-1B issues.

Like, all of those things would do a lot in order to make legal immigration, which we need in so many of our industries, a reality. And what the Biden administration and Democrats have to read is the reason Joe Biden is losing by double points to Nikki Haley, why Joe Biden is losing in a head-to-head matchup with Donald Trump is because that general election voters see this issue as something that needs to be addressed and that these problems and this crisis is squarely created by President Biden.

And, again, CNN reporting prior to Christmas did a lot of the crosstabs on these voters in a general election of why they would vote for a Republican over Joe Biden. And so this is something that, if the Democrats need to be looking at is, this is going to have impact on the 2024 election.

DEAN: Yes, it's been an issue for a very, very long time for both sides.

All right, Congressman Will Hurd, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

HURD: Always a pleasure.

DEAN: Still ahead this afternoon: Israel's military chief saying the war in Gaza will last -- quote -- "many more months," this after an hours-long sit down between U.S. officials and a close confidant of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. We're going to tell you what came out of that meeting.

SANCHEZ: Plus, "The New York Times" now suing Microsoft and OpenAI over copyright infringement. Ahead, why "The Times" says those companies are responsible for billions of dollars in damages.

And CNN investigating a cryptocurrency scam called pig butchering. It's apparently cheating Americans out of billions of dollars using enslaved people.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a living hell day in and day out.

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SANCHEZ: A stunning report next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[13:18:50]

SANCHEZ: No signs of slowing down.

AS the Biden White House says Israel has assured the U.S. that it would at some point transition to lower-intensity operations in Gaza, Israel's top military chief is now saying the war against Hamas will continue for many more months.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. HERZI HALEVI, CHIEF OF STAFF, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES (through translator): There are no magic solutions. There are no shortcuts in dismantling a terrorist organization, only determined and persistent fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Elliott Gotkine is in Tel Aviv. Elliott, the IDF there saying it's ramping up operations in Southern

and Central Gaza now that it's close to dismantling Hamas in the north. What more are you learning?

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, we have been hearing from the IDF and the defense minister, Yoav Gallant, talking about the job almost being done in the north for some time, for a couple of weeks now.

That still doesn't seem to have been happening, but they are focused more, it seems, on Khan Yunis in the south. But in terms of this war being complex and having many more months to come, that will dash the hopes of some that thought that at some point this was going to end sooner, rather than later.

However, we know that it's a complex situation. And Herzi Halevi, the chief of the general staff, they're also saying as part of that briefing that: We are increasing the pressure in various ways, constantly learning and adapting to their enemy.

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But in terms of the communications we get from the IDF on a daily basis, it seems to be war as usual, namely, striking from air, land and sea, targeting militants, targeting Hamas infrastructure such as tunnels and weapon storage facilities, and talking about the tunnels that they're discovering that are going under or through civilian infrastructure, such as hospitals, mosques and schools.

So, that is continuing. And I suppose it's continuing for the simple reason that Israel's objectives have not yet been met, namely, the destruction of Hamas, so that it can never again repeat the October the 7th massacre that it has promised to do time and time again, that it will no longer have a role to play in terms of governing the Gaza Strip, and, of course, to get those Israeli hostages, more than 100 of them, still alive, still in the Gaza Strip being held by Hamas and other militant groups.

But, of course, the cost that we are seeing there not just in soldiers' lives, but, of course, more worryingly for the international community is the sheer scale of Palestinian casualties, almost 21,000 now, according to the Hamas-run Health Ministry. Those figures, of course, don't distinguish between combatants and civilians -- Boris, Jessica.

SANCHEZ: Elliott, on the question of aid, the IDF has now called on the international community to -- quote -- "find additional solutions" for distributing aid in Gaza.

Tell us more about that.

GOTKINE: Yes, this is one of the contentious points here, which is that Israel's come under much criticism for either obstructing or preventing more aid from going towards Gaza's two million or so people, and the situation there being described as at nightmare levels by the head of the World Health Organization on a recent visit. Now, Israel has opened the Kerem Shalom crossing between Israel and

the Gaza Strip to let aid go directly from Israel to Gaza, something it said it wouldn't do initially. It did that after pressure from the United States. But there is still not anywhere near enough aid going into the Gaza Strip.

Between December the 20th and the 26th, something like 844 trucks went through, not nearly enough. The U.N. has appointed a new envoy to coordinate this to make sure more aid goes in and that the stuff that shouldn't go in doesn't go in -- Boris, Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Elliott Gotkine for us there in Tel Aviv, thanks so much for that update.

And with us now to discuss more is retired U.S. Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt.

General, great to have you with us.

We were just listening to Elliott Gotkine's reporting there. We know that the U.S. has publicly and privately urged Netanyahu and his government to turn to a lower-intensity phase of this war, to really focus on precision, and not just -- and to be concerned, more concerned and more focused on the civilian deaths.

And yet we keep hearing from the IDF and Netanyahu that this will continue, that this is going to a higher-intensity phase. At what point is he just not going to listen to the U.S., or does he have to listen to the U.S.?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET.), FORMER U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR PLANS AND STRATEGY: Well, I think we need to be quite humble in this regard.

Taking a look at our win-loss record over the last 20 years, I'm not sure we would be -- I'd be taking advice from the U.S. military about how to fight a war like this. In fact, the last war we truly won was 80 years ago. Very similar tactics were used by us that are now being used by the Israelis.

So there's a little bit of 21st century conceit that we might want to consider here and be -- understand the perspective of the Israelis a little bit better than we have up to this point.

SANCHEZ: General, when it comes to Israel calling on the international community to do more to distribute aid in Gaza, it also announced simultaneously that it's going to stop automatically granting visas to U.N. workers.

How do they balance the effort to preserve civilian life in Gaza and get in aid with their security considerations?

KIMMITT: Yes, I think there are less security considerations than there are the fact that Hamas seems to be hijacking a significant amount of this aid. That seems to be the security concerns that they have. If there was

some way for the U.N. to set up distribution points themselves, rather than let that aid be controlled by Hamas, I think we'd see a lot more aid coming in. We have got one of our best diplomats, David Satterfield, running the humanitarian assistance representing the United States.

And so I think he -- we could not have a better person there, but they're running into these problems that, yes, aid comes in, but, at the same time, aid is being taken by Hamas primarily for their military operations.

DEAN: And I want to broaden out just a little bit, because Israel's defense minister has warned that this is a multifront war, that they're coming under attack from these different regions. You have got Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, West Bank, Iraq, Yemen, Iran.

Obviously, we have seen the U.S., just with the strikes in Iraq, that that -- they're trying to kind of quell any escalation. How much in danger are we of seeing this continue to escalate beyond just where that key conflict is right now in Gaza?

[13:25:03]

KIMMITT: Well, that's a question you should be asking the Iranian government, not in the U.S. government.

It is clear that the United States sent a significant amount of firepower into the region to try to contain this fight. But we are continuing to allow Iran poke from seven different directions against this. And the United States needs to take a stand.

I believe that we ought to reemphasize the Carter doctrine from 1980 that says nobody will interfere in the Persian Gulf area. And that's exactly what Iran is doing, oh, by the way, at the same time, when it's just been revealed that they have tripled their uranium production, weapons-grade uranium production.

So Iran is taking advantage of the situation and will continue to do so unless we take a strong stand.

SANCHEZ: Any concern over a potential escalation that could lead to war? Because I think, from listening to U.S. officials, one of their concerns is that a too-harsh response to the Houthis in the Red Sea, for example, could then lead to Iran getting involved more drastically.

And then that sort of creates conditions for a much more lethal atmosphere in the region.

KIMMITT: Well, let's be clear. The U.S. policy is contain, deter, dissuade the expansion of this war. That hasn't worked yet.

So I think it's time to take a determined stand and send a very clear message to Iran that, if you continue this activity, we will respond appropriately. That's one thing we know about Iran. You draw a tough line with them, they will stop and they will back off.

But this notion of somehow hoping that Americans won't get killed, hoping that international traffic won't stop, hoping that ships won't be sunk, hope is not a method.

SANCHEZ: Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, always appreciate the perspective. Thanks for being with us.

DEAN: Good to see you.

KIMMITT: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come on NEWS CENTRAL: a midair terror. We will get to that in a moment.

But still ahead: Michigan's Supreme Court rejecting an effort to remove Donald Trump from that state's primary ballot. What that means for challenges in other states and the 2024 race.

We also have a crazy story about turbulence to tell you in just a few minutes.

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