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Haley Responds in New Hampshire After Controversial Civil War Comments; Colorado GOP Appeals Trump Ban from State Ballot to Supreme Court; University Begins Demolishing House Where Four Students Were Murdered. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 28, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Back on Colorado's ballot, but for how long? And will another state soon give him the boot? The new Supreme Court twist in Donald Trump's 2024 battles.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Demolishing this scene of four brutal murders right now. This daily reminder of the horrific stabbings near college campuses being knocked down despite the fact that some of the victims' families are asking the university to let it stand.

BERMAN: So haters hate this. 2023, it was the year of Swift, a recap of Taylor's reign. I am Swifty John Berman with Sara Sidner. Kate Baldwin is off. She's probably grateful she's off, so she didn't hear that. This is CNN News Central.

SIDNER: New this morning, Republican Presidential Candidate Nikki Haley doing cleanup after facing criticism over her comments about what caused the Civil War. Haley made headlines after a New Hampshire voter called her out for leaving slavery out of her response to his question about the Civil War. This was at a town hall last night.

Haley told him the civil war was, quote, about how government was going to run. She appeared on a New Hampshire radio show just this morning, actually, while we were on the air to clarify what she meant. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course, the Civil War was about slavery. We know that. That's the easy part of it. What I was saying was what does it mean to us today. What it means to us today is about freedom. That's what that was all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: CNN's Jessica Dean here to talk through this with us. This was one of those moments that didn't have to happen. It was a simple answer, and yet now it's cleanup time.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And yet here we are, and the timing here is important because everyone's starting to pay attention, right? We are just less than three weeks away from the Iowa caucuses, New Hampshire follows one week after, so timing also very critical here.

Just for everyone watching at home, let's go back to last night and kind of set the stage. So, she's at a town hall in New Hampshire, a state where she's been surging, where she's trying to become not just the alternative to Donald Trump, but can she beat him there. And a voter asked her how the civil war started. So, here's how she answered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the cause of the United States Civil War?

HALEY: Well, don't come with an easy question or anything. I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run, the freedoms and what people could and couldn't do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Okay. So, that's how she set it up last night. Immediately, Sara, there was -- you know, we picked it up, the media picked it up.

SIDNER: She was struggling with it.

DEAN: She was trying to, and they went back and forth, and he then said, I can't believe you didn't say anything about slavery, and she said, what do you want me to say about slavery? And then she moved on.

So, then this morning, very quickly, as John Berman pointed out last hour, first thing on the radio this morning, she was clarifying, and you played a little, but here's some more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: Our goal is to make sure, no, we never go back to the stain of slavery, but what's the lesson in all of that, that we need to make sure that every person has freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to do and be anything they want to be without anyone or government getting in the way. That was the goal of what that was at.

[10:05:01]

Yes, I know it was about slavery. I'm from the south. Of course, you know it's about slavery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And, of course, she is the former governor of South Carolina. While she was governor, that horrific shooting happened at the church by the white supremacist. She had the Confederate flag taken off the Capitol ground. So, there is some layered history here on that topic.

This person in the audience, the voter, said that they weren't political, that they wanted to see how her answer compared now to when she was running for governor. Today, Nikki Haley on that same radio show saying that this person that asked her the question was a Democratic plant.

The bottom line here, Sara, is this is what she's talking about today when she wants to be talking about other things on the campaign trail for Donald Trump, who still, let us remind everyone in the polling, double digits ahead of everybody, he's just letting this all play out. Ron DeSantis hoping people take a second look at him, Chris Christie in New Hampshire as well. So, that's kind of the political side of all of this.

SIDNER: I mean, even if the person was a Democratic plant, the question is the question, it's kind of an easy answer. It's a rough one that she's having to deal with now. And, of course, everyone is talking about it, instead of her being doing well. She has been doing well.

DEAN: Right. And they're talking about it. And, again, she's going to spend the whole day in New Hampshire. And I expect we will see her perhaps on camera talking about this as well. But for her, you just want to move forward. We'll see if that's the case.

SIDNER: All right. Jessica Dean, thank you so much.

DEAN: You're welcome.

BERMAN: So, this morning, it looks like Donald Trump will be on the Colorado presidential primary ballot after all. Overnight, the state's Republican Party asked the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn a ruling that disqualified Trump from being on the ballot. This stays the Colorado Supreme Court decision. It effectively means Trump will be on the ballot, because on January 5th, election officials will officially add candidate names to the Colorado primary list. Again, the key date there, January 5th. So, it looks like his name will be on the ballot after all.

In Maine, Donald Trump is demanding the secretary of state there recuse herself from a similar question. She gets to decide Trump's fate there.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz following all of this. And the big news and the shift happened overnight. It was expected, but the Colorado Republican Party appealing the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, Katelyn.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, John. And that's all they needed to do to put on hold that Colorado Supreme Court decision removing Trump from the ballot. But that decision is still on the books in Colorado, and it is a really big one. It goes into a lot of depth about Donald Trump being an insurrectionist, according to the Colorado Supreme Court, the highest court in that state, and also their decision that they have the ability to remove him from the primary ballot as the court, as the state. And so all of those questions are going to be very likely before the Supreme Court quite soon.

The Colorado GOP is asking for the Supreme Court to weigh in on this idea that anyone in a position of power, like a court or a secretary of state, could be removing a candidate from the ballot. They write in their petition that was filed with the Supreme Court.

The Colorado Supreme Court has removed the leading Republican candidate from the primary and general ballots, fundamentally changing the course of American democracy. And its significance is not merely political but legal. Rejecting a long history of precedent, a state Supreme Court has now concluded that individual litigants, state courts, and secretaries of state in all 50 states plus the District of Columbia, have authority to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. So, we're really in uncharted territory here where states are looking at the insurrectionist clause in the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, doing different things with it. And now, the Supreme Court is being asked to set the law of the land. John?

BERMAN: There are a lot of questions out there, some of which could be answered if the U.S. Supreme Court decides to weigh in. Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much.

SIDNER: All right. Let's discuss all of this now with Ben Clements. He is on the legal team working to remove Donald Trump from the Oregon ballot.

I first want to talk to you about these two decisions that have happened. Colorado, the Supreme Court there said he does not deserve to be on the ballot because they saw him as an insurrectionist. Michigan, though, refused to do that, and sort of, though, left the door open for another legal challenge, it seems. How does that case potentially affect the case that you're putting through?

BEN CLEMENTS, CHAIRMAN AND SENIOR LEGAL ADVISER, FREE SPEECH FOR PEOPLE: Well, the Michigan case is limited to Michigan. As you said, they've left the door open. The sole holding of the Michigan courts that the Supreme Court there upheld is that as a matter of a technicality under Michigan law that we believe they got wrong both on the state and federal law, a challenge could not be made to whether a presidential candidate is qualified before the primary, leaving it open for a challenge after the primary before the general. So, that decision has no impact on, for example, the Colorado decision that has held that Donald Trump may not appear on the primary ballot in Colorado, and it has no impact on the issues that are before the Supreme Court in that petition that the Republican Party has filed to review that Colorado decision.

[10:10:17]

SIDNER: Okay. So, Donald Trump, of course, has a lot to say about these lawsuits. And one of the things he says over and over and over again is it's always is all based on politics, they're just trying to take me out of the race, they're trying to keep me from power, this is what the people want. Why do you bring these cases? Why is it important for you to bring these cases to a court of law?

CLEMENTS: This is not based on politics. This is based on law, and more specifically, the supreme law of our country, the Constitution of the United States, and more specifically still, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.

Section 3 is quite, quite clear. What it says is that if you take the oath of office to defend the Constitution of the United States and then you violate that oath by engaging in insurrection against the Constitution, just as Donald Trump did in inciting the January 6th attack on the Capitol, you may not serve or run for effectively any office, especially the presidency. It doesn't say especially the presidency, but it stands to reason that if they were concerned about someone who engaged in insurrection having power in our democracy, the last place you would want such a person is in the presidency of the United States.

SIDNER: There is -- when you look at the 14th Amendment, it doesn't say if you are convicted, for example. It's not very specific about insurrection. But the law sort of works in a different way, right? You can see it on paper, but then when it goes through the courts, there's precedent and all of that. How do you see this playing out? Donald Trump and his team are absolutely sure that they will be on every ballot once the Supreme Court gets a hold of this, which it likely will weigh in.

CLEMENTS: Right. And that's the irony of the question you asked about whether this is politics. Those are actually political arguments, that he needs to be convicted before he can be excluded, that he's so popular and so powerful and so rich that no court can hold him accountable and keep him from serving on the ballot. But the legal questions are very different. And the precedent is clear that no conviction is needed.

Free Speech for People, the organization that I work with reestablished that precedent in a challenge to Marjorie Taylor Greene, in which the courts held once again, as they had held in the past, no conviction is needed. The only issue is, did the person take the oath of office, and did they thereafter engage in insurrection? And those are quite clear. Everyone saw Donald Trump take the oath of office on T.V., and everyone saw Donald Trump incite and engage in the insurrection of January 6th, also on T.V.

SIDNER: And still not gone to trial on any of those things, but you're saying there is a legal argument that doesn't include conviction. This will be really interesting to watch. Thank you for coming on and explaining all that.

CLEMENTS: Thank you for having me.

SIDNER: All right. Oh, your turn, Johnny.

BERMAN: All right. Happening now, crews are demolishing the house in Idaho. You're looking at pictures here of what used to be the house where four students were stabbed to death. Obviously, this house will now not be used in a physical way in the murder trial.

The victims' families have been pleading, pleading for an injunction for the house to remain standing. Obviously, that did not happen.

Drivers may have more money in their pockets in the New Year. A new report says gas prices will drop even more in 2024, more encouraging signs on the economy.

And The New York Times suing Microsoft and OpenAI over copyright infringement and some other issues. Well, The Times says the companies are responsible perhaps for billions of dollars in damages.

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BERMAN: All right. You were looking at live pictures right now of what was the house where four University of Idaho students were murdered. That house has been torn down, or in the process of being torn down, despite the objections of victims' families. They wanted all of this held off until after the suspect's trial. It didn't happen, and now all those objections too late.

CNN's Veronica Miracle is outside the house in Idaho. Talk to us about what's happening and what it all means.

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the demolition started early and it is moving very quickly. We're going to pan off so you can see for yourself here. An excavator has already taken out the entire front of the house. The back house -- back half of the house rather remains standing and debris trucks have just been lined up taking debris out. There's about a half a dozen trucks right behind our camera waiting. They've been very systematic and university officials expect this to be finished by the end of the day.

Officials have been wanting this house torn down since they received it. There's been security concerns about people breaking in. And it's also a daily reminder of the horrific crimes that happened here.

But you touched on those two families that had actually come out outspoken yesterday. They were very concerned about this being torn down and they had a list of about eight points essentially wanting to make the trial as easy as possible for the jury because, of course, they're hoping for a conviction in this case.

They brought up points like what about the jury looking at vantage points of the roommates inside the house or outside of the house, if evidence is presented around the perimeter or entry and exit points. Now, a jury wouldn't be able to see that.

But the university has been in touch with the prosecutor's office every step of the way. And according to the prosecutor's office, Idaho Code actually would not allow the jury to enter to have entered the home because it is so different than when the crime originally happened.

You have to remember there have been cleanup crews, hazmat crews. They also had all of the belongings removed so that the family members could take them home. So, the inside of the house is very altered.

But take a listen to what the University of Idaho public information officer had to say.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI WALKER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO: So, I think there was a point there where we thought with the October trial that things would work out, that the house could remain. And when the trial got put off indefinitely, the conversations definitely changed.

And while we certainly understand that there are a lot of emotions around that house and for the families especially, we also listened to our community and talked with prosecutors and the defense and believe that now is a really good time to go ahead and take that house down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: Obviously, a very complicated and emotional decision here. This house, once it is leveled, is just going to be an empty lot. And the university is creating a memorial garden on campus sometime next year. John?

BERMAN: All right. Veronica Miracle on the scene there, keep us posted, Veronica.

SIDNER: All right. We're following some devastating breaking news. We've just learned that Judith Weinstein was killed on October 7th. She was an American-Israeli hostage and her body was taken by Hamas, according to her kibbutz in Southern Israel.

It was believed that the seven year old was injured in the October massacre and taken hostage then by Hamas.

Her husband, Gadi Haggai was also taken hostage. We learned last week that he had been killed. Hamas is still holding his body.

A grim milestone now ahead for Paul Whelan, today marks five years since he was unlawfully detained in Russia and he's still jailed. The former Marine was arrested in Moscow in December of 2018 and imprisoned on charges of espionage, charges he vehemently denies.

In 2020 of June, he was sentenced to 16 years in prison, a sentence he's been serving at a remote prison camp in Mordovia. CNN spoke to Paul Whelan just a few days ago.

We're joined now by CNN State Department Reporter Jennifer Hansler. Jennifer, what are we hearing about Whelan's condition now and the fact that he has been in detention now for five years?

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, good morning, Sara. Paul Whelan sounded really deflated and exasperated at his condition, at his plight, at the fact that he is still in this Russian detention five years later. He described it as surreal. He said that the whole situation, the fact that he is still there has been completely demoralizing. He's concerned he will never see his 80-year- old parents again. He has already lost some of his beloved pets. He has lost friends. And his family says this has also taken a big toll on them as well.

And now he is aware that there are efforts underway to try to secure his release. This is something Secretary of State Antony Blinken referenced in his statement yesterday. He said they are working every day to try to bring him home. They will not rest until they do so. However, he is frustrated at the fact that these efforts have not yet yielded any progress. Take a listen to what he told me in the end of November, Sara.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am wondering what they're going to do next. If there's no diplomatic solution, what comes next? What are they prepared to do to honor that promise to get me home? If they're just throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping that something sticks and they can come up with a quick agreement, that's not a very good policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANSLER: So, this is very frustrating for him to still be sitting in that jail cell in Mordovia now, five years later. Sara?

Yes, it's got to be an awful, awful thing for him and his family. And we should also mention that The Wall Street Journal reporter, Evan Gershkovich, still jailed, still hoping that the United States come through for him as well. Jennifer Hansler, thank you so much for your reporting on all of this.

BERMAN: All right. We're getting our latest glimpse into the state of the jobs market as we enter the New Year. Where things stand and what it means for where we might be going, next.

And some of President Biden's top officials, some top U.S. administration officials, may have reached an agreement with Mexico on at least some ways to deal with the migrant crisis.

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SIDNER: This morning, new data shows that claims for unemployment benefits rose higher than expected last week but they still remain historically low. There were 218,000 initial claims for unemployment insurance. That's about 9,000 more than expected.

But Americans getting some good news at the gas pumps. GasBuddy projections shared exclusively with CNN suggest Americans will spend $32 billion less next year than they did this year and $79 billion less than they did in 2022.

For more on this, let's bring in CNN Reporter Matt Egan. This is encouraging. When you hear gas prices are going down, as someone who lived in California where those prices were outrageous, when you hear they're going down, a lot of us don't talk about it. We just like enjoy the fact that they're down. But when they're up, we always notice, right? MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: We do notice that, Sara, this is absolutely good news. GasBuddy is projecting that the yearly average in 2024 will be $3.38 a gallon nationally.

Now, that is not cheap per se, but that is down $0.13 from this year, down even more from the average of nearly $4 a gallon in 2022, when all of us were talking about gas prices all the time, so, certainly moving in the right direction.

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