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Trump Fighting Efforts To Boot Him From Ballots In Multiple States; ME Secy. Of State: U.S. Supreme Court Should Rule On Ballot Cases; New Round Of Strikes Underway In Ukraine Hours After Russia Launches Biggest Air Attack Since Start Of War. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired December 29, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:48]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Booted from the ballot now in two states, Maine following Colorado's lead in disqualifying Donald Trump for running and we're waiting to hear from Oregon who could make a decision over the next few days.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, Russia unleashes a massive aerial attack on Ukraine sparing no part of the country. Hundreds of missiles and drones launched and it's still underway. Dozens are dead and injured. New details just coming in.

BERMAN: Roe v. Wade but sweeps over dozens of people just stunning pictures, dangerous surf in new warnings of danger this morning.

Kate and Sara getting an early start to the New Year. I'm John Berman with Danny Freeman. This is CNN News Central.

BERMAN: All right happening now, we are waiting to see if Oregon becomes the third state to ban Donald Trump from the primary ballot because of the 14th amendment's ban on insurrectionists. Overnight, Maine became the second state and its Secretary of State Shenna Bellows made the decision unilaterally. And shortly after she told me she expects this to reach the Supreme Court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHENNA BELLOWS (D), MAINE SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States Supreme Court is the ultimate interpreter. Ideally, they will rule and they haven't yet but certainly should they rule we will abide by their ruling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: CNN's Katelyn Polantz watching all of this very closely, and certainly the Supreme Court will have a chance to rule if it decides to.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: If they want to, John, this is going to be a question over the next couple of weeks of is each state going to decide for themselves in the ways that each state has set up to decide whether Donald Trump can be on that ballot. In Colorado, the Supreme Court there, the highest court, they took Trump off the ballot, or said that he should be off the ballot pending review by the Supreme Court.

In Maine Secretary of State Shenna Bellows, she says it's her decision she decided to remove him from the ballot. He is ineligible. And there are going to be appeals there in the state court system. If that just continues on as it's continuing on. If the Supreme Court doesn't get involved, then we may have a primary cycle where each state is deciding on their own what to do.

Several states of course, have decided Trump is eligible for their primary ballots and is putting him on those ballots, places like Michigan, places like California we just heard about this week where Trump will be on the ballot despite some challenges at various levels. But this is still a big question before the Supreme Court because the Colorado Republican Party is saying once Colorado moved this way to take Trump off the ballot then other states will follow. We did just see Maine.

And so there is this question of can the Supreme Court bring clarity across the land? Will they make a decision? Do these sorts of entities at the state level even have the power to take someone off the ballot because of the insurrection clause of the Constitution?

BERMAN: They could bring clarity. The question is will they choose to and how much clarity might they choose to bring. Katelyn Polantz all over this story, thank you so much.

FREEMAN: And this morning, a new exclusive look at the dramatic length Trump's inner circle took leading up to January 6th, a series of recordings and e-mails is now exposing the haphazard plan to get fake electors to D.C. before the 2020 election was certified and this was all after fake collector certificates got stuck in the mail. CNN's Marshall Cohen has the exclusive details. Marshall, tell us what are we learning from these new recordings?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Hey, Danny, good morning. We've known bits and pieces of this story before. But we are now getting the full picture and it comes from Ken Chesebro, the pro Trump attorney who in many ways was the architect of the fake electors plot. CNN has obtained recordings of his recent interview with Michigan investigators and hundreds of e-mails that he provided to them.

They reveal the last minute scramble on the eve of January 6th to get those fake certificates to Washington, D.C. Take a listen to Chesebro describing what happened when Trump campaign officials realized that the ballots from Michigan and Wisconsin, two key states, they were stuck in the mail.

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[11:05:11]

KENNETH CHESEBRO, PRO-TRUMP ATTORNEY: The general counsel of the Trump campaign is freaked out that Roman reported that the Michigan votes are still in the sorting facility in Michigan, which doesn't look like they're going to get to Pence in time. So the general counsel of the campaign was alarmed, and was chartering, they didn't have to charter a jet, but they did commercial.

This is like, yes, so this is a high-level decision to get the Michigan and Wisconsin votes there, too. And they had to enlist, you know, a U.S. senator to try to expedite it, to get it to Pence in time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So remember, they needed to get these ballots to the floor of the House of Representatives because they wanted Mike Pence to throw out Biden's real electors and replace them with Trump's fake electors. At the end of the day, the campaign did not need to charter a jet though they thought about it. Staffers booked last minute tickets on commercial flights on January 5th. Once they got to D.C., there was a series of handoffs and couriers that included a meet up at the Trump Hotel, and even some help from Senator Ron Johnson. The ballots eventually reached the capitol in time. But Pence's team said they didn't want him. Then he refused to go along with the plan.

FREEMAN: It's amazing we're still learning more very specific and interesting details about the lead up to this plot. Marshall, but I'm curious, how does this all factor into Jack Smith's criminal case against Trump?

COHEN: Well, this entire episode is vaguely referenced in Special Counsel Jack Smith's indictment. Chesebro was an unindicted co- conspirator in that case, by the way. And sources tell CNN that some of the people who are involved in this last minute scramble, including the staffers who were on those flights, they've spoken to Smith's team, but it's unclear how many of these new details will factor into Trump's trial, which is set for March.

FREEMAN: Marshall Cohen, great reporting. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

BERMAN: All right, with us now is former Manhattan prosecutor Jeremy Saland. Counselor, I want to go back to this issue of where Donald Trump will be allowed to be on primary ballots. Maine just became the second state in the country to push them off the primary ballot because of the 14th Amendment, which bans insurrectionists from holding office. In fact, let me read you part of Section 3 of the 14th amendment. No person shall hold any office who shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. Now this could reach the Supreme Court. On that court sit many self-proclaimed textualists. What does that mean, counselor?

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: So what these judges are going to look to, and we expect them to look to based on their history and how some of them describe themselves as going to look at the actual text and try to infer and understand what the intent was, when it was drafted and when it was enacted. So here, we know, we're talking about post American Civil War, which the union was torn apart, and nobody, the Congress did not want to see anything like that happen again, any insurrectionist, anyone, whether they were a congressman or senator, that term we learned officeholder, the person who holds office could be in a position to do that again. So they're going to look at why it came to be, and what was that plan and intent at the time that was drafted.

BERMAN: So if you are a textualist, and Section 3 says that no one who engaged in insurrection can hold office, that's what the text says. Does that mean that Donald Trump can't be on the ballot?

SALAND: If the Supreme Court and the judges that are there follow through with some of the their general thoughts and how we've seen them rule in the past, I would expect that anyone with a basic level of intellectual integrity would say that if a congress person or a senator who does the same things could not hold office that is applicable to any office holder, which is the language in the text, and that person would be someone who was and would want to be president like we have with former President Donald Trump. So I think intellectual integrity says yes.

BERMAN: The issue then becomes, did Donald Trump engage in insurrection? How much do you think the Supreme Court, the justices, the nine justices, actually want who addressed that issue to decide whether what Donald Trump did is or was insurrection or providing aid to those who committed insurrection?

SALAND: Nobody wants to. This should bring pleasure to nobody on either side, meaning a blue or red. And certainly our judges don't want to do this as well. But they have to do this. They have to take the step. And you know what, they're going to have to decide what that due process element is. This decision by Congress or does each state make this decision? And if it's going to be state by state, do we have to come forth with a rule of law that each of the states has to follow. And we should have no misgivings here?

We are here because of Donald Trump's statements, this sort of ravenous desire and reckless statements to hold on to power whether or not you support him or not, we are here because of those statements that led to January 6th.

[11:10:11]

BERMAN: You mentioned whether or not it's Congress or the states that have the power, Section 5 of the 14th Amendment says Congress, the Congress shall have the power to enforce by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. So Section 5 says the Congress, Norman Wise (ph) who I spoke to last hour says it doesn't say only the Congress. How do you think that debate might go?

SALAND: I think that's fair and accurate. It's not only in the Congress. And not only that, there's also further language that the impediment that prevents someone like Donald Trump potentially to serving who has been deemed insurrectionists, all in that impediment can be removed by Congress. But as a Colorado State Supreme Court pointed out, that's not the question here. The question here is whether and what is that due process, and the Colorado State Supreme Court, the highest court said we can make that determination. You know, that's why the Supreme Court has to have a rule that all the states can follow. Otherwise, it's going to be mass chaos in terms of who's on a ballot in one state and who's not on another.

BERMAN: Which it is right now. Right now is chaos, uncharted territory.

SALAND: True, very true.

BERMAN: We will see how deeply the Supreme Court chooses to get involved here. Jeremy Saland, great to see you. Happy New Year.

SALAND: You as well.

FREEMAN: We're following breaking news in Ukraine this morning, where Russia has launched its largest air attack since the beginning of the invasion. One of the targets you see right here, a maternity hospital, where pregnant women and newborns barely escaped alive. Plus, Nikki Haley wrapping up a three day swing in New Hampshire this morning and trying to leave the backlash over her Civil War comments behind. Can she keep her momentum with just a couple of weeks to the Iowa caucuses?

And San Antonio police are asking for the public's help to identify, the two people you see in this surveillance video. We'll tell you how they may be connected to the deaths of a pregnant teen and her boyfriend.

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[11:16:26]

BERMAN: All right, you're looking at new pictures just in to CNN. This comes from Ukraine, which is just suffered the largest Russian aerosol since the Russian invasion began nearly two years ago. You can see an individual there being cold from the rubble. Again, this is Kharkiv. We are told at least 26 people have been killed across Ukraine with well over 100 injured. Those numbers will almost certainly increase. We're getting new reports of deaths from different parts of the country. Again, that video coming from Kharkiv here in the east. You can see the scope of this Russian attack because Kharkiv was in Sumy, Dnipro, Kyiv, Zaporizhzhia, Odesa, Lviv, other locations as well, but it spans this attack did the entire country. I want to bring in CNN military analyst retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Cedric, what are we seeing here from the Russians and why?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, good morning, John. What we're seeing is really a Russian offensive via air. So this Russian air offensive is designed to go after the critical infrastructure of Ukraine. There was some military targets radar installations in particular, that the Russians didn't target. But for the most part, they went after civilian infrastructure targets. This is a replay of what we saw last year where what the desire was by the Russians to, in essence, take out the civilian infrastructure of Ukraine take out all the medical facilities, all the power stations, things of that nature, and make life a living hell for people in Ukraine during this winter. That is exactly what we're seeing here. In some ways this is revenge probably for the attack on the Russian ship in Crimea that just happened a few days ago. It's also a statement by Putin that he wants to bring Ukraine to basically to its knees, and force it to negotiate at this point in time.

BERMAN: You mentioned the fact that this is an attack on civilian infrastructure right here. In Dnipro, we have some video that shows the aftermath of attacks on what we're told as a maternity ward of a hospital, also a shopping mall. Again, these are civilian structures that have been hit across the country. And the president of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy says that Russia has thrown everything at them, the full range of weaponry from drones to missiles, long range bombers. Talk to us about how that complicates things for the Ukrainian, Cedric.

LEIGHTON: So one of the key things, John, is that what the Russians are doing is they're trying to saturate or oversaturate the Ukrainian air defenses. They know that Ukrainian supplies in terms of munitions or defense munitions, in particular, are dwindling. And as a result, they're trying to overwhelm the defenses right now, so that they gain the upper hand militarily. When they do that, they are going to, in essence, go after areas that have weakened defenses from like the Patriot missile system, ATACMS similar systems. And that is the basic idea behind. They're trying to, in essence, take out all of these critical areas so that they can have an easier time of it militarily.

And perhaps a side bonus for them would be to move the front lines a little bit in Russia's favor. I don't think that happened as a result of this, because the Ukrainians have withstood similar attacks before but that is basically the Russian goal at this point.

BERMAN: We do have some video from the capital of Kyiv. And you can see the Ukrainian air defenses knocking out some of the missiles. Volodymyr Zelenskyy said the vast majority of Russian missiles and attacks were taken from the sky. But clearly some did get through here. What capacity does Ukraine have to repel these attacks now, and maybe a month from now, if they don't get any more Western aid?

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LEIGHTON: If they don't get any more Western aid, John, it's going to be a real problem for them. The kinds of spectacular successes that we've seen with the Ukrainian air defenses have been really, really incredible. And we saw it today or overnight, it was a real concerted effort by the Ukrainian air defenses to protect the country. And in spite of that, you know, you still had about 20 or so percent of the missiles come through and hit their intended targets.

But a few months from now or a month from now, it's going to be much worse for the Ukrainians because there's a finite supply of Patriot missiles that could be part of this. There's also a finite supply of other air defense systems. And that is going to complicate things unless the Ukrainians continue to get Western aid.

BERMAN: Very quickly, Cedric. Polish military officials say that they do believe, and Poland would be right here on the map, they do believe that a Russian missile flew over their territory. How dangerous does that become?

LEIGHTON: Becomes very dangerous, John, because it could invoke the specter of Article 5 being invoked in the NATO Alliance, which would mean that there would be a military response from NATO with other nations support against the Russians. That's a potential. It doesn't mean it's going to happen. But it's certainly a potential escalation of the conflict.

BERMAN: All right. This is something that definitely bears watching over the next few days. Colonel Cedric Leighton, always great having you. Thanks. Happy New Year.

LEIGHTON: You too, John. Happy New Year to you, too.

FREEMAN: All right. Coming up next, Nikki Haley's still trying to dig out of the hole she dug by failing to mention slavery as the cause of the Civil War. She's also now weighing in on Trump's legal challenges, why she says pardoning him would be the best thing for the country.

And SpaceX successfully launched a secretive military spacecraft. So what's it doing well in orbit? We'll have the answer.

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[11:26:36]

BERMAN: This morning Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley wrapping up her swing through the state of New Hampshire. She will head back to Iowa now with just over two weeks until the caucuses there. Haley's Republican rivals are seizing on the opportunity to criticize her over this statement she made some see it as a gaffe at a New Hampshire town hall where she avoided saying slavery was the cause of the civil war. CNN's Eva McKend with Haley on the campaign trail. What she's saying today, Eva?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, she's not saying much about this. She's moving on. She had her New Hampshire event here in Concord, her last one of this big swing that she had here in the Granite State. And she's already on her way to Iowa. And, you know, while her rivals are weighing in heavily on this, you're not really hearing it from her supporters at these events. They're not asking about this by and large.

They say that her cleanup of this it makes sense. One man even told me he thought that she was given that question or she was asked that question to trip her up. Another woman telling me that she's way more focused on other policy matters. I still know her Republican rival seizing on this as a way to illustrate what they argue as an evasiveness when she answers questions. Take a listen to what Chris Christie has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This has been her whole campaign. She does not want to offend anyone. She won't tell the truth about Donald Trump, even though she knows that he was the cause of January 6th, she won't say it. Even though she knows that he regularly lies, she wants say it. She was asked by a voter again in New Hampshire. Would she categorically rule out being Donald Trump's vice president? And she won't answer the question. These are simple questions for -- to a smart woman. And when she doesn't answer them, you have to believe she's being a slippery, slick politician.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So we'll have to see if this hurts her here in New Hampshire. It's far too soon to tell but certainly her rivals still seizing on this. She has a lot of momentum here though, John, here in New Hampshire. She was joined by Governor Sununu on many of those campaign stops. He's a very energetic campaigner, and a lot of people seem very excited to see them together. So that certainly -- that certainly helps her here. John?

BERMAN: Yes. Again, it'll be interesting to see what follows her as she leaves New Hampshire from this campaign swing. Eva McKend, thanks so much for being there. Appreciate it.

FREEMAN: All right. For more now, I'm joined by CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief for the Boston Globe, Jackie Kucinich, and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Alice Stewart. All right, let's pick up kind of where John left off right there. Jackie, I want to start with you. We heard the statement or gaffe, we heard the cleanup. Do you think what happened in New Hampshire will ultimately stay in New Hampshire?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So I think, Eva, was right. I think we kind of have to wait and see how this reverberates. Though, you know, "The New York Times" had a really smart piece today talking about the Democrats and Independents that are taking a look at Nikki Haley, even in New Hampshire where they have an open primary. So Democrats could potentially register to vote in the Republican primary and support Nikki Haley. It's those voters that I think we're going to have to watch the most closely because she had had -- she been tried to have this crossover appeal.

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