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Boebert to Switch Congressional Districts for 2024 Election; Chinese Spy Balloon Used U.S. Internet Provider to Communicate; Wisconsin University Chancellor Fired After Posting Porn Videos with Wife. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 29, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: In a move to avoid what could have been a tough re-election fight next year, Colorado Congresswoman Lauren Boebert is switching congressional districts for the 2024 election.

Her decision underscores the narrow House Republican majority and how difficult it is for them to hold on to it. Boebert now represents Colorado's 3rd District in the western part of the state, but she is headed east to run in the 4th, where Republican Congressman Ken Buck is retiring. Now, if Boebert stayed in the 3rd, she would have faced off for a second time against our next guest, Democrat Adam Frisch, who narrowly lost to Boebert in the 2022 midterm elections. Frisch joins us now.

Thank you so much for joining us, Adam. We should point out that the primaries have not yet happened, so we would potentially see a different Democrat going up against whoever runs in that district.

Nevertheless, you already went up against Congresswoman Boebert. You lost by a mere 500-ish votes. She's accusing Hollywood elites and progressive money groups, her words, of buying the 3rd District. What's your response to that?

ADAM FRISCH (D), CANDIDATE FOR CONGRESS IN COLORADO: Boris, great to see you and happy New Year to you and all the viewers out there. You know, I don't know what to really say about that stuff. She's making up excuses. She must have done a poll -- she did a poll about a month ago focused on general election conversations. She must have been down by 7 or 8 points or something like that to me.

And that's why she decided to literally pack up her bags and try to carpetbag away to the Eastern Slope or Eastern Plains. I'll be shocked even if she makes it into the top half of the primary contestants over there. The whole Republican crowd over there has no interest in seeing her over there, just like they didn't have any care in southern and western Colorado to see her here.

We had two goals two years ago when I launched on this journey. One was to see Lauren Boebert defeated in Congress. And obviously we've checked that box and we're taking a victory lap. [15:35:00]

The second thing that we're very, very focused on, and I would say more importantly, is to try to break a monopoly that's affecting rural America. And you know, 90 percent of these rural counties in the country are controlled by one political party. And I think monopolies are bad in politics and they're bad in business. And that's why I've been in this race.

And that's why I've been done -- that's why I've been traveling 45,000 miles and counting so far.

SANCHEZ: It does seem, Adam, like there is this division within the Colorado Republican Party, MAGA folks and more establishment traditional type conservatives. We spoke to the chair of the Colorado Republican Party yesterday and he said that he did not think that Boebert moving was a good move.

I'm wondering, for you, if you go up against a Republican that doesn't have the kind of baggage that Boebert carries, don't you think that puts you at a disadvantage? You'd be running a different race.

FRISCH: Well, no, I mean, I think we're going to run the same race. Authentic, sincere, no one's worked harder. I'm home three days a month and it's been like that for a year and a half. Our district's bigger than Pennsylvania. I'm always on the road. We've done 45,000 miles and counting.

I have no interest in getting into any conversations about team red or team blue, especially where the Colorado Republican Party is. That'll be up to the voters out in the Eastern Plains to figure out who they want to try to represent them in a very heavily leaning district.

But I remain focused on Team CD3, not team red, not team blue, not the presidential race, not the county commissioner races. I'm laser- focused on breaking this monopoly that's affected rural America and we're just not getting a very good version of either political party out here in the Western Slope.

I have the same views no matter who I'm running against. I'm trying to -- I've been trying to convince people why people should be voting for us. In a district that's only 22 percent registered Democrat, we got 49.9 percent of the vote last time. Obviously, I've been able to build what I call a tri-partisan coalition, and we will continue to do that.

And all those pundits last cycle that thought we were going to lose by 40,000 votes and we lost by fewer than 550, all I can say is I hope they save some of their humble pie for this cycle. And regardless if we run against a -- quote/unquote, a traditional Republican or a --

SANCHEZ: Sure.

FRISCH: -- far-extreme Republican in views or personality, it doesn't change how hard I'm going to work, how sincere I am, and how focused I am on Colorado water, Colorado jobs, and Colorado energy. And so, you know, there are three Republicans running in the primary,

from what I can tell, and there'll probably be another five or six more. But I'm focused on Team CD3, not what -- who I'm going to be running against --

SANCHEZ: Got it.

FRISCH: -- because that's not going to matter for me, how hard I work.

SANCHEZ: Got it. Adam Frisch, we have to leave the conversation there. Very much appreciate your time.

FRISCH: Thank you very much. Take care and have a good day.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still ahead, we have some new details on that Chinese surveillance balloon. Remember this? It navigated across the United States earlier this year. We're now learning how the balloon was able to send back data to China. Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We have the details in just moments.

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SANCHEZ: Just into the newsroom, we're learning new details about that Chinese spy balloon that flew over the United States earlier this year.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's right. A U.S. official now says the balloon used an American internet service provider to communicate its location back to China, which is a pretty stunning revelation here.

We have CNN's Katie Bo Lillis joining us in the studio with more on this story. That is something to learn, Katie Bo.

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Brianna, so U.S. officials have been able to determine that as this Chinese spy balloon was transiting across the United States, it was able to use an American internet service provider to send these sort of short bursts of data back to China, information that was primarily concerned with the balloon's location and with its navigation.

So, this wasn't sort of a sustained connection so much as it was sort of the balloon periodically checking in and being like, hi, here's where I am, here's where I'm going. What we do know from our sourcing is that this is not believed by U.S. intelligence officials to have been the intelligence that the balloon was collecting as it transited across the United States. So as the balloon was going across the U.S., it was picking up images and other intelligence.

That was being stored on the balloon itself with the expectation, presumably, that the Chinese government would be able to download and view it later, of course, because the United States shot it down. The United States has been able to study that itself. But what's interesting, I think, about this, guys, is that the sort of revelation about this use of an American service provider is it gives us kind of an image into or gives kind of a picture into how the United States was able to track this balloon in real time.

It also gives us a sense of why the Biden administration might have been willing to wait until the balloon crossed all the way over the country to shoot it down. Officials told us at the time that they were collecting information from the balloon about its capabilities as it transited. This, now we understand, is part of how they were able to do that.

KEILAR: That is fascinating. Katie Bo Lillis, thank you for that reporting. We appreciate it.

LILLIS: Thanks so much.

KEILAR: A university chancellor in Wisconsin was removed from his post after he posted pornographic films online for years, as we understand it, that he made with his wife. That chancellor joining CNN NEWS CENTRAL next.

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SANCHEZ: So, we want to give you a moment, because this next story deals with very mature themes. If you have any kids in the room, you may want to have them leave now, or potentially change the channel. The story surrounds the controversy surrounding the chancellor at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, who has been fired. The school has not publicly explained the reason that they removed the 63-year-old from his leadership role -- from his leadership role, I should say, but Joe Gow has told several news outlets that he believes he's being punished for pornographic videos that he and his wife made together and published on the internet.

KEILAR: He also suggested that their free speech rights are being violated. Gow telling "The New York Times" that the couple had made such videos for years and had recently decided to release them more widely on porn websites. But the couple said they never mentioned the university or their jobs.

Joe Gow is joining us now. Sir, thank you so much for being with us. Can you tell us how do you think the university found out about this and why do you think it's not OK that they fired you over it?

JOE GOW, FORMER UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-LA CROSSE CHANCELLOR: Well, thank you for having me on and telling our story. We really appreciate that, my wife and I. And, you know, I should say that there are more than just videos. We have two books that we've written about our experiences.

So, this is not, you know, kind of a sensationalistic project. It is something that we're really serious about. And we have had those books out for a number of years. We wrote them under different names, pen names, because we didn't want to draw any attention to the university or to my role there.

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And then recently we decided to put some of the videos onto some sites that really, you'd have to go looking for them for adult material to find them. And I guess somebody saw that and recognized me and told the Board of Regents.

And then they asked through their attorneys and HR people, are those your videos? And I said, yes, that's the truth. And here's why we do what we do and we're not making any money from it. And we're actually spending a lot of money for these projects.

And I thought that would be kind of the end of it. And then the Regents had a meeting and they informed me after the meeting that I was no longer Chancellor and I was given no due process. They never said what policy I violated. And also, there was no hearing where I could actually do as I'm doing with you now, talk about the issues.

And I think really at the end of the day, it's a question of our material is covered by the First Amendment. It's nothing illegal and we're not inciting anybody to violence or anything like that.

So, I think it says something about how the Board of Regents says they want freedom of expression and free speech, but at the end of the day, they're not going to let me do that.

SANCHEZ: Sir, on the question of free speech, though, there was a 2004 decision by the Supreme Court that stipulated that an officer's First Amendment rights, a public officer's First Amendment rights stopped after issues of public concern. In other words, you as a public employee have the right to speak on issues that are of concerns to the public, to folks on your campus, to folks elsewhere, but a pornographic video according to the Supreme Court does not fall into that category.

It's also possible that you agree to a code of conduct, right, when you decided to become Chancellor.

GOW: Well, that case, I'm familiar with that and I think it's important to note that was 2004. Now, that's three years before this iPhone came out, and we've come a long, long way since then. So, I don't know how a court would rule on this in the contemporary world.

And the other thing, when I was appointed Chancellor, I did sign an employment agreement, but it didn't say anything about a code of conduct or morality or anything like that. It did set a good example, and I think that what I'm doing with my wife is setting a good example regarding freedom of expression and free speech.

KEILAR: And look, no one's trying to take down your videos, right? You're entitled to have those up as you do. You're exercising your freedom of speech there. The Internet certainly was in full effect in 2004. Whether or not they're iPhones or not, what does that have to do with anything? GOW: Well, I would make the case that adult consensual sexuality is a

public issue. Pornography is certainly a public issue. There are billions of people that watch it every day on the Internet. So, the work that we're doing comments on that.

SANCHEZ: You did, though, in the books that you published and some of the videos that you published, use a pseudonym. And in the books, correct me if I'm mistaken, you write about concern that if your actual name and public position came to light, there would be consequences.

Further, in 2018, you paid $5,000 for an adult film star to come to campus and to speak to students. There was a controversy over that. You actually wound up reimbursing the university out of your own pocket because of that controversy, partly because it was student fees that you used. So, you knew that this was potentially going to be an issue for you. It shouldn't have come as a surprise that the university decided to part ways.

GOW: Yes, and I'm glad you brought that up because the 2018 experience, I was ultimately coerced into paying that money and to making something of an apology, and I found that very unpleasant. And so, I did not want to do that again.

And so, this time around, I've said, you know, I'm not going to cave in to pressure from the regents and going to do the right thing.

KEILAR: Are you arguing that sort of what you're doing here when it comes to pornography, that it's a public issue, like it's a public service? Is that sort of what you're saying, that this is an issue of public concern, it's a public service?

GOW: Well, I think that we are making videos that are not violent, they're not exploitative, they're a married couple. It's something you don't see every day in adult videos.

KEILAR: Well, porn stars, just to be clear, right? I mean, it's not just --

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GOW: Well, I was going to say there, yes, we do have videos with other performers, and we do a cooking show where we talk to them about what it's like to be in the industry, and I think it really shows a side of the performers that you don't see anywhere else. So, you know, I would encourage people to just, if you're interested in this, to take a look.

KEILAR: Let me stop -- no, I've taken a look. I've looked at your books, and they're pretty graphic, I will say. I don't know that they exactly -- and look, I mean, if that's your cup of tea, I get it, but in terms of it being, you know, a public concern or the way you are describing it, I'm not so sure that it fits that description.

GOW: Well, I would say that we would not be having this conversation if it wasn't a public concern. So, I think this is something that is a big part of human life, and something that there are a lot of taboos around, and people are reluctant to talk about it. And I think the best part of this whole episode is that we are getting people to talk a little more freely.

SANCHEZ: Joe, very quickly, what are your future plans now that you're no longer Chancellor?

GOW: Well, I was set to be a faculty member here, and I had announced at the beginning of the year, before all this controversy, that this is going to be my last year as Chancellor, and so I'm excited about getting back into the classroom and teaching. I taught for 18 years before I was an administrator. But you know, the university system is saying things like, well, we're going to investigate his tenure, and I really don't know what that means. That's pretty ominous. And I think we'll have to watch that very closely.

KEILAR: Joe, we will keep watching. Obviously, a lot of attention on your case here. We really appreciate you being with us today. Thank you so much.

GOW: Oh, thank you. It was a good discussion. I appreciate it.

KEILAR: And "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts after a quick break.

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